# Hashimoto, panic attacks, anxiety, TT



## Indianrose

Hello everyone,

First of all I apologize if my english is bad or weird but I am not native speaker, I live in Croatia and since in my country there is nothing like this, I have decided to create account here and see how ut goes. From what I have read here, there are many experienced postera and I would really like to hear from you.

So, I have many issues with Hashi, I was diagnosed 8 yrs ago but my thyroid has alreay been so destructed ( left side cca 60%, right 80%). It all started whe I was 19yrs old and had first panic attack,massive one..Then I developed agoraphobia,social phobia and GAP. I have always been tired, exhausted, not able to concentrate but I thought that it was all due to mixture od college,working and traveling,getting up early etc. Until my heart started to have palpitations which led to more panic attack,more anxiety etc.

I was put on antidepr. Cipealex and xanax as needed. When all settled down I stopped medications. Since then I have had 3 episodes of these things until I was 26 when I lost my first pregnancy and we did some blood work and I finnaly got the Hashi diagnosis. M thyroid was allready almost dead but endocrinologist put me on Euthyrox (25,50,75mcg).

Then I got married, had a second child and I guess postpartum jatrogenic hypertireosis since my dose was to high.

I was doing my ultrasounda regulary, checking my ft3, ft4 and TSH and everything was always in normal ranges except me- I was horrible. Having daily panic attacks, anxiety over the roof, depression and all the time I was standing and watching what is happening to me. At first I was affraid a lot, took the antidepr.and xanax again, until about a year ago when my anxiety hit the roof and I qas diagnoses with Borderline personality disorder aka emotionaly unstable personality even though my psych. Told me that its all about my thYroid. In January this year I had an ultras.of my thyroid and its completly eaten by AB,and my doctor suggested surgery. From May I have a lot of other issuea : heart palp., muscle twitching,cramping, pain all over my body, daily mood swings, emotional pain, lack of interest, fatigue and/or hyper feeling of jitters, nervousness, anxiety, hot and cold flashes...You name it I have it.

I am totaly for TT but I am affraid what if my condition starts to be even worse ( But I am not sure that it can get any worse) in psychiatric sense?

Dis anyone had similar experience that can sharw with me? I am absolutely sure that I dont have BPD, i have a nice life, beautiful girl, I love my husband. I volunteer a lot, have my own company..I mean I would like to enjoy in life and nit feel so miserable all the time. But than again, what if after TT I get even worse?


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## Indianrose

Oh yeah, I forgot to write that I tried paleo, took and still taking supplements in regular form, etc.


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## Lovlkn

Welcome to the board!

Interesting story. Do you have copies of any thyroid blood tests they might have run? Please post with ranges. Posting antibody results would also be helpful.

You sound like your medication is not being properly managed.

Many people report psychiatric symptoms when their thyroid levels are not optimal.


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## Indianrose

They are not optimal for sure 

TSH 4,76 ( 0,27 - 4,2)
T3 1.66 ( 1.3 - 3.1) they didnt do free
Ft4 13,6 ( 12-22)

My AB were measured at the beginning and they were arround 2300 ( very very high).

My ferritin is low also, my thyroid is full of holes ( my last ults.says multi microatrophy tissue).I tried T3 medication together with euthyrox, I felt great at for 2 weeks and then I started to feel hyper symptoms and stopped. My cortisol level was also low so I guess it had something to do with that and low ferritin. my endo upped the dose on 100mcg if Euthyrox but again I started to have very bad side-effects and had to be hack in 75mcg.

My endo said that what is left of my thyroid is throwing hormones as it wants, due to extreme tissue damage, and we cannot predict anymore what will cause it to start the fire on me. I literally feel one day hypo and the next hyper and cant control it...before it was occasionally but now its on daily basis.

So, I dont respond good to meds with thyroid in this stage as it goes on and off as it will, my adrenals are damaged, my immune system is destroyed since it is forced to attack the rest of tissue, I have a lot of problems already - could TT fix my problem or maybe just make it more bearable?


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## Lovlkn

A TT will remove the diseased thyroid - once it's gone the antibodies have nothing to attack.

It is much easier to adjust thyroid hormone to optimal levels without a failing thyroid.

Raising your iron levels will help your body accept the T3 hormone.

I was afraid to remove my thyroid and eventually had a TT. Life is SO much better without a diseased thyroid for me.


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## Indianrose

Thank you  I am very concern that my psychological state doesnt drop again cause I think I am halfway to be institutionalized  , even though I am very aware of everything that is going on with me. I will wait to see if anyone else experienced something similar, maybe he or she will write : MY PANIC ATTACKS FINNALY STOPPED


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## Lovlkn

My sister had panic attacks 10 years prior to being diagnosed with thyroid disease. She just had her thyroid removed. The panic attacks stopped.

I had anxiety which stopped shortly after I had my thyroid removed.

have they ever tested TSI antibodies? I'm assuming the high antibody levels you shared are TPO antibody


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## Indianrose

Yes, they are Anti-TPO and I am pozizive for anti TG but no TSI were taken. But why should I takw TSI when I am already considering TT? Will that make a difference after TT? Even if they are positive she needs to gw out so...


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## Lovlkn

I was looking for clarification as to the antibodies they ran on you.

If you are considering removal having TSI antibodies probably wouldn't matter. You mentioned feeling hyper some days which is why I asked.

Removal of the thyroid will stop the attack and like I said - dosing thyroid hormone replacement becomes much easier because no more thyroid hormone is being released from your diseased thyroid gland. The antibodies are specific to the thyroid gland so without a thyroid there is nothing to attack.


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## jenny v

Agree with Lovlkn, if you're planning to remove your thyroid TSI antibodies being run would be nice to know but not necessary. The symptoms you've mentioned make me think you probably have them, so removing your thyroid might be your best option. I never had panic attacks but I did have periods where I felt really "revved up"--my body just felt like it was running at full speed. Then I would crash and go through a hypo period where I was just worn out. It was not fun.


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## Indianrose

Yes, same thing is happening to me especially when I am in ovulation period and then crash during my menstrual cycle. Uf, such a horrible disease.

Tommorow I am having my app. with surgeon and end. But I already know tjat he will say takw it out, he is saying that on almost every check. The problem is that he is a private practicioner and the surgery costs arroun 2500EUR but every other hospital doctor said that there is no need to remove the gland since it is still producing some hormones:/. That is why I was so sceptical in thw first place but I shoul have known that he is only one who actually cares not only for ranges but for subjective symptoms.

I will let you know how my appointment went, and really thank you for supporting my decision.


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## Indianrose

Hey again,

So apparently I am in a phase of thyrotoxicosis, my endo says its time to take it out. MY surgery is on 13.11. arround 17 pm... Also I have a new nodule 8mm. I have some blood work to do so I hope I will find energy to do that. Oh gosh..


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## Lovlkn

Hang in there! It will get better.


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## jenny v

You're very close to getting this done and feeling better, just a few more weeks!


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## Indianrose

Finally the flare has stopped so I am able to do my chores...But I am exhausted, all I want to do is sleep. I guess I am hypo now so everything I do is at snail - slow speed but I am hanging in there. At least there is no jittery and nervousnesses. Just blank space in my head mixed with brain fog. I would choose this over hyper every time.

I will write about this flare because I think I have never experienced such strong one... This has been awful.

My gyn. also told me to have surgery because the thyroid is so unpredictable that all of my hormones are wild and unpredictable..he said of course that once I take it out there is no return, but it will be better because we could than heal other parts of me that have been influenced ( cortisol and adrenals, sex hormones etc.)

I know it is going to be a journey towards me getting better so I will keep writing here as much details I notice to help somebody else.


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## Indianrose

So, about the flare 

I will write tis in 2 sections, one physical,psychological, mental and also will add some extra details about how my family and reacted

Physical :

- pain all over my body - muscles, nerves, bones

- 5 loose stools/ diarrhea a day

- urination every 1 hour or more

- muscle twitching and hypertonic

- no apetite

- water retention ( I think I got arround 3 kg.)

- ovulation aches ( ovaries and uterus) and also anovulation cyclus ( confirmed by my gynecologist)

- burning sensations starting from my stomach, up to my chest and neck, stopping in my head

- flashes of heat or hot/cold sensations

- sweating hands, feet, arm pits, nose

- shallow breath or apnea ( sometimes I noticed that I didnt take a breath for a while)

- dizziness

- attacks of hypoglycemia

- burning in my chest

- heart palpitations and/or irregular heart beat

- thin nails

- extremely dry skin, itchy and peeling

-cold extremities

- body full of bruises

- brain fog, headaches

- lack of energy, exhaustion together with feeling jittery, nervous and hyper speed

- shallow sleep or no sleep, waking up in the middle of the night

- flue like feelings

Psychological:

- constant feeling of worry

- nervousness, jitteryness,

- panic attacks

- constant feeling of anxiety that can lead to panic attacks

- panic attacks

- derealization

- depersonalization

- overthinking

- crying

- depression

- dark thoughts

- OCD or some milder form of OCD

Mental:

- forgetfulness

- epic brain fog

- no concentration

- feeling of dumbness in my head

- couldnt remember word, couldnt finish sentence

And how it all looked like during days and months in my life...

I didnt go to deep sleep because I couldnt sleep ( I was laying in my bed trying to get some rest, I had very vivid dreams and end up sleeping so shallow, my brain was working all night long, if I did wake up I would feel like something needs to be done, extreme boost of energy etc). Woke up, took my levo and 1,5 hours after I started to get all the mentioned symptoms.

I had to drive my daughter to kindergarten and had multiple panic attacks ( and that is dangerous, I had to stop at least 5 times even though the drive is only 10min. ). All trough the day I had racing thoughts, anxiety, heart palps, everything I started didnt finish, I felt constantly worried about " something or everything", I didnt eat regulary, everything made me feel sick. I had to run to toilets everywhere I was.

I eventually stopped driving because it was so stressful.And tolerance to stres was minimal - everything was stressful, talking to other people, to my husband, work...so I eventually stopped talking to everyone except my daughter. I felt like I couldnt open my mouth. I developed agoraphobia, social phobia panic attacks and GAD.

Washing dishes, cleaning etc was extremely hard and heavy. I forgot everything - where I left my keyes, what we ate day before, when is my daughter doctor app,

It was living in hell.


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## Indianrose

I had to reschedule my TT on 27th nov. ( my daughter was sick)... For a couple of days I felt fine and than, 5th day of my menstruation, I was at friends and suddenly I started to feel the symptoms comming back... I noticed some new things like muscles in my legs are feeling hypertonic but my arms are weak and stiff,I feel pressure in my head, like my brain will explode, there are jitters and nervousness... So, hyper symptoms are back...I am wandering, does any of you ladies felt these swings pre/during/after ovulation /menstruation... This has become awful after the birth if my daughter.

I mean,I know that thyroid affects everything in body, but so much? Just want to know will maybe that get better?


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## Lovlkn

> My gyn. also told me to have surgery because the thyroid is so unpredictable that all of my hormones are wild and unpredictable..he said of course that once I take it out there is no return, but it will be better because we could than heal other parts of me that have been influenced ( cortisol and adrenals, sex hormones etc.)


Who will be prescribing your thyroid hormone replacement medication post thyroid removal?



> I had to reschedule my TT on 27th nov.


Please explain - I do not understand what you are saying?


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## Indianrose

My endocrinologist who is also a surgeon will prescribe my medications and titer them as needed.

I already have my date of the surgery and its on 27.11.2017. ( it supposed to be today but I had to change it because my daughter was sick.)


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## Indianrose

So tommorow is my surger...I hope it all gets well..I am again feeling hiper sympmtoms even though my hormones say I am in hypo.

So..wo
Ish me luck.I will get back with info


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## joplin1975

Good luck! Let us know how things turn out. I'm sure you are going to have an easy, uneventful surgery


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## Lovlkn

Good luck with your surgery. Be sure to request the FT-4 and FT- 3 labs post surgery to dial in your replacement hormones.


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## jenny v

I hope it went smoothly! Let us know when you can.


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## Indianrose

Im back from surgery.. Everything went well, my incision is small and it doesn't hurt so bad. But, side effects of anesthesia are awful.
My doctor started me on calcium so i dont expect problems with that ( also my blood levels came back ok). I have some hiper swings but they go away very fast - doctor said that it's possible.


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## joplin1975

Yes, the hyper stuff is related to your thyroid "dumping" hormones out during the surgery. I felt hyper on and off for about 24-32 hours and then crashed.

I hope you feel better soon!


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## Indianrose

What do you mean crashed? What are the symptoms?


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## Indianrose

And what are the chances to crash if I am.already taking 75mcg of euthyrox?

My anesthesia is still present in terms.of side-effects so I dont know what is actually from thyroid removal and what from anesthesia.

But all in all I feel good, those hper swings com.and gi, they dont last for few hours as they did before, maybe an hour. Ill try to.put picture of my scar


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## Indianrose

Here it is


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## Indianrose

First one is right after surgery,second one is from yesterday


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## joplin1975

Oh your incision looks great!

I meant crashed in that I was completely wiped out. I went from feeling very hyper and high strung to completely exhausted in about 15 mins. Seriously -- my husband was making me some pasta and I was bouncing off the walls. By the time we sat down to eat, I said "Never mind, I gotta get to bed" and slept for about 14 hours.

But, I wasn't on any thyroid meds so I bed you won't have a similar reaction.


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## Indianrose

Yeah, it looks ok  i think Im not going to crash, I am somehow concerned for my calcium even thought yesterday was in normal ranges..i am just afraid of that calcium crash symptoms and that nightmare..but I think it's just my imagination aka anxiety 

Swings are better, they come and go very fast and now I can finnaly see that a lot of.my.problems were thyroid connected and I thought Im gping crazy, taking anti-anxiety medications etc...

My doctor s great,he said I will be on synth. Just one more month and than he woukd like me to start NDT or combination. 
I have already tried T3 with levo and it was horrible experience.

What do you suggest?


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## joplin1975

I'm a big fan of keeping it simple unless its needed.

Stick with synthroid and see how your labs look after six weeks. Work to get your free t4 between 50-75% of the range. If your free t3 is still low, then add in cytomel or switch to NDT. No reason to add in rocket fuel unless you need it.


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## Indianrose

Yes, I agree..that was also my goal, but first things first,I need ti recover from surgery and anesthesia  still feel weak and in pain...so lets fix this first.

Ill keep you informed how it goes.

Thank you


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## Indianrose

Hey,I was just wondering how long does it lasts for this hormone dump storm subsidies? Today, in the morning when I took my levo,I felt like having panic attack eventhough I knew that its just hormones messing with me.


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## Lovlkn

For me it was about 2 days. By the 3rd day I felt nailed to the floor - no energy and just exhausted- that's the day I began taking my thyroid hormone replacement.

I was not on any replacement - since you are already on 75mcg your crash might not be as severe. Please nete - 75mcg is not likely enough hormone replacement.

When do they plan to draw your first post op lab's?


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## Indianrose

In 4 weeks. I agree that its not enough but I guess doc want to wait for the symptoms of hyper subsidies. Maybe I will take them in monday to see what is happening


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## joplin1975

I crashed about a day and a half later. But I went into surgery pretty hypo, so I think its a different story...


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## Indianrose

How horribke is that huh  I am still waiting for hyper symptoms to go down, they are worst in the morning after I take
my levo.

I was hypon in hormon ranges but feeling hyper in symptomatic sense. Maybe just anxiety..I dont know...All I know is that it takes up to 10days to these swings go away and than 18months to be back on track and feel OK 

At least I can practice my patience skills


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## Indianrose

Now,this is weird 

I had this psoriasis like scar for 7years- nothing helped with it, no cream, food changing etc.

Now it's going away, 3 days post.op.

OMG


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## Indianrose

Here it is


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## Indianrose

X


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## Indianrose

Incision is red and bigger that after surgery, I still feel weak but I am trying to move arround a bit..for last two days my throat was killing me, I felt like swallowing knives

I am very tired last two days but I cant sleep a lot, I dont have hyper swings anymore. Lack of sleep is very disturbing to my bod now,I guess

I am a bit nervous because of lying in bed and still havin hoarse and weak voice, I cant talk to anyone (I cant talk to my little one, I cant pick her up) so Its a bit depressing :/

Also, I am in my PMS, my breasts hurt and I am a bit moody today and feel like crying.

So,today is a blah day, but anyway I feel better than last few years


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## Lovlkn

Are you keeping cool packs on your incision? That will make it feel better and also control the swelling.


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## Indianrose

No :/ I had a bit of a fever so I felt constantly cold and it wasnt pleasant, I didnt evet took paing killers.

But I went to do ER today because I started to have 38C fever and he said that everything is OK and I should take some ibuprofen in dosage od 600mg.

So, I got that...In the meantime, my mom who is taking care of me got sick, I guess flue, with high fever etc. so we are all in a bed rest...my husband is here and he is doing all the chores 

I also cough a lot and have a running nose so I guess I catched a cold somewhere.

But even though, I still feel fabulous hahaha

I didnt feel so happy and bright in my head and positive for years now... I can see clearly now tra la la la...

But it is remarkable to see how much thyroid effected my psychological state of mind...I dont have anxiety, I dont panic, my stress tolerance is so high that even my first surgery,pain,fever,cold, PMS, etc. dont mess with my head.

WOW


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## Lovlkn

> But it is remarkable to see how much thyroid effected my psychological state of mind...I dont have anxiety, I dont panic, my stress tolerance is so high that even my first surgery,pain,fever,cold, PMS, etc. dont mess with my head.
> 
> WOW


That's fantastic!!

Glad to hear you are feeling the relief and what a testimony to share with others suffering the mental side of this disorder.


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## Indianrose

I totally agree Lovlkn..

I guess it all started when I was 12 years old, I remember having my first panic attacks then, I went to pediatrician , they ran all possible tests on me except thyroid labs,and everything was fine, so they suggested it was puberty kicking in and I should see child psychiatrist.

And then through my teenage years I was very depressed and finally started college and everything started to happen again...

I went on and off antidepressants, xanax etc...finally being diagnosed with borderline - I didnt accept that because I had a beautiful life, work, volunteering , beautiful daughter and husband...I mean, everything was OK so I just couldnt figure it out why the F¸¸am I feeling so miserable...I went to psychotherapy for 3 yeas, and my counselor said that she thinks everything is OK with me...3 of my psychiatrists said that it is thyroid connected because I am very intelligent, my state of mind was great, I have 2 years of PhD ( I stopped after my daughter was born because i was so fatigued that I couldn even read not to mention research). And then I found this perfect doctor who helped me.

And here I am... post op and feeling great..I will have some work to do on phobias etc. ( if they even exist anymore, I dont feel them since surgery, not even panic attacks or anything similar) but I have a focus and a goal and finally some energy


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## joplin1975

I'm so glad to hear this. It will get better with time.

Also, anesthesia can cause low grade fevers for about a week or so after surgery. ????


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## Indianrose

Here I am..my lab results are back - I am euthyroid ( not in perfect ranges but not even hypothyroid) and still feel good.

My calcium levels are perfect


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## Lovlkn

Did you get a copy of the results? Can you post them with ranges please?


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## Indianrose

Yes I ddd but I cant put them now, I dont have my laptop with me..

Also biopsy results came, they found ocult papillary carcinoma in right lobe but it hasn't spread so I don't have to go to RAI ablation.

I am now on antibiotics because I have amo throat infection due to the flue and one of my vocql chords is paralyzed but doctor thinks its only temporary since I had surgery 8days ago.

But I still fewl good,not panicikn,not being hypersensitive and wacky


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## Lovlkn

yea!!! So glad to hear you finally have relief.


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## Indianrose

So, I guess I am crashing - 2 weeks post.op

I have absolutely no strength in my body, it feels like it's dead 

All I want to is sleep and I really sleep a lot.

Maybe its time to up my levo, Im now on 75mcg and that is really low.

Should I do bloodwork for 25mcg more? I did it last monday and it all hormones were in ranges, but still low for feeling ok.

I didnt up my levo because of the hyper symptoms I had after surgery.

Ill discuss it with my doctor but would like to hear from you.


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## Lovlkn

> I did it last monday and it all hormones were in ranges, but still low for feeling ok.


If your labs were "in range" but low as you state you will feel hypo. Goal is to get both FT-4 and FT-3 closer to 3/4 of the range to feel your best. If they were low just recently you probably don;t need to re-test, rather call the office and ask for a 25mcg increase.

Can you post your results please?


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## Indianrose

Ft4: 12,7 ( 7,5-21)

Ft3 :2,86 ( 2,62-5,69)

Tsh : 2,92( 0,35-4,94)

I called doctor and waiting for him to call me back.

Thank you


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## joplin1975

Well your free t3 is crazy low! No wonder you don't feel well. 

Hopefully your doc will approve the increase!


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## Indianrose

Yws, it has been this low for long time, always on the down line... But i couldnt get it up because every medication I tried triggered something in the thyroid that threw me in hyper.

I think cancer did that haha


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## joplin1975

You probably has TSI in the mix. Which make people pretty much intolerant to meds. I had the same thing


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## Indianrose

So waiting and patience it is together with right combo of meds.

Oh gosh...


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## joplin1975

Yup.

It's a marathon, for sure. But well worth it in the end.


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## Indianrose

But still, I dont get it. Today, for example, I had all day long panic attack like feelings, together with feeling exhausted and overwhelmed...yesterday nothing like that..it just pop's up, it makes.me a bit nervous because I don't know how I will feel next day.

I mean I had a lot things going on lately, surgery, flue with high fever, my period came exactly on time, so all together was a bit too much I guess. Still waiting that 4/6 weeks


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## joplin1975

It IS weird and I don't have an explanation.

All I can tell you is that someone told me it takes 18 months to feel better and they were absolutely right.


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## Indianrose

<3

Hehe..Ill get back on how everything is going.

But hey - no cancer is still a good deal


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## AlwaysTheOpposite

My thyroidectomy twin! I feel like I'm sort of reading my own story, right down to the getting a cold at the same time and my period. Oh do I feel your pain. Here's to things getting a lot better sooner rather than later.


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## Indianrose

Haha, thats so great 
So,did they get better for you?


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## Indianrose

I have a question - did any if you had a feeling or a symptom of muscles in arms and legs are thight? Its not like a cramping feeling, just tightness and maybe weakness in hands? 
I also feel it in my jaw sometimes..other symptoms are muscle twitching, like ants walking, but not pins and needles, more like I have exercise too much so everything is weak and twitching.


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## Lovlkn

I had muscle pains and odd feelings when I was under medicated on hormone replacement.


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## joplin1975

Me too!


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## Indianrose

Hmm..you gave me something to think about.. But I'm definitely not upping my Levo for at least 2 more weeks. Ill rather stick with hypo symptoms than go into hyper because of the hormone leftovers.


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## Indianrose

So, here I am with a bit of update...I didint feel good at all, no strength, still in pain etc. so I called my doctor and he upped the dose on 100mcg of Levo.

I felt better almost immediate but PANIC ATTACKS STARTED!

All of the sudden, the next day, I felt shaky, restless, panicy and it escalated into massive panic attack and I do not feel normal after that.

I have restless leg syndrome, diarrhea, a have to pee a lot, I feel tremors, my mind is racing, I can barely function..so with upping my Levo I had to up my xanax as well / its only 0.25mg a day splitted in two doses which is nothing considering my weight and hight but you know I wanted to get off those pills not increase them uff. Its not even a therapeutic dose.

I read on the internet that even people with no history of mental illness had them so it must be something hormonal. All of the symptoms I experience are like side effects of Levo so I am not sure anymore what is happening...I know its early still, I have just passed 3 weeks from my surgery, but still I was expecting to feel better / not worse..

Also, my doc wants to put me on Novothyral so I just ordered it in pharmacy and waiting for it to come...

Any thoughts would be helpful...


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## AlwaysTheOpposite

Indianrose said:


> So, here I am with a bit of update...I didint feel good at all, no strength, still in pain etc. so I called my doctor and he upped the dose on 100mcg of Levo.
> 
> I felt better almost immediate but PANIC ATTACKS STARTED!
> 
> All of the sudden, the next day, I felt shaky, restless, panicy and it escalated into massive panic attack and I do not feel normal after that.
> 
> I have restless leg syndrome, diarrhea, a have to pee a lot, I feel tremors, my mind is racing, I can barely function..so with upping my Levo I had to up my xanax as well / its only 0.25mg a day splitted in two doses which is nothing considering my weight and hight but you know I wanted to get off those pills not increase them uff. Its not even a therapeutic dose.
> 
> I read on the internet that even people with no history of mental illness had them so it must be something hormonal. All of the symptoms I experience are like side effects of Levo so I am not sure anymore what is happening...I know its early still, I have just passed 3 weeks from my surgery, but still I was expecting to feel better / not worse..
> 
> Also, my doc wants to put me on Novothyral so I just ordered it in pharmacy and waiting for it to come...
> 
> Any thoughts would be helpful...


I had my thyroidectomy the same day as you, but immediately started out on 100 mcg levo. For the first couple of weeks on that dose I felt pretty hyper, I even posted about it myself! I was having tremors, insomnia, some anxiety, and pretty significant heart palpitations. Over the past few days though, I've really begun to even out. So maybe you just need to give it a little time?

I will fully admit though, that I did restart taking my atenolol about a week and a half ago so its certainly possible that it is covering up some of my symptoms, but I've been able to further reduce my alprazolam dose to .75 mg a day since then. I was at 2 mg daily beforehand and had no history of panic attacks until my thyroid decided to take on a mind of its own. The panic attacks and heart palpitations were hands down the worst part of being hyperthyroid. I feel for you.


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## Indianrose

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS!



I catched a cold again so I guess some of the symptoms may have been related to that, but today I took 50mcg in the morning and in he afternoon I will take another 50 to make it more easy on me.

I have to be on replacement meds, just need to find the right dosage. On saturay I am staring on Novothyral 100mcg, half pill in the morning half in the afternoon so I am hoping to not have side effects.

OMG his is hard but I do feel a bit better today considring few days back ( eventhough I have cold )


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## Indianrose

I am taking xanax half of a 0,25mg pill to help with hyper swings for 3 years now..hopefully I wont have any whitdraval symptoms. Still I will taper off vry very slowely.

I am xtra sensiive to medications, ibuprofen of 400mg makes me sleepy and tired-so hey...


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## AlwaysTheOpposite

Indianrose said:


> I am taking xanax half of a 0,25mg pill to help with hyper swings for 3 years now..hopefully I wont have any whitdraval symptoms. Still I will taper off vry very slowely.
> 
> I am xtra sensiive to medications, ibuprofen of 400mg makes me sleepy and tired-so hey...


I was on 2 mg for over a year. I started cutting back in mid-October once I felt my methimazole was working relatively well and haven't had a problem at all for the most part. Granted I just did my first cut since surgery last week. I cut .25 mg every couple of weeks usually.

I agree with you though, at such a low dose, it's probably just a placebo effect for you! But if it takes 3 months or more to taper off, so be it, there are many worse things. I figure I'm probably likely to hit a wall here soon and will need to start decreasing by a smaller dose myself. Life will still go on!


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## Indianrose

I dont know how it is in other countries, but here in Croatia we are having a hard time with doctors...they are putting us on such a high doses ( as manuf.recomends or even higher) even if we do not feel good..they do not understand the term of medicine intolerance, they mostly think its all in our head...doctors in hospitals are , I guess, too scared to precribe ND or combo pills, so they strictly stick to levo, even though a lot of people feel sick on them.

My doctor is the ONLY one in he country and even the whole Balkan region who prescribes private recepies for NDT or combo medicaions..than we order them and have to wait for at least 10 days before they arrive.

He is he only one who said - take your thyroid out, I dont know what o do with you anymore, I am scared you developed cancerous cells.

There are a lot of support groups where we can find additional info about nutrition, diet, supplements etc. We dont have any holistic of funcional doctors what so ever, so everything is based on personal education.

Just to let you kknow how we/I stand...

All the best and Merry Christmas to all who celebrate!!!


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## Lovlkn

> Ft4: 12,7 ( 7,5-21)
> 
> Ft3 :2,86 ( 2,62-5,69)
> 
> Tsh : 2,92( 0,35-4,94)


Your lab's indicate the need for a dose increase.

What was your dose prior to the increase to 100 mcg?

You could try alternating your new dose with your old dose to see if symptoms resolve.

For some people the movement of thyroid hormones can cause some symptoms of being hyper.


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## Indianrose

Yes, I am now taking 50mcg in the morning and 50mcg arround 1pm to help me with side effects, i works OK.



My previous dose was 75mcg but only because I couldnt tolerate higher dose.


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## Indianrose

Hello, I just want to upate everyone about my situation...so, I got throat angina and few day after a very bad cold so I was on atibiotics ;/

But now I am feeling much better, and most of my thyroid medications connected issues are subsidising.

I still feel tired at times, bu nothing worth mention,

By th end of this week I should be starting on Novthyral 100mcg, taken in 2 doses daily,

I was wondering what should I expect? Are there any side effects from changing meds, shoul I expect more of the hyper symptome?

Any words woud be good just to make sure I have averyhing under control


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## Lovlkn

Hard to say if you will have any symptoms. You are fairly hypo at the moment and the addition of a T4/T3 combination medication may be what you need to get your Free T-4 and Free T-3 to higher levels, although your FT-4 will likely be on the lower side as is common with many T3/T4 combo drugs.


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## Indianrose

Can low fT4 be an issue later? I know it would be best it fT4 would be in half range and fT3 in upper range to feel good, but as said, I really dont know much abou combo medications, excep that they really do wonders for some people ( if not the most)


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## Indianrose

So, here it goes...sartd Novothral few days ago - I think I cant stand it 

It gives me energy but it also gives me some anxiety, jitteryness, muscle/nerve twiching, restless leg sindrome etc.

I read that T3 can supercharge antidepressants so maybe this is the case now, since I am taking 15mg escitalopram daily for 3 years.

I didnt have my thy.horm. levels checked because I thik its still early, especially since I jus sarted Novothyral - maybe I should do that? Anyway, my post,op check up is on 17th this month so I will wait at least 7 days.

I had my elektrolites checked together with calcium and Iron- they are fine.


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## Indianrose

Hello,its me back again..have a few questions so if there s anyone that knows the answer I will appreciate 

First of all, I started Novothyral 100mcg ( 75mcg t4 and 25mcg t3) on new years eve and it was too much for start, I had side effects, shakiness, anxiety, dryness of my mouth etc..Then I begun with 1/4 of the pill in thw morning and 1/4 in the afternoon and slowly increased to thw whole tablet twice a day...and went hyper 

My shakiness became so intense that there was nothing I could do, I got tremors,anxiety, weird stiff feeling in my jaw, stiffed,heavy and painful muscles in my thighs and arms, tremors in my body and outside etc... Since it was time for my post.op check up, I got my blood test and the results were( in attachment)

Considering my symptoms and blood results,both my doc and I agreed that I was hyper :/

So he put me on 1/4 in the.morning and 1/4 in the afternoon... It is better now but I am wondering how long does it take for fully recover from this hyper phase aka how long does it lasts with T3? 
I still have tightness in my muscles when I take my med in the morning I cannot dring any coffe cause it makes me absolutely crazy.


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## Indianrose

Here are my lab results


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## Lovlkn

Your FT-4 goal is 14.3 - 17.7

Your FT-3 goal is 4.15 -4.92

Looks like you need a slight decrease in your medication. Since you take a combination T4/T3 medication your goal should be to have your FT-3 at 3/4 range, people on combination med's usually run a lower FT-4.

I dont think splitting will make much of a difference, your FT-3 is too high


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## Indianrose

Thank you  so what do you suggest? Should I take just 1/4 of pill in the morning and 1/4 in the afternoon? Or?


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## Lovlkn

Maybe start with a 1/4 pill reduction 1x a day and retest.


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## Indianrose

Ok, Ill have that in mind...Im currently taking 2x 1/4 twice a day so Ill wait and see how that goes in a while..

My endo said that he wants to have lower ft4 and a bit lower ft3 but also TSH between 1-2 so lets see how it goes now

Thank you again!


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## AlwaysTheOpposite

Indianrose said:


> Hello,its me back again..have a few questions so if there s anyone that knows the answer I will appreciate
> 
> First of all, I started Novothyral 100mcg ( 75mcg t4 and 25mcg t3) on new years eve and it was too much for start, I had side effects, shakiness, anxiety, dryness of my mouth etc..Then I begun with 1/4 of the pill in thw morning and 1/4 in the afternoon and slowly increased to thw whole tablet twice a day...and went hyper
> 
> My shakiness became so intense that there was nothing I could do, I got tremors,anxiety, weird stiff feeling in my jaw, stiffed,heavy and painful muscles in my thighs and arms, tremors in my body and outside etc... Since it was time for my post.op check up, I got my blood test and the results were( in attachment)
> 
> Considering my symptoms and blood results,both my doc and I agreed that I was hyper :/
> 
> So he put me on 1/4 in the.morning and 1/4 in the afternoon... It is better now but I am wondering how long does it take for fully recover from this hyper phase aka how long does it lasts with T3?
> I still have tightness in my muscles when I take my med in the morning I cannot dring any coffe cause it makes me absolutely crazy.


I feel your pain, my first post TT blood work results were solidly hypothyroid a couple weeks ago, although I felt better than I had since my hyperthyroidism started! So my doc increased my levo and now I feel like I'm on the verge of a heart attack. The joys of finding that "right" dose. I wish I had any advice, but I'm useless. I can certainly commiserate though!


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## Indianrose

I am now on only 1/4 of the pill and I do feel much better, brighter and happier. Ill see how it urns out on blood tests, but I hope that it will be enough for now 

I had a lot of side effects with Levo, most of them I couldnt take anymore, and the higher the dose the stronger they would ge...I will go on NT but after I get my levels stable. Befor that, no no.


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## Indianrose

So here I am, almost 4 months after my TT.

I still dont feel my best,runing from hypo to hyper even on same dosages of Novothyral.I am about to make another blood tests so we will see how that goes.

My anxiety has decreased a lot so that is very good, now I can work on repairing the damage with m phobias etc.

But I don't understan the pain in my thighs and overall in my legs, it doesn't depend on anything I do or take,I just wake up feeling this weird pain and weakness in my thighs like..I've been running non stop and now they are weak and painfull.. I think you know what I mean.

Also, my face is twiching a lot, my eyes, lips and chin.

My calcium was always perfect, but I will re-test.

Also, I get this weird sensation in my mouth or jaw - like something is pulling my teeth out, my gums hurt and the root of my teeth. Also,my jaw joints hurt a lot.

That all strted after my TT.

Sometimes I get confused a lot, like I am not sure what I was doing or where I left things, sometimes my sleep is very shallow and poor or I wake up in the middle of the night and cant fall back to sleep, feeling cranky and very uptight. My first two periods were a blessing and the last two were like someone slaughtered me . Also there is a feeling of derealisation sometimes.

I don't know what to say, some thing are better but there is a bunch load if new symptoms which I didnt see coming..I thought that my TT will help with decreasing old symptoms and not adding new,weird ones... But uta still eary..

Any thoughts will be appreciated


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## joplin1975

Well, you know if can take up to 18 months to figure this out.

A lot of your symptoms do sound like your meds are off. Its hard to say if you are hypo or hyper, but definitively off.

When are your next labs?


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## Indianrose

My last tests were on 15.1. And they showed hyper. Than my doc said to remove 1/2 of pill and take 1/4 twice a day..Since I didnt feel better, I cut back on 1/4 once a day.. Now its time o recheck.

Is it possible thatbone same dose can make such a huge difference considering on how much time has passed from surgery?


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## Indianrose

I mean, sometines the same dosage is enough sometimes is too much,sometimes is too low. Does it really take 18 months like this? Am I really going to do check ups every 2 months?


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## joplin1975

It is entirely possible, I'm sorry to say. I was on monthly checks for about a year and a half...then every three months for about six months...and then three times a year for a year, etc etc etc.

Little differences in medication can make major difference in symptoms. Sometimes it happens immediately and other times its much, much slower...


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## Indianrose

Oh, you don't have to be sorry I am honestly glad to read this because I thought I was going crazy  Now I know what to expect and it really makes a huge difference in my perspective on things.

Thank you a lot for this even though it sounds weird!!


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## joplin1975

I had sort of gotten to the point where I was resigned that life would never be normal again.  Turns out, I got there eventually. Hang in there!


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## Lovlkn

It took me several years to find my current dose. I was extremely slow to make any changes.

Your symptoms of thigh and muscle pain sound like what I had while hypo.

Hang in there!


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## Indianrose

Did both of you did something with diet, i.e. Gluten free or AIP or sommilar?

Which supplements dir you take to make it better?


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## Lovlkn

No diet changes - I was tested for gluten sensitivities and was negative.

My situation improved with the addition of T3 hormone. Until it was added I felt horrible and my FT-3 was low range with a high range FT-4 so adding T3 hormone and lowering my levothyroxine dose was what I needed. Been on the same dose since 2009 with FT-4 and FT-3 always falling between 1/2 to 3/4 of the range. My TSH is always wells below low range but my doctor doses on the Free's and ignores TSH - SO thankful for that.


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## jenny v

It took me a little over 18 months and I didn't start feeling better until my reverse T3 was cleared and my Free T3 was in a good range. It can also take a while for your antibodies to settle down so your body can accept the medication. Are they testing your reverse T3 and antibodies?


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## Indianrose

Hey Jenny, no, no antibodis and rT3 have been ested so far... but I thought about that, also my ferritin is very LOW, I am taking iron supplements but not seem to stock up...my cortisol was lower-ish ( from urine, low.rng. 24,my was 30.) so that is something I need to adress.

But my doctor thinks it will all get in place once my hyroid is out and all we need to do is adjust meds...I know is still early


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## Indianrose

Hello to everyone...its me back aganin with some news...

Most of the time I feel OK, my energy levels are stable if I sleep ok and enough-if I dont I am zombie all day...I still crash arround 17pm unil 19h - than its like somebody woke me up- I am back to my old self.

MY PMS is still pain in the *ss but I am hanging in there...

I do have some things like images from the past, my dreams,memories etc. just pop up in my head, like flashbacks and images but not with emotional breakdowns or anything like that...I noticed that sometimes I can not make a normal sentence, i.e. I swallow words ?!? That is new and weird. I am a bi more forgetfull, but since I had almost photographic memory I find it as a blessing to keep my mind in peace and not wondering all the time.

A lot of times I still feel spaced out, especially when there are a lo of things to be done.

I dont have a lot of body acheh, my heart palps are minimal,

My anxiety is very low, almost gone.. But my panic atacks are still here. I think they will go away once my adrenals start to work OK,.

Next week is my blood work check.

Ill test for everything there is so Ill get back.

Hang in there

Lots of love!


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## Lovlkn

Curious to see what your lab results look like.


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## Indianrose

Heh...severe hypo...but except my heart palps and some mental issues, im not so bad  I felt worse with thyroid and normal range hormones.


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## Indianrose

Here they are


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## joplin1975

Whoa. Those are some crummy results!!!


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## Indianrose

Yes, I talked with my endo last nigh, he asked how I felt, I said a bit more tired, maybe some more anxiety and some cognitive issues, cranky and nervous a bit more, but that is it..he upped my dose on 1/2 pill in the morning and 1/4 in the pm.

He asked me did I have my period lately and I said hat it has just finished, he asked how long did it last ( 9 days!!!! with very heavy bleeding) and he suspects that is why I had such a crash ( loosing hormones with blood).

But hey, now it can get only better. hope this time side effects will be a bit more tolerable 

All in all, I dont feel that bad as before, as I said, with thyroid and normal ranges. I still have energy, I am not constantly anxious, I laugh a lot, my low moods are very rare.

I feel OK


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## Lovlkn

Are you supplementing any iron? Your ferritin levels will naturally fall with a monthly cycle but I bet your levels are low all the time. Low ferritin levels can cause heavy and longer periods.


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## Indianrose

Yes I do,all the time...but this is also the first time it has rised on 15,5! It has always been very very low. So this is actually a good sign to me  maybe finally Im making some reserves


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## Lovlkn

Indianrose said:


> Yes I do,all the time...but this is also the first time it has rised on 15,5! It has always been very very low. So this is actually a good sign to me  maybe finally Im making some reserves


Let's hope.

I struggled taking iron supplements - the constipation was horrible which caused alot of general ill feeling. Ablation was my solution. I now have ferritin in high range levels without taking any in supplements.

Being a woman is tougher than most men give us credit for. ;-)


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## Indianrose

I`m thinking MIrena, but not sure how it will affect other hormones...I am still waiting for my levels to become more stable so I can work on repairing the damage with other ones...For now, I do not feel comfortable putting things in me that will mess with thyroid hormones.

Ablation is something I didnt even discuss with my gyn. He is also not very comfortable to do anything until mz thy.hor. are stable...I dont know if this is good or bad, but for now I am ok with it.


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## Indianrose

So, my endo put me on 3/4 of pill...half in the morning and rest in the PM. I feel awful, having side effects, dizzines, nausea, tremors, confusion etc..so I am back on 2x 1/4 and then I will go up again.

Uff...


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## Indianrose

Hello, I'm back with some news..I feel.much better, stronger etc. Side effects have subsidized and tjat is great.. But what I noticed is that I have gained weight :/ almost 5kg which for me is a lot since I already have 15 kg more .. But- my clothes still fits me so I think its water from this hormonal imbalance and fluctuations ( first hyper than hypo).. I don't exercise regularly because I dont want to force my body right now, eat mostly healthy( I cook everyday,soups,vegetables etc.).

But this water is something I.need to address because I feel and.look.like a jelly..

Do you have any advice?


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## Lovlkn

Being hypo certainly can make the weight gain return. Give it some time and it should fall off once your thyroid levels are euthyroid


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## Indianrose

Still hypo...tommorow Ill start with higher dose again..also, my gyn wants me to start duphastone ( progesterone) for my heavy bleeding oral..I dont know wben to take it after my thyroide hormones. He said 1 hour after, but I think its too soon after...

Oh gosh..so many stuff...


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## Indianrose

Another thing..my ovulations are horrible..I feel sick to my stomach, like throwing up, my head hurts like hell, I have dizzy spells...maybe the progesterone will help with that also?


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