# confused about low free t4 but high free t3 (does anyone have this problem?)



## Phyl (Apr 22, 2017)

My labs of last week were

Free T4 (FT4) 0.70 referance range is: 0.80-1.60

Free T3 (FT3) 4.6 reference range is: 1.8-3.8

TSH 3rd Gen(TSH3G) 4.51 reference range is: 0.38-4.31


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## Phyl (Apr 22, 2017)

I'm new to this forum and I forgot to post my age77 and female. I'm hoping someone can explain my low free T4 and high free T3. Thanks. I was on Naturethroid and am afraid to take anymore. My Dr. dismissed me because I could not take the levothyroxine because it gave me a migraine.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

I merged your posts to combine your info so it's easier for people to respond.



> My labs of last week were
> 
> Free T4 (FT4) 0.70 referance range is: 0.80-1.60
> 
> ...


Is this what your labs usually look like or has something changed? They are a bit odd, with your TSH being so high, your FT-3 being so high and your FT-4 being so low.

What I see above is a FT-3 above range, did you take your NDT prior to your lab draw?

Have you ever had an ultrasound? TPO, Thyroglobulin antibodies?

What other medications or supplements do you regularly take?


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## Phyl (Apr 22, 2017)

Thanks for your reply. I always take my thyroid meds around 3-4 am. I have never had ultrasound TPO or thyroglobulin antibodies. (not familiar with any of these) I always feel pretty good and that is probably why my thyroid dr. did not order any of these tests. I had to have 2 back surgeries in 2016 for spinal stenosis and were a success. Because I did not want to get hooked on narcotic meds I chose to take several herbs etc. for pain and they worked very well but I suspect they messed up my thyroid numbers. The ones I suspect is Noni juice and Borax. The only medication that I'm on is the Nature throid. ( I was taking one grain and since last week I am taking one half grain because of the high free t3. My dr dismissed me because the levothyroxine that he switched me to gave me migrains. I tried to convince him to just have me take less of the nature throid but he would not agree. I cannot function with headaches and I told him that. I tried to get in an alternative dr. but they wanted $400 up front and I cannot afford that as medicare does not cover alternative care. I'm hoping that my general practichoner dr. will work with me but do not know. I will have another blood test in about 8 weeks and talk to him about it. I went off of the noni juice and borax and I'm only taking epa fish oils, apple cider vinegar and turmeric and I use sea salt for arthritis and it seems to be working for the arthritis pain. I'm also taking several other herbs and vitamins and they have never been a problem. I also take 500units of vitamin D3. 2 magnesium tablets. Vitamin C. Alpha Lipoic acid, acetyl L carnitine. B complex. ashwagondha. pro-biotics. selenium (200 mcg.) one iodoral 12.5. I pray there is an answer to my problem.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Well... you are a doctors nightmare as far as supplements - LOL, so am I in a way as I have taken many that you mention.

Since you recently added supplements, hopefully that's all it is.

Do your previous labs have the same high TSH and low FT-4 and high FT-3? 4.6 is quite a bit above range - if it were me, I would reduce my Naturethyroid or at least stop the supplements most recently added and retest in 4-6 weeks. If you live in the right state, you can order the Free tests for around $60 at Healthonelabs.com

TPO shows autoimmune and also inflammation levels. Sometimes a spike in TPO will throw off previously stable labs.

Thyroglobulin is a tumor marker for cancer - if you have nodule's it will also show those and I believe 99% of us thyroid patients have nodules so it's good to know if they are "normal" looking as an ultrasound will reveal if they look abnormal.

I never had either - yet upon removal my thyroid was reported to me as filled and destroyed by nodules so I count myself lucky I did not develop cancer.


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## Phyl (Apr 22, 2017)

I've been taking most of the supplements for many years and they were not a problem until I went on all the ones for pain. I did reduce the Nature throid to one half the dose and will retest in about 8 weeks. I also did stop taking the pain meds (Noni juice and Borax) but will continue to take the apple cider vinegar and fish oil because they are both good for inflamation and arthritis. If my family dr. can't help me I will keep searching for someone that I can possible afford since medicare will not pay for anything alternative. I did find an online site that will check my blood and give results for free t3 and free t4 plus TSH. As far as I know I do not have nodules. I do feel pretty good most of the time and I also sleep at least 6-7 hours a night. I just need to get someone to help me with getting the numbers straightened out. Thanks for the update. It's a little scary trying to be my own dr.

Phyl


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

There are multiple online sites that offer self pay thyroid testing.

https://www.healthonelabs.com/tests_offer/buytest/220/

$64.95 for TSH, FT-4 and FT-3. I've used them and they are as good as any, and the least expensive right now.


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## Phyl (Apr 22, 2017)

Thanks for this information. If the Dr. won't work with me I will use this lab. That is a good price. I think I might have found my problem. I was researching one of the supplements that I added recently for insomnia and it is called Ashwagandha. Anyways this is what I found: Naturally I won't be taking that anymore and hopefully this is what has caused my numbers to be off. I hope this is it. The ashwagandha did help me sleep good but not worth the problem if this is it. Thanks, Phyl I hope this discussion helps someone else.

Ashwagandha might cause sleepiness and drowsiness. Drugs that cause sleepiness and drowsiness are called sedatives. Taking ashwagandha along with sedative medications might cause too much sleepiness.








Minor Interaction Be watchful with this combination


Thyroid hormone interacts with ASHWAGANDHA
The body naturally produces thyroid hormones. Ashwagandha might increase how much thyroid hormone the body produces. Taking ashwagandha with thyroid hormone pills might cause too much thyroid hormone in the body, and increase the effects and side effects of thyroid hormone.

This last sentence is what has happened and probably threw my meds off. Hopefully I will be able to tell on the next bloodwork in about 8 weeks. I don't know if I should wait that long? Anybody have an answer to how long I should wait to get the bloodwork?


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

And just so you know, your NDT will reduce TSH and free t4 and raise free t3. You want to dose based upon free t3, not the other labs.

You can re-test in six weeks, but be sure not to take your meds before you have your blood drawn.


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## Phyl (Apr 22, 2017)

I'm sorry but does NDT stand for Nature throid ? I do not know what NDT appreviation means? Also does Nature throid cause too much Free t3? I have migraines if I take levithroxine is why the Dr. put me on Nature throid.

Until this episode of lower free t4 my numbers for the free t4 has always been low and the free t3 high but not this low on the free t4 or high free t3 . I've always felt good on the Nature throid and do not know what else to take because of the migraines. I cannot function with migraine headaches. I'm assuming that the Ashwagandha is what threw my numbers off this much. I hope there is an answer. Also I was never told never to take my meds before testing. Could that be why my free t3 is always too high? Next time I get my blood tested I will not take my thyroid meds until after testing. Thanks so much for your reply.


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

Sorry, that means Natural Desiccated Thyroid, of which Nature Throid is one.  Unlike Synthroid, which is a t4-only med, NDTs have a combination of T3 and T4. So dosing guidelines are a little different.

Your supplements can certainly impact your numbers. I'm not familiar with exactly HOW yours would or could skew your numbers, so I can't comment. I just wanted you to know that low TSH and free t4 on NDT is what is suppose to happen. The trick is not getting too much t3.


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

I would stay away from any kind of adrenal supplements (which ashwaganda is), unless you know you've got adrenal issues. They can affect thyroid medicine and thyroid hormone production in such weird and wild ways that it's safer to stay away.

I might have missed it but do you take your Naturethroid before you do labs or wait until after?


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## Phyl (Apr 22, 2017)

I always took my meds around 3-4am but didn't know I was suppose to wait to take meds until after testing. I will wait from now on to take it after the blood test. Do you or anyone else know what natural substance I can take to add to my Nature throid to get my Free t4 up to at least the middle range as I get migrains on the levethroxine?

I do not do well on any synthetic meds as they all give me headaches. I couldn't even take the Armor and that is why the dr. switched me to the Nature throid and I always felt good on it and I still feel pretty good even though my numbers aren's right. I will also quit taking the ashwagandha. I do not know how to tell if my adrenals are low.

Thanks for your reply. Phyl


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

Don't worry too much about FT4 and TSH on Naturethroid. It's a naturally dessicated thyroid med so it naturally suppresses both of those; concentrate on keeping your FT3 up instead.


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## Phyl (Apr 22, 2017)

I'm so happy I found this thyroid forum as I got enough information that explained that taking Naturethroid always supresses the TSH and also the Free T4. I did not know this and my endo never told me not to take my Naturethroid until after the blood test. I will now concentrate on getting my Free T3 in range. Thanks again everyone for the good info that you sent me. I also think my numbers will improve after being off of the Ashwagandha which probably made my numbers off.

Phyl


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