# Endo says these numbers are fine, what do you think?



## Kaylasly (Nov 14, 2009)

Here are my lastest labs; please let me know what you think, I feel terrible!

TSH 1.4
FT4- 0.82 (0.82-1.77)
FT3- 2.3 (2.0-4.4)


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Kaylasly said:


> Here are my lastest labs; please let me know what you think, I feel terrible!
> 
> TSH 1.4
> FT4- 0.82 (0.82-1.77)
> FT3- 2.3 (2.0-4.4)


Your Frees are in the basement and that is very very bad; I "know" you feel terrible.

We have gone over this; you are likely hyperthyroid even though these numbers don't reflect that. You also need an uptake scan to rule out cancer. I see these numbers all the time and as odd as they may seem, they are familiar to me.

As suggested in another post, please find another doctor.


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## Kaylasly (Nov 14, 2009)

Andros, I know you are getting a little irritated with me. I appreciate all your information and believe me , I am reading it all. Unfortunately, I do not feel that I am getting good medical care for the thyroid. I have been to 3 endocrinologists and they all just look at the tsh and say I am fine. Nobody has recommended more testing. I think they are feeling as though I am some sort of a nut case. The only reason they are testing my blood every week is because I have a wonderful GP bit unfortunately he knows nothing about the thyroid. I am not sure where you live, but the medical care here in San Diego for thyroid is just not up to par. Therefore, I am turning to the message boards to try to learn and diagnose. It is not easy to just switch doctors, first of all I can't go outside my plan and second most of them are booked through April. I am not sure where to turn next. Do you know anything about Ha****oxicosis? After reading about it, it seems consistant to what I have, including the eye disease. What sort of blood tests do I need to test for that? I am sorry if I am a pain, but I am afraid I need to take my health into my own hands at this point.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Kaylasly said:


> Andros, I know you are getting a little irritated with me. I appreciate all your information and believe me , I am reading it all. Unfortunately, I do not feel that I am getting good medical care for the thyroid. I have been to 3 endocrinologists and they all just look at the tsh and say I am fine. Nobody has recommended more testing. I think they are feeling as though I am some sort of a nut case. The only reason they are testing my blood every week is because I have a wonderful GP bit unfortunately he knows nothing about the thyroid. I am not sure where you live, but the medical care here in San Diego for thyroid is just not up to par. Therefore, I am turning to the message boards to try to learn and diagnose. It is not easy to just switch doctors, first of all I can't go outside my plan and second most of them are booked through April. I am not sure where to turn next. Do you know anything about Ha****oxicosis? After reading about it, it seems consistant to what I have, including the eye disease. What sort of blood tests do I need to test for that? I am sorry if I am a pain, but I am afraid I need to take my health into my own hands at this point.


Oh, honey bunny!! No way!! I am so worried for you and to make matters worse, you are not getting good medical care.

You are not a nut case and you do have thyroid disease. This is such a horrible situation for you, the patient. To not have a doctor validate you is the worst feeling in the whole world. I should know and many others here do also.

Trust me; you are NOT a pain, not a bother and always a pleasure. I get irritated at myself.

And I believe you are right; I know you are hyper and here is what I found.......

Occasionally the picture of Hashimoto's thyroiditis blends rather imperceptibly into that of thyrotoxicosis, and some patients have symptoms of mild thyrotoxicosis, but then develop typical Hashimoto's thyroiditis. In fact, it is best to think of Graves' disease and Hashimoto's thyroiditis as two very closely related syndromes produced by thyroid autoimmunity. Categorization depends on associated eye findings and the metabolic level, but the pathogenesis, histologic picture, and function may overlap.

http://www.thyroidmanager.org/Chapter8/8-frame.htm

And wait until you read this.............

http://www.ahsta.com/Community/Foru...rumid/91/postid/1773/scope/posts/Default.aspx

This is why your labs appear so perplexing to the untrained eye.

You know I have seen these labs before so let me step up to the plate and validate you! You do have thyroid disease. Getting a doctor to recognize this and offer the correct medical intervention is the challenge right now.

That TSI (thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin) test would certainly confirm this if there is any TSI swilling about. You should have absolutely none.

Can you get this test?

Sending hugs,


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## Kaylasly (Nov 14, 2009)

Andros, thanks for your nice response. I called and talked with the doctor who is a thyroid specialist today. My GP tested my tpo
ab antibodies only and they were at 174, down from 216 on 12/3/09.
She recommended taking Selinium 200 mg as it is proven to lower antibodies. I am getting another blood test on Friday and I am going to have him check TSI. Is that all I need? She also tolde to up my thyroid dosage to 120 mg from 90mg. I take Erfa. I am hoping the eye doctor is wrong about this and that once my thyroid comes into a good range, it will go away. The eye doc says that it will take a year to go away. I have read that hypothyroid people will get TED when they are out of whack and once their numbers are ok the eyes will get better. It actually said that is more common than TED. I upped my dosage today. Please pray that it gets better!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Kaylasly said:


> Andros, thanks for your nice response. I called and talked with the doctor who is a thyroid specialist today. My GP tested my tpo
> ab antibodies only and they were at 174, down from 216 on 12/3/09.
> She recommended taking Selinium 200 mg as it is proven to lower antibodies. I am getting another blood test on Friday and I am going to have him check TSI. Is that all I need? She also tolde to up my thyroid dosage to 120 mg from 90mg. I take Erfa. I am hoping the eye doctor is wrong about this and that once my thyroid comes into a good range, it will go away. The eye doc says that it will take a year to go away. I have read that hypothyroid people will get TED when they are out of whack and once their numbers are ok the eyes will get better. It actually said that is more common than TED. I upped my dosage today. Please pray that it gets better!


I sure am praying for you; you can count on that.

For now, the TSI and whatever else the doc does for labs will be fine. Oh, I hope and pray he does the TSI. Then we will have a better sense of direction.

For now, do as the ophthalmologist suggests. Your eyes are precious.

Wow, you are going up 1/2 grain and I sure hope that kicks in for you and you feel waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.

Please let us know of your progress w/ the thyroid doc.


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## Kaylasly (Nov 14, 2009)

That is 12 grain? I thought it was only a half a grain. I sure hope I feel better soon. My eyes hurt and give me headaches. It is kind of weird though, they don't seem to be sticking out as much, I hope it is not just wishful thinking. This whole experience is really scary! I am hoping it is really just because my numbers were hypo and not truly TED. I have read that it can happen. Have you read that too?


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Kaylasly said:


> That is 12 grain? I thought it was only a half a grain. I sure hope I feel better soon. My eyes hurt and give me headaches. It is kind of weird though, they don't seem to be sticking out as much, I hope it is not just wishful thinking. This whole experience is really scary! I am hoping it is really just because my numbers were hypo and not truly TED. I have read that it can happen. Have you read that too?


That was a typo and I just now caught it and corrected it. Ha, ha! I don't think they could give a horse 12 grains, do you? Yikes!!

Yes, you can have TED with hypothyroid. Are you putting ice packs on your eyes? That helps a lot. Be sure to put a soft towel over your eyes and then the ice packs. Sleep w/ your head elevated also.

Yep, they call that Thyroid Eye Disease (TED) and then Graves' Eye Disease (GED.)

Hope the 1/2 grain increase kicks in and helps. But, traditionally, treating the thyroid does little to help the eyes to a certain degree.

Do you have headaches today?


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## BionicThyroid (Jan 29, 2010)

It seems when Hashi and Graves overlap it's like a Bipolar thyroid!!!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

BionicThyroid said:


> It seems when Hashi and Graves overlap it's like a Bipolar thyroid!!!


That is an awesome analogy. You should get a copyright on that one!


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## Kaylasly (Nov 14, 2009)

I have head pressure today and now that it is night time
my eyes are burning and I feel a headache coming on. I wish I could stop
freaking out about it. I am giving this thyroid dose a few days, if I am still anxious and freaking out, I am going to have to go on Lexapro.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Kaylasly said:


> I have head pressure today and now that it is night time
> my eyes are burning and I feel a headache coming on. I wish I could stop
> freaking out about it. I am giving this thyroid dose a few days, if I am still anxious and freaking out, I am going to have to go on Lexapro.


Use moisturizing drop and cooling packs on your eyes.........that should help...........a lot.

Let us know how you are today when you are able.


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## Kaylasly (Nov 14, 2009)

Ok, now I am really confused! I upped my
dosage and while I feel better, my heart is racing and I am getting more hot flashes. I woke up drenched in sweat last night. My t3 and t4 were in the basement so that is why we raised it. I am so confused and don't know what to do.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Kaylasly said:


> Ok, now I am really confused! I upped my
> dosage and while I feel better, my heart is racing and I am getting more hot flashes. I woke up drenched in sweat last night. My t3 and t4 were in the basement so that is why we raised it. I am so confused and don't know what to do.


Well, if you are in the throes of thyrotoxicosis, I don't think raising the thyroxine replacement is the thing to do here. No wonder your heart is beating out of your chest.

Have you called the doctor? I think you should relate to the doctor what is going on here.

Worried here.


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## Kaylasly (Nov 14, 2009)

I don't know if it is thyrotoxicosis??? Isn't that when your numbers are high? Mine were so low, i think when I try to raise I get anxiety. My heart isn't high all the time., only when I move around. I have been getting heart pain, hot flashes and tightness in the chest and head pressure and foggy feelin. I was tested for Graves today, should find out by early next week. I don't know if I told you this, but I am also going through menopause. My eyes hurt right now so I took ibprofin, they actually look a little better. I think I will start Lexapro this weekend. I can't take this anxiety anymore.


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## chopper (Mar 4, 2007)

Did you already start taking the Selenium? If so, STOP. I had a lot of trouble with it myself. Not sure what it does exactly but when I took it it through my body into a tailspin. It felt like it almost instantly sent me hyper.

Your last labs appear low, meaning you SHOULD require more hormone - according to your labs at least. BUT if you have Graves or Hashis you could be in the middle of a swing and the labs will always look normal even though you are hyper. It's crazy.

For me, I swing like a pendulum back and forth from hypo to hyper but my labs usually look pretty ok....It's like having 10 units on the hyper side and minus 10 units on the hypo side - the average result is zero even though you could be at 10 this moment.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Kaylasly said:


> I don't know if it is thyrotoxicosis??? Isn't that when your numbers are high? Mine were so low, i think when I try to raise I get anxiety. My heart isn't high all the time., only when I move around. I have been getting heart pain, hot flashes and tightness in the chest and head pressure and foggy feelin. I was tested for Graves today, should find out by early next week. I don't know if I told you this, but I am also going through menopause. My eyes hurt right now so I took ibprofin, they actually look a little better. I think I will start Lexapro this weekend. I can't take this anxiety anymore.


I thought in a previous post you said you thought you had Ha****oxicosis so I was referring to that. Oh dear.

What test did they run for Graves'? TSI is for hyperthyroid and Graves' is determined by clinical evaluation.

The patient must have 3 out of the 4 following clinical criteria....

Exophthalmos, Goiter, Pre-tibial Myxedema, Thyrotoxicosis.

Are you under a doctor's care for taking Lexapro?


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## Kaylasly (Nov 14, 2009)

I haven't started lexapro yet. My gp prescribed it. If this eye thing would just go away, I won't need it. I feel fine now, I could even deal with the eyes, except for the pressure above them. I am taking selinium, has anyone else taken it? My doc says it is proven to
lower antibodies.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Kaylasly said:


> I haven't started lexapro yet. My gp prescribed it. If this eye thing would just go away, I won't need it. I feel fine now, I could even deal with the eyes, except for the pressure above them. I am taking selinium, has anyone else taken it? My doc says it is proven to
> lower antibodies.


It does lower antibodies and it also encourages T4 to convert to T3 as our Administrator Nasdaqphil has pointed out so therefore could be making you more hyper.

Glad you are feeling a bit better. We look for those "moments!" Dang. We are all worried about you.


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## Kaylasly (Nov 14, 2009)

Should I stop taking it? This is the same doc that prescribed t3 to go along with my Erfa. She had me taking 5 mg of Cytomel with 3 30 mgs of Erfa. It was when I took the extra t3 that my eye problems started.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Kaylasly said:


> Should I stop taking it? This is the same doc that prescribed t3 to go along with my Erfa. She had me taking 5 mg of Cytomel with 3 30 mgs of Erfa. It was when I took the extra t3 that my eye problems started.


Lord have mercy, dear one. Not a single one of us here is a doctor. I think it best you call your doc come Monday morning and discuss these concerns w/ her. I really do!

It is true that sometimes some of us may be right on and the doctor waaaaaaaaaay wrong but as you know, we have no business "playing doctor" having not gone to medical school.

We can support you, provide information, make suggestions and encourage you to talk to your doctor or even find a better doctor but that is as far as it can go.


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## chopper (Mar 4, 2007)

I agree. Some cases are just outright complicated and others are plain and simple. Your case appears more complicated than not and add some additional meds into the mix, all of which react to one another differently, and it's time to have a good long conversation with your doc and lay it all out there for him or her.

If you doc is not willing to "go the extra mile" for you, then move on until you find one that works well with you.

Like Andros said, we've seen a lot of labs, read a lot of things online, researched and advocated and most of us have been through hell and back but none of us have MD's next to our names so it is important to speak with a doc at this point to get it all sorted out properly. You don't want to experiment when it comes to hormones.


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## Kaylasly (Nov 14, 2009)

Well, I am not sure that I want to take it now, maybe hold off for a few and then see. Meanwhile, the only other problem I am experiencing other than the eye thing, I forgot about this because I am laying down. But when I get up and move around my heart starts to raise. It is always worse early in the day. I just took blood pressure and it has a heart thing on it and it was 109. When I am laying down it is ok in the 70's. Has anyone else had this problem?


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Kaylasly said:


> Well, I am not sure that I want to take it now, maybe hold off for a few and then see. Meanwhile, the only other problem I am experiencing other than the eye thing, I forgot about this because I am laying down. But when I get up and move around my heart starts to raise. It is always worse early in the day. I just took blood pressure and it has a heart thing on it and it was 109. When I am laying down it is ok in the 70's. Has anyone else had this problem?


Wow!! There is no question but what something is causing a surge. Why do these things always happen on the weekend?


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## Kaylasly (Nov 14, 2009)

Oh no, it has happened every day for the last three months. Do you think it could be menopause?


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Kaylasly said:


> Oh no, it has happened every day for the last three months. Do you think it could be menopause?


If you are also in the throes of menopause, there would be no question but what it is playing a huge role. As I mentioned before, it is not unusual for menopause to trigger or even exacerbate an autoimmune disease.


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