# Do you need to supplement Armour with Synthroid for T4?



## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

As we all know, NDT surpresses TSH and most people have a low FT4 and high FT3 (the opposite of bad FT3 conversion).

Due to the nature of it not being a human ratio of t4/t3 released (which is much more t4)

In this situation where you have say 85% FT3 (good) and 20% FT4 in a normal blood range, should you then be trying to raise FT4?


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Not a good idea to add T-4 hormone based on feedback I have seen on this board. If the high FT-3 does not agree with you then switch to Levothyroxine and Cytomel.

My friend takes a small amount of Levothyroxine with her Armour and swears by it but she does often talk about needing dose adjustments. For me- I use Unithroid and Cytomel to keep my FT's balanced.


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

Yeah the problem Is I cant get cytomel in my country funded or even without importing it. Its crazy.

Does it matter to the brain if it doesnt have a lot of FT4 to convert? Im sure I read that some functions need to do their own conversion to ft3 and not be fed straight up ft3


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## VFRgrl (Feb 15, 2015)

BatMan-

You don't need a lot of T4- the rare occasions where you directly need T4 vs T3 you should have enough. Being a poor converter isn't the same as not seeing your T4 increase on a T4 medication (like you indicated). you may be a poor converter- but it also points to poor absorption of your T4 medications. Do you have GERD, Acid reflux, or gut/intestinal issues? Do you take your T4 on a completely empty stomach? away from other supplements and coffee? Have you tried Tirosint? There are some indications that Tirosint can help with people who are poor absorbers. If Tirosint isn't available- you MAY want to try taking your levothyroxine with Vitamin C (just Vit C) it has been shown to help with absorption.

Lori


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

VFRgrl I want to give you a thank you.

Is that your doggie, is it a french bull dog, racing? Very cool.

Yes Im a CRAP converter if Im allowed to say. When I was on thyroxine only I got to 90% T4 and 10% T3 of range and a TSH that was surprsessed by T4. I can only Imagine how much RT3 I had, but they dont test that in the labs here.

Yes I have a massive problem with Gerd, Im on GAPS diet now and adding lglutamine, bio-kult probiiotics as well as my staple beef knuckle bone broth. Also Im overweight by 50lb. Its sooooooooo hard to exercise but Im forcing myself to wake at 6am and go walking just as the sun is rising so I actually go to sleep at night. I was taking overscript amounts of Z sleep tablets and benzos just to get to sleep. My anxiety is rampant so the doctor put me on effexor, which helped the depression just slightly but not anxiety and it gives me more reflux.

15 years ago I was put on a PPI, which lowered my Acid, I trace all of this back to that. Instead of the doctor saying hey, dont drink so much and eat so much bacon and exercise. He put me on Losec and I was never told to come off it. Now I switched to ranitadine, and right now im on nothing just using Gaviscon to try and keep food down. IMO I have a very very very lasy LES sphincter, possibly due to being overweight, but also largely because I use to be a binge drinker every Friday night (40oz bourbon, 12 full strength beers in a night). The next day I would fill my stomach with water so I could power chuck the water back out (about 3 litres) to try and get relief from nausea. That went on for 15 years as well. Probably didnt help the LES.

What Im scared of most with NDT is that some people say it increases anti bodies as the body attacks the organic hormones from the pig.

Im reading "Why do I still have Thyroid Problems" I also have Iz Wentz book " Root Cause". The first is more technical which I need the second more practical.

I realise the liver makes 60% FT3, 3% straight from thyroid, I think 20% in the gut and the rest in general tissue/brain. Something like that, dont quote me haha.

So its obvious to me my general health is what was causing the poor conversion of synthetics. Liver, duh binge drinker, even though I gave it up ages ago still take opiates for back pain. Gut, duh! Binge drinker who only ever ate junk food for 15 years. I feel so stupid, but hind site is a wonderful thing once you are passed your early fun years (ok mine went on a bit long lol).

Wow what an epic post. I didnt know I had that in me. I hope I get some replies and thoughts.


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## VFRgrl (Feb 15, 2015)

HI BatMan! Yes, my profile picture is my French Bulldog Sprocket doing dog agility competitions. He is a fabulous little dog! I have 2 others that I do other sports with as well (obedience, K9 Nose Work). I love my little dogs.

O.k to address your 2 separate but issues I will give you MY OPINION (not medical advice) and my research. Discuss with your doctor!!!

: #1. Poor absorption: This is a great fairly recent journal paper addressing absorption issues: http://www.europeanreview.org/article/6874 a liquid levothyroxine medication was absorbed better (like Tirosint but you may have other options) what country are you in? GERD will definitely affect your absorption. I would try to take your T4 meds 1st thing in the morning on an empty stomach and try to wait 2 hours for food- and >4 hours for all your other medications. I would add VITAMIN C WITH your T4 meds. (ONLY Vit C, nothing else). Here is the study that shows this may be beneficial for those with stomach acidity issues (a known factor in decreasing levothyroxine absorption): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24601693

#2: Poor conversion: as you so correctly stated: conversion issues start in the liver. You probably have lots of liver damage. I would make sure you are drinking a TON of water, and look into dandelion root supplements. There is scientific published literature on the benefit of dandelion root on the liver: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=dandelion+root+liver

I drink a dandelion root tea that has helped with my liver issues that arose from methimazole and being hyperthyroid. I also add milk thistle to my tea. Milk thistle is known to help with liver issues and again there are scientific literature that support this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=milk+thistle+liver

What country are you in?

Hope some of this helps,

Lori


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

Thanks so much for that.

can medications affect the liver? ill list some

The GAPS diet seems to help with IBS but not so much reflux. I think I have a lazy LES. Also wondering if Im all of a sudden lactose intolerant as Milky black tea hurts going down, well most things do.

Bone broth helps, I think its the gelatin. My mouth never has that nice smooth moucous feeling it did when I was young, my tongue feels dry even when its not and raspy.

Sometimes my voice gets raspy and I cant talk, but that comes and goes.

Thank you for helping so much.


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