# Nature-throid



## Sharon

Does anyone have any experience with Nature-Throid? Is it better than armour? My doctor may switch me but he wants more information on Nature-Throid. I don't want to go back to levothyroxine.
Thanks,
Sharon


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## Andros

Sharon said:


> Does anyone have any experience with Nature-Throid? Is it better than armour? My doctor may switch me but he wants more information on Nature-Throid. I don't want to go back to levothyroxine.
> Thanks,
> Sharon


I personally have not. I do well on Armour and would not dream of changing.

Are you on Armour now? Why would you want to change?


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## Sharon

Andros said:


> I personally have not. I do well on Armour and would not dream of changing.
> 
> Are you on Armour now? Why would you want to change?


Andros,
Yes, I was on Armour. In my post "swollen neck" I was telling how sick I was getting. I still can't get into my doctor or any other for that matter. I stopped taking the Armour and the symptoms went away. The only symptom that didn't was the thryroid swelling. I want to switch so I can begin to feel better.
Sharon


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## BuffyFan

What's the difference between nature-throid and armour?? I know a lot of people that are on armour chew up their tablets but I think that's gross. They are saying that armour works better when it is chewed or crushed up rather than take it whole. I have not tried it so I don't know if there's any truth to it.


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## Andros

Sharon said:


> Andros,
> Yes, I was on Armour. In my post "swollen neck" I was telling how sick I was getting. I still can't get into my doctor or any other for that matter. I stopped taking the Armour and the symptoms went away. The only symptom that didn't was the thryroid swelling. I want to switch so I can begin to feel better.
> Sharon


Oh, yes.................thank you for reminding me of your medical history.

When you were on T4 only, did you have this happen? And give some thought to the possibility that simultaneously something may be going on w/your thyroid.

Have you had a sonogram or RAIU (radioactive uptake scan?)

Have you added any new supplements? Are you taking iodine in anything including fresh seafood, Krill Oil.................anything like that?

Any new meds on the scene? Exposure to a lot of chlorine such as swimming pool or exposure to pesticides?


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## lavender

I have been on Armour since December, and had a few months where my thyroid levels really bottomed out suddenly. My doc thought I had a bad batch of Armour, and I went back to a dose I was on before I went hypo. I got impatient and asked my doc to write a script for Nature-Thyroid. I took it for 3 days, and then got some labs back that indicated the change in Armour dose had been working. I wasn't feeling much different from the Nature-Thyroid, and noticed my fingers swelling like they do when I go hypo, so I decided just to go back to the Armour, and it seems to be working better at this dose.

From what I read, basically Nature-Thyriod is just Armour from a different manufacturer with less potentially irritating ingredients. I have seen ingredient lists side by side somewhere, and there wasn't much difference. From my 3 day stint on Nature-thyroid, I felt that Armour worked better, but maybe i didn't give it long enough. I just hate sticking with a med when I start to see my fingers puff up.

I had to go to the local compounding pharmacy to get Nature Thyroid because none of the chain stores carry it, even though they carry Armour. Funny thing was that although it cost more than Armour, I paid less because my insurance covered it as a generic while Armour is considered brand!


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## Sharon

Andros said:


> Oh, yes.................thank you for reminding me of your medical history.
> 
> When you were on T4 only, did you have this happen? And give some thought to the possibility that simultaneously something may be going on w/your thyroid.
> 
> Have you had a sonogram or RAIU (radioactive uptake scan?)
> 
> Have you added any new supplements? Are you taking iodine in anything including fresh seafood, Krill Oil.................anything like that?
> 
> Any new meds on the scene? Exposure to a lot of chlorine such as swimming pool or exposure to pesticides?


My throat was starting to feel like I was being choked before I was on Levothyroxine. I was getting terrible headaches, severe joint swelling and pain, and the list went on. The only thing new is Enteric Coated Fish Oil. But all this stuff was starting to happen before this. I do think something was going on with my thyroid before this. I was trying to tell my doctor this on my last visit. All he could say was that he didn't think the thyroid caused all of this.  At that point I knew he quit listening. I truly believe all they care about is the money. No sonogram or RAIU. He wouldn't even run the free T3 again. He said "I just don't do it". No chlorine or exposure to pesticides. My husband tried talking to this doctor yesterday when he was at the office (because the doctor checked the wrong box for a blood test he had to have the other day - so he had to go back yesterday). The doctor said he felt I could wait a few more weeks! My husband told him that if he could see me he wouldn't say that.
I'm beginning to think I need a holistic doctor.


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## Sharon

lavender said:


> I have been on Armour since December, and had a few months where my thyroid levels really bottomed out suddenly. My doc thought I had a bad batch of Armour, and I went back to a dose I was on before I went hypo. I got impatient and asked my doc to write a script for Nature-Thyroid. I took it for 3 days, and then got some labs back that indicated the change in Armour dose had been working. I wasn't feeling much different from the Nature-Thyroid, and noticed my fingers swelling like they do when I go hypo, so I decided just to go back to the Armour, and it seems to be working better at this dose.
> 
> From what I read, basically Nature-Thyriod is just Armour from a different manufacturer with less potentially irritating ingredients. I have seen ingredient lists side by side somewhere, and there wasn't much difference. From my 3 day stint on Nature-thyroid, I felt that Armour worked better, but maybe i didn't give it long enough. I just hate sticking with a med when I start to see my fingers puff up.
> 
> I had to go to the local compounding pharmacy to get Nature Thyroid because none of the chain stores carry it, even though they carry Armour. Funny thing was that although it cost more than Armour, I paid less because my insurance covered it as a generic while Armour is considered brand!


I've read the same as you have about the ingredients. That's why I asked for it. I believe it's the binders and fillers in Armour that are partially the reason why I'm sick. It's miserable when the fingers swell up. My kept getting worse and it was also making my foot and ankle swell.


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## HeidiBR

Is it possible that you are underdosed? The symptoms you are describing are hypothyroid symptoms: swelling,water retention, choking feeling. Is it possible that you are not on enough replacement medication? When that happens and you give your body a little bit, it can get lazy and say, "Hey, you're giving me some med. why should I bother producing any at all?" I know when I first started on Synthroid I swelled up like a balloon the first week for that very reason (so said my doctor).


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## Sharon

HeidiBR said:


> Is it possible that you are underdosed? The symptoms you are describing are hypothyroid symptoms: swelling,water retention, choking feeling. Is it possible that you are not on enough replacement medication? When that happens and you give your body a little bit, it can get lazy and say, "Hey, you're giving me some med. why should I bother producing any at all?" I know when I first started on Synthroid I swelled up like a balloon the first week for that very reason (so said my doctor).


Yes, it's possible. I have hashimoto's/hypothyroid. Everything got worse after he increased the Armour to 30mg. Maybe because it isn't enough. The way you explained things about not getting enough of the Armour makes sense. I'm afraid to take another Armour because of all this. One of the many strange things is when I get up in the morning my stomach normal size as soon as I take a sip of water or coffee or take a bite of something my stomach bloats like crazy. It's depressing how hard it is to find a doctor in this area.


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## lavender

I'm not convinced there's a huge difference between Armour and Nature Thyroid. It's possible you were allergic to something in Armour that's not in Nature-Thyroid, but with all the reformulations, the binders are the same. It's really a matter of preference as far as I can tell. If you have a similar reaction to Nature-thyroid, you may just not do well on dessicated thyroid. There's also the possibility of taking synthroid in combination with Cytomel to add some T3 therapy.


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## HeidiBR

She had the same reaction from Synthroid, too, so whatever it is doesn't seem like it is just related to dessicated.


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## Andros

Sharon said:


> My throat was starting to feel like I was being choked before I was on Levothyroxine. I was getting terrible headaches, severe joint swelling and pain, and the list went on. The only thing new is Enteric Coated Fish Oil. But all this stuff was starting to happen before this. I do think something was going on with my thyroid before this. I was trying to tell my doctor this on my last visit. All he could say was that he didn't think the thyroid caused all of this.  At that point I knew he quit listening. I truly believe all they care about is the money. No sonogram or RAIU. He wouldn't even run the free T3 again. He said "I just don't do it". No chlorine or exposure to pesticides. My husband tried talking to this doctor yesterday when he was at the office (because the doctor checked the wrong box for a blood test he had to have the other day - so he had to go back yesterday). The doctor said he felt I could wait a few more weeks! My husband told him that if he could see me he wouldn't say that.
> I'm beginning to think I need a holistic doctor.


Well.....................let me say this, " You definitely need a new doctor!" How dare he say he doesn't run those labs. Are you kidding me? Your veterinarian runs those labs, for gawd's sakes!!

I think the doctor is your problem, I really do. And I know you have a problem; this is not all in your head.

Please, for your sake, I urge you to get a better doctor. And what if you have thyroid cancer??? You need at the very very least, the proper lab tests for thyroglobulin Ab and a sonogram.

TSI (thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin),TPO (antimicrosomal antibodies) TBII (thyrotropin-binding inhibitory immunoglobulin), Thyroglobulin Ab, ANA (antinuclear antibodies), (thyroid hormone panel) TSH, Free T3, Free T4.

You can look this stuff up here and more.........
http://www.labtestsonline.org/

Do you know what a dolt is? That's what I think of your current doctor. I don't usually say such unkind things as you well know but I am angry. I am angry for you!


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## Sharon

lavender said:


> I'm not convinced there's a huge difference between Armour and Nature Thyroid. It's possible you were allergic to something in Armour that's not in Nature-Thyroid, but with all the reformulations, the binders are the same. It's really a matter of preference as far as I can tell. If you have a similar reaction to Nature-thyroid, you may just not do well on dessicated thyroid. There's also the possibility of taking synthroid in combination with Cytomel to add some T3 therapy.


I found the following information about the formulations of Armour here http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14846 (please remove the link if I shouldn't post it):

Forest Laboratories, the drug company producing Armour Thyroid had changed the fillers

They changed the formulation from high dextrose and little cellulose to the high cellulose and hardly any dextrose

Armour was purchased by Forrest back in 1991 but continued to be made by Armour until 1996.

OLD FORMULATION (pre-1996)
Thyroid Powder USP
Anhydrous Dextrose -derived from cornstarch
***dropped in 1996 Mineral Oil NF 
Calcium Stearate, NF - derived from beef tallow

Forrest started making Armour in 1996 & at the same time reformulated it.
It was then that Microcrystalline Cellulose (albeit a small amount only) was first added.
Mineral Oil was also dropped & Calcium Stearate & Opadry white added as well.
Note how much Dextrose & Cellulose was in the product!!!

REFORMULATION (post-1996)
Thyroid Powder USP
43.7mg Anhydrous Dextrose - derived from cornstarch
Calcium Stearate NF ***derived from beef tallow
***added 1996 7.7mg Microcrystalline Cellulose-derived from wood pulp
***added 1996 Sodium Starch Glycolate NF 
***added 1996 Opadry White (titanium dioxide) -also contains trace amounts of PEG (polyethylene glycol), Polysorbate 80, and Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose.

Then Forrest reformualted in 2008/09 again.
This time there were no change to the ingreadients BUT there was a cvhange to the AMOUNT of Dextrose & Microcrystalline Cellulose.

REFORMULATION (post 2008/9)
Thyroid Powder USP
5mg Anhydrous Dextrose - derived from cornstarch
Calcium Stearate NF - derived from beef tallow
45mg Microcrystalline Cellulose - derived from wood pulp
Sodium Starch Glycolate NF 
Opadry White (titanium dioxide) - also contains trace amounts of PEG (polyethylene glycol), Polysorbate 80, and Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose.

So the difference in Pre 2008/09 & post 2008/09 Armour is 
1/ Reduced Dextrose by 38.7mg
2/ Increased Microcrystalline Cellulose by 37.3mg


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## Sharon

[quote name='Andros']Well.....................let me say this, " You definitely need a new doctor!" How dare he say he doesn't run those labs. Are you kidding me? Your veterinarian runs those labs, for gawd's sakes!!

I think the doctor is your problem, I really do. And I know you have a problem; this is not all in your head.

Please, for your sake, I urge you to get a better doctor. And what if you have thyroid cancer??? You need at the very very least, the proper lab tests for thyroglobulin Ab and a sonogram.

TSI (thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin),TPO (antimicrosomal antibodies) TBII (thyrotropin-binding inhibitory immunoglobulin), Thyroglobulin Ab, ANA (antinuclear antibodies), (thyroid hormone panel) TSH, Free T3, Free T4.

You can look this stuff up here and more.........
http://www.labtestsonline.org/

Do you know what a dolt is? That's what I think of your current doctor. I don't usually say such unkind things as you well know but I am angry. I am angry for you!

You're right about our vet running those labs. Our little dog has thyroid problems and he's always checking her. He first realized she had problem because her skin was itchy.

My husband and I are so angry we can scream. There is an integrated doctor I spoke to yesterday that knew right off the bat what's wrong. The problem is our insurance won't cover anything because he isn't in their network and we aren't made of money and can't afford to pay for everything out of my pocket.

Yes, I know what a dolt is. All I can say is that you're a lot kinder than I have been about him.

Believe me, I've been thinking about what if I have cancer. With all the symptoms and the way my throat hurts and has been swelling has me worried to death. I'm just having a terrible time finding anybody that's worth a darn. I'll be searching again today.

I have a question about the blood tests. What lab online do people use when they pay for these labs themselves? Would the ones you mentioned above be all I need to run?

Thank you Andros


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## lavender

It is possible to find a doc who takes insurance and competently treats thyroid patients, but is sometimes difficult. I do not get labs run on my own because I can not afford them, I don't see the point in running a bunch of labs without a doc to help me interpret them, and I think its important to have a relationship with a doc who is willing to run or at least discuss whatever labs I ask for. I'm still working on that relationship myself.

It does sound like your doc has been less than helpful and seeking another opinion may be in your best interest. I talked with friends to get an idea of who they were seeing and the kind of medical practice I was looking for. I see an integrative medicine doc who is fully covered by insurance. My experience with docs who do not take insurance and work on a cash (or charge) only basis has not bee good. More that they were a scam than anything else.

Just be aware that both Armour and Nature Thyroid have changed their formulations. I went to the web sites for both Armour and Nature Thyroid to look up ingredients. When I have read complaints about Armour, it's usually about the Microcrystalline Cellulose, which is in both.

Armour lists: 38 mcg levothyroxine (T4) 9 mcg liothyronine (T3) per grain of thyroid. The inactive ingredients are calcium stearate, dextrose, microcrystalline cellulose, sodium starch glycolate and opadry white.
Nature Thyroid lists: 38 mcg levothyroxine (T4) and 9 mcg liothyronine (T3) for each 65 mg (1 Grain) of the labeled content of thyroid, 
Inactive Ingredients are Colloidal Silicon Dioxide, Dicalcium Phosphate, Lactose Monohydrate*, Magnesium Stearate, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Croscarmellose Sodium, Stearic Acid, Opadry II 85F19316 Clear.


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## Andros

Sharon said:


> Andros said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well.....................let me say this, " You definitely need a new doctor!" How dare he say he doesn't run those labs. Are you kidding me? Your veterinarian runs those labs, for gawd's sakes!!
> 
> I think the doctor is your problem, I really do. And I know you have a problem; this is not all in your head.
> 
> Please, for your sake, I urge you to get a better doctor. And what if you have thyroid cancer??? You need at the very very least, the proper lab tests for thyroglobulin Ab and a sonogram.
> 
> TSI (thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin),TPO (antimicrosomal antibodies) TBII (thyrotropin-binding inhibitory immunoglobulin), Thyroglobulin Ab, ANA (antinuclear antibodies), (thyroid hormone panel) TSH, Free T3, Free T4.
> 
> You can look this stuff up here and more.........
> http://www.labtestsonline.org/
> 
> Do you know what a dolt is? That's what I think of your current doctor. I don't usually say such unkind things as you well know but I am angry. I am angry for you!
> 
> You're right about our vet running those labs. Our little dog has thyroid problems and he's always checking her. He first realized she had problem because her skin was itchy.
> 
> My husband and I are so angry we can scream. There is an integrated doctor I spoke to yesterday that knew right off the bat what's wrong. The problem is our insurance won't cover anything because he isn't in their network and we aren't made of money and can't afford to pay for everything out of my pocket.
> 
> Yes, I know what a dolt is. All I can say is that you're a lot kinder than I have been about him.
> 
> Believe me, I've been thinking about what if I have cancer. With all the symptoms and the way my throat hurts and has been swelling has me worried to death. I'm just having a terrible time finding anybody that's worth a darn. I'll be searching again today.
> 
> I have a question about the blood tests. What lab online do people use when they pay for these labs themselves? Would the ones you mentioned above be all I need to run?
> 
> Thank you Andros
> 
> 
> 
> Just know that you don't need a specialist. All you need is one doctor (GP or Internal) who cares about getting you the proper tests and getting you well. Even your dentist could do this.
> 
> When you tell me the reaction you get from taking thyroxine, it does make me think you should be checked for cancer. Yes, Indeed.
> 
> Thyroid cancer symptoms
> http://www.cityofhope.org/patient_care/treatments/thyroid-cancer/Pages/symptoms.aspx
Click to expand...


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## Sharon

lavender said:


> It is possible to find a doc who takes insurance and competently treats thyroid patients, but is sometimes difficult. I do not get labs run on my own because I can not afford them, I don't see the point in running a bunch of labs without a doc to help me interpret them, and I think its important to have a relationship with a doc who is willing to run or at least discuss whatever labs I ask for. I'm still working on that relationship myself.
> 
> It does sound like your doc has been less than helpful and seeking another opinion may be in your best interest. I talked with friends to get an idea of who they were seeing and the kind of medical practice I was looking for. I see an integrative medicine doc who is fully covered by insurance. My experience with docs who do not take insurance and work on a cash (or charge) only basis has not bee good. More that they were a scam than anything else.
> 
> Just be aware that both Armour and Nature Thyroid have changed their formulations. I went to the web sites for both Armour and Nature Thyroid to look up ingredients. When I have read complaints about Armour, it's usually about the Microcrystalline Cellulose, which is in both.
> 
> Armour lists: 38 mcg levothyroxine (T4) 9 mcg liothyronine (T3) per grain of thyroid. The inactive ingredients are calcium stearate, dextrose, microcrystalline cellulose, sodium starch glycolate and opadry white.
> Nature Thyroid lists: 38 mcg levothyroxine (T4) and 9 mcg liothyronine (T3) for each 65 mg (1 Grain) of the labeled content of thyroid,
> Inactive Ingredients are Colloidal Silicon Dioxide, Dicalcium Phosphate, Lactose Monohydrate*, Magnesium Stearate, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Croscarmellose Sodium, Stearic Acid, Opadry II 85F19316 Clear.


I've been looking for doctors on my insurance website. Everyone they list as taking patients aren't. So I'm striking out.
You're right, my doctor is less than helpful.


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## Sharon

Andros said:


> Sharon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just know that you don't need a specialist. All you need is one doctor (GP or Internal) who cares about getting you the proper tests and getting you well. Even your dentist could do this.
> 
> When you tell me the reaction you get from taking thyroxine, it does make me think you should be checked for cancer. Yes, Indeed.
> 
> Thyroid cancer symptoms
> http://www.cityofhope.org/patient_care/treatments/thyroid-cancer/Pages/symptoms.aspx
> 
> 
> 
> The symptoms they list at city of hope certainly sounds like me. I'm really frustrated trying to get into a doctor around here. Anyone worth anything aren't taking any patients.
Click to expand...


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## Andros

Sharon said:


> Andros said:
> 
> 
> 
> The symptoms they list at city of hope certainly sounds like me. I'm really frustrated trying to get into a doctor around here. Anyone worth anything aren't taking any patients.
> 
> 
> 
> What state do you live in? See if there is a Yahoo Thyroid Group in your area. We have one here in Ga. and boy, these gals know every doctor, good and bad.
> 
> Keeping you in prayer for this, Sharon. We do have a situation here. We have got to find you a doctor.
Click to expand...


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## Sharon

Andros said:


> Sharon said:
> 
> 
> 
> What state do you live in? See if there is a Yahoo Thyroid Group in your area. We have one here in Ga. and boy, these gals know every doctor, good and bad.
> 
> Keeping you in prayer for this, Sharon. We do have a situation here. We have got to find you a doctor.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I live in TN. I'll go look for a group right now.
> Thank you for the prayers!
Click to expand...


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## HeidiBR

The key for me was to actually call endos and ask point blank: "does the doctor rely on TSH only for treatment? Does he treat according to symptoms in addition to TSH? Does he run Free T3 and Free T4 tests? Is he willing to prescribe Armour? Cytomel?" That is how I found my endo. It is a lot of calling around. But worth it.

Another option is to ask: use a site like http://www.city-data.com/ (please remove this link if not allowed) and post and ask for recommendations for open-minded endos and primaries and nurse practicioners who treat thyroid patients.

Here is a list of thyroid docs in TN recommended by a leading thyroid patient advocate:
http://thyroid.about.com/gi/o.htm?z...p://www.thyroid-info.com/topdrs/tennessee.htm

Again, please remove the link if not allowed.


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## Andros

HeidiBR said:


> The key for me was to actually call endos and ask point blank: "does the doctor reply on TSH only for treatment? Does he treat according to symptoms in addition to TSH? Does he run Free T3 and Free T4 tests? Is he willing to prescribe Armour? Cytomel?" That is how I found my endo. It is a lot of calling around. But worth it.
> 
> Another option is to ask: use a site like http://www.city-data.com/ (please remove this link if not allowed) and post and ask for recommendations for open-minded endos and primaries and nurse practicioners who treat thyroid patients.
> 
> Here is a list of thyroid docs in TN recommended by a leading thyroid patient advocate:
> http://thyroid.about.com/gi/o.htm?z...p://www.thyroid-info.com/topdrs/tennessee.htm
> 
> Again, please remove the link if not allowed.


Help for our posters is "always" allowed, my dear sweet friend. Thank you for lending your expertise when you can. You have plenty of it.

Hugs to you and Luis,


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## HeidiBR

Hugs to you, too for your helpfulness and caring.

I have found the list I posted to very helpful for NC anyway. I think it helps because it includes all types of doctors and providers who are willing to be openminded about thyroid treatment.


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## Sharon

HeidiBR said:


> The key for me was to actually call endos and ask point blank: "does the doctor rely on TSH only for treatment? Does he treat according to symptoms in addition to TSH? Does he run Free T3 and Free T4 tests? Is he willing to prescribe Armour? Cytomel?" That is how I found my endo. It is a lot of calling around. But worth it.
> 
> Another option is to ask: use a site like http://www.city-data.com/ (please remove this link if not allowed) and post and ask for recommendations for open-minded endos and primaries and nurse practicioners who treat thyroid patients.
> 
> Here is a list of thyroid docs in TN recommended by a leading thyroid patient advocate:
> http://thyroid.about.com/gi/o.htm?z...p://www.thyroid-info.com/topdrs/tennessee.htm
> 
> Again, please remove the link if not allowed.


Thank you so much for the help. I truly appreciated all everyone is doing to help me. 
I've called those within reasonable driving and one of the biggest problems is a lot of them want referrals and some aren't taking patients. If the doctor won't get me into the office or run all the tests he won't give me a referral. It's so frustrating.


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## HeidiBR

Have you called the ones on the list linked above? They are the ones most likely to be open to different types of treatment. It IS frustrating. But you might have to drive some distance to get the care you are seeking and need. I know people here in NC who drive 2 hours to see an endo of their choice.

Your case right now is not textbook. You are having some sort of adverse reaction, and it is not the norm. Your present physician seems less than helpful. I think you MUST seek out a doctor, even if it means driving a distance, or going to Vanderbilt and seeing an expert:
http://www.vanderbilthealth.com/endocrinology/30902

I only mention Vanderbilt as it seems like it is the major research center near you.


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## Sharon

HeidiBR said:


> Have you called the ones on the list linked above? They are the ones most likely to be open to different types of treatment. It IS frustrating. But you might have to drive some distance to get the care you are seeking and need. I know people here in NC who drive 2 hours to see an endo of their choice.
> 
> Your case right now is not textbook. You are having some sort of adverse reaction, and it is not the norm. Your present physician seems less than helpful. I think you MUST seek out a doctor, even if it means driving a distance, or going to Vanderbilt and seeing an expert:
> http://www.vanderbilthealth.com/endocrinology/30902
> 
> I only mention Vanderbilt as it seems like it is the major research center near you.


Yes, I've called a number of them. The list is not that recent. The other problem is they want referrals. They will not give anyone an appointment without one. 
Speaking of Vanderbilt we'll be there tomorrow seeing my husband's doctor. We were going to see if he couldn't get me into one of the specialist there. If that doesn't work I'll be looking in the Nashville phone book and making calls. Speaking to the nurses won't hurt either. If I could get into a good doctor that's willing to listen and run the tests and prescribing a medication that would work I would drive the distance. I'm waiting for a couple of return calls as I write this.
Thank you


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## bigfoot

HeidiBR said:


> The key for me was to actually call endos and ask point blank: "does the doctor rely on TSH only for treatment? Does he treat according to symptoms in addition to TSH? Does he run Free T3 and Free T4 tests? Is he willing to prescribe Armour? Cytomel?" That is how I found my endo. It is a lot of calling around. But worth it.


And THAT is one heckuva idea I wish I had tried myself! I love the Internet. Depending on how things go, I may wind up following this approach. Thanks!


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## HeidiBR

I am not the originator of that idea - I think I read it on the Internet.
Sharon - can't you get your primary to refer you?


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## Sharon

HeidiBR said:


> I am not the originator of that idea - I think I read it on the Internet.
> Sharon - can't you get your primary to refer you?


The doctor that won't help me is my primary (used to be anyway). He won't refer me. I just researched a Dr. Chapdelaine in Brentwood Tn. Not good reviews at all.


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## HeidiBR

Where are you reading reviews?
You can call your insurance company and find out if the primary can be bypassed. Or, make a really solid case to your primary WHY he needs to refer you to a specific doctor you have chosen.


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## HeidiBR

What is the exact rationale that your primary gave you in denying your referral?
If he doesn't think it is thyroid-related, what does he think - and how is he planning to treat it?
Are there other medical issues here that might effect the thyroid?


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## Andros

Sharon said:


> Yes, I've called a number of them. The list is not that recent. The other problem is they want referrals. They will not give anyone an appointment without one.
> Speaking of Vanderbilt we'll be there tomorrow seeing my husband's doctor. We were going to see if he couldn't get me into one of the specialist there. If that doesn't work I'll be looking in the Nashville phone book and making calls. Speaking to the nurses won't hurt either. If I could get into a good doctor that's willing to listen and run the tests and prescribing a medication that would work I would drive the distance. I'm waiting for a couple of return calls as I write this.
> Thank you


Also ask people like your veterinarian, dentist etc. "who" they use for a doctor.

Good luck w/Vandy!!!


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## lavender

I have found that most endos will not take someone without a referral, even if insurance does not require one.

I too just started asking friends who they see. I ended up seeing a doc who is not and endo, but is willing to prescribe thyroid meds.


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## Sharon

HeidiBR said:


> Where are you reading reviews?
> You can call your insurance company and find out if the primary can be bypassed. Or, make a really solid case to your primary WHY he needs to refer you to a specific doctor you have chosen.


The primary can be bypassed. It's the endos and some of the internitst (I was surprised by that one) that won't take anyone without a referral. 
You can go to www.ratemds.com www.vitals.com www.healthgrades.com 
My primary isn't listening.


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## Sharon

HeidiBR said:


> What is the exact rationale that your primary gave you in denying your referral?
> If he doesn't think it is thyroid-related, what does he think - and how is he planning to treat it?
> Are there other medical issues here that might effect the thyroid?


I don't know what his rationale is. He won't say what he thinks it is and he doesn't have a plan to treat it. I have news for him, I'm not going back to someone who is like that. No other medical issues.


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## Sharon

Andros said:


> Also ask people like your veterinarian, dentist etc. "who" they use for a doctor.
> 
> Good luck w/Vandy!!!


I will ask everyone who they go to. The majority of the people go to Vanderbilt. They tried to get me in but no luck. The endos want a referral from the primary care. So, I'm back to square one.


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## Sharon

lavender said:


> I have found that most endos will not take someone without a referral, even if insurance does not require one.
> 
> I too just started asking friends who they see. I ended up seeing a doc who is not and endo, but is willing to prescribe thyroid meds.


It seems everything has to have a referral. I'm still looking. It doesn't have to be an endo as far as I'm concerned.


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## lavender

I'm in the same boat. I think I need to see a rheumatologist, but need a referral from my primary and need to convince her first. All these obstacles are so frustrating!


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## Sharon

lavender said:


> I'm in the same boat. I think I need to see a rheumatologist, but need a referral from my primary and need to convince her first. All these obstacles are so frustrating!


All this is so unnecessary. I believe the majority of the doctors forgot the part of the oath that says "DO NO HARM". It's all about the money.
When my husband was in the hospital in December he never saw the Cardiologist until one hour before he was discharged. Then the guy says "too bad you ate breakfast, I would have shocked your heart". This is the first and only time we laid eyes on the guy. The entire time a hospitalist (not allowed to have your own doctor see you at the hospital anymore) saw him once, her NP saw him twice. It took them 4 hours to discharge him so they could get an extra day from the insurance company. It's all about the money not the patient. It's all very sad!


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## HeidiBR

Maybe try this: go to the largest pharmacy in the area and ask: which doctors prescribe Armour. Ask: which ones prescribe Cytomel. They do not have to be endos - it might be better to just find an Armour-prescribing primary. Make an appointment for a full physical and ask that free t3 and free t4 be run as part of the blood work.

But, since your throat was swelling before taking Synthroid, and after taking Synthroid and Armour, be prepared that it is indeed something other than your thyroid. Maybe it isn't a thyroid issue. Maybe it is something else altogether.


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## Sharon

HeidiBR said:


> Maybe try this: go to the largest pharmacy in the area and ask: which doctors prescribe Armour. Ask: which ones prescribe Cytomel. They do not have to be endos - it might be better to just find an Armour-prescribing primary. Make an appointment for a full physical and ask that free t3 and free t4 be run as part of the blood work.
> 
> But, since your throat was swelling before taking Synthroid, and after taking Synthroid and Armour, be prepared that it is indeed something other than your thyroid. Maybe it isn't a thyroid issue. Maybe it is something else altogether.


We are going to speak to our pharmacist today specifically for that reason. A friend gave me that name of three doctors she got from friends and I'll give them a call on Monday.

I am prepared for anything. You never know what could be wrong. It may be something terrible (hoping not) it could be allergies.


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## HeidiBR

This might be a stupid question, but is your throat swollen - or your neck? If your throat is swollen I wonder if it is an allergic reaction. If your neck is swollen, where the thyroid is located, then that is a different story.


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## Andros

HeidiBR said:


> This might be a stupid question, but is your throat swollen - or your neck? If your throat is swollen I wonder if it is an allergic reaction. If your neck is swollen, where the thyroid is located, then that is a different story.


You know what they say, "No question is stupid!" Good morning, dear friend!


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## HeidiBR

Good morning! I am wondering if her neck is swollen, then maybe the thyroid itself is swollen and making the throat constricted. If the thyroid is swollen, maybe she is underdosed on the Armour.


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## Andros

HeidiBR said:


> Good morning! I am wondering if her neck is swollen, then maybe the thyroid itself is swollen and making the throat constricted. If the thyroid is swollen, maybe she is underdosed on the Armour.


And you may have nailed it. Waiting to hear from Sharon. Hope she is okay!


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## Sharon

HeidiBR said:


> This might be a stupid question, but is your throat swollen - or your neck? If your throat is swollen I wonder if it is an allergic reaction. If your neck is swollen, where the thyroid is located, then that is a different story.


Sorry I haven't responded sooner. We've had some bad thunder and lighting storms and I don't keep my computer on during the storms.
Both have been swollen. I feel it may be the thyroid because of the choking and the dry cough I have. The cough isn't a constant cough like when somebody has a cold. I stopped taking the armour thinking it was that, but I still have that feeling like somebody is choking me. I have also tried taking benadryl because if I was having an allergic reaction that would help some of the symptoms. It didn't do a thing. It's at the point that I'm choking on most everything I eat and drink.


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## lavender

Sharon said:


> All this is so unnecessary. I believe the majority of the doctors forgot the part of the oath that says "DO NO HARM". It's all about the money.
> When my husband was in the hospital in December he never saw the Cardiologist until one hour before he was discharged. Then the guy says "too bad you ate breakfast, I would have shocked your heart". This is the first and only time we laid eyes on the guy. The entire time a hospitalist (not allowed to have your own doctor see you at the hospital anymore) saw him once, her NP saw him twice. It took them 4 hours to discharge him so they could get an extra day from the insurance company. It's all about the money not the patient. It's all very sad!


I too was in the hospital 2 days waiting to see an endo. When the hospitalist finally got a hold of one, the endo wouldn't even see me in the hospital, just did a phone consult. This all happened after I waited 6 weeks for an appointment with an endo...which probably could have prevented the hospital visit in the first place! I know we have an issue with not enough specialists, but it gets very frustrating when you need to see one and can't. When I finally did see an endo, he was clueless about my thyroid and the effect it had on my entire body!

I suspect you will have a better time with a primary who is willing to prescribe Armour, and have read about asking a pharmacist myself.


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## Sharon

lavender said:


> I too was in the hospital 2 days waiting to see an endo. When the hospitalist finally got a hold of one, the endo wouldn't even see me in the hospital, just did a phone consult. This all happened after I waited 6 weeks for an appointment with an endo...which probably could have prevented the hospital visit in the first place! I know we have an issue with not enough specialists, but it gets very frustrating when you need to see one and can't. When I finally did see an endo, he was clueless about my thyroid and the effect it had on my entire body!
> 
> I suspect you will have a better time with a primary who is willing to prescribe Armour, and have read about asking a pharmacist myself.


It's truly amazing what has become of a good bit of the medical profession and none of it for the good of the patients.

We had a nurse we know tell us that everything in the doctor's office is geared to make the doctor look good. It's all about how much money they can make. Even at the expense of the patient. They just don't care like they used to.

I can't say that about Vanderbilt, they have been amazing with my husband. By the end of the month my husband has to have an ablation done and we're praying this division cardiology unit is every bit as good as what we've seen so far.

I made up my mind, if I can't at least find another primary around her tomorrow I'll be looking in Nashville because I can't wait any longer.

We may be moving closer to Nashville just to be closer to better doctors.

Our pharmacist wouldn't divulge any information about doctors who prescribing armour or anything else. She said it was a violation of ethics. Go figure.:rolleyes:


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## HeidiBR

I am wondering if it isn't your thyroid, but possibly, 1) acid reflux, or 2) a sinus infection or issue.


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## Andros

Sharon said:


> It's truly amazing what has become of a good bit of the medical profession and none of it for the good of the patients.
> 
> We had a nurse we know tell us that everything in the doctor's office is geared to make the doctor look good. It's all about how much money they can make. Even at the expense of the patient. They just don't care like they used to.
> 
> I can't say that about Vanderbilt, they have been amazing with my husband. By the end of the month my husband has to have an ablation done and we're praying this division cardiology unit is every bit as good as what we've seen so far.
> 
> I made up my mind, if I can't at least find another primary around her tomorrow I'll be looking in Nashville because I can't wait any longer.
> 
> We may be moving closer to Nashville just to be closer to better doctors.
> 
> Our pharmacist wouldn't divulge any information about doctors who prescribing armour or anything else. She said it was a violation of ethics. Go figure.:rolleyes:


Sharon; i am worried and I hate to be a nag but you really do need to get RAIU. Seriously!


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## Sharon

HeidiBR said:


> I am wondering if it isn't your thyroid, but possibly, 1) acid reflux, or 2) a sinus infection or issue.


I don't have a problem with acid reflux. It's possible it's a sinus infection but I don't have the usual symptoms. It wouldn't surprise me if it's stress. Not that I have any!!


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## Sharon

Andros said:


> Sharon; i am worried and I hate to be a nag but you really do need to get RAIU. Seriously!


I don't think you're being a nag. I'm really hoping at least one of the doctors I call tomorrow will work out.


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## Andros

Sharon said:


> I don't think you're being a nag. I'm really hoping at least one of the doctors I call tomorrow will work out.


Me too and please let us know. I will be "hanging" around! LOL!


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## Sharon

Andros said:


> Me too and please let us know. I will be "hanging" around! LOL!


Well,
All I've done is make calls this morning and not done yet. The people on the other end are soooooooo rude! One nurse asked "what insurance do you have? Me: I told her the insurance. Nurse: Do you only have one health insurance policy? Me: Yes. Nurse: Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd only one? Me: I'm lucky we have one, thanks for your time. Can you believe this????????

Another doctor doesn't test for anything other than TSH. Me: Would he be open to test for Free T4 and free T3? Would he be open to prescribing Armour thyroid or Cytomel? Nurse: Whatever for? It's not needed. Oh gaaaaaaawd I just realized you have thyroid problems. Do you know what a pain it is to treat people like you? Me: CLICK.
There's more but my blood pressure is going through the roof right
now.:aim33:
So, I'm off to make more calls.


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## Andros

Sharon said:


> Well,
> All I've done is make calls this morning and not done yet. The people on the other end are soooooooo rude! One nurse asked "what insurance do you have? Me: I told her the insurance. Nurse: Do you only have one health insurance policy? Me: Yes. Nurse: Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawd only one? Me: I'm lucky we have one, thanks for your time. Can you believe this????????
> 
> Another doctor doesn't test for anything other than TSH. Me: Would he be open to test for Free T4 and free T3? Would he be open to prescribing Armour thyroid or Cytomel? Nurse: Whatever for? It's not needed. Oh gaaaaaaawd I just realized you have thyroid problems. Do you know what a pain it is to treat people like you? Me: CLICK.
> There's more but my blood pressure is going through the roof right
> now.:aim33:
> So, I'm off to make more calls.


OMG!! Is this verbatim? I wonder if you should record this stuff and let the doctors hear it? Bet they have no clue as to what is going on on the front desk.

But maybe they do! The whole thing just makes you wonder.

So sorry for the hard day you are having; what a horror! To think our lives are in their hands! Way too scary!


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## Sharon

Andros said:


> OMG!! Is this verbatim? I wonder if you should record this stuff and let the doctors hear it? Bet they have no clue as to what is going on on the front desk.
> 
> But maybe the do! The whole thing just makes you wonder.
> 
> So sorry for the hard day you are having; what a horror! To think our lives are in their hands! Way to scary!


Oh yes, it's verbatim. I'm not surprised by this. It happens quite frequently around here and the doctors let them get away with it. It's still shocking to hear it. It is very scary. I believe you're right, not only does the front desk have a clue neither do the doctors. That's probably why my so called primary wouldn't get me in. Instead of saying this is out of my expertise let me refer you they just throw you away.


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## Andros

Sharon said:


> Oh yes, it's verbatim. I'm not surprised by this. It happens quite frequently around here and the doctors let them get away with it. It's still shocking to hear it. It is very scary. I believe you're right, not only does the front desk have a clue neither do the doctors. That's probably why my so called primary wouldn't get me in. Instead of saying this is out of my expertise let me refer you they just throw you away.


And when you don't feel well, this is so so hard to do what you are doing but you have to.

I did the same and so did many others. You have to fight for yourself; bottom line here. Just horrible. I am aghast although I shouldn't be. I forget my own experiences sometimes.


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## bigfoot

Keep pressing on and don't give up! There are healthcare professionals out there who are truly "professional". One is my better half, as are many friends. (And I'm still having a heckuva time finding a good doc.) It's a shame that a few rotten apples have to spoil the whole bunch.

Quite frankly -- don't assume you're always talking to an actual nurse or even someone qualified to make a medical decision or comment. Many are just office staff, medical assistants, or CNAs. Not to slight these folks, as they do a great job, but they really are not trained to be handling things very far outside their scope of employment. They should be forwarding these questions to the doctor.

In the meantime, they're hoping by saying a couple of rude comments you'll just move on and make their lives a little easier. Totally ridiculous!


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## ScaredAJ

*HUGS* That's all I can offer. But I would recommend using those "angie's list" type websites to spread the word of how you are treated. The more people that know the lesss of us have to go through what you just did! :hugs:


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## ScaredAJ

Also Answering Service Personnel can be rude little jerks too, they answer the phone just like you reached the doctors office. I managed a doctors call center for several years and I've seen first hand how they can be. Call back and ask to speak with the office manager and let them know.


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## Sharon

bigfoot said:


> Keep pressing on and don't give up! There are healthcare professionals out there who are truly "professional". One is my better half, as are many friends. (And I'm still having a heckuva time finding a good doc.) It's a shame that a few rotten apples have to spoil the whole bunch.
> 
> Quite frankly -- don't assume you're always talking to an actual nurse or even someone qualified to make a medical decision or comment. Many are just office staff, medical assistants, or CNAs. Not to slight these folks, as they do a great job, but they really are not trained to be handling things very far outside their scope of employment. They should be forwarding these questions to the doctor.
> 
> In the meantime, they're hoping by saying a couple of rude comments you'll just move on and make their lives a little easier. Totally ridiculous!


OMG, I would have mistakenly thought you would have had easier time finding a doctor. It's really sad what's happening to health care. I think the rotten apples moved to TN! They certainly do spoil things for everyone. If it wasn't for Vanderbilt I would really be down on the entire profession. We haven't met one bad doctor, nurse, or technician there. They give a person hope. I have a few more calls to make tomorrow.


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## Sharon

ScaredAJ said:


> *HUGS* That's all I can offer. But I would recommend using those "angie's list" type websites to spread the word of how you are treated. The more people that know the lesss of us have to go through what you just did! :hugs:


Thank you for the hugs, everybody can use some. If money wasn't tight I would be on angie's list. I have left feedback on the review sites for these doctors.


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## HeidiBR

Maybe you should try to find a new primary - who would be willing to refer you to Vanderbilt - instead of an endo. Maybe you'll have more luck?


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## Sharon

HeidiBR said:


> Maybe you should try to find a new primary - who would be willing to refer you to Vanderbilt - instead of an endo. Maybe you'll have more luck?


Finding a new primary is what I've been trying to do. If I'm referred to Vanderbilt it would be an endo there. Although I was told there was an endo there that prescribes desiccated thyroid. We'll see what happens.


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## HeidiBR

I apologize - I thought the calls you were making were to endos. The questions I posted earlier were to interview endos - I'm sure it works for primary's too.

Could you call your insurance company and ask if you can self-refer to Vanderbilt? Or, even better, go see a Vanderbilt primary care doctor with the sole purpose of he/she referring you to a Vanderbilt endo?

http://www.vanderbilthealth.com/primarycare/

I wouldn't get too hung up on a particular endo prescribing Armour or not. Once you get in to see an endo (any Vanderbilt endo) could you not then ask to be transferred to one who does prescribe Armour/Naturethroid? After all, you don't know that you are not having an allergic reaction to the very Armour you are seeking to keep.


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## Sharon

HeidiBR said:


> I apologize - I thought the calls you were making were to endos. The questions I posted earlier were to interview endos - I'm sure it works for primary's too.
> 
> Could you call your insurance company and ask if you can self-refer to Vanderbilt? Or, even better, go see a Vanderbilt primary care doctor with the sole purpose of he/she referring you to a Vanderbilt endo?
> 
> http://www.vanderbilthealth.com/primarycare/
> 
> I wouldn't get too hung up on a particular endo prescribing Armour or not. Once you get in to see an endo (any Vanderbilt endo) could you not then ask to be transferred to one who does prescribe Armour/Naturethroid? After all, you don't know that you are not having an allergic reaction to the very Armour you are seeking to keep.


No need to apologize! In the beginning I was calling endos. My insurance company doesn't require a referral, It's the doctors who want the referrals. Good idea to see a Vanderbilt PCP. I didn't realize they had a primary care clinic. To think we were just there! You're right, I don't know if I'm allergic to the Armour or if it's the fillers and binders.

I would consider an alternative medical doctor if they would accept insurance and they were good.


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## HeidiBR

We were able to self-refer to Duke - Vanderbilt doesn't allow self-referral?


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## Sharon

HeidiBR said:


> We were able to self-refer to Duke - Vanderbilt doesn't allow self-referral?


No, they want a referral from a PCP.


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## Sharon

Wish me luck. I have an appointment for July 1st. Called my ENT a couple of minutes ago and asked if they could recommend a doctor and they said "us". Was I ever surprised. So my appointment is with the doctor who helped me in the past. She wasn't able to answer my questions (office policy) but I know the doctor will be honest with me.
Sharon


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## Andros

Sharon said:


> Wish me luck. I have an appointment for July 1st. Called my ENT a couple of minutes ago and asked if they could recommend a doctor and they said "us". Was I ever surprised. So my appointment is with the doctor who helped me in the past. She wasn't able to answer my questions (office policy) but I know the doctor will be honest with me.
> Sharon


Whoa...............................that is really very very excellent!!! I know you cannot wait for this appt.; nor can the rest of us.

Yowza!


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## Sharon

Andros said:


> Whoa...............................that is really very very excellent!!! I know you cannot wait for this appt.; nor can the rest of us.
> 
> Yowza!


How right you are!!! The one thing the receptionist said was you can talk to him and he will listen. He may want all new tests including another ultra sound and some extras. I had him before so I know he will listen unless he's changed. I'll keep you informed.

The first thing to get through is my husband is having an ablation next Wednesday at Vanderbilt. Praying this goes well.


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## Andros

Sharon said:


> How right you are!!! The one thing the receptionist said was you can talk to him and he will listen. He may want all new tests including another ultra sound and some extras. I had him before so I know he will listen unless he's changed. I'll keep you informed.
> 
> The first thing to get through is my husband is having an ablation next Wednesday at Vanderbilt. Praying this goes well.


I will keep your husband in prayer and you also.


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## HeidiBR

Excellent that you got an appointment! Prayers for your husband from me, too. I know all about that


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## Sharon

HeidiBR said:


> Excellent that you got an appointment! Prayers for your husband from me, too. I know all about that


I'm going in armed with information! Let's hope he's open minded. Thank you for the prayers for my husband!


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## lavender

I'm glad to hear you have an appointment! good luck! Whether or not you actually end up on Armour, I think it's good to have a doc willing to prescribe it because that shows they are open to different options and willing to find the best treatment for a particular patient instead of keeping someone miserable on the status quo levothyoroxine treatment.


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## Sharon

lavender said:


> I'm glad to hear you have an appointment! good luck! Whether or not you actually end up on Armour, I think it's good to have a doc willing to prescribe it because that shows they are open to different options and willing to find the best treatment for a particular patient instead of keeping someone miserable on the status quo levothyoroxine treatment.


Thank you! Next Friday will be the day I find out how open minded he really is. I'm praying he is because I couldn't take the levothyroxine it felt like the life was being drained from my body. We'll see what happens. Right now I'm compiling a list questions about tests and medications.


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## lavender

I felt awful on levothyroxine. The longer I was on it, the more pain I was in.


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## Sharon

lavender said:


> I felt awful on levothyroxine. The longer I was on it, the more pain I was in.


I absolutely agree with you. When I took it I couldn't do anymore than lay on the couch day and night, there wasn't a part of my body that didn't hurt. And the headaches were horrible.


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## Sharon

Thought I would give everyone an update.
First the great news is my husband made it through the catheter ablation with flying colors Wednesday. arty0006:

Now for my appointment today. 
This doctor was the biggest jerk of all. He started out on the wrong foot and it went down from there. He thinks Hashimoto's is no big deal. "So what, that isn't important. You have hypothyroid and your TSH isn't that high to make you feel this bad. Stop all the medication you're on and only take Cytomel three times a day. Maybe you'll lose some weight and that will make you feel better." :aim25: Then he tried to push me off on some doctor who is well known for being as big of a jerk as he is.

His nurse was so surprised she excused herself from the room. The visit turned out to be worth it because his nurse had spoken to the girl who makes referrals and she called me over to the window when we were leaving and asked me who I wanted to go to. She also advised me not to go to the doctor he wanted to refer me to. No problem there! I gave her the name of the endo at Vanderbilt and she got right on the phone and made an appointment for me. Because she couldn't get me in any sooner than October she had them put me on a cancellation list so I could get bumped up.

So, here I go again.


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## bigfoot

That is just plain rotten. So happy the nurse ran interference for you. (Shhh... don't tell anyone... the nurses know more than the docs, LOL.) I hope the new doc at Vanderbilt can get you in sooner on that canx. list.

Glad your husband's ablation went well -- hope he is recovering well and getting some much-needed R&R. You both deserve it!

:anim_32:


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## Sharon

bigfoot said:


> That is just plain rotten. So happy the nurse ran interference for you. (Shhh... don't tell anyone... the nurses know more than the docs, LOL.) I hope the new doc at Vanderbilt can get you in sooner on that canx. list.
> 
> Glad your husband's ablation went well -- hope he is recovering well and getting some much-needed R&R. You both deserve it!
> 
> :anim_32:


It is rotten. These doctors should be very careful - they just might end up on the other end someday and be treated exactly how they treated their patients. I'm also hoping I'll be able to get in sooner.

My husband is getting R&R even though it's driving him crazy!
Thanks,
Sharon


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## shopper69

I have taken Armour was aweful worst thing I ever did.

I am not on synthroid 50 mg and I have aweful leg cramps no one can figure it out? help


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## HeidiBR

shopper69 said:


> I am not on synthroid 50 mg and I have aweful leg cramps no one can figure it out? help


?????? Please explain a bit more.


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## Andros

shopper69 said:


> I have taken Armour was aweful worst thing I ever did.
> 
> I am not on synthroid 50 mg and I have aweful leg cramps no one can figure it out? help


What happened on the Armour? What was your starting dose? What is your diagnosis?

Hopefully, you have recent labs and ranges you can share w/us? We need the ranges with the results as different labs use different ranges.


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## TZT

I found this thread and I am bringing it back to life. I started on Nature-Throid last week and I am still struggling with fatigue, brain fog and muscle aches. I know I have to give it some time. For those of you that take it how long did it take you to get adjusted?


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