# Just starting Armour



## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

I've been on Synthroid since '92. I'm at 175mg. I have a bottle of Armour 90mg and started yesterday. I just took 1/2 a tab. Today I took a little over 1/2 a tab. I felt a flush through my torso about 3 hours later, and my head is super tired, but my energy levels are fine. How long does it take to feel the positive effects of Armour? Some days days, some say weeks? Do we sometimes feel worse on it before we feel better?

Also, I see different opinions on the correct way to take Armour. Some say take it like Synthroid, at least an hour before eating, and some say take it with food because the t3 has to bind with food in order to work. What is the correct way to take Armour?


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Hi there and welcome!! You may wish to stick w/only 45 mgs. per day for a couple of weeks as 90 is a very high starting dose. My experience has shown that the patient should take the Armour when and how it is comfortable for them. Your Armour will be titrated to what you always do.

The only caveat that I know of is to take your Armour at least 4 to 5 hours away from iron or calcium if you are taking that. Or vice versa.

It usually takes a few weeks to really feel a difference. Technically, it takes 72 hours for the T3 to build up BUT, if you are T3 deficient, the body will suck that right up.

Hopefully your doctor is seeing you every 8 weeks for labs and further titration as needed?


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

My new endoc didn't say anything about coming back in for any tests, etc. I feel really bad today. Is this normal?


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

You will have to be on top of this. The Free T3 test is essential every 8 weeks to see where you are. Most of us like the FREE T3 at about 75% of the range provided by your lab. Every 8 weeks. You need to talk to your doc about this. Let us know.

You may not feel so good on the 90 mgs.; as I stated, that is a very high starting dose. Most if not all patients are started on 30 mgs. if no myxedema and only 15 mgs. if they have myxedema.

How do you not feel good; can you explain to us?


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

I'm mentally out of it.. very tired, kind of in a daze. Had a bad night's sleep, which isn't all that unusual, so I'm sure that is contributing to how I feel. I don't feel good enough to go out anywhere, to the store, etc.. just don't want to deal with people right now.


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## Swimmer (Sep 12, 2013)

I started on 15, which is low, but it is one of the recommendations from armour's own protocol on how to administer for a careful start, which due to my inability to tolerate synthroid & tirosint. Now I'm up to 30 after two weeks, here for two weeks, then 45... and so forth  till I'm up to 60... then see doc.

I think I have felt the help. Still have the ups & downs but not as dramatically as before anything and then when I hit the end of being off of everything - that was whacky as well. Stabalizing  getting better


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

I was feeling icky, so called my endoc and told him I thought I'd like to go back to Synthroid, so he called in a prescription for it, 175 mg, and cancelled the Armour. I have approx. 60 tabs of Armour here, 90mg or is it mcg? Anyway, after I talked to him, I ate and took 1/2 a tab of Armour. Shortly after I started feeling pretty good and now, except for just a little mental fatigue, maybe from being on the puter all day, I feel much better than I did the first two days on Armour. So now I have all this Armour here, plus 30 tabs of Synthroid. I've heard of people taking both at the same time, small doses of course. I'm wondering if taking both Armour and Synthroid would work for me. Has anyone heard of someone taking Synthroid one day and Armour the next? I'm not going back to this endoc again. He was really out of the loop on Armour knowledge.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Swimmer; you know I am so so glad to hear this. "Slo is a go!" Good for you!

Many hugs,


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

ssMarilyn...........It truly is not a good idea to mix these two meds. It is a shame your doc started you on such a high dose of Armour. I feel it may have worked for you.

Hey; If I live where you live, I don't think I would be that keen on going out either. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!! Goodness!!

Hugs,


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

Andros, I took another 1/2 tab of Armour today, 45mg and have to admit I feel pretty good. Now I'm thinking I just had two bad days when I first started Armour. My endoc didn't say a word about maybe feeling worse for awhile. In fact, he didn't say a single word about how to take Armour, what to expect and nothting about coming back for blood tests. Now I'm thinking I'd like to continue this. I do think that maybe 90 mg would be too much to take at once. I'd going to keep taking 1/2 a tab for awhile and just let the Synthroid sit for now.. a back-up I guess. In the meantime, I'm going to go to the pharmacy and ask them what MD's they have in their database that prescribe Armour. I do want to go natural, but I need an MD that knows his stuff about this and is going to do what I pay him to do.. guide me through this. Thanks for your input!


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## mum2bradley (Sep 27, 2010)

I started Thyroid (Canadian version of Armour) 2 weeks ago today 45 mcgs in the am and 30 in the afternoon. My first day was terrible. The worst headache ever. Since then I have been feeling ok, some days not as good. I go for bloodwork on the 24th and see my Dr on the 3rd.

Give the Armour a try and stick with it, that is my suggestion.


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

I started Armour about 7 weeks ago and my first two weeks were kind of rough. I had a low level headache for days and a few episodes of jittery heart rates, but I pushed through it and things evened out. I just got word from my doctor to bump it up a little and I got back in February to do blood work again (she's having me do it every 6 weeks). I don't split my dose, I take the whole thing in the morning with a full glass of water. Once thing I am doing is switching to the brand name version of Amour with my dose increase--I'm on the Erfa Thyroid generic version and I think it's causing me to break out a little on my face.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

I feel even better today! I have a inner sense of well-being that I don't recall ever feeling before, kind of a glow. Sounds corny, but I know it's the Armour. Has to be... I'm still on half a tab, 45mg and will stay at this for now...and search for a new doctor!


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

jenny v said:


> I started Armour about 7 weeks ago and my first two weeks were kind of rough. I had a low level headache for days and a few episodes of jittery heart rates, but I pushed through it and things evened out. I just got word from my doctor to bump it up a little and I got back in February to do blood work again (she's having me do it every 6 weeks). I don't split my dose, I take the whole thing in the morning with a full glass of water. Once thing I am doing is switching to the brand name version of Amour with my dose increase--I'm on the Erfa Thyroid generic version and I think it's causing me to break out a little on my face.


I didn't have any headache and no heart episodes, thank heavens... just a very tired head and the first two days I was very emotional and cried on and off. Has to be the fact that Armour is a hormone and it was changing mine?


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## Swimmer (Sep 12, 2013)

Hi ssMarilyn, just the fact that your doctor prescribed armour may mean that he/she is a keeper... You might just want to call and leave a message with the nurse (or bring in the synthroid when you go to your next appointment.) The doc may have meant to have you schedule blood tests and forgot. You can call the nurse, ask about it, and say - oh I decided to give the armour another try and things are going great! I haven't opened the synthroid, I'll bring it in when I come into my next appointment -- and say btw, did we want to schedule blood tests in 6 weeks now that I'm on armour?

I'll bet the doc prob wants them just forgot. I've read reviews on armour, and out of 10, on a scale of 1-10, for thyroid, I think it's a 10!! It works for lots of people.


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## bigguy2211 (May 5, 2012)

Reading the thread, and talked to a lady today whom was taking Armour after having her thyroid taken care of with a radioactive pill, and she claimed it was great. Andros has helped me understand my current situation, which is my doctor not being very experienced with thyroid related issues. But I've taking synthyroid and currently generic levothyroixine since 1989 after having my thyroid removed at age seven, I'm thirty two now. And I believe it has been suggested on this site that I consider Armour, and its gotten my attention. Is Armour really anymore beneficial than taking levothyroixine, I would love to hear opinions.


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

Armour is fantastic is you have labs that support the need - that is, if you aren't converting t4 to t3 (and therefore have labs that shoe low free t3), then Armour is a great, great choice.

I'm an effective converter, therefore Armour would probably darn near kill me. The message? There's no perfect drug. There's only the best drug for your individual situation. If your free t3 is low, investigate Armour. If not, stick with what works.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

I wasn't converting properly. My FT3 number was just below the very bottom lab range. Besides that, what made me decide to switch to natural are new British studies that say Synthroid can cause lung cancer. I guess they think it comes down to not enough T3 in our bodies, leaving us susceptible. In any case, I am so thankful I gave it a try. Natural is the ONLY way to go if you can.


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

I have no issues with folks wanting to try Armour. I do, however, want to caution people who may be reading and thinking about their own treatment. The referenced study had lots and lots of problems:

This was the most simple and bare-bones correlation of total amount of levothyroxine sold in Italy with the total number of women in Italy who have lung cancer. Such gross correlations do not necessarily have anything to do with "cause." The authors implied that the correlation has something to do with levothyroxine somehow causing lung cancer, but this research is far from actually showing it.

http://thyroid.about.com/b/2013/08/14/italian-study-says-thyroid-drug-may-increase-the-risk-for-lung-cancer-does-it.htm

Also, again for potential readers considering dessicated medication -- I think it's important to remember there is no "natural" treatment. Armour and similar drugs may be derived from animals, but they are highly processed drugs that are anything but natural. Again, great choices for non-converters, but the decision to try these drugs should be supported by lab work and not a decision to "go natural."


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

Natural is the term I use because it's how I feel as in comparison to synthetic.


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

I agree with joplin, there is no "perfect" pill for thyroid problems. Armour works for me because I am not a good converter and Synthroid alone did nothing and Cytomel was just too much for my system. However, there are many posters here who do fantastic on Synthroid and/or Cytomel and don't need to switch. It all comes down to your body and your labs. Yes, Armour is more "natural" than Synthroid, but it's still highly processed and manufactured.

The "perfect" thyroid pill is the one that works for you, no matter what brand it might be!


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## Airmid (Apr 24, 2013)

joplin1975 said:


> I have no issues with folks wanting to try Armour. I do, however, want to caution people who may be reading and thinking about their own treatment. The referenced study had lots and lots of problems:
> 
> This was the most simple and bare-bones correlation of total amount of levothyroxine sold in Italy with the total number of women in Italy who have lung cancer. Such gross correlations do not necessarily have anything to do with "cause." The authors implied that the correlation has something to do with levothyroxine somehow causing lung cancer, but this research is far from actually showing it.
> 
> ...


Very true. I do think it's sad we have no natural options here, but since natural compounds cannot be patented we will never see them offered by bodies that have careful regulation of their drugs. Plus some drugs/compounds have no natural counter part or would not work if derived naturally for the human body. But hey, I sort of feel better I'm not taking something derived from horse urine. There's worse places medications come from. 

Now there are very real interactions with some thyroid medications and certain foods/minerals. There has also been some concern about bone loss though it's still unclear what causes this.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Now that is using good logic. I am so glad you cut back to 45 mgs. and yes; you need a doc who knows how to Rx and titrate Armour properly.

Every time you get labs and if the clinical evaluation and the FREE T3 dictate further titration upward, that should only be by 15 mgs..

Slow, yes! Guaranteed to work; yes!

One reason why is as you start to feel better, you will be doing more. This in and of it's self will cause a need continued titration upward until you are euthyroid (feeling great and doing your daily things that you enjoy doing.)

Hugs,


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## Airmid (Apr 24, 2013)

I think one doctor I had (who sadly I wish I still had) said it best: "We don't want to shock your thyroid or body. Neither you or it will feel good."

Small doses are always the way to go. Some doctors go by the 25% rule, but let me tell you there's a big difference between 25% of 30mcg and 200mcg. If a dose ever seems to big of a jump say so and ask to go smaller to get to where the doctor wants you.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

I didn't think about it in that way, but yeah that make sense that as you feel better, you will do more and then your system will require more Armour. I feel good and for the first time in years and years I have a sense of well being, an inner glow, so to speak. I never had that on Synthroid. I'm so glad I decided to give this a second chance. Synthroid only did part of the job and Cytomel didn't like me, so Armour it is!


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## Airmid (Apr 24, 2013)

ssMarilyn said:


> I didn't think about it in that way, but yeah that make sense that as you feel better, you will do more and then your system will require more Armour. I feel good and for the first time in years and years I have a sense of well being, an inner glow, so to speak. I never had that on Synthroid. I'm so glad I decided to give this a second chance. Synthroid only did part of the job and Cytomel didn't like me, so Armour it is!


Plus, always keep in mind that it takes a little bit of time for thyroid meds to really start working, which is why labs are so important along with time. The hope always is that a patient will slower start to feel better and better and the dosage is finely tuned until the patient feels great and the thyroid is fully under control.

While for some of us that hasn't happened, and for others it didn't happen until their thyroid was removed, it is still a realistic goal for the vast majority of thyroid patients. After learning a lot from the doctors who have treated me over the years, if never ceases to frustrate me when I read stories of patients just being tossed thyroid meds and increased almost haphazardly by physicians who either don't know, are over worked or are just burned out. All thyroid patients deserve better then that.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

How soon does the dr do the first set of tests to see where you're at? Has anyone noticed they started to shed some weight after they were on Armour for awhile?


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

The standard protocol is to do labs every 6-8 weeks after a dosage increase.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

Thank you! I need to know this info as my endoc sure doesn't seem to! arty0045:


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

Just saw this on a Facebook thyroid board.. thought you all would enjoy this!

So I saw my Thyroid Doctor yesterday.
This is how the conversation went.
Dr. "How are you doing?"
Me " i feel like the old symptoms are creeping back up on me."
Dr. " I'm sure you are fine. Anything else?"
Me "I'd like to talk to you about your thoughts on switching me to Armor."
Dr. (snorts a laugh) "I can tell you all the cons of Armor."
Me "Well, I'd like to have that conversation, Please."
Dr. "You know that they say it is natural. Well, it's made from pig thyroid. Do you really want to eat pig thyroid?"
Me " I know what it's made from. So..."
Dr. "The T3 only lasts about 2 hours and then it's gone. This makes it very difficult to know what dose to have you on. It's very annoying to us [Doctors] It's aggravating. One week it's go up to 100mcg, then it's go to 50, then up to 75 and then 100. We don't want to use it because it gets in our way. Synthetic Thyroid is more predictable."
Me "Oh. What if I have a problem with converting T3?"
Dr. "you would be dead. You don't look dead to me. Do you feel dead?"
Me- SILENCE
My take away was that the only con was it was inconvenient for the doctor. Well, it's not about him is it? It's about ME!

TIME TO FIND A NEW DOCTOR.
He always makes me feel bad. This was not the first insensitive thing he has said to me. First one was when I told him I was really trying to lose weight, and the weight just kept going up. His response was, "You aren't really trying."

Second, He told me If I didn't start losing weight, I'd get diabetes. I am 5'3 1/2" tall and at that point I weighed 152lbs. (Not the heaviest I've been) I started crying. He told me to suck it up.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

I am grateful to hear this! We all have fought so hard to overcome so many obstacles in order to gain our health back.

For me; Armour is a Godsend!

OMG!! This doc sounds like a sadist! How cruel!!

!Sending you huge hugs!! And here; we don't suck anything up!! Bless your heart.


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## Airmid (Apr 24, 2013)

Wow what a doctor. Mine may be stuck in his ways but you do get the feeling he actually cares about you.

I'm starting to think a lot of doctors are stuck in the belief that hypothyroidism is always easy to treat. You just need the right dosage and BAM! cured. And for those of us that don't fall into that mold they have zero ideas on what to do. When I research (usually late at night due to insomnia that I've had for several years, yay mixed symptoms!) I keep finding case studies, many involving young women not responding well to thyroid hormones. I wish there were more studies done, including cohort ones, to actually find the incidence of hypothyroid/Hashi patients who don't do well on medication. Along with comparisons before and after surgery if they had it.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

Airmid I bet you already know that staying on the computer at night stops your brain from making the melatonin you need that makes you sleepy? I used to have the same problem and still do to a degree, but not like I used to. I researched insomnia, like I do everything, and read that B12 helps relax the brain. I bought some B12 5000 mcg sublingual, (under the tongue) and take that along with a B complex as they both work together. In about 2 weeks my brain started feeling sleepy at night and I was finally, after maybe 20 years, able to go to sleep. I used to have the 'runaway train brain'.. it was like a neon sign that would start flashing as soon as the lights went out and everything went quiet. My sleep has improved SO much with the B12 and B complex. Maybe give it as shot? P.S. I also have to shut the puter down about 9pm so that my brain has some time to get sleepy.


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## Airmid (Apr 24, 2013)

ssMarilyn said:


> Airmid I bet you already know that staying on the computer at night stops your brain from making the melatonin you need that makes you sleepy? I used to have the same problem and still do to a degree, but not like I used to. I researched insomnia, like I do everything, and read that B12 helps relax the brain. I bought some B12 5000 mcg sublingual, (under the tongue) and take that along with a B complex as they both work together. In about 2 weeks my brain started feeling sleepy at night and I was finally, after maybe 20 years, able to go to sleep. I used to have the 'runaway train brain'.. it was like a neon sign that would start flashing as soon as the lights went out and everything went quiet. My sleep has improved SO much with the B12 and B complex. Maybe give it as shot? P.S. I also have to shut the puter down about 9pm so that my brain has some time to get sleepy.


I do already take a B complex. It really depends on what's happening with my body and I only go back to the computer when I know I'm not going to go back to sleep. Also it helps if you only use the bed for just sleeping (outside of approved partner involving exercise of course  ) and not sitting in it to read or just laying there for hours tossing and turning. If I know I don't have a chance to fall asleep I get up to go read for a while till I feel sleepy again.

I had a doctor a long time ago suggest a mixture of magnesium and melatonin that has worked the best for me. It's not always possible depending on what my body decides to do and I do suffer from waking up too soon also. Once I wake up I'm up so I try to have all stimulus far away from me. I do have the same kind of mind "won't stop thinking" and have used meditation successfully to get back my quiet moments.

Thanks for the suggestions - I think it's important to give many things a shot as we're all different and sometimes it's unusual combos that help us the most.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

I also take magnesium citrate twice a day, along with D3 and it has also helped me with my sleep. The B12 is so important and the B complex doesn't have enough. So many studies show there's a high percentage of Americans that suffer a B12 deficiency and read this and see what that leads to.... scary... http://chriskresser.com/b12-deficiency-a-silent-epidemic-with-serious-consequences

A great book I just read on this is 'Could it Be B12? An Epidemic of Misdiagnoses' by Sally M Pacholok, R.N and Jeffrey J Stuart D.O.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

I am sooooooooooooooooooooo glad this is making a difference for you!! Hopefully, you will have your life back!


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

Just rec'd the book 'Stop the Thyroid Madness' two days ago. Am only on page 58, but wow.. the wealth of info in that book is amazing! I had started 45 mg of Armour almost 3 weeks ago. The fast few days I'm feeling kind of icky again and from everything I've read, every couple of weeks or so, until you reach your optimum level of Armour, you will feel lousy and that's when you usually increase your dosage by a little bit. Since my endoc was as useless as a tit on a nun and I have enough Armour to last a little over a year, I thought I'd just slowly increase it on my own, do an FT3 test and watch things. It's not like I'm trying to treat heart failure or something and for sure if I got to feeling really bad, I would call the MD/DO that I saw 2 years ago and plan on going back to in a few months. I ordered the FT3 blood spot test from ZRT labs, who I've done tests with several times before. It's coming priority mail, so I'd guess it would be here Wed. Is it true that it's best not to take Armour the day you do the test? To wait til after the test to take it? Also, since I'm taking 45 mg of Armour each morning now, (approx 6am) should I continue that, and then around noon, take approx. 20mg? These pills don't split well, even with the pill splitter. They kind of disintegrate.


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## Airmid (Apr 24, 2013)

The big thing with Armour and other T3 drugs is the chance you'll go hyper along with the effects on the heart. Too little or too much T3 over the long term can have some drastic effects on heart health so keep up on labs.

I've never been told not take my thyroid before panels. My Endo would probably throw something at me finally if I told him on a low lab "Oh yeah, I just didn't take my thyroid meds because of something I read on it." Always ask what they would like you to do.

Always keep your doctor informed as to what you are doing. If you were feeling better and now feel lousy and would like to go up tell them. I do know we have a whole thread here on splitting those pills that's very recent.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

Did an FT3 test Thursday and won't have the results for a few days. Friday I took my regular dosage of 45mg in the AM and then half of that amount in the early afternoon. Seemed to do okay. Today did the same routine, but about 1 1/2-2 hours after the 22mg dosage in the afternoon, got a rush of anxiety. Is that to be expected? I hate this feeling. It is going away slowly but am wondering if this is normal so that I know what to expect.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

Into my 4th month on Armour, taking 45mg in the morning and 45mg in the afternoon. Last week it was upped to 68mg in the AM and 45mg in the afternoon. This week has been bad for me. Lots of brain fog and just an over-all icky feeling. Today is the worst. I felt half-ways decent around noon so made a quick trip to the store. Half ways through the store I felt the brain fog coming on and on the way home it hit me full force. Now I feel really bad, tearful, foggy, headache comes and goes. Is this to be expected when the Armour dosage is increased? I'm half tempted to go back to Synthroid. I felt pretty good for a long time and then this week I feel horrible. Can anyone advise? I want to do the right thing but need to hear from someone who has experience feeling like death warmed over while increasing the Armour dosage.


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## earlyapex (Feb 17, 2014)

When did you make your increase? I get slammed pretty bad when I adjust my meds. From what I hear, some people are just more sensitive than others.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

A week ago Monday was the increase. I'm very sensitive to all meds, so maybe it's just a period of adjustment that I have to go through? I feel pretty decent today, but it's only a little after noon and the fog hit me yesterday about an hour after I took my dose of 45mg. I take the second dose approx. 1:30pm. Morning dose was approx. 67. These pills shatter when you split them, so it's tough to get the perfect dose.


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## Swimmer (Sep 12, 2013)

Do you consume any soy, iron or calcium near the times when you take these? (They can interfere.) I knew a lady on armour who was taking a shake that had soy in it -- "that shake" was the problem.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

No, I read up on this and knew what I shouldn't take with these pills. One thing that is so confusing though.. many people say take well before eating and then some say take 1/2 hour after eating. A very well-known MD says take 1/2 hour after eating. Who is right? Someone has to be wrong. I'd like to know the truth...and even the Armour site doesn't say anything.


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## Italiungurl (Apr 10, 2014)

I was on Armour for 10 years, took it at night around 10 PM

It isn't doing its job anymore for me for some reason.

levels are high then decrease dosage, then way too low

now on Unithroid feel better after 4 days.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

*Is Unithroid synthetic?*


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

They don't say anything because it really does not matter. The main criteria is to be very consistent. I have never had a problem. But...........................I am extremely regimented.


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