# Any know anything about T3 Uptake or Free Thyroxine Index?



## chopper

I just got some new labs and the hypo trend continues. Numbers are very close to those 2 months ago. I have to stop testing and just start taking some Synthroid I guess.

Out of all the tests I've had, I never had a T3 Uptake or Free Thyroxine Index.

Are these useless tests? Anyone know anything about them?

Here's my latest and greatest numbers with the ref range below:

Thyroxine (T4) 6.6 
4.5-12.0 ug/dL

T3 Uptake 28 
24-39 %

Free Thyroxine Index 1.8 
1.2-4.9

TSH 8.15 
0.450-4.500 uIU/mL

Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 3.3 
2.0-4.4 pg/mL

T4,Free(Direct) 0.79 
0.82-1.77 ng/dL

Any thoughts?


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## Andros

nasdaqphil said:


> I just got some new labs and the hypo trend continues. Numbers are very close to those 2 months ago. I have to stop testing and just start taking some Synthroid I guess.
> 
> Out of all the tests I've had, I never had a T3 Uptake or Free Thyroxine Index.
> 
> Are these useless tests? Anyone know anything about them?
> 
> Here's my latest and greatest numbers with the ref range below:
> 
> Thyroxine (T4) 6.6
> 4.5-12.0 ug/dL
> 
> T3 Uptake 28
> 24-39 %
> 
> Free Thyroxine Index 1.8
> 1.2-4.9
> 
> TSH 8.15
> 0.450-4.500 uIU/mL
> 
> Triiodothyronine,Free,Serum 3.3
> 2.0-4.4 pg/mL
> 
> T4,Free(Direct) 0.79
> 0.82-1.77 ng/dL
> 
> Any thoughts?


Hey there, Nasdaqphil!

Free thyroxine index (FTI), calculated from T3 uptake and total T4, is not totally uselss but it is not as direct a measurement of thyroid hormone levels as free T3 and free T4 tests. Yes, they are old tests but can add value.

T3 uptake is a measurement of the amount of T4 binding protein that is not carrying t4, and is not a measurement of t3 levels.

That is about the extent of my knowledge on that. Hope it is helpful. They are rather antiquated tests but then we still have some "old timers" around and truth be told, some of these old doctors have great great value.

How interesting that your Free T3 is so high. Just a tad above mid-range but definitely not in keeping w/ the TSH and Free T4. And as stated by myself previously; we do see these kinds of variations w/hyperthyroid and also cancer of the thyroid.

How have you been feeling since you last posted?

As you know, I am not sure about you taking thyroxine replacement. Does your doctor still think that you should? Seems to me like your FT4 is converting real fast to FT3 and taking the Synthroid might push you over the top. I don't know what to think here with your TSH being so high. I know you can't be feeling at all well.


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## chopper

That darned T3 has ALWAYS plagued me. I think it has a lot to do with the jumpin jitters!

Check out these labs I found from 2004 when I was having DAILY multiple panic attacks every day - it was horrible. That was the year I went to the ER for the first time in my life cause I thought I was haivng a heart attack.

Check out how high my Total and Free T3 was back then - so was my TSH - it left everyone scratching their heads - it still does.

If I take a pill, in two seconds my T3 goes through the roof - I have no room to increase my T3 free or total, any further really. The only thing to really note is that my Total T4 has dropped quite a bit since then.

*TSH 15.352 
0.40 - 5.5*

*Free T3 4.51 
2.30 - 4.20*

*Free T4 0.9 
0.8 - 1.8*

*Total T3 1.92 
0.70 - 1.79*

Total T4 9 
4.50 - 12.0

*Prolactin 18.8 
2.1 - 17.7*

Cortisol 13.3 
3.1 - 16.7

As for how I feel - I still feel like crap pretty much every day but have learned to live with it. Im a grumpy dude all the time. It's hard to be upbeat when you feel crappy.

Specifically, I still go through hyper/hypo feelings. I am very tired and my eyes half closed during the day but I lug through somehow - some of that is due to lack of sleep. I have a lot of trouble sleeping - sounds real hypo doesn't it?  I am also gaining weight again - very slowly however. I've gained about 3 pounds in the last 2 or 3 years so I guess most would consider that stable - another irony.

Anxiety and infrequent heart palps are still one of my largest problems. I don't get the heart palps as often as I have n the past but they go in cycles. I'll go a few months with maybe one per week and then get 5 or 6 a day for 4 days and then they go away again for a little while. I am always anxious however. My response to normal stimuli is way overexaggerated. For instance, I've given blood about a thousand times now. Mentally I could care less about needles or at least I think that's the case but whenever I have to get blood drawn my legs and hands shake like a 3 year old, blood pressure through the roof and heart rate in the 120's - its insane. I get like that for anything that triggers adrenaline. THAT is perhaps my number 1 problem. I cannot control the way I respond to anxiety.

I asked my wife the other day as we were going to the blood place (she HATES needles) Don't you get a little nervous when you have to give blood? She said yes of course but her physical response is nowhere near mine. Where her heart rate will go from 72 to 80 in response to the nervousness, mine will go from 104 to 125 in response to the same stimuli.

...and then of course there's my heart rate. 104 - 110 is very common for me. I am rarely under 100 but I chalked that up to being very overweight. I've always had a high heart rate for some reason, even as an athlete when I was 17. I remember being in the high 80's/low 90's as a teen, very well conditioned athlete. Maybe this was Graves' all along - who knows? My temp is rarely under 99 also. 75% of the time I'll run 99.2 or so. Every so often I get a low reading in the high 96's.

I am the most sleepless, nervous, hottest hypothyroid patient I ever ran across. It makes absolutely no sense. None of it does, hence the 8 years spent miserable.

One theory a doctor mentioned a while ago about my T3 goes like this and I was wondering your thoughts:

_The body is converting the more usable form, T3, at an accelerated rate in response to your hypothyroidism in order to keep you alive. The body cannot get enough T4 for you to function normally so you've adapted to converting what little T4 you have into lots of T3 to keep you alive._

Does that make any sense physically? It made sense to me philosophically but not so sure that's what actually happens.


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## chopper

SO...with all that said, do I roll the dice and face my nemesis - The Evil Synthroid Pill?

It's been about 3 years since I last took synthroid and it was a tiny dose. I don't remember all the specifics of how I felt but I know specifically I told myself I will never, ever take that again. Was it all mental? I never got beyond a day of taking it. All the doctors say it is impossible to feel anything after 1 day. Am I just psyching myself out all these years or did I actually react to the small amount of Synthroid? I know it had nothing to do with fillers or anything like that. I felt wired. Really wired.

It reminded me of a bad reaction I had once as a teen to cold medicine where I took it and my heart nearly jumped out of my chest and I was shaking so bad I thought I was dying. It was really weird. I think it had Ephedrine in it.


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## Andros

nasdaqphil said:


> That darned T3 has ALWAYS plagued me. I think it has a lot to do with the jumpin jitters!
> 
> Check out these labs I found from 2004 when I was having DAILY multiple panic attacks every day - it was horrible. That was the year I went to the ER for the first time in my life cause I thought I was haivng a heart attack.
> 
> Check out how high my Total and Free T3 was back then - so was my TSH - it left everyone scratching their heads - it still does.
> 
> If I take a pill, in two seconds my T3 goes through the roof - I have no room to increase my T3 free or total, any further really. The only thing to really note is that my Total T4 has dropped quite a bit since then.
> 
> *TSH 15.352
> 0.40 - 5.5*
> 
> *Free T3 4.51
> 2.30 - 4.20*
> 
> *Free T4 0.9
> 0.8 - 1.8*
> 
> *Total T3 1.92
> 0.70 - 1.79*
> 
> Total T4 9
> 4.50 - 12.0
> 
> *Prolactin 18.8
> 2.1 - 17.7*
> 
> Cortisol 13.3
> 3.1 - 16.7
> 
> As for how I feel - I still feel like crap pretty much every day but have learned to live with it. Im a grumpy dude all the time. It's hard to be upbeat when you feel crappy.
> 
> Specifically, I still go through hyper/hypo feelings. I am very tired and my eyes half closed during the day but I lug through somehow - some of that is due to lack of sleep. I have a lot of trouble sleeping - sounds real hypo doesn't it?  I am also gaining weight again - very slowly however. I've gained about 3 pounds in the last 2 or 3 years so I guess most would consider that stable - another irony.
> 
> Anxiety and infrequent heart palps are still one of my largest problems. I don't get the heart palps as often as I have n the past but they go in cycles. I'll go a few months with maybe one per week and then get 5 or 6 a day for 4 days and then they go away again for a little while. I am always anxious however. My response to normal stimuli is way overexaggerated. For instance, I've given blood about a thousand times now. Mentally I could care less about needles or at least I think that's the case but whenever I have to get blood drawn my legs and hands shake like a 3 year old, blood pressure through the roof and heart rate in the 120's - its insane. I get like that for anything that triggers adrenaline. THAT is perhaps my number 1 problem. I cannot control the way I respond to anxiety.
> 
> I asked my wife the other day as we were going to the blood place (she HATES needles) Don't you get a little nervous when you have to give blood? She said yes of course but her physical response is nowhere near mine. Where her heart rate will go from 72 to 80 in response to the nervousness, mine will go from 104 to 125 in response to the same stimuli.
> 
> ...and then of course there's my heart rate. 104 - 110 is very common for me. I am rarely under 100 but I chalked that up to being very overweight. I've always had a high heart rate for some reason, even as an athlete when I was 17. I remember being in the high 80's/low 90's as a teen, very well conditioned athlete. Maybe this was Graves' all along - who knows? My temp is rarely under 99 also. 75% of the time I'll run 99.2 or so. Every so often I get a low reading in the high 96's.
> 
> I am the most sleepless, nervous, hottest hypothyroid patient I ever ran across. It makes absolutely no sense. None of it does, hence the 8 years spent miserable.
> 
> One theory a doctor mentioned a while ago about my T3 goes like this and I was wondering your thoughts:
> 
> _The body is converting the more usable form, T3, at an accelerated rate in response to your hypothyroidism in order to keep you alive. The body cannot get enough T4 for you to function normally so you've adapted to converting what little T4 you have into lots of T3 to keep you alive._
> 
> Does that make any sense physically? It made sense to me philosophically but not so sure that's what actually happens.


Geez; you sure don't have quality of life and I have to tell you that I personally do not think you are hypo even though the TSH is high. All other tests point to hyper and so do your symptoms. The symptoms can and do cross over. They are not sealed in stone. As I have indicated, I have seen these sort of skewed lab numbers so many times and lo and behold, the patient was definitely hyperthyroid. You could have "binding" thyroid stimulating hormone which is keeping the TSH up there. Remember, there are binding, blocking and stimulating hormones.

Once again, I suggest you consider ablation.


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## chopper

Really though if you look at my labs and the fact that Im starting to gain weight again ever so slowly, barring my high T3 numbers, my total T4, Free T4 and TSH indicate hypo, do they not?

Do you have any idea what could cause my T3 to remain right in the middle of the range when everything else seems to be falling?

Keep in mind too that my Testosterone is really low and my Ferritin is really high - both are indicators of hypo so I've been told - add to that high prolactin and it adds yet another indicator for the hypo argument.

If you looked at my labs and my Free T3 was slightly lower, I would have almost no case for hyper, other than TSI.

I hate this crap! Im always dizzy feeling and out of sorts. I can't sleep for squat.

Do you know anything or any diseases that "cycle" based on the time? I know this sounds nuts added to my already long list of things but I've been noticing "something" that appears to be tied to sleep.

I get into bed usually by 10 pm. I don't get to sleep until 1 or 2 usually. My sleep between 1 and 4 am is filled with tossing and turning and it's just low quality sleep. Then if I have the time to do so, I get the absolute best sleep between 5 am and 7 or 8. I would probably sleep until 10 if I could. I notice too that most of my heart palps are either early in the morning, around 10 am or later at night, around 11 pm. I might be grasping for straws but this is something I've thought about for a while now. I am unaware of any "timing conditions". It seems I have some kind of body clock thing going on.

The only hormones I am aware of that have anything to do with time are cortisol and Testosterone. Could one of these hormones account for my symptoms and are cycling along with my body's natural timing? If so, what would be the condition or am I just grasping at straws again?

Just took my BP - was feeling kind of mellow and thought it might be low. I was 126 / 88 with 109 beats per minute. I don't get it. Everyone says Im fat and hypo then why is my heart rate always so fast? What happens to that 109 if and when I start Synthroid? I'll probably have a resting rate of 140.


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## Andros

nasdaqphil said:


> Really though if you look at my labs and the fact that Im starting to gain weight again ever so slowly, barring my high T3 numbers, my total T4, Free T4 and TSH indicate hypo, do they not?_Sadly, we cannot bar the FT3 numbers; they are very telling._
> 
> Do you have any idea what could cause my T3 to remain right in the middle of the range when everything else seems to be falling?_You are converting very very fast; T4 is just being sucked up and TSH is not receiving the info at this time._
> 
> Keep in mind too that my Testosterone is really low and my Ferritin is really high - both are indicators of hypo so I've been told - add to that high prolactin and it adds yet another indicator for the hypo argument.
> 
> If you looked at my labs and my Free T3 was slightly lower, I would have almost no case for hyper, other than TSI._All my acquired knowledge clearly states that TSI is definitive for hyper thyroid. I believe you probably have high titer of TBII which is inhibiting the TSH receptors.
> 
> Thyrotrophin Binding Inhibiting Immunoglobulin (TBII) (serum)
> 
> TBII is a term used to describe antibodies to the thyroid thyrotrophin receptor which are found in the serum of patients with Graves' disease. Usually the antibody has the effect of stimulating the production of thyroid hormones in a similar manner to TSH, but blocking antibodies are also known (much rarer).
> _
> 
> I hate this crap! Im always dizzy feeling and out of sorts. I can't sleep for squat.
> 
> Do you know anything or any diseases that "cycle" based on the time? I know this sounds nuts added to my already long list of things but I've been noticing "something" that appears to be tied to sleep.
> 
> I get into bed usually by 10 pm. I don't get to sleep until 1 or 2 usually. My sleep between 1 and 4 am is filled with tossing and turning and it's just low quality sleep. Then if I have the time to do so, I get the absolute best sleep between 5 am and 7 or 8. I would probably sleep until 10 if I could. I notice too that most of my heart palps are either early in the morning, around 10 am or later at night, around 11 pm. I might be grasping for straws but this is something I've thought about for a while now. I am unaware of any "timing conditions". It seems I have some kind of body clock thing going on. _Sure; that is the circadian cycle and the pineal gland which is commonly referred to as the "third eye!" When the hormones are off (in this case the thyroid) the pineal gland goes whacko. It has something to do w/ seratonin and melatonin as well. It's all tied in._
> 
> The only hormones I am aware of that have anything to do with time are cortisol and Testosterone. Could one of these hormones account for my symptoms and are cycling along with my body's natural timing? If so, what would be the condition or am I just grasping at straws again?
> 
> Just took my BP - was feeling kind of mellow and thought it might be low. I was 126 / 88 with 109 beats per minute. I don't get it. Everyone says Im fat and hypo then why is my heart rate always so fast? What happens to that 109 if and when I start Synthroid? I'll probably have a resting rate of 140.


_When and if you decide to get your thyroid ablated, you are going to always wonder why you did not do it sooner. And of course you know that I personally do not think you should be taking thyroxine replacement and we both know the reason why.

And don't forget, many of us, myself included, gained weight with Graves'/hyperthyroid. Symptoms can and do cross over. No 2 bodies behave the same._:anim_03: Same old song and dance.:anim_63:


----------



## Andros

nasdaqphil said:


> Really though if you look at my labs and the fact that Im starting to gain weight again ever so slowly, barring my high T3 numbers, my total T4, Free T4 and TSH indicate hypo, do they not?
> 
> Do you have any idea what could cause my T3 to remain right in the middle of the range when everything else seems to be falling?
> 
> Keep in mind too that my Testosterone is really low and my Ferritin is really high - both are indicators of hypo so I've been told - add to that high prolactin and it adds yet another indicator for the hypo argument.
> 
> If you looked at my labs and my Free T3 was slightly lower, I would have almost no case for hyper, other than TSI.
> 
> I hate this crap! Im always dizzy feeling and out of sorts. I can't sleep for squat.
> 
> Do you know anything or any diseases that "cycle" based on the time? I know this sounds nuts added to my already long list of things but I've been noticing "something" that appears to be tied to sleep.
> 
> I get into bed usually by 10 pm. I don't get to sleep until 1 or 2 usually. My sleep between 1 and 4 am is filled with tossing and turning and it's just low quality sleep. Then if I have the time to do so, I get the absolute best sleep between 5 am and 7 or 8. I would probably sleep until 10 if I could. I notice too that most of my heart palps are either early in the morning, around 10 am or later at night, around 11 pm. I might be grasping for straws but this is something I've thought about for a while now. I am unaware of any "timing conditions". It seems I have some kind of body clock thing going on.
> 
> The only hormones I am aware of that have anything to do with time are cortisol and Testosterone. Could one of these hormones account for my symptoms and are cycling along with my body's natural timing? If so, what would be the condition or am I just grasping at straws again?
> 
> Just took my BP - was feeling kind of mellow and thought it might be low. I was 126 / 88 with 109 beats per minute. I don't get it. Everyone says Im fat and hypo then why is my heart rate always so fast? What happens to that 109 if and when I start Synthroid? I'll probably have a resting rate of 140.





nasdaqphil said:


> Really though if you look at my labs and the fact that Im starting to gain weight again ever so slowly, barring my high T3 numbers, my total T4, Free T4 and TSH indicate hypo, do they not?
> 
> _Sadly, we cannot bar the FT3 numbers; they are very telling._
> 
> Do you have any idea what could cause my T3 to remain right in the middle of the range when everything else seems to be falling?
> 
> _You are converting very very fast; T4 is just being sucked up and TSH is not receiving the info at this time._
> 
> Keep in mind too that my Testosterone is really low and my Ferritin is really high - both are indicators of hypo so I've been told - add to that high prolactin and it adds yet another indicator for the hypo argument.
> 
> If you looked at my labs and my Free T3 was slightly lower, I would have almost no case for hyper, other than TSI.
> 
> _All my acquired knowledge clearly states that TSI is definitive for hyper thyroid. I believe you probably have high titer of TBII which is inhibiting the TSH receptors.
> 
> Thyrotrophin Binding Inhibiting Immunoglobulin (TBII) (serum)
> 
> TBII is a term used to describe antibodies to the thyroid thyrotrophin receptor which are found in the serum of patients with Graves' disease. Usually the antibody has the effect of stimulating the production of thyroid hormones in a similar manner to TSH, but blocking antibodies are also known (much rarer).
> _
> 
> I hate this crap! Im always dizzy feeling and out of sorts. I can't sleep for squat.
> 
> Do you know anything or any diseases that "cycle" based on the time? I know this sounds nuts added to my already long list of things but I've been noticing "something" that appears to be tied to sleep.
> 
> I get into bed usually by 10 pm. I don't get to sleep until 1 or 2 usually. My sleep between 1 and 4 am is filled with tossing and turning and it's just low quality sleep. Then if I have the time to do so, I get the absolute best sleep between 5 am and 7 or 8. I would probably sleep until 10 if I could. I notice too that most of my heart palps are either early in the morning, around 10 am or later at night, around 11 pm. I might be grasping for straws but this is something I've thought about for a while now. I am unaware of any "timing conditions". It seems I have some kind of body clock thing going on.
> 
> _Sure; that is the circadian cycle and the pineal gland which is commonly referred to as the "third eye!" When the hormones are off (in this case the thyroid) the pineal gland goes whacko. It has something to do w/ seratonin and melatonin as well. It's all tied in._
> 
> The only hormones I am aware of that have anything to do with time are cortisol and Testosterone. Could one of these hormones account for my symptoms and are cycling along with my body's natural timing? If so, what would be the condition or am I just grasping at straws again?
> 
> Just took my BP - was feeling kind of mellow and thought it might be low. I was 126 / 88 with 109 beats per minute. I don't get it. Everyone says Im fat and hypo then why is my heart rate always so fast? What happens to that 109 if and when I start Synthroid? I'll probably have a resting rate of 140.


_When and if you decide to get your thyroid ablated, you are going to always wonder why you did not do it sooner. And of course you know that I personally do not think you should be taking thyroxine replacement and we both know the reason why.

And don't forget, many of us, myself included, gained weight with Graves'/hyperthyroid. Symptoms can and do cross over. No 2 bodies behave the same._:anim_03: Same old song and dance.:anim_63:


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## chopper

...and you would not hesitate to consider ablation over surgery? Mentally, I've never even really considered ablation. I always thought I would be best off with surgery for some reason - let them get a good look at it to make sure there is not any looming cancer or something.


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## Andros

nasdaqphil said:


> ...and you would not hesitate to consider ablation over surgery? Mentally, I've never even really considered ablation. I always thought I would be best off with surgery for some reason - let them get a good look at it to make sure there is not any looming cancer or something.


Mr. Phil...................that was a play on words. I know that RAI and Ablation are used interchangeably but I am from the old school and as per Webster........ "surgical removal of a body part."

In any case, never mind Webster. Yes; I recommend that if and when that you chose the surgical route and mainly because a pathologist should have a good look at your "bad boy" thyroid gland. We are on the same page re surgical removal.

I messed up my reply to you. I was trying to answer each question by inserting down the page. Well, that worked fine until I submitted my reply. I got worried I was going to lose all my research and have to do it over so I had to jury rig it.

Hope you could understand what I wrote. LHM (Lord have mercy)


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## chopper

Thank you for all the information. Yes I did understand it all. I feel like a kid sometimes thinking if I ask the same question 50 times the answer will change to the one I want to hear eventually (very hard headed). :anim_55:

At the advice of my doc and against everything me and you think, I may try a round of 25 mcg Synthroid for a few weeks to see if it "tweaks me out" or not. Gotta admit it's a lot less traumatic than surgery and if I can't do it than I'll know for sure it was hyper all along. I don't think that amount could be enough to send me over the edge given my manly girth (fat butt) just in case it is all about Graves. I know the symptoms well enough at this point to cut it short quickly.

By the way, I hope He does (the Lord, that is) because it's been a rough ride and only He knows I can use a little "mercy" right about now. arty0006: Some extra cash would be nice too but I'll settle for some plain ole mercy.


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## Andros

nasdaqphil said:


> Thank you for all the information. Yes I did understand it all. I feel like a kid sometimes thinking if I ask the same question 50 times the answer will change to the one I want to hear eventually (very hard headed). :anim_55:
> 
> At the advice of my doc and against everything me and you think, I may try a round of 25 mcg Synthroid for a few weeks to see if it "tweaks me out" or not. Gotta admit it's a lot less traumatic than surgery and if I can't do it than I'll know for sure it was hyper all along. I don't think that amount could be enough to send me over the edge given my manly girth (fat butt) just in case it is all about Graves. I know the symptoms well enough at this point to cut it short quickly.
> 
> By the way, I hope He does (the Lord, that is) because it's been a rough ride and only He knows I can use a little "mercy" right about now. arty0006: Some extra cash would be nice too but I'll settle for some plain ole mercy.


My husband is a Capricorn so I know stubborn:anim_63: He keeps on taking his BP over and over until he finds the right one; I kid you not. This must be a "man thing!" OMG!!

Do be careful because is not about the weight; it is about your heart. And yes, you do know the symptoms so you know to grab goiterogenic foods and even L-Carnitine which is an amino acid which is used to treat hyperthyroid is "some" cases.

I am keeping you and yours in my prayers.

And, once again I apologize for my "messy" reply. Egads. What a day that was!


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## chopper

Thanks. I know I still have some Propranolol around here somewhere if it hasn't expired just in case.

BTW I do the BP thing too - it is a man thing. :confused0031:

Men are typically control freaks and when we have something we cannot control our minds seek logical answers.

The car won't start so you check the battery. If the battery is good you check the coil. If the coil is good you check the alternator, etc. One way or another we are going to find an answer that fixes the problem - that's our nature and if not we'll find a solution that gets the job done anyway regardless of the process even if it's not by the book.


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## chopper

Andros, you think it's a flat out stupid move to give the synthroid at least a try first before going right to nuking my gland?


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## Andros

nasdaqphil said:


> Thanks. I know I still have some Propranolol around here somewhere if it hasn't expired just in case.
> 
> BTW I do the BP thing too - it is a man thing. :confused0031:
> 
> Men are typically control freaks and when we have something we cannot control our minds seek logical answers.
> 
> The car won't start so you check the battery. If the battery is good you check the coil. If the coil is good you check the alternator, etc. One way or another we are going to find an answer that fixes the problem - that's our nature and if not we'll find a solution that gets the job done anyway regardless of the process even if it's not by the book.


And I say, "Thank God for the determined man!" Believe me, I am grateful! But, your body is not a car!!:confused0068: Surprise, surprise!! Hee, hee!

No, I don't think it is stupid. I would never say that anyway. LOL!! :anim_03: Just urging caution. But of course, you do know that if anything is going to happen it is unlikely to happen right away as that is a low dose and it takes 6 to 8 weeks to build up in your system.


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## chopper

8 years of misery and a watch a stupid pill cures me. I'll probably find out I was actually hypo the whole time and just needed a little boost. I seriously doubt that's the case but it would be nice if it turns out that way. I think my thyroid is finally starting to lose the fight and is starting to die off. My numbers have been a lot more consistent lately. I know the hyper periods are no way as intense or as frequent as they were 8 years ago. Those were just brutal.


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## Andros

nasdaqphil said:


> 8 years of misery and a watch a stupid pill cures me. I'll probably find out I was actually hypo the whole time and just needed a little boost. I seriously doubt that's the case but it would be nice if it turns out that way. I think my thyroid is finally starting to lose the fight and is starting to die off. My numbers have been a lot more consistent lately. I know the hyper periods are no way as intense or as frequent as they were 8 years ago. Those were just brutal.


When was the last time you had a TSI? Wonder if you are just getting used to feeling bad? I surely hope not but actually at times that did happen to me. It was just so on-going and I had to find ways to fight through it so to do that, I eventually accepted it.....................................ug! Not a good scenario at all.

Do you think you should have TSI (thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin) before embarking upon this experiment? I wonder?


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## chopper

2008 was my last TSI. It's not that I feel particularly unwell now. Im just tired of dealing with it. I've been beaten down by a stupid gland and Im ready to turn it around. My kids (3 and 6) are getting older and Im missing everything.

I know I've had at least 2 additional TSI tests in addition to these below cause I know I had one score in the 60's once and I was shocked but I cant seem to find them. The most recent is the 2008 below though.

Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulin (TSI) 179 
0 - 125 3-18-2008

Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulin (TSI) 130 
<= 125 1-16-2006

Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulin (TSI) 170 
>130 3-15-2005

Added....have another quick question....does ACTH fluctuate much? When looking for that TSI I found a lab from 2008 with an ACTH score of 50 with a range of 6 - 46. I only assume since it wasn't way out of range my doc skipped over it as no big deal. Is that anything to note?


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## Andros

nasdaqphil said:


> 2008 was my last TSI. It's not that I feel particularly unwell now. Im just tired of dealing with it. I've been beaten down by a stupid gland and Im ready to turn it around. My kids (3 and 6) are getting older and Im missing everything.
> 
> I know I've had at least 2 additional TSI tests in addition to these below cause I know I had one score in the 60's once and I was shocked but I cant seem to find them. The most recent is the 2008 below though.
> 
> Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulin (TSI) 179
> 0 - 125 3-18-2008
> 
> Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulin (TSI) 130
> <= 125 1-16-2006
> 
> Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulin (TSI) 170
> >130 3-15-2005
> 
> Added....have another quick question....does ACTH fluctuate much? When looking for that TSI I found a lab from 2008 with an ACTH score of 50 with a range of 6 - 46. I only assume since it wasn't way out of range my doc skipped over it as no big deal. Is that anything to note?


Well; I don't think your TSI went away and "if" you had a TBII, you would probably turn up positive for that.

I don't know a whole lot about ACTH; but yes, I indeed do think that it fluctuates especially due to personal circumstanses (life-style, illness, stress) at the time.

Then I found this...

http://models.cellml.org/exposure/8b240ae8ef73872916b8a8e53627d6bd


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## chopper

I guess I have had a TBII but it was in 2006 and was below the range (negative, but not zero)

Thyrotropin Binding Inhibitory Immunoglob. (TBII) 9.9 
<= 16% 
1-16-2006

Thyroxine Binding Globulin (TBG) 25 
13 - 39 
3-18-2008

Isn't my lab work amazing. I am like a walking contradiction. Everything you would expect to see, the opposite happens.

Gain weight while hypo. High Ferritin while supposedly hypo. Low TBII but high TSI. Supposedly hypo with a 99.4 body temp. Graves with a high TSH and low T4. T3 that is high but low T4 and high TSH. Supposedly hypo but always hot and sensitive to light. Very high Ferritin but totally normal iron and TIBC.

NONE of it makes any sense! Calling Dr. House....


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## Andros

nasdaqphil said:


> I guess I have had a TBII but it was in 2006 and was below the range (negative, but not zero)
> 
> Thyrotropin Binding Inhibitory Immunoglob. (TBII) 9.9
> <= 16%
> 1-16-2006
> 
> Thyroxine Binding Globulin (TBG) 25
> 13 - 39
> 3-18-2008
> 
> Isn't my lab work amazing. I am like a walking contradiction. Everything you would expect to see, the opposite happens.
> 
> Gain weight while hypo. High Ferritin while supposedly hypo. Low TBII but high TSI. Supposedly hypo with a 99.4 body temp. Graves with a high TSH and low T4. T3 that is high but low T4 and high TSH. Supposedly hypo but always hot and sensitive to light. Very high Ferritin but totally normal iron and TIBC.
> 
> NONE of it makes any sense! Calling Dr. House....


It makes sense to me; TBII is one antibody that would prevent the TSH from moving as it is counter-attacking the TSI. T4 is low because it is converting at a very fast pace to FT3.

All your symptoms are not contradictory to me; not at all. High temp = hyper, many hypers gain weight, TBII fighting off TSI so therefore the TSH is being held hostage in about the same place.

You actually are very very ill; I don't know how you are functioning and then if you recall, I think you also may have hemochromatosis.


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## chopper

So you think my case is clear cut graves, huh? Even with the low FT4, Tot T4 and high TSH?

Now isn't it true that hypo's tend to have very low testosterone? My test is like 185 - off the charts low. I should be like 600. How does that come into play with the hyper argument?

Im just trying to piece it all together to get some sort of final resolve.

Im thinking about just checking myself into the mayo clinic for 3 weeks and tell them to knock me out for a week and wake me up when Im fixed.

Regarding the hemachromatosis, my TIBC was right in line - perfect. Docs dismissed iron overload but it was checked a few times to be sure. My Iron and everything else related was fine except ferritin. You don't think that is a bit odd?

I have so many things that are difficult to explain. I tested a 70 once on the 24 hour cortisol - that is AUTOMATICALLY a trigger for Cushings normally but when I retested it was like 20 and then retested again at 40. I think the cutoff for normal was under 50. Where did the 70 come from? It's not like it was a simple blood test - this was a 24 HOUR pee test.

As ill as my labs make me out to be, I get along pretty well considering. I work like 10 - 12 hours a day and have learned to deal with the ups and downs pretty well. Some days, although rare, I feel almost perfect. Other times I feel like crap.

I just want a proper diagnosis. If it is one thing, then what's the one thing. If it's a few things, what are those things?

Is my thyroid the magic button? Get it yanked out and my ferritin goes to normal and my testosterone comes up and my body temp stays at 98.6? Could that possibly be the answer?

-or- is it more like I have a pit tumor that's causing havoc AND iron overload AND a bad thyroid AND some adrenal problem AND problems with my testosterone?


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## Andros

nasdaqphil said:


> So you think my case is clear cut graves, huh? Even with the low FT4, Tot T4 and high TSH?
> 
> Now isn't it true that hypo's tend to have very low testosterone? My test is like 185 - off the charts low. I should be like 600. How does that come into play with the hyper argument?
> 
> Im just trying to piece it all together to get some sort of final resolve.
> 
> Im thinking about just checking myself into the mayo clinic for 3 weeks and tell them to knock me out for a week and wake me up when Im fixed.
> 
> Regarding the hemachromatosis, my TIBC was right in line - perfect. Docs dismissed iron overload but it was checked a few times to be sure. My Iron and everything else related was fine except ferritin. You don't think that is a bit odd?
> 
> I have so many things that are difficult to explain. I tested a 70 once on the 24 hour cortisol - that is AUTOMATICALLY a trigger for Cushings normally but when I retested it was like 20 and then retested again at 40. I think the cutoff for normal was under 50. Where did the 70 come from? It's not like it was a simple blood test - this was a 24 HOUR pee test.
> 
> As ill as my labs make me out to be, I get along pretty well considering. I work like 10 - 12 hours a day and have learned to deal with the ups and downs pretty well. Some days, although rare, I feel almost perfect. Other times I feel like crap.
> 
> I just want a proper diagnosis. If it is one thing, then what's the one thing. If it's a few things, what are those things?
> 
> Is my thyroid the magic button? Get it yanked out and my ferritin goes to normal and my testosterone comes up and my body temp stays at 98.6? Could that possibly be the answer?
> 
> -or- is it more like I have a pit tumor that's causing havoc AND iron overload AND a bad thyroid AND some adrenal problem AND problems with my testosterone?


 Hyperthyroidism Elevated estradiol and depressed bioavailable testosterone have been cited as the cause of sexual dysfunction common in hyperthyroid individuals. 
http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C14985.html

Remember, symptoms do cross over and nothing is carved in stone.

We do learn to adapt; that is for sure. But I opt for getting you well so you don't have to adapt. As you say, you have 2 very precious and darling children that need your attention.


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