# Armour problems & patronizing doc? Where to go from here?



## Enigma (Jun 13, 2011)

I am very discouraged. I switched to a new doc in August in a clinic that is supposedly the tops. She also was willing to switch me to Armour.

I have not felt any better on Armour - in fact, possibly worse. My aches and pains have gone away, but that is about it. Emotions have been all over the place, have become extremely sensitive to foods that never used to bother me, and have developed this horrible burning/gnawing sensation in my upper gut area (above the belly button area). It wakes me up every night, sometimes every hour. Sometimes food will make it worse, some times it will help. Maalox and Prilosec seem to be helping somewhat.

I have also developed a horrible skin rash, complete with scaling skin, right in the middle of my forehead. My tongue is also swelling like crazy, it also burns, and my lips burn.

I have mentioned the burning stomach pain to my doc (but referred to it as hunger since I wasn't sure what I was feeling) and she dismissed it (over the phone). I also told her about the tongue swelling and lip burning and she told me I had leaky gut. I also mentioned that I had been to a rheumatologist 5 years ago because of joint pain and swelling, and he asked me specifically if I had patches of skin like I had this past month (thinking I had arthritis). At the time I didn't. But I mentioned this to her as a concern of mine and her response was, "We do things differently and don't go about things like referring to a rheumatologist. That's just not how we do it. If you want to check off the SED rate on your lab slip go ahead." This shocked me- I know they are "different" and do more things than a typical PCP, but this attitude is just as BAD as a PCP!! If you don't pay attention to these things, or even talk to me and not be patronizing, how will you catch everything?!? And she didn't even address the tongue problem!! I don't think any types of docs should be exclusive of other types- but they are just as elitist as traditional docs!!

I don't feel very comfortable going to talk with her if this is the response I am going to get when I ask questions or want to talk about things. My PCP family doc is much more open to talking about things than she is.

So I don't know what to do at this point... I really think something is happening with the Armour and I don't feel safe taking it anymore. I also don't want to go back to this clinic because they are too commercial and inflexible so they won't even talk about traditional medicine let alone consider it. Or even consider possible life-threatening signs of an allergy.

My last bloodwork was on 90mg Armour
TSH 0.042 (0.400.4.00)
FT3 4.1 (2.8-5.3)
FT4 1.1 (0.7-1.9)

and they have lowered me to 75mg. The gnawing abdominal pain is still happening and my tongue is still swelling and lips still burning. Usually right after I take Armour or up to 3 or 4 hours after.

I just don't know what to do? My PCP is not willing to work with Armour, or anything other than synthetic T4 (I just had the conversation with him today). He wants me to continue Prilosec, possibly do an endoscopy, and has tested my C-Reactive Protein, CBC, and is doing an ANA to check for lupus.

I can't function anymore. I am missing so much work and feel horrible. I am lost.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Enigma said:


> I am very discouraged. I switched to a new doc in August in a clinic that is supposedly the tops. She also was willing to switch me to Armour.
> 
> I have not felt any better on Armour - in fact, possibly worse. My aches and pains have gone away, but that is about it. Emotions have been all over the place, have become extremely sensitive to foods that never used to bother me, and have developed this horrible burning/gnawing sensation in my upper gut area (above the belly button area). It wakes me up every night, sometimes every hour. Sometimes food will make it worse, some times it will help. Maalox and Prilosec seem to be helping somewhat.
> 
> ...


Are you on brand name Armour® by Forest Pharmaceuticals?

According to your FREE T3, you appear undermedicated. Most of us like the FREE T3 at about 75% of the range given by your lab. You are right smack dab in the middle of that range (4.0) so this could be a problem.

She is making decision based on your TSH, I fear.

Free T3 and Free T4 are the only accurate measurement of the actual active thyroid hormone levels in the body. This is the hormone that is actually free and exerting effect on the cells. These are the thyroid hormones that count.
http://www.drlam.com/articles/hypothyroidism.asp?page=3

Swollen tongue (macroglossia) can develop for hypothyroid.

Go here:
http://www.thyroidboards.com/showthread.php?t=986

Also, if I were you, I would get the gallbladder looked at. Many w/thyroid have GB problems.

How long have you been on the Armour?

Lips could be from peripheral neuropathy.


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## Enigma (Jun 13, 2011)

Yes- brand name Armour. I've called and left a message to see if she would write a script for Naturthroid or Westhroid since I have read that they may contain less allergens?

I think it might be good to try one of those before ruling out the natural DT route completely?


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## bigfoot (May 13, 2011)

Ugh. Thinking positive thoughts and sending them your way! Sorry to hear the Armour has been giving your trouble. And the doc, too, for that matter. Like you mentioned, if you're uncomfortable bringing things up, how are you going to get optimum treatment from the doctor?

:hugs:


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## BuffyFan (May 13, 2011)

Hope you feel better soon!


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## BuffyFan (May 13, 2011)

I"d also get Vitamin B12 levels checked if you haven't can't believe your doc would just dismiss your symptoms, especially tongue swelling..sounds like an allergic reaction to something!!!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Enigma said:


> Yes- brand name Armour. I've called and left a message to see if she would write a script for Naturthroid or Westhroid since I have read that they may contain less allergens?
> 
> I think it might be good to try one of those before ruling out the natural DT route completely?


Buffyfan is right about the B-12.

Desiccated thyroid side effects
Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction: hives; difficult breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat. 
Less serious side effects may include temporary hair loss (especially in children).

This is not a complete list of side effects and others may occur. Call your doctor for medical advice about side effects. You may report side effects to FDA at 1-800-FDA-1088.

If you do have an allergy, not sure the others would not make you have an allergic reaction as they all are porcine dessicated thyroid. Do you eat pork; do you have a known allergy to it.

Do you think it is the filler?

You don't think it is because you are undermedicated? You know your body better than anybody.

Have you added anything else new in the past few weeks?

Don't like to see you so ill like this; not good.


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## BuffyFan (May 13, 2011)

are you getting the stomach pain after taking armour? if the meds you are taking are helping, I wonder if you are having severe indigestion? I've gotten the pain that you described when having indigestion.

are you taking the armour on an empty stomach?


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## Enigma (Jun 13, 2011)

Andros said:


> Buffyfan is right about the B-12.
> 
> Desiccated thyroid side effects
> Get emergency medical help if you have any of these signs of an allergic reaction: hives; difficult breathing; swelling of your face, lips, tongue, or throat.
> ...


Pork is the ONLY thing I've been able to eat since starting Armour. Every other type of meat gives me horrendous intestinal problems. I don't have an allergy to it that I know of. If anything, it seems that I have an allergy to other meats. I had blood drawn for allergies last week so have not received the results yet.



Andros said:


> Do you think it is the filler?
> 
> You don't think it is because you are undermedicated? You know your body better than anybody.


I am not sure if it is the filler. I seem to have weird reactions to things (other types of meds such as anti-histamines make me WIRED beyond belief, Xanax makes me wired, and I used to be allergic to peppermint). So I wouldn't be surprised.

I am not sure if it is undermedicated. This is all so new to me that I don't even know what it is like to feel normal (medicated or not medicated). I don't have a choice though, since the doc is lowering my meds, definitely not upping them.



Andros said:


> Have you added anything else new in the past few weeks?


No. I tried the doc's elimination diet which made me sick with Agave nectar, but stopped that a couple of weeks ago. i have only been able to eat rice and bacon, pretty much, everything else makes me so sick. And this has only been over the last month.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Enigma said:


> Pork is the ONLY thing I've been able to eat since starting Armour. Every other type of meat gives me horrendous intestinal problems. I don't have an allergy to it that I know of. If anything, it seems that I have an allergy to other meats. I had blood drawn for allergies last week so have not received the results yet.
> 
> I am not sure if it is the filler. I seem to have weird reactions to things (other types of meds such as anti-histamines make me WIRED beyond belief, Xanax makes me wired, and I used to be allergic to peppermint). So I wouldn't be surprised.
> 
> ...


Gall bladder, gall bladder; please get it checked.

I hear you loud and clear; after having not been diagnosed for 20 years, I would not have a clue as to what normal might be for me. I kid you not.

Well then; it does not appear to be a porcine allergy. Maybe the filler.

Those of us with TD have to very very careful with OTC drugs and Rx. Most of us can have violent reactions to a myriad of things at a moments notice.

Anti-histamines are one culprit as are various cough medicines and nose sprays.

What other tests have you had other than for thyroid? Have you been tested for Lupus? Would there be any earthly reason for you to think you might have that?


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## Enigma (Jun 13, 2011)

Andros said:


> Gall bladder, gall bladder; please get it checked.
> 
> I hear you loud and clear; after having not been diagnosed for 20 years, I would not have a clue as to what normal might be for me. I kid you not.
> 
> ...


Hmmm, haven't thought of gallbladder - will mention that if things don't get better.

Yes, my reactions have become crazy since starting thyroid meds. Not sure why I react to so many meds, even supplements.

I had Rheumatoid arthritis test (negative) several years ago, epstein-barr, that is it.

I've had a history of horribly swollen painful joints with nodules as a teen and early 20s (about 6 years ago), bad skin rashes (scaly and the butterfly face rash), extreme mouth ulcers (up to about an inch big), dry mouth and eyes, upper respiratory problems (croup every year as a child and always sick with a cold as an adult), mono and mono-like infections.... and I could go on...


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## northernlite (Oct 28, 2010)

I will play the devil's advocate here, although some people go directly to a combo medication or synthetic T3, most people start with T4. T3 medications are necessary for those who do not convert T4 well enough to produce enough their own T3. You don't know if you are one of those people.

You were only diagnosed in May. In July your TSH was still way high and you needed an increase in T4. But by August you had switched to Armour.

I personally would switch back to T4 and run that out completely before complicating everything with T3 in the mix. I was diagnosed last November and still am in the process of doing that myself. It is not a quick process. Find a doctor who will run FT3's or pay at a lab on your own if that is financially possible for you. Get your TSH down and see if your FT4 and FT3 come up to a good point for you with T4 alone. If your FT3 does not come up or you cannot get to the point that you feel well on T4 alone then you are someone who probably needs a combo medication or to add synthetic T3 to your medication.

Regardless, it sounds to me like Armour does not agree with you and I would look for an alternative immediately.

This wasn't intended to sound harsh so I hope it does not come across that way. I am 10 months into this and am frustrated with my doctor and the process but I am trying to keep it as simple as possible for my body and myself. I am a strong believer that if my body will convert T4 to T3, that is the best T3 for me to have. Not sure yet if I am going to get there on T4 alone but I am going to give it another 6 months or so and look for a better doctor!


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## Enigma (Jun 13, 2011)

Northern,

No, it didn't sound harsh. I *know* it, I am just not patient, and I know that is a fault of mine. I was feeling horrible on T4, and worse when they upped my dose, and I know that could be from not being properly dosed. My aches and pains have gone away completely on Armour, which was making me hopeful. But this experience hasn't been any better than the T4. At this point, I may just go back to my PCP for treatment and stick it out until the TSH is "normal" and see how it goes from there. And work on him about the T3 side of things in the meantime in case I do definitely need it. He likes when I bring outline notes and and ask questions- and also researches stuff and likes when I bring research in, so there is still hope that he would listen to me more. Plus, he is old enough that he used to ONLY use armour in the past, before synthetic came out.

In the meantime, I have an appointment with a naturopath who does both armour and synthetic (I know he does Armour for sure, anyway). He was also the one, through a friend who sees him, that saved me from how I felt while using Agave nectar (recommended by my OB/GYN office/Armour people). He's also a professor and focuses a lot on allergies and food allergies, so regardless of thyroid stuff, I think it would be good to check it out. He's also familiar with Armour allergies (which my OB/GYN people most definitely aren't). I also work with an acupuncturist/herbalist who is also a practicing (regular) pharmacist and she has said she would work on adrenals and related issues... she also gives good advice about when/how to take meds and I trust her a lot.

All in all, I have a very good group of people helping me, and even my PCP is good, in the worst case scenario.

I'm just not very patient  which I know is not a good combo with thyroid issues! But the whole tongue thing and not acknowledging that as a possible problem is very worrisome to me. Plus, not allowing for traditional approaches to medicine.

BTW- Have any of you women out there taken the 3 month birth control? (3 months taking it, one week off, cycle every 3 months)? I started that back in January and it seems things got worse from there (skin wise, fatigue, etc.). My PCP suggested trying just the regular cycle again and see if that helps. I had only taken it because of very foggy brain in and around period time, but that might be better now that thyroid is being addressed.


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## Enigma (Jun 13, 2011)

Dr.'s office called today and want me to try a time released compounded T4/T3 (I am assuming still dessicated). I'd like to try Naturthroid rather than going the $$ route, and since a lot of people seem to do better on that... oh well, I guess we'll see.

Anyone do a compounded med? Natural or synthetic?


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## highlandvalley (Apr 11, 2010)

You poor thing!

I can totally relate to you!

I have just been back to my doctors who has insisted I use dessicated thyroid because I am hypothyroid. BUT after checking my blood tests he has changed his mind. My cortisol is low, ferritin low and my liver is not as good as it should be. He basically said I am hyper sensitive to hormones (I could have told him that) lol. Anyway because I just cannot tolerate dessicated thyroid ( he said some people just cannot handle it) he has now put me on T3 only. Then watch and see then later t4 then we may try dessicated thryoid later on when my body has become stronger eg adrenals etc.

Im not saying to do the same, I am saying that we are all different. If you cannot tolerate Armour please stop. Dont do what I did and suffer for months...

cheers
Corinne


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## Enigma (Jun 13, 2011)

highland- what were your problems on Armour? I'm curious.

Thanks!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Enigma said:


> Hmmm, haven't thought of gallbladder - will mention that if things don't get better.
> 
> Yes, my reactions have become crazy since starting thyroid meds. Not sure why I react to so many meds, even supplements.
> 
> ...


Boy; those symptoms sure do sound like Lupus! Ever been tested for it?

Anti-DNA, C3, C4

You can look up here: http://www.labtestsonline.org/

Have you ever had Costachronditis or Pluerisy? Erythemia of the nasal passages and scalp? Vitiglio?


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