# Lymph node discomfort?



## Abcdefg

I could be wrong, but I'm wondering if some pain I'm having (4 days now) and intermittent over the last year is caused by the cancer?

It's my armpits. I can feel swollen glands in there (so did my brother). In fact, you can SEE them. It's a burning, deep achy type of pain that is constant. I've taken Tylenol but it's not helping 

I first noticed this on/off over a year ago, and mentioned it to my doctor. When I had a mammo last fall, they also did an US on my left axilla. Never told me if they saw anything, but I know it's there. Lately, however, it's become painful to shave, and at all times it feels like there's a ping-pong ball between the pit and my side. Ouch.

I see the Endo tomorrow, and I'll have her take a look, but does anyone have any wisdom?


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## Octavia

I don't have any wisdom, but I think your instinct is correct. Definitely have the doctor take a good look. Honestly, I would go back and find out about that mammogram, too...what did they see?


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## joplin1975

I think I would request a copy of the mammo results too. I would absolutely ask about it but I also think it is very unlikely to be related to thyroid cancer.


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## Abcdefg

Octavia said:


> I don't have any wisdom, but I think your instinct is correct. Definitely have the doctor take a good look. Honestly, I would go back and find out about that mammogram, too...what did they see?


The mammo spotted a "dot". The radiologist had me do extra films and an US. The reason I had the mammo is because I have recurrent cysts in both breasts. I had a very large one (5.5cm) drained in 2009-and overnight it refilled. I mentioned to the ordering doc that another lump felt different- which is I suspect the dot they noticed. In fact, it was BIRADS 3. I'm on recall for a followup probably sometime next week (this mammo was Feb 2-so 6 months is now). As you know, they really don't tell you ANYTHING.

I checked with the GP's office on Friday to see if they had booked me in, but they were waiting for a callback.

To add: I've yet to hear from my GP regarding my Thyca. Turns out, she didn't even *know*. My mom goes to her also, and had an appt yesterday. She casually mentioned it to the doc to try and maybe get some info, and the doc was absolutely shocked. Apparently, she has not been copied on any of my reports, surgery or pathology. Mom said doc was very upset and started firing off emails to (I gather) the other physicians involved. I expect to hear from her office today. Probably my new diagnosis changes things with the breast issue.


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## Octavia

Abcdefg said:


> To add: I've yet to hear from my GP regarding my Thyca. Turns out, she didn't even *know*. My mom goes to her also, and had an appt yesterday. She casually mentioned it to the doc to try and maybe get some info, and the doc was absolutely shocked. Apparently, she has not been copied on any of my reports, surgery or pathology. Mom said doc was very upset and started firing off emails to (I gather) the other physicians involved. I expect to hear from her office today. Probably my new diagnosis changes things with the breast issue.


I had the same experience... at EVERY appointment, they verified my GP's name, and I assumed they were keeping her informed. Nope. When I went to her several months later for something unrelated to thyroid, she had no idea! (And I kept wondering why she never even called! Then I thought maybe I was expecting too much...turns out she never even knew.)

I'm with you on the breast stuff. I've had fibrocystic breast issues for years. It used to be SOOOOOO painful for at least a week leading up to my period (as in...don't even look at them, not to mention touch them!). Ugh. It's actually much, much better now, at least 90% better. Hopefully you'll see improvement there, too. My mammograms never showed anything, though. They were always done while my breasts were "normal."

Stay on top of it, girl!


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## Abcdefg

Octavia said:


> I had the same experience... at EVERY appointment, they verified my GP's name, and I assumed they were keeping her informed. Nope. When I went to her several months later for something unrelated to thyroid, she had no idea! (And I kept wondering why she never even called! Then I thought maybe I was expecting too much...turns out she never even knew.)
> 
> I'm with you on the breast stuff. I've had fibrocystic breast issues for years. It used to be SOOOOOO painful for at least a week leading up to my period (as in...don't even look at them, not to mention touch them!). Ugh. It's actually much, much better now, at least 90% better. Hopefully you'll see improvement there, too. My mammograms never showed anything, though. They were always done while my breasts were "normal."
> 
> Stay on top of it, girl!


Thanks. The worrying part about the pain, is I just finished my period a few days ago. So I'm not PMS'ing. And yes, I'm going to stay on top of The Stooges (nickname my brother gave for my group of doctors). I'm beginning to sense this stuff is only important to ME. I'm still stunned they didn't notify her though: she knew I was having surgery, because the week before I had that sore throat/voiceless thing that she treated me for. She's so busy though, and probably forgot to check on it.


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## Octavia

I absolutely think you should let your surgeon know about these swollen, painful lymph nodes.

Can they do a needle biopsy on one or two of them to get a better idea of what you're dealing with?


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## Abcdefg

Octavia said:


> I absolutely think you should let your surgeon know about these swollen, painful lymph nodes.
> 
> Can they do a needle biopsy on one or two of them to get a better idea of what you're dealing with?


They _could_ but I seriously doubt he will. Not sure I mentioned that last Monday when I saw him (for the wonderful news he had to pass on) that I mentioned how awful I was feeling. He basically yelled at me that I was being "ridiculous! It's a symptomless cancer. So absolutely NOT"

What he fails to realize is I *hate doctors*. I would never in a million years even have started this whole adventure had it not been for feeling like cr*p for a very long time.


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## joplin1975

Symptomless??? Wow.

I think I would consider following up with my GYN instead of my surgeon. I love my thyroid surgeon, but I doubt he'd biopsy the nodes in my arm pit. Just not in his wheelhouse, ya know?


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## Octavia

Abcdefg said:


> He basically yelled at me that I was being "ridiculous! It's a symptomless cancer. So absolutely NOT"
> 
> What he fails to realize is I *hate doctors*. I would never in a million years even have started this whole adventure had it not been for feeling like cr*p for a very long time.


Symptomless, my @$$! So....that would explain why so many of us report neck pain, trouble swallowing, pain when speaking, and overall feeling like doo-doo prior to our diagnosis???

I was just thinking the other night about something. My in-laws live about 2.5 hours away from us, and for a year or so, every time we would visit, I would feel SO rude because I would fall asleep on the couch, or in a chair, or just sneak off to a bedroom while everyone was visiting. (Who knows what they were thinking about me at the time!) I just chalked it up to working too much. But looking back, I was pretty stinking tired for a long time. I can't say I truly felt "sick," but I was tired a lot. I did what I needed to do (work-wise), but anything over and above that was definitely a chore. I'm much better now. Still take an occasional nap, but I can sure stay awake when I should be visiting people I don't see very often!

I am confident that your symptoms will improve, especially given that they don't exist!


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## Abcdefg

joplin1975 said:


> Symptomless??? Wow.
> 
> I think I would consider following up with my GYN instead of my surgeon. I love my thyroid surgeon, but I doubt he'd biopsy the nodes in my arm pit. Just not in his wheelhouse, ya know?


My gyno only does Vajayjay's. He doesn't do breast exams or whatnot at all. My GP would be the one to talk to.

And yes, fatigue has basically rendered me non-functional. I was working 2 jobs last winter (one graveyard shift-after working 8 hours at the other!). I chalked a lot of it up to overwork, but once I cut down to 1 job, the exhaustion only got worse. Endo poo-pooed it, Surgeon poo-pooed.

I see Endo tomorrow, and I'm going to tell her if she ever dismisses what I say again, she's fired.


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## Andros

Abcdefg said:


> I could be wrong, but I'm wondering if some pain I'm having (4 days now) and intermittent over the last year is caused by the cancer?
> 
> It's my armpits. I can feel swollen glands in there (so did my brother). In fact, you can SEE them. It's a burning, deep achy type of pain that is constant. I've taken Tylenol but it's not helping
> 
> I first noticed this on/off over a year ago, and mentioned it to my doctor. When I had a mammo last fall, they also did an US on my left axilla. Never told me if they saw anything, but I know it's there. Lately, however, it's become painful to shave, and at all times it feels like there's a ping-pong ball between the pit and my side. Ouch.
> 
> I see the Endo tomorrow, and I'll have her take a look, but does anyone have any wisdom?


Honey bunny; I hope the endo takes you seriously. It might be prudent for you to have an MRI or CAT scan.

Please please let us know if the endo follows up on this. We will all remain very concerned until we hear from you tomorrow sometime if you are able.


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## webster2

Abcdefg said:


> He basically yelled at me that I was being "ridiculous! It's a symptomless cancer. So absolutely NOT"


Are you able to find another doctor? This guy sounds like a beast. Best wishes to you!


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## Abcdefg

Andros said:


> Honey bunny; I hope the endo takes you seriously. It might be prudent for you to have an MRI or CAT scan.
> 
> Please please let us know if the endo follows up on this. We will all remain very concerned until we hear from you tomorrow sometime if you are able.


that's what I was thinking too. I took my kiddo to his Ped today, and told him about everything. He's very concerned that they're not investigating it enough. We're also planning on genetic testing on my boy as soon as I have an Onc for him to consult with.



> Are you able to find another doctor? This guy sounds like a beast. Best wishes to you!


that made me LOL. Thanks. The thing is, he's an amazing surgeon, just not much of a human being. Right before my first surgery, he make some poking remarks at me when I had the nerve to ask questions. Hey doctor, it's not nice to make fun of your patients or treat them like they're stupid. Grrr.


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## Bethany79

If your Gyno doesn't do breast exams change doctors. That is ridiculous. About 8 yrs ago I found 3 small lumps between my breast and armpit. In 1 months time they had grown to almost 3 cm each. Had mammo and U/S, and didn't even get to leave the radiologists office. Sent me right to a surgeon. I am high risk for breast cancer. Triple lumpectomy later, turned out to be massive purple lymph nodes. My surgeon never seen anything like it.

Anyway if your doctors aren't taking you seriously fire em. I hope you find answers soon.


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## webster2

Abcdefg said:


> that's what I was thinking too. I took my kiddo to his Ped today, and told him about everything. He's very concerned that they're not investigating it enough. We're also planning on genetic testing on my boy as soon as I have an Onc for him to consult with.
> 
> that made me LOL. Thanks. The thing is, he's an amazing surgeon, just not much of a human being. Right before my first surgery, he make some poking remarks at me when I had the nerve to ask questions. Hey doctor, it's not nice to make fun of your patients or treat them like they're stupid. Grrr.


Maybe they lack beside manner and compassion but make up for it with skill?

Last week I was at the doctor (kidney stones). I was seen by a resident and then the attending came in, and they spoke to each other but not me. I asked if they would speak English so I could understand. The look on their faces was priceless. I said my body and I want to know. I asked if they would have their tete a tete in the hallway and all things said in front of me, in layperson's terms, please. I am such a witch!

So, that you know this about your doc is a good thing. Skills first but wouldn't it be nice if they were nice! Best to you!


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## Abcdefg

Bethany79 said:


> If your Gyno doesn't do breast exams change doctors. That is ridiculous. About 8 yrs ago I found 3 small lumps between my breast and armpit. In 1 months time they had grown to almost 3 cm each. Had mammo and U/S, and didn't even get to leave the radiologists office. Sent me right to a surgeon. I am high risk for breast cancer. Triple lumpectomy later, turned out to be massive purple lymph nodes. My surgeon never seen anything like it.
> 
> Anyway if your doctors aren't taking you seriously fire em. I hope you find answers soon.


I think things are different in Canada. We need a referral everytime we need to see one, and they only refer you after a problem is found on US or pap test. I had to see this particular doc because I had fibroids, and needed an Ablation/Tubal. I had one recall for stitch removal, then never saw him again. I thought it odd he didn't do breast exams too-especially since I had that giant cyst at the time. My GP took care of that part.

Purple nodes? omg. I've been doing so much reading about them, but you never see anything about color.


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## Andros

Abcdefg said:


> They _could_ but I seriously doubt he will. Not sure I mentioned that last Monday when I saw him (for the wonderful news he had to pass on) that I mentioned how awful I was feeling. He basically yelled at me that I was being "ridiculous! It's a symptomless cancer. So absolutely NOT"
> 
> What he fails to realize is I *hate doctors*. I would never in a million years even have started this whole adventure had it not been for feeling like cr*p for a very long time.


Here is some info. You "need" to know so you can push to help yourself. There is a direct connection. Please don't allow them to fluff you off.

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers.

http://www.breastcancer.org/risk/new_research/20080312b.jsp

http://www.canceractive.com/cancer-active-page-link.aspx?n=1671

I sincerly hope you don't but if you do, we have to know it so medical intervention can take place.


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## Abcdefg

Thank you for the links . I'd be lying if that thought hadn't occurred to me. Today has been a rough day. I've had 2 panic attacks already this morning-due to the constant stress and the fear that they won't treat me properly.

I leave for my appt in about an hour, and I''ll be sure to update when I get home.


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## Abcdefg

Pointless visit. All she did was confirm my diagnosis (which had been sent for a 2nd opinion- still same variant, but determined to be a 1cm cancer within the larger hyperplastic tumour). Said I'm Stage 1 until if/when they determine the degree of metastasis, then handed me a pamphlet. I was crying by this time- I guess somewhere I had hoped it was all a mistake, even though I knew it wasn't. She didn't have much to say to comfort me, and actually shocked me further by saying I was being referred to the provincial Cancer Agency and she was no longer involved.

HUH?? I had no idea it worked that way, but apparently once cancer goes on the books, the Gov't agency takes over treatment. What this means now is I'm on ANOTHER wait list. Best guess she could give me was they would contact me sometime in Sept or early Oct to discuss possible RAI and meds.

I caught that as meaning: good luck, hope you survive without Synthroid for upt to 3 or 4 months. It's in my file that I will NOT be given any meds after surgery-that the agency is responsible for administering and monitoring. This is horrible news. I freaked at that point. The best she could do was write out a standing order for TSH testing, and if my levels come back over 100 she would "recommend" starting me on it. Let's hope i don't die in the meantime. 4 months no meds??????? OMFG

If it comes to that at time of surgery, I'm refusing it. There is no way in heck I'm putting myself through it. I can't believe this is the standard when elsewhere (even in 3rd world countries) that you start meds within 6 weeks at the outset.

Have to say all this visit did was exacerbate my anxiety- which by the way is out of control and I'm having recurrent panic attacks. She also refused to prescribe anything for it.


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## Abcdefg

Ugh, re-reading what I wrote, I'm embarrassed. Yesterday was not a good day. I'm going to go beg my GP today to help with the panic- if I'm going to deal with this cancer, it can't be while hyperventilating constantly.

I'm still confused about the treatment plan though-it just seems so relaxed (if that's the right word). There's no urgency at all . I for SURE do not want to be hypo for months, so I'm going to fight to get Thyrogen, and be put on meds after the surgery. I need to be able to function to take care of my child.


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## joplin1975

First, don't be embarrassed. It's kinda freaky thinking about some thing growing in your neck, ya know?

Second, I don't know how things work in Canada so I can't offer any great suggestions, but I think it is important for you to know that RAI can be done, effectively, much sooner than when your TSH gets to 100. My doctor wanted it, minimally, to get to 35-40ish. After two weeks, mine was 71.

Third, I'll tell you my TSH got up to 121 for a while and it was unpleasant...I wouldn't recommend it. BUT, I will also say, if you eat well, stay hydrated, get lots of sleep and treat yourself very very very well, it is manageable. Things are harder for you because you've got a kiddo to attend to, but it won't be impossible. I never missed a day of work nor a deadline and fed my horses/did barn chores every day twice a day...took business trips, etc. I just felt blah, got bloated, and had muscle pain. I only say this because obtaining thyrogen is tough and I don't want you to think you can't do it all if you can't get it.


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## Abcdefg

joplin1975 said:


> First, don't be embarrassed. It's kinda freaky thinking about some thing growing in your neck, ya know?
> 
> Second, I don't know how things work in Canada so I can't offer any great suggestions, but I think it is important for you to know that RAI can be done, effectively, much sooner than when your TSH gets to 100. My doctor wanted it, minimally, to get to 35-40ish. After two weeks, mine was 71.
> 
> Third, I'll tell you my TSH got up to 121 for a while and it was unpleasant...I wouldn't recommend it. BUT, I will also say, if you eat well, stay hydrated, get lots of sleep and treat yourself very very very well, it is manageable. Things are harder for you because you've got a kiddo to attend to, but it won't be impossible. I never missed a day of work nor a deadline and fed my horses/did barn chores every day twice a day...took business trips, etc. I just felt blah, got bloated, and had muscle pain. I only say this because obtaining thyrogen is tough and I don't want you to think you can't do it all if you can't get it.


Thank you. I'm starting to consider you my "rock" :hugs:

Well, the 100 tsh thing was more of her saying she'd intervene to have me medicated with something while I waited for RAI. I was given a ballpark of late Nov or Dec for it- if they deem me needing it at all. Which we won't know until they decide to meet with me and (hopefully) run tests. It's all very mysterious.

Even now, my energy level on a 1/10 scale is a 3. And I've always been an 11. I'm finding it difficult to get dressed, feed myself or take care of the house. Those moments I have the getupandgo I use on son (who is special needs btw-Autism and ADHD). He requires constant supervision and safekeeping. That's the part that worries me. .


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## Andros

Abcdefg said:


> Thank you. I'm starting to consider you my "rock" :hugs:
> 
> Well, the 100 tsh thing was more of her saying she'd intervene to have me medicated with something while I waited for RAI. I was given a ballpark of late Nov or Dec for it- if they deem me needing it at all. Which we won't know until they decide to meet with me and (hopefully) run tests. It's all very mysterious.
> 
> Even now, my energy level on a 1/10 scale is a 3. And I've always been an 11. I'm finding it difficult to get dressed, feed myself or take care of the house. Those moments I have the getupandgo I use on son (who is special needs btw-Autism and ADHD). He requires constant supervision and safekeeping. That's the part that worries me. .


Joplin is a major rock!! She has given greatly of herself and we all adore and appreciate her hard work on this board.


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## Abcdefg

I have my US this morning, and will ask them to go over my axilla nodes thoroughly. The left arm is still painful, and you can clearly see a lump under there . I hope I can talk to the radiologist after, but that's not the usual protocol. I'll probably have to wait a week for the results.


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## Andros

Abcdefg said:


> I have my US this morning, and will ask them to go over my axilla nodes thoroughly. The left arm is still painful, and you can clearly see a lump under there . I hope I can talk to the radiologist after, but that's not the usual protocol. I'll probably have to wait a week for the results.


Glad you are getting it done but this slo mo stuff is agonal. I hate you have to wait so long.

I am sorry you are in pain also!


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## Octavia

Abcdefg said:


> I have my US this morning, and will ask them to go over my axilla nodes thoroughly. The left arm is still painful, and you can clearly see a lump under there . I hope I can talk to the radiologist after, but that's not the usual protocol. I'll probably have to wait a week for the results.


Good. Leave no stone unturned, and no lump un-ultrasounded. Hoping you have answers soon.

:hugs:


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## Abcdefg

Andros said:


> Glad you are getting it done but this slo mo stuff is agonal. I hate you have to wait so long.
> 
> I am sorry you are in pain also!


Thanks hun. I hate the waiting....

Oh, as of yesterday I still hadn't heard from the Cancer Agency. Out of curiosity I phoned the surgeon's office to inquire which of the 5 locations they had referred me to. The answer I got was they HADN'T. He apparently forgot to write the order.*eyeroll*. Luckily though, the Endo put a referral through (she had told me she would but she was 2 weeks behind the surgeon). Good thing I had asked her to do it, or I'd be stuck in limbo forever. Apparently it takes 2 or 3 weeks for the agency to call you to schedule your first appointment. I was hoping to be seen before my surgery, but that's looking unlikely.

Can't help but wonder how many screwups are in store.


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## Abcdefg

So I had the ultrasound. It took over an hour. The tech took 5 pages of images, and measured over ... get this.... *50 cysts.*. I knew I was loaded with them, but having experience now watching for cysts/tumours, I was a bit freaked out by the "complex" cysts she found. Several had blood flow on the doppler. Not looking good. Ugh. The left arm (the sore one with the big cysts) has 3 adjoining cysts, each measuring over 2.5 cm each. She commented that is why I'm feeling pain-they're so large and close together, that essentially they're smashing my boob. She scanned both armpits, and strangely enough, the right pit had the obvious lymph nodes (and I could see they were solid).

This is looking worse by the day. Is there a chance the Thyca has spread there? or am I looking at Braca? I asked when my doc would have the results, she said a week. Yikes.


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## Octavia

Ugh. I'm so glad you got this ultrasound done!

Yes, there's a chance the thyca has spread, but of course you'll need to explore the other possibilities as well.

Refresh my memory...have you had a body scan at all yet?


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## Abcdefg

Octavia said:


> Ugh. I'm so glad you got this ultrasound done!
> 
> Yes, there's a chance the thyca has spread, but of course you'll need to explore the other possibilities as well.
> 
> Refresh my memory...have you had a body scan at all yet?


Nope, no body scan or recent US on my neck (or a scan EVER of my neck lymph nodes). The dr's aren't in any hurry to see how invasive this cancer is


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## joplin1975

Ugh, I'm just catching up but holy cow...no wonder it hurt so badly.

From Cedar Sinai: 


> Papillary tumors often spread to lymph glands in the neck (metastasis), but rarely spread to distant organs.
> The lungs, liver and bones are typically the most common sites of distant metastasis.


http://www.cedars-sinai.edu/Patients/Health-Conditions/Thyroid-Cancer.aspx

I hope you get some answers soon!


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## Octavia

Abcdefg said:


> Nope, no body scan or recent US on my neck (or a scan EVER of my neck lymph nodes). The dr's aren't in any hurry to see how invasive this cancer is


Well, in that case, I would recommend a scan BEFORE your RAI, if possible. If you've got thyroid cancer well beyond the obvious places in your neck, that would mean you'd need to be more aggressive with your RAI dose.

At the very least, you should be getting a full body scan about 3 days after your treatment dose of RAI to see what you're dealing with. But truly, I hope you can get a scan before the RAI so you and your docs know whether you need a more hefty dose to kill additional tumors.


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## Abcdefg

I hope in 3 weeks at my surgery, he gets as much as possible. I keep thinking he's going to do the bare minimum.

I did some research on RAI, and for distant spread they nuke you with 200mic. Yikes. But if that's what's needed to avoid doing it twice...


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## Octavia

Abcdefg said:


> I did some research on RAI, and for distant spread they nuke you with 200mic. Yikes. But if that's what's needed to avoid doing it twice...


Exactly. That's why, with the "evidence" you're dealing with, it's important to know if that distant stuff is thyroid-related or not. Then your plan can be adjusted accordingly. Sounds like you get it...hopefully your doc does, too!


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## Abcdefg

I got my US results yesterday. They've rated me BIRADS 3, and suggest follow up Mammo/US again in Feb. They apparently found 3 Intramammary lymph nodes in my right breast (? weren't there this past Feb) that are "suggestive of benign but must be closely monitored). They range from 6mm-9mm. It's an uncommon finding, and though the Dr wasn't worried, I am. This is in addition to the multiple complicated cysts found everywhere. No mention of possible aspiration of the large cluster on the left-which I want drained as it's uncomfy. The report on the axilla says "no signifigant lymphadenopathy". I'm not too clear on whether this means they found some, or not?

Seeing as I'm 40, they've recommended yearly mammo's. I think I might ask for a referral to a breast surgeon and see what they say. The stress of this all the time is just ugh.


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## joplin1975

I have no idea. I'm so sorry.

Just a random thought or something maybe you might want to look into...my old assistant and thyroid nodules and went 'round and 'round with them...had a bunch of other issues as well. Finally went to Mass General to some kind of integrative health clinic (panel??) where they looked at everything and dx'ed her polycystic disease. I don't know much about it, but again, it might be worth googling??

Thinking about you!


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## Andros

Abcdefg said:


> I got my US results yesterday. They've rated me BIRADS 3, and suggest follow up Mammo/US again in Feb. They apparently found 3 Intramammary lymph nodes in my right breast (? weren't there this past Feb) that are "suggestive of benign but must be closely monitored). They range from 6mm-9mm. It's an uncommon finding, and though the Dr wasn't worried, I am. This is in addition to the multiple complicated cysts found everywhere. No mention of possible aspiration of the large cluster on the left-which I want drained as it's uncomfy. The report on the axilla says "no signifigant lymphadenopathy". I'm not too clear on whether this means they found some, or not?
> 
> Seeing as I'm 40, they've recommended yearly mammo's. I think I might ask for a referral to a breast surgeon and see what they say. The stress of this all the time is just ugh.


The word "suggestive" leaves a lot to be desired. It's also quite amazing that you have been fluffed off so many times about this. You knew something was wrong. Who would know their body better than the owner of that body.

For Pete's sakes.


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