# Thyroid antibodies after tt



## prettynikki5

My ANA is still Positive and has the same Titer it was at the time I was dignosed with Hashi's in Fall of '09 (1:160 Homogeneous). 
It has now been 8 months after my surgey and I am wondering if the ANA could still be positive from the Hashi's after all this time?
Thanks!


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## Andros

prettynikki5 said:


> My ANA is still Positive and has the same Titer it was at the time I was dignosed with Hashi's in Fall of '09 (1:160 Homogeneous).
> It has now been 8 months after my surgey and I am wondering if the ANA could still be positive from the Hashi's after all this time?
> Thanks!


It certainly can be as ANA is "suggestive" of many things; not just thyroid.

Other conditions in which a positive ANA test result may be seen include:

Sjögren's syndrome: Between 40% and 70% of those with this condition have a positive ANA test result. While this finding supports the diagnosis, a negative result does not rule it out. The doctor may want to test for two subsets of ANA: Anti-SS-A (Ro) and Anti-SS-B (La). About 90% or more of people with Sjögren's have autoantibodies to SSA. 
Scleroderma (systemic sclerosis): About 60% to 90% of those with scleroderma have a positive ANA finding. In people who may have this condition, ANA subset tests can help distinguished two forms of the disease, limited versus diffuse. The diffuse form is more severe. Limited disease is most closely associated with the anticentromere pattern of ANA staining (and the anticentromere test), while the diffuse form is associated with autoantibodies to the anti-Scl-70. 
A positive result on the ANA also may show up in people with Raynaud's disease, rheumatoid arthritis, dermatomyositis or polymyosis, mixed connective tissue disease, and other autoimmune conditions. For more on these conditions, visit the American Autoimmune Related Diseases Association patient information page.

http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/ana/test.html

Please go to the above link and read the whole page.


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## prettynikki5

Andros said:


> It certainly can be as ANA is "suggestive" of many things; not just thyroid.
> 
> Other conditions in which a positive ANA test result may be seen include:
> 
> Sjögren's syndrome: Between 40% and 70% of those with this condition have a positive ANA test result. While this finding supports the diagnosis, a negative result does not rule it out. The doctor may want to test for two subsets of ANA: Anti-SS-A (Ro) and Anti-SS-B (La). About 90% or more of people with Sjögren's have autoantibodies to SSA.
> Scleroderma (systemic sclerosis): About 60% to 90% of those with scleroderma have a positive ANA finding. In people who may have this condition, ANA subset tests can help distinguished two forms of the disease, limited versus diffuse. The diffuse form is more severe. Limited disease is most closely associated with the anticentromere pattern of ANA staining (and the anticentromere test), while the diffuse form is associated with autoantibodies to the anti-Scl-70.
> A positive result on the ANA also may show up in people with Raynaud's disease, rheumatoid arthritis, dermatomyositis or polymyosis, mixed connective tissue disease, and other autoimmune conditions. For more on these conditions, visit the American Autoimmune Related Diseases Association patient information page.
> 
> http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/ana/test.html
> 
> Please go to the above link and read the whole page.


I tested negative for all the above with the exception of Scleroderma (systemic sclerosis)-do not believe they tested for that-being that the above tests were negative the Rhuematolgist wrote me a script and told me I have Fibromyalgia. Is that just where we fall if they just do not know, or they have only tested for some autoimmune diseases? I am just weary taking medication that may not be good for me and I feel I don't believe I have been properly diagnosed. I am just very curious how long it takes the immune systme to "settle" from having the thyroid removed. I can tell you I felt it settle literally, my whole body felt calm, almost at peace after a war. No more of those anxious symptoms, menstrual cycle came the same time almost like clockwork every single month since surgery, I felt normal again.
Then BAM! same symptoms, menstrual cycle is off schedule and very light, and I feel like crap again, I need to make some sense of this, but just keep hitting a brick wall.


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## Andros

prettynikki5 said:


> I tested negative for all the above with the exception of Scleroderma (systemic sclerosis)-do not believe they tested for that-being that the above tests were negative the Rhuematolgist wrote me a script and told me I have Fibromyalgia. Is that just where we fall if they just do not know, or they have only tested for some autoimmune diseases? I am just weary taking medication that may not be good for me and I feel I don't believe I have been properly diagnosed. I am just very curious how long it takes the immune systme to "settle" from having the thyroid removed. I can tell you I felt it settle literally, my whole body felt calm, almost at peace after a war. No more of those anxious symptoms, menstrual cycle came the same time almost like clockwork every single month since surgery, I felt normal again.
> Then BAM! same symptoms, menstrual cycle is off schedule and very light, and I feel like crap again, I need to make some sense of this, but just keep hitting a brick wall.


Read this http://www.uptodate.com/contents/patient-information-antinuclear-antibodies-ana

It could be lyme disease, IBS........................anything. I am not sure about fibro. I think docs just say that when they don't know what else it is.

Any reason to think Lyme, Epstein Barr etc.?

Do you have print outs of the exact tests the doctor has run to rule out Sjogren's, Lupus and all the others listed above.? I sure would like to have a look. These would be individually very specific tests.


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## Andros

prettynikki5 said:


> My ANA is still Positive and has the same Titer it was at the time I was dignosed with Hashi's in Fall of '09 (1:160 Homogeneous).
> It has now been 8 months after my surgey and I am wondering if the ANA could still be positive from the Hashi's after all this time?
> Thanks!


This "is" a very good question. I would not know what the half-life of ANA might be. That is assuming Hashi's was the cause of your ANA.


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## prettynikki5

Andros said:


> This "is" a very good question. I would not know what the half-life of ANA might be. That is assuming Hashi's was the cause of your ANA.


Exactly. Assuming it was the cause.This makes me nervous. I think it to be strange that it reads the same as it did then. Exactly the same. Anywho...been a long week, I wanted to post the tests that were run by the rhuemy so you could have a gander:
DNA ANTIBODY EIA	FOOTNOTE	IU/ML
ENA SMITH	1	0 - 15	EU/ML
ENA RNP	0	0 - 15	EU/ML
ANTI SS A	1	0 - 15	EU/ML
ANTI SS B	1	0 - 15	EU/ML
C3	128	83 - 177	MG/DL
C4	35	10 - 40	MG/DL
CARDIOLIPIN IgG	10	0 - 14	see fn
CARDIOLIPIN IgM	<9	0 - 12	see fn
CARDIOLIPIN IgA	<9	0 - 11	see fn
LAT RATIO	1.19 
LA INTERPRETATION	NEGATIVE
CPK	71	30 - 165	U/L

All my values are the 1st numbers next to each description, 2nd #'s are the standard range. He ran many more tests than these, everything came back normal or negative. Now I have an appointment next month to see a nuerologist for a possible MRI for MS. New symptom is a tremor in my right arm/hand only, to the point that I cannot control fine motor movement of my hand to use the computer mouse, also an all over achy feeling (muscles and joints) and my hands have been flaring up red and itchy, esp. when I get upset and/or overheated. Could any of these thing still be related to my thyroid meds or levels in some way? Oh, and I just had 2 wisdom teeth pulled and got a dry socket! Can you believe?! Most pain ever-up there with birthing my 5 babies, LOL! 
Going back to praying for the sadness of today's disaster....
Let me know your thoughts...thank you as always!
hugs3


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## lavender

I had a tooth pulled as well this week. No fun! I have been trying to do everything they told me to in order to avoid dry sockets, but I was so anxious when they told me before the procedure, I could hardly remember anything they said!

The tremor could be a result of your thyroid meds being too high. Definitely not a symptom of Fibromyalgia. I was told that Fibro is the diagnosis they give you when everything else is ruled out.

I was diagnosed with Fibro 4 years ago, and it seemed to give my docs an excuse to stop looking. My old doc totally blew off tons of symptoms and blamed it on fibro too many times for me to count. That's how I ended up almost dying from Graves Disease.

I know lots of folks in a local Fibro support group who believe fibro is a real diagnosis, but for me it felt like a garbage diagnosis. I knew it did not explain all my symptoms. Looking back, I wish I had pushed to see another Rheumey after I was blown off years ago (mine refused to do any bloodwork or follow up with me). I still have muscle aches since my TT, but they are so much less now that I am on Armour.

I am interested in what medication you have been given for Fibro. Some of the meds are scarier than the disease itself.


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## prettynikki5

lavender said:


> I had a tooth pulled as well this week. No fun! I have been trying to do everything they told me to in order to avoid dry sockets, but I was so anxious when they told me before the procedure, I could hardly remember anything they said!
> 
> The tremor could be a result of your thyroid meds being too high. Definitely not a symptom of Fibromyalgia. I was told that Fibro is the diagnosis they give you when everything else is ruled out.
> 
> I was diagnosed with Fibro 4 years ago, and it seemed to give my docs an excuse to stop looking. My old doc totally blew off tons of symptoms and blamed it on fibro too many times for me to count. That's how I ended up almost dying from Graves Disease.
> 
> I know lots of folks in a local Fibro support group who believe fibro is a real diagnosis, but for me it felt like a garbage diagnosis. I knew it did not explain all my symptoms. Looking back, I wish I had pushed to see another Rheumey after I was blown off years ago (mine refused to do any bloodwork or follow up with me). I still have muscle aches since my TT, but they are so much less now that I am on Armour.
> 
> I am interested in what medication you have been given for Fibro. Some of the meds are scarier than the disease itself.


Wow....this Rhuemy did the same to me-tried telling me I had Fibro back in '09 when I really had Hashi's. I should have known better than to allow my PCP to refer me back to him again. Scary that they do this to us.
Supposedly there are a certain number of "tender points" used to diagnose Fibromyalgia, the doctor did not even touch me to see if I had those tender points. He tested for lupus and Srojens, Polymyositis and Dermatomyositis (I presented with facial rash/hand rash), muscle weakness and tremor-my menstrual cycle has all of a sudden become longer about 40 days and lighter than normal, and the anxiety I am feeling is incredible. Also...I hurt all over. It hurts to walk actually. The tremors I am describing is like this- I will be at work and I cannot control my mouse at my computer, like fine motor movement tremor. At first I thought my arm was going "limp" but then I realized it was more like I had lost control of my right hand. 
Well, I feel like it was a garbage diagnosis, with autoimmune illnesses the symptoms can come and go and be so vague that even if Fibro is a 'real' disease-you don't just rule out a few other things and come to the conclusion that the pateint has Fibro. 
I will check at home which medication he prescibed me and let you know. I have no intention of getting it filled.
I really hate not knowing what's wrong with me


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## prettynikki5

GABAPENTIN 300 MG CAP 
This is the Fibro med the rhuemy prescribed.


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## Andros

prettynikki5 said:


> Exactly. Assuming it was the cause.This makes me nervous. I think it to be strange that it reads the same as it did then. Exactly the same. Anywho...been a long week, I wanted to post the tests that were run by the rhuemy so you could have a gander:
> DNA ANTIBODY EIA	FOOTNOTE	IU/ML
> ENA SMITH	1	0 - 15	EU/ML
> ENA RNP	0	0 - 15	EU/ML
> ANTI SS A	1	0 - 15	EU/ML
> ANTI SS B	1	0 - 15	EU/ML
> C3	128	83 - 177	MG/DL
> C4	35	10 - 40	MG/DL
> CARDIOLIPIN IgG	10	0 - 14	see fn
> CARDIOLIPIN IgM	<9	0 - 12	see fn
> CARDIOLIPIN IgA	<9	0 - 11	see fn
> LAT RATIO	1.19
> LA INTERPRETATION	NEGATIVE
> CPK	71	30 - 165	U/L
> 
> All my values are the 1st numbers next to each description, 2nd #'s are the standard range. He ran many more tests than these, everything came back normal or negative. Now I have an appointment next month to see a nuerologist for a possible MRI for MS. New symptom is a tremor in my right arm/hand only, to the point that I cannot control fine motor movement of my hand to use the computer mouse, also an all over achy feeling (muscles and joints) and my hands have been flaring up red and itchy, esp. when I get upset and/or overheated. Could any of these thing still be related to my thyroid meds or levels in some way? Oh, and I just had 2 wisdom teeth pulled and got a dry socket! Can you believe?! Most pain ever-up there with birthing my 5 babies, LOL!
> Going back to praying for the sadness of today's disaster....
> Let me know your thoughts...thank you as always!
> hugs3


Honey...............there must be an epidemic. I just had a tooth pulled, Lavender did also and we have another poster who has 4 impacted wisdom teeth that must come out. What in the world is going on?

So...............what is doc saying about your high C3 and C4?? And the Anti SS A? You have a smattering of those.

And this.

Cardiolipin antibody testing may be ordered when a patient has symptoms suggestive of a thrombotic episode, such as pain and swelling in the extremities, shortness of breath, or headaches. It may also be ordered when a woman has had recurrent miscarriages, and/or ordered along with lupus anticoagulant testing as a follow-up to a prolonged PTT test. When an IgG, IgM, and/or IgA cardiolipin antibody is detected, then it may be repeated several weeks later to determine whether the antibody is temporary or persistent.

You can look all this stuff up here; I am thinking Lupus and "we" are not surprised, are we? We sort of suspected. Dang!!

http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/cardiolipin/test.html

Looks like you might have Lupus. I will be anxious to know what your doc says.


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## prettynikki5

Andros said:


> Honey...............there must be an epidemic. I just had a tooth pulled, Lavender did also and we have another poster who has 4 impacted wisdom teeth that must come out. What in the world is going on?
> 
> So...............what is doc saying about your high C3 and C4?? And the Anti SS A? You have a smattering of those.
> 
> And this.
> 
> Cardiolipin antibody testing may be ordered when a patient has symptoms suggestive of a thrombotic episode, such as pain and swelling in the extremities, shortness of breath, or headaches. It may also be ordered when a woman has had recurrent miscarriages, and/or ordered along with lupus anticoagulant testing as a follow-up to a prolonged PTT test. When an IgG, IgM, and/or IgA cardiolipin antibody is detected, then it may be repeated several weeks later to determine whether the antibody is temporary or persistent.
> 
> You can look all this stuff up here; I am thinking Lupus and "we" are not surprised, are we? We sort of suspected. Dang!!
> 
> http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/cardiolipin/test.html
> 
> Looks like you might have Lupus. I will be anxious to know what your doc says.


Really? He diagnosed me with Fibromyalgia-wrote me a script and made no mention of any of the above results being of any concern.

"C3 (128) 83 - 177 MG/DL
C4 (35) 10 - 40 MG/DL"......you think my #'s here are high @ 128/35?
"ANTI SS A (1) 0 - 15 EU/ML".....my value is "1"...is that abnormal?

I thought Lupus was ruled out at this point?


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## prettynikki5

Andros said:


> Honey...............there must be an epidemic. I just had a tooth pulled, Lavender did also and we have another poster who has 4 impacted wisdom teeth that must come out. What in the world is going on?
> 
> So...............what is doc saying about your high C3 and C4?? And the Anti SS A? You have a smattering of those.
> 
> And this.
> 
> Cardiolipin antibody testing may be ordered when a patient has symptoms suggestive of a thrombotic episode, such as pain and swelling in the extremities, shortness of breath, or headaches. It may also be ordered when a woman has had recurrent miscarriages, and/or ordered along with lupus anticoagulant testing as a follow-up to a prolonged PTT test. When an IgG, IgM, and/or IgA cardiolipin antibody is detected, then it may be repeated several weeks later to determine whether the antibody is temporary or persistent.
> 
> You can look all this stuff up here; I am thinking Lupus and "we" are not surprised, are we? We sort of suspected. Dang!!
> 
> http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/cardiolipin/test.html
> 
> Looks like you might have Lupus. I will be anxious to know what your doc says.


Oh...and the 3 of us should have been sitting around watching movies, sipping smoothies together! LOL! What are the chances


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## Andros

prettynikki5 said:


> Really? He diagnosed me with Fibromyalgia-wrote me a script and made no mention of any of the above results being of any concern.
> 
> "C3 (128) 83 - 177 MG/DL
> C4 (35) 10 - 40 MG/DL"......you think my #'s here are high @ 128/35?
> "ANTI SS A (1) 0 - 15 EU/ML".....my value is "1"...is that abnormal?
> 
> I thought Lupus was ruled out at this point?


You should not have any of the above. Use the link I provided and please look this stuff up. You are going to have to advocate for yourself here, unfortunately. And the only way to do that is to research.

I believe you have lupus. But................I am not a doctor.

http://www.lupus.org/webmodules/web...earndiagnosing.aspx?articleid=2242&zoneid=524

Antibody Tests for Lupus - Topic Overview
Antibody tests are a set of blood tests that check for specific antibodies to help clarify the diagnosis of lupus. They include:

Anti-SS-A (also called Ro).
Anti-SS-B (also called La).
Anti-dsDNA (antibodies to DNA).
Anti-RNP.
Anti-Smith (Sm).
These antibody tests are often positive in lupus and can provide support for a diagnosis if the clinical criteria are unclear or if the ANA test is negative but lupus is strongly suspected.

And I think I mentioned this test before but I don't think your doctor ran it.

High titers of anti-dsDNA are usually seen only in people with lupus.

http://lupus.webmd.com/tc/antibody-tests-for-lupus-topic-overview


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## Andros

prettynikki5 said:


> Oh...and the 3 of us should have been sitting around watching movies, sipping smoothies together! LOL! What are the chances


Chances are not good but boy, what a blast that would be! I would love it!!

I did mean to say how awful that you got a dry socket. I have had them in the past many years ago when I had my wisdom teeth out and I believe Lavender has one right now from her molar. I don't envy either one of you. The pain is enourmous!! {{{{prettynikki}}}}


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## Andros

prettynikki5 said:


> Exactly. Assuming it was the cause.This makes me nervous. I think it to be strange that it reads the same as it did then. Exactly the same. Anywho...been a long week, I wanted to post the tests that were run by the rhuemy so you could have a gander:
> DNA ANTIBODY EIA	FOOTNOTE	IU/ML
> ENA SMITH	1	0 - 15	EU/ML
> ENA RNP	0	0 - 15	EU/ML
> ANTI SS A	1	0 - 15	EU/ML
> ANTI SS B	1	0 - 15	EU/ML
> C3	128	83 - 177	MG/DL
> C4	35	10 - 40	MG/DL
> CARDIOLIPIN IgG	10	0 - 14	see fn
> CARDIOLIPIN IgM	<9	0 - 12	see fn
> CARDIOLIPIN IgA	<9	0 - 11	see fn
> LAT RATIO	1.19
> LA INTERPRETATION	NEGATIVE
> CPK	71	30 - 165	U/L
> 
> All my values are the 1st numbers next to each description, 2nd #'s are the standard range. He ran many more tests than these, everything came back normal or negative. Now I have an appointment next month to see a nuerologist for a possible MRI for MS. New symptom is a tremor in my right arm/hand only, to the point that I cannot control fine motor movement of my hand to use the computer mouse, also an all over achy feeling (muscles and joints) and my hands have been flaring up red and itchy, esp. when I get upset and/or overheated. Could any of these thing still be related to my thyroid meds or levels in some way? Oh, and I just had 2 wisdom teeth pulled and got a dry socket! Can you believe?! Most pain ever-up there with birthing my 5 babies, LOL!
> Going back to praying for the sadness of today's disaster....
> Let me know your thoughts...thank you as always!
> hugs3


Smith antibody is very specific for systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) but only occurs in 30-35% of SLE cases

Sm. This tests the Smith antibody that may be present in people who have lupus. Only about 10 percent of people who have lupus have a positive Sm, but nearly 90 percent of people who have positive Sm tests have lupus. 
http://www.parknicollet.com/Rheumat...m?alphaid=2148491F-E6FF-3080-6713CC9125A3EE69

And read this.
http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/ena_panel/test.html

You do not have anti RNP and that is good but they do wax and wane. I know this for a fact. They could be there and then not be there.

Here is a great matrix!! Follow it to Anti ENA, C3 and C4

http://www.doh.wa.gov/hsqa/fsl/documents/lqa_docs/ana-guideline.pdf

I know, I know...............nag, nag, nag!!


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## prettynikki5

Andros said:
 

> You should not have any of the above. Use the link I provided and please look this stuff up. You are going to have to advocate for yourself here, unfortunately. And the only way to do that is to research.
> 
> I believe you have lupus. But................I am not a doctor.
> 
> http://www.lupus.org/webmodules/web...earndiagnosing.aspx?articleid=2242&zoneid=524
> 
> Antibody Tests for Lupus - Topic Overview
> Antibody tests are a set of blood tests that check for specific antibodies to help clarify the diagnosis of lupus. They include:
> 
> Anti-SS-A (also called Ro).
> Anti-SS-B (also called La).
> Anti-dsDNA (antibodies to DNA).
> Anti-RNP.
> Anti-Smith (Sm).
> These antibody tests are often positive in lupus and can provide support for a diagnosis if the clinical criteria are unclear or if the ANA test is negative but lupus is strongly suspected.
> 
> And I think I mentioned this test before but I don't think your doctor ran it.
> 
> High titers of anti-dsDNA are usually seen only in people with lupus.
> 
> http://lupus.webmd.com/tc/antibody-tests-for-lupus-topic-overview


I am on it! You are the bomb.com! What would I do without you??????????
Seriously when I count my bessings you are so high up on that list for me. I will let you know where this goes....
:hugs:


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## prettynikki5

Andros said:


> Smith antibody is very specific for systemic lupus erythematosus (SLE) but only occurs in 30-35% of SLE cases
> 
> Sm. This tests the Smith antibody that may be present in people who have lupus. Only about 10 percent of people who have lupus have a positive Sm, but nearly 90 percent of people who have positive Sm tests have lupus.
> http://www.parknicollet.com/Rheumat...m?alphaid=2148491F-E6FF-3080-6713CC9125A3EE69
> 
> And read this.
> http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/ena_panel/test.html
> 
> You do not have anti RNP and that is good but they do wax and wane. I know this for a fact. They could be there and then not be there.
> 
> Here is a great matrix!! Follow it to Anti ENA, C3 and C4
> 
> http://www.doh.wa.gov/hsqa/fsl/documents/lqa_docs/ana-guideline.pdf
> 
> I know, I know...............nag, nag, nag!!


LOL! Nag on!

Sm. This tests the Smith antibody that may be present in people who have lupus. Only about 10 percent of people who have lupus have a positive Sm, but nearly 90 percent of people who have positive Sm tests have lupus. 
http://www.parknicollet.com/Rheumato...13CC9125A3EE69

So....does this basically mean that little number 1 means I more than likely have Lupus? I am still checking out all the stuff you are sending me-this really stuck out to me though.


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## lavender

Gabapenton-Neurotin is an anti-seizure med used to block nerve pain. 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000940/

Scroll down and check out the list of side effects! Sounds like it would make you disabled if you're not already! I think I discussed this with my therapist once and her opinion was not favorable! Something about marked personality changes. I remember a client who was on it whose eyes just always looked huge and zonked out like a cartoon. If your goal is to be a zombie....

here's a mental health patient-run side for another slightly entertaining viewpoint:
http://www.crazymeds.us/neurontin.html

The scariest line of all:
"if you've been taking Neurontin (gabapentin) for more than a couple months and you're up to or above 900mg a day you just can't stop cold turkey if you're not at the therapeutic dosage for another anticonvulsant that you know works for you, otherwise you risk partial-complex, absence seizures or even tonic-clonic grand mals, despite your never having had a seizure disorder before!"

I may be a bit of a masochist, but I tend to just deal with my pain because I prefer it to the side effects of a bunch of drugs. Massage, Chiropractic, Mentholated sports rubs. I use advil and tylenol sparingly because I am sensitive to them as well. Too many narcotics allergies to spell out, and I just don't trust most of these meds. Some people tell me they are a godsend, but after 3 rounds of anti-depressants that left me feeling zombified, I think I have plenty of reasons to be skeptical.

I do have an appointment with the oral surgeon tomorrow to find out if I have dry sockets. I would not call the pain excruciating, but I'm still needing to take 6-8 tylenol and 6 ibuprofrin daily and I'm concerned about the huge cavern in my gum. Feeling referred pain in other teeth that seemed to be getting better after the surgery.

Then, yesterday, I looked at my hands and realized that my fingers look swollen again! Not sure if it's the decreased Armour, low level inflammation from tooth extraction/infection, tylenol/ibuprofren, or experimenting with wheat in my diet again. (although I think the swelling was down before my gluten-free experiment) Too many variables. Trying to treat one thing at a time, but it's all piling on again. At least the heart palpitations have stopped with the lower dose of Armour.

And the disappointing news of the week in my body.....the Chropractor told me Monday she's not sure she can do anything to help my lower back pain. I started seeing her almost a year ago after repeated suggestions from the massage therapist when she saw how much pain I was in. Then I got sick with thyroid, and pain issues got sidelined. I guess it's a sign that I'm healthy enough to be able to deal with this again, and have seen her 3 weeks in a row instead of my usual monthly visits. Now the Chiropractor is checking with my insurance to see if they will cover physical therapy. I have no idea what the next step is if all this fails.


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## prettynikki5

lavender said:


> Gabapenton-Neurotin is an anti-seizure med used to block nerve pain.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000940/
> 
> Scroll down and check out the list of side effects! Sounds like it would make you disabled if you're not already! I think I discussed this with my therapist once and her opinion was not favorable! Something about marked personality changes. I remember a client who was on it whose eyes just always looked huge and zonked out like a cartoon. If your goal is to be a zombie....
> 
> here's a mental health patient-run side for another slightly entertaining viewpoint:
> http://www.crazymeds.us/neurontin.html
> 
> The scariest line of all:
> "if you've been taking Neurontin (gabapentin) for more than a couple months and you're up to or above 900mg a day you just can't stop cold turkey if you're not at the therapeutic dosage for another anticonvulsant that you know works for you, otherwise you risk partial-complex, absence seizures or even tonic-clonic grand mals, despite your never having had a seizure disorder before!"
> 
> I may be a bit of a masochist, but I tend to just deal with my pain because I prefer it to the side effects of a bunch of drugs. Massage, Chiropractic, Mentholated sports rubs. I use advil and tylenol sparingly because I am sensitive to them as well. Too many narcotics allergies to spell out, and I just don't trust most of these meds. Some people tell me they are a godsend, but after 3 rounds of anti-depressants that left me feeling zombified, I think I have plenty of reasons to be skeptical.
> 
> I do have an appointment with the oral surgeon tomorrow to find out if I have dry sockets. I would not call the pain excruciating, but I'm still needing to take 6-8 tylenol and 6 ibuprofrin daily and I'm concerned about the huge cavern in my gum. Feeling referred pain in other teeth that seemed to be getting better after the surgery.
> 
> Then, yesterday, I looked at my hands and realized that my fingers look swollen again! Not sure if it's the decreased Armour, low level inflammation from tooth extraction/infection, tylenol/ibuprofren, or experimenting with wheat in my diet again. (although I think the swelling was down before my gluten-free experiment) Too many variables. Trying to treat one thing at a time, but it's all piling on again. At least the heart palpitations have stopped with the lower dose of Armour.
> 
> And the disappointing news of the week in my body.....the Chropractor told me Monday she's not sure she can do anything to help my lower back pain. I started seeing her almost a year ago after repeated suggestions from the massage therapist when she saw how much pain I was in. Then I got sick with thyroid, and pain issues got sidelined. I guess it's a sign that I'm healthy enough to be able to deal with this again, and have seen her 3 weeks in a row instead of my usual monthly visits. Now the Chiropractor is checking with my insurance to see if they will cover physical therapy. I have no idea what the next step is if all this fails.


I was in quite a bit of pain yesterday evening-just sore all over, super stiff, just having a hard time going about making dinner, keeping up with the kids etc...It feels like I spent 48 hrs straight at the gym! So...I ran up to Walgreens and got the Neurontin. I have taken one pill, right before bed last night. It made the bottom of my left foot hurt (still does), and has not helped with the pain at all, BUT it did help with the muscle stiffness I noticed I could stretch out a little easier in bed. After reading what you wrote above and the patient brochure (pretty much the same info on both) I am not going to continue taking it. Man this sucks..I would love some relief right now.

I am so sorry to hear about all your woes! You shouldn't still need all that pain medication-when did you have the extractions done? UNLESS...were they particularly difficult to remove...did you have stitches etc.? I did, and I know that I still have residual pain from that alone which was not related to my dry socket. Maybe that is the case with you? I hope that is all...

About the back...why can they not do anything for your lower back pain? Isn't that what they specialize in? What reason did they give you as to why you are having the pain?


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## Andros

prettynikki5 said:


> LOL! Nag on!
> 
> Sm. This tests the Smith antibody that may be present in people who have lupus. Only about 10 percent of people who have lupus have a positive Sm, but nearly 90 percent of people who have positive Sm tests have lupus.
> http://www.parknicollet.com/Rheumato...13CC9125A3EE69
> 
> So....does this basically mean that little number 1 means I more than likely have Lupus? I am still checking out all the stuff you are sending me-this really stuck out to me though.


Yes, it sure does. Many docs will poo poo that little number but the truth is, you should have none. The mere presence means something is afoot, they are circulating and the number most likely will continue to rise over time.

I don't know why but I could not access that link. I will try later; maybe server traffic is heavy.


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## lavender

prettynikki5 said:


> I was in quite a bit of pain yesterday evening-just sore all over, super stiff, just having a hard time going about making dinner, keeping up with the kids etc...It feels like I spent 48 hrs straight at the gym! So...I ran up to Walgreens and got the Neurontin. I have taken one pill, right before bed last night. It made the bottom of my left foot hurt (still does), and has not helped with the pain at all, BUT it did help with the muscle stiffness I noticed I could stretch out a little easier in bed. After reading what you wrote above and the patient brochure (pretty much the same info on both) I am not going to continue taking it. Man this sucks..I would love some relief right now.
> 
> I am so sorry to hear about all your woes! You shouldn't still need all that pain medication-when did you have the extractions done? UNLESS...were they particularly difficult to remove...did you have stitches etc.? I did, and I know that I still have residual pain from that alone which was not related to my dry socket. Maybe that is the case with you? I hope that is all...
> 
> About the back...why can they not do anything for your lower back pain? Isn't that what they specialize in? What reason did they give you as to why you are having the pain?


You sound like you are in a lot of pain. Not fun. I know I may have to break down and do meds at some point, but I am doing everything I can to avoid. it. I try to get a massage monthly. Massage therapist is a good friend of mine and gives me a "student rate." Chiropractic has helped with a lot, just not the lower back pain. I think the Chiropractor is just being honest about what she can and can not do. I would rather her be honest and tell me she's not going to be able to fix it than keep taking my money and promising a cure she can't deliver!

What's going on with my back is to the best of my knowledge the result of a childhood injury. I guess it hurt for a long time, but it was not until I was in Yoga that I really became aware of it. Then, things got so bad that I couldn't do the yoga anymore. My medical doc took x-rays at the time I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and told me I had mild scoliosis. No suggestions for treatment, just go see the rheumatologist who refused further testing, told me I had fibromyalgia and that there was nothing she could do to help me. She told me to take the aqua arthritis classes and treat my depression. Well, anti-depressants did not help. I was physically unable to do the aqua arthritis (tried and ended up being unable to move for several days), and treated alternatively until I got so sick with the Graves.

Now, it's just trying to get one little thing back at a time. I may end up looking to western medicine about the back problems again. May end up needing a Rheumatologist eventually as well, but right now I'm just trying to do what I can and see what happens. I'll take physical therapy if I can get it paid for and see what happens from there. I follow up with my doc on my Armour dose in a couple weeks and will talk with her if I need to. She's not the same one who blew me off for years, and seems pretty willing to discuss things with me so we shall see....

Thanks to everything I have been through with my thyroid, I know a whole lot more now about not backing down and continuing to look for answers when a doc blows me off! I am determined to get my life back and not be sick forever! I can see the improvement. It is just so slow, and it seems like as soon as one thing gets a little better, something else crops up.

As for the tooth, the oral surgeon told me it is healing normally. Told me about 50% pain reduction is good for now. Should be 95% by next week. I may end up back at the regular dentist's to see if there is something going on with another tooth, but for now I want to let my mouth heal.


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## prettynikki5

lavender said:


> You sound like you are in a lot of pain. Not fun. I know I may have to break down and do meds at some point, but I am doing everything I can to avoid. it. I try to get a massage monthly. Massage therapist is a good friend of mine and gives me a "student rate." Chiropractic has helped with a lot, just not the lower back pain. I think the Chiropractor is just being honest about what she can and can not do. I would rather her be honest and tell me she's not going to be able to fix it than keep taking my money and promising a cure she can't deliver!
> 
> What's going on with my back is to the best of my knowledge the result of a childhood injury. I guess it hurt for a long time, but it was not until I was in Yoga that I really became aware of it. Then, things got so bad that I couldn't do the yoga anymore. My medical doc took x-rays at the time I was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and told me I had mild scoliosis. No suggestions for treatment, just go see the rheumatologist who refused further testing, told me I had fibromyalgia and that there was nothing she could do to help me. She told me to take the aqua arthritis classes and treat my depression. Well, anti-depressants did not help. I was physically unable to do the aqua arthritis (tried and ended up being unable to move for several days), and treated alternatively until I got so sick with the Graves.
> 
> Now, it's just trying to get one little thing back at a time. I may end up looking to western medicine about the back problems again. May end up needing a Rheumatologist eventually as well, but right now I'm just trying to do what I can and see what happens. I'll take physical therapy if I can get it paid for and see what happens from there. I follow up with my doc on my Armour dose in a couple weeks and will talk with her if I need to. She's not the same one who blew me off for years, and seems pretty willing to discuss things with me so we shall see....
> 
> Thanks to everything I have been through with my thyroid, I know a whole lot more now about not backing down and continuing to look for answers when a doc blows me off! I am determined to get my life back and not be sick forever! I can see the improvement. It is just so slow, and it seems like as soon as one thing gets a little better, something else crops up.
> 
> As for the tooth, the oral surgeon told me it is healing normally. Told me about 50% pain reduction is good for now. Should be 95% by next week. I may end up back at the regular dentist's to see if there is something going on with another tooth, but for now I want to let my mouth heal.


That Rheumatologist sounds like a jerk! Why do most of them seem to be...
Glad there is no dry socket to have to deal with on top of everything else. 
I hope you do find some relief for your back, living with chronic pain is just horrible. It is hard to be happy when you are in constant pain 
:hugs:


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## prettynikki5

Andros said:


> Yes, it sure does. Many docs will poo poo that little number but the truth is, you should have none. The mere presence means something is afoot, they are circulating and the number most likely will continue to rise over time.
> 
> I don't know why but I could not access that link. I will try later; maybe server traffic is heavy.


I don't know what else to do at this point, how could the doc have missed this when he especially felt that I have Lupus?
I can't go back to him at this point because he was such a jerk...I don't feel comfortable. I do have an appointment next month with a nuerologist. Can they help me get this sorted out? 
I am anxious, as I kind of feel worse and worse every day. The fatigue, concentration is getting worse, actually have begun to worry about my job  But the worst of all is the joint/muscle pain in my legs/arms/hands, it just as hard to hurt all over all the time. I know something is wrong and I can't feel better, I just want to cry. I try so hard to be positive, but I am so worried and I am not sure what to do.
Would I have a rash on my face also? My face gets a rash all over from time to time (non butterfly shape) and my hands seem to have a redness on the tops of my fingers, that is all.
Thanks for letting me vent....


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## Andros

prettynikki5 said:


> I don't know what else to do at this point, how could the doc have missed this when he especially felt that I have Lupus?
> I can't go back to him at this point because he was such a jerk...I don't feel comfortable. I do have an appointment next month with a nuerologist. Can they help me get this sorted out?
> I am anxious, as I kind of feel worse and worse every day. The fatigue, concentration is getting worse, actually have begun to worry about my job  But the worst of all is the joint/muscle pain in my legs/arms/hands, it just as hard to hurt all over all the time. I know something is wrong and I can't feel better, I just want to cry. I try so hard to be positive, but I am so worried and I am not sure what to do.
> Would I have a rash on my face also? My face gets a rash all over from time to time (non butterfly shape) and my hands seem to have a redness on the tops of my fingers, that is all.
> Thanks for letting me vent....


You don't necessarily get the malar rash; I did not and I had full-blown. The numbers were through the roof!

I did have rashes though on the shoulders, axillary, head sores, nose sores and a myriad of skin problems. I have discoid and systemic but by keeping my TSH suppressed, we are managing to keep the lupus very very quiet.

The pain is horrible. I really think you do have it. I don't want you to but I do want you to be diagnosed and taken care of if you do.

Now yes, any doctor can help you. They just have to want to do so. You make sure you tell him/her about the lupus. Okay???

Maybe you can get on a cancellation list for the neurologist and get in sooner?

If you need to cry, just do so. It is healthy to let it all out. I am so sorry you feel so bad.

Is your diet clean? Have you omitted all artificial sweetners, glutens, msg and other obnoxious flavor enhancers from your diet?

These things aggravate inflamation.....................

Sending gentle hugs,


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## prettynikki5

Andros said:


> You don't necessarily get the malar rash; I did not and I had full-blown. The numbers were through the roof!
> 
> I did have rashes though on the shoulders, axillary, head sores, nose sores and a myriad of skin problems. I have discoid and systemic but by keeping my TSH suppressed, we are managing to keep the lupus very very quiet.
> 
> The pain is horrible. I really think you do have it. I don't want you to but I do want you to be diagnosed and taken care of if you do.
> 
> Now yes, any doctor can help you. They just have to want to do so. You make sure you tell him/her about the lupus. Okay???
> 
> Maybe you can get on a cancellation list for the neurologist and get in sooner?
> 
> If you need to cry, just do so. It is healthy to let it all out. I am so sorry you feel so bad.
> 
> Is your diet clean? Have you omitted all artificial sweetners, glutens, msg and other obnoxious flavor enhancers from your diet?
> 
> These things aggravate inflamation.....................
> 
> Sending gentle hugs,


Yes, the pain is horrible  I was just cleaning my sons room and my thighs/knees were hurting so bad.
I try to eat good all the time-we don't eat out much at all with a tight budget and family of 7, I am stringent on having lots of produce and good stuff for my family to eat, lots of OJ/milk, stuff with low-sugar...however...coffee with french vanilla (artificial) creamer is my vice...I have it almost every day. I have not removed gluten from my diet. I can start with eating more clean, this won't be hard for me to do, as I have done it before.
I just took a nice long shower and cried in it  Crying sure does make you feel better, what a good release.
I will call the Nuero's office and get on that list.
I am with you....sucks that I could have Lupus, but I am the type of person that wants to know and be proactive in my treatment.
Hope you are having a BEAUTIFUL day, my beautiful friend!


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## Andros

prettynikki5 said:


> Yes, the pain is horrible  I was just cleaning my sons room and my thighs/knees were hurting so bad.
> I try to eat good all the time-we don't eat out much at all with a tight budget and family of 7, I am stringent on having lots of produce and good stuff for my family to eat, lots of OJ/milk, stuff with low-sugar...however...coffee with french vanilla (artificial) creamer is my vice...I have it almost every day. I have not removed gluten from my diet. I can start with eating more clean, this won't be hard for me to do, as I have done it before.
> I just took a nice long shower and cried in it  Crying sure does make you feel better, what a good release.
> I will call the Nuero's office and get on that list.
> I am with you....sucks that I could have Lupus, but I am the type of person that wants to know and be proactive in my treatment.
> Hope you are having a BEAUTIFUL day, my beautiful friend!


I am not happy to have Lupus but you should know that I do fine w/it. I don't take any meds for anything. Just my Armour. If we can find out yay or nay; I will help you...........................you know that I will.

Glad you had that little "sob fest"; it triggers the endorphins and you feel so much better!!

Life-style changes are worth it to feel good w/o a whole bunch of medicines. That's my opinion,anyway.

I actually am having such a lovely day (tilled the veggie garden this morning, first pass) and you put a smile in my heart! All will be well; keep the faith.


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## lavender

prettynikki5 said:


> That Rheumatologist sounds like a jerk! Why do most of them seem to be...
> Glad there is no dry socket to have to deal with on top of everything else.
> I hope you do find some relief for your back, living with chronic pain is just horrible. It is hard to be happy when you are in constant pain
> :hugs:


Yep, Jerky rheumy. So glad I know not to take that anymore!

Chiropractor has decided to request back x-rays that were done a couple years back to see where to go from here. She made me happy when she didn't charge me because she decided that adjusting me was not helping, but still talked with me for 15 minutes. I wish regular docs would do that, not charge if they can't be helpful!

I have had to learn to live with the pain. It hasn't been easy, and I was pretty darn depressed for the first year because I felt like I was being sentenced to a life in this broken body. Then, a fried of mine suddenly died of cancer, and I realized how lucky I was to still be alive. Meditation and working on my spiritual connection has helped as well. I have had many spiritual teachers, including a Lakota woman who leads sweat lodges at a yearly gathering. I went not long after my friend's death, and had the blessing of learning to meditate through the pain. I know that I am more than this body.

I made a decision to live my life to the fullest that I am able. I'm definitely not as active as most 30 year olds, but I still have a life, and I appreciate the little things so much more now. I look like I am a lot younger, and I always laugh when people assume that I am 10 years younger when I know women almost 3x my age who are more active! Now, with my thyroid treatment, things are getting better than I believed would be possible, which is pretty amazing.


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