# glutens effect on Hashimotos



## laff66

I just got my results back from entero labs and I feel like I've been punched in the stomach. It shows sensitivity to ALL four items tested; gluten, cows milk, egg, and soy. I seriously want to throw up. 
As much reading as I've done, I'm still confused on Hashi's and its relation to gluten. Obviously eliminating these immune-stimulating items would improve my condition, but is it possible that doing so would reduce the need for thyroid hormone? I'm sure its different for everyone, but has anyone experienced such improvement by going gluten free that their Hashi's calmed down significantly? My tpo result was over 800, and I'm wondering what going gluten would affect that, if at all.


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## jmill

laff66 said:


> I just got my results back from entero labs and I feel like I've been punched in the stomach. It shows sensitivity to ALL four items tested; gluten, cows milk, egg, and soy. I seriously want to throw up.
> As much reading as I've done, I'm still confused on Hashi's and its relation to gluten. Obviously eliminating these immune-stimulating items would improve my condition, but is it possible that doing so would reduce the need for thyroid hormone? I'm sure its different for everyone, but has anyone experienced such improvement by going gluten free that their Hashi's calmed down significantly? My tpo result was over 800, and I'm wondering what going gluten would affect that, if at all.


I'm not an expert but here's my experience with this. I'm diagnosed sub-clinical hypothyroid. I'm gluten sensitive and possibly celiac. My brother is definately full blown celiac so I'm familiar with the worst symptoms of that condition. I know for a fact that when I go gluten free I feel better. I've been gluten free for over eighteen months but I cheated a couple of times and suffered for it (about two days after eating the glutens each time). I don't think you worsen your thyroid condition eating glutens and I don't think it gets better by being gluten free. I believe the conditions are common together but not a result of one another. Most people with autoimmune diseases have more than one disease. These two just develop together with a high number of thyroid patients. Just a thought here: don't dwell on what you can't eat. My brother does that and spends way too much time agonizing over what he can't have. Dwell on what you CAN eat and eat lots of those things. It's like someone telling you that you can't have a drink for ten hours due to a test and you're suddenly very thirsty. Focus on the positive. Good luck with everything.


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## Andros

laff66 said:


> I just got my results back from entero labs and I feel like I've been punched in the stomach. It shows sensitivity to ALL four items tested; gluten, cows milk, egg, and soy. I seriously want to throw up.
> As much reading as I've done, I'm still confused on Hashi's and its relation to gluten. Obviously eliminating these immune-stimulating items would improve my condition, but is it possible that doing so would reduce the need for thyroid hormone? I'm sure its different for everyone, but has anyone experienced such improvement by going gluten free that their Hashi's calmed down significantly? My tpo result was over 800, and I'm wondering what going gluten would affect that, if at all.


It could improve things significantly. To me the more important question is, "Hashi's effect on glutens!" Sadly, we no longer process things the way healthy people do.

I am gluten-free, artificial sweetner-free and all sodiums (MSG etc.) and other additives-free and soy-free. We need sodium chloride which is salt and I prefer the sea salt version but we don't need all those other chemicals that our bodies absolutely do not process well at all and they build up to toxic levels.

So.................off the platform here! The answer is yes. Clean up the diet and those antibodies will thank you.

Do one thing at a time so you can be a good scientist. Go gluten-free for 2 months and get the TPO lab. Then you will know for sure.


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## sjmjuly

I have Hashi's and went gluten free as soon as I found out I had it. Us unlucky people that have this cannot process things like we used to. The gluten is poison to our system and leaks into our bloodstream where I antibodies see it as an "invader" and attack it. Thyroids have a similar molecular make up to gluten and our antibodies don't know the difference. To them, a thyroid looks like a big glob of gluten so they attack it. 
Once you go gluten free, you will feel so much better. I also take Selenium which is supposed to help bring down the antibodies and help stop the attack. That's the ticket: Stopping the attack. Once you do that, it's half the battle. IF you caught in time and your thyroid isn't destroyed, you may save your thyroid and you may not have to take medication. I take a very low dose of Nature Throid (1/2 grain which equates to 32mcgs) and feel pretty good. But the main thing for people with Hashi's with gluten issues is to get off the gluten.


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## laff66

Thank you guys for the replies. Its been about 24 hours since I got the horrible results, and I've very slightly gotten my mind around the gluten thing as I knew it was a strong possibility when I got the Hashi news several months ago. The other three allergens were included in the price of the labs so I really didn't have any idea the soy, egg, and dairy thing was coming. I have been so depressed I can hardly function. I know its probably normal to be shocked at such a life-changing thing, but DAIRY?? COME ON!!! Cheese?, whipped cream?, sour cream? CHEESE????!! This is horrible. My results for the other three were only slightly higher than "normal" whereas gluten was much higher, so Andros I like your idea of one at a time, as it might soften the blow a little and give me some positive results to work off of if the gluten thing helps me. 
Entero Labs says its wishful thinking that a slightly higher than normal test result is better than a high result, but hey, I can dream....


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## Rdonnelly

I just got diagnosed with Hashi's and started taking selenium but I don't even wanna think about cutting out glutens, I struggle enough with eating "healthy". What kind of gluten test did you take? Costs?

thanks!!


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## laff66

I used entero labs. I read a lot of controversial info on blood tests, and didn't have the willpower to just try it without some evidence. It is a stool test which is less than pleasant, but I felt it had to be done. There are different combinations you can buy, I got tested for the four allergens listed above for $269. There's a gluten only test for $99 I think? I seriously wish I'd done that and wouldn't be so traumatized right now!!
Just got back from whole foods as im about to go to my daughters volleyball tournament for eight hours and I have NO IDEA what I'm supposed to eat while there! 
Here's their website:
www.enterolab.com


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## Andros

laff66 said:


> Thank you guys for the replies. Its been about 24 hours since I got the horrible results, and I've very slightly gotten my mind around the gluten thing as I knew it was a strong possibility when I got the Hashi news several months ago. The other three allergens were included in the price of the labs so I really didn't have any idea the soy, egg, and dairy thing was coming. I have been so depressed I can hardly function. I know its probably normal to be shocked at such a life-changing thing, but DAIRY?? COME ON!!! Cheese?, whipped cream?, sour cream? CHEESE????!! This is horrible. My results for the other three were only slightly higher than "normal" whereas gluten was much higher, so Andros I like your idea of one at a time, as it might soften the blow a little and give me some positive results to work off of if the gluten thing helps me.
> Entero Labs says its wishful thinking that a slightly higher than normal test result is better than a high result, but hey, I can dream....


Just do the gluten thing and see what happens. Your intolerence to gluten may be triggering the other allergens.


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## Andros

Andros said:


> Just do the gluten thing and see what happens. Your intolerence to gluten may be triggering the other allergens.


I meant to tell you you are going to have to read all labels. Even yogurts and other dairy products have gluten in them. Read read and read again.

Get familiar with the "other" names for gluten.

Believe this or not, my scalp was breaking out from using a shampoo that has gluten in it.

Read this:

http://www.glutenfreedailyblog.com/2010/06/gluten-by-another-name.html


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## laff66

Just about to go to bed and saw your reply--Oh that would be the greatest news EVER If gluten was responsible for the other positive antibodies! I started gluten free this morning and it has been a beating, having to look up everything I put in my mouth. I feel so lost as I digest all this info. 
Here's the weird thing- the swollen knee x 4 wks I've posted about before is SIGNIFICANTLY better tonight?! There's no way one day of gluten free could be a factor but it has been 100% the same for over 3 wks and tonight it has decreased swelling and pain? I have an appt with an ortho surgeon on mon morn so that figures! I also switched from armour 90 to levothyroxin 150 8 days ago, but that's the only other change. 
I'll reply back on how it goes tomorrow. No questions believe it or not, but I hoped maybe the story might help someone else down the road that is searching for answers (or hope!).


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## Andros

laff66 said:


> Just about to go to bed and saw your reply--Oh that would be the greatest news EVER If gluten was responsible for the other positive antibodies! I started gluten free this morning and it has been a beating, having to look up everything I put in my mouth. I feel so lost as I digest all this info.
> Here's the weird thing- the swollen knee x 4 wks I've posted about before is SIGNIFICANTLY better tonight?! There's no way one day of gluten free could be a factor but it has been 100% the same for over 3 wks and tonight it has decreased swelling and pain? I have an appt with an ortho surgeon on mon morn so that figures! I also switched from armour 90 to levothyroxin 150 8 days ago, but that's the only other change.
> I'll reply back on how it goes tomorrow. No questions believe it or not, but I hoped maybe the story might help someone else down the road that is searching for answers (or hope!).


Oh sure!!! An allergy causes inflammation and inflammation can cause edema and painful swelling. Yes, indeed.

Let us travel this pathway w/you; I would like it very much if your personal experience w/this would help others see the light.


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## TiredofThis

laff66 said:


> I just got my results back from entero labs and I feel like I've been punched in the stomach. It shows sensitivity to ALL four items tested; gluten, cows milk, egg, and soy. I seriously want to throw up.
> As much reading as I've done, I'm still confused on Hashi's and its relation to gluten. Obviously eliminating these immune-stimulating items would improve my condition, but is it possible that doing so would reduce the need for thyroid hormone? I'm sure its different for everyone, but has anyone experienced such improvement by going gluten free that their Hashi's calmed down significantly? My tpo result was over 800, and I'm wondering what going gluten would affect that, if at all.


Funny, That you mention this because Im actually on day 6 of a detox that my doctor told me to do. All it is just eating pretty much gluten free and lots of veggies and vitamins. Ok well anyways, before this I normally would skip 1 day out of the week of my meds. my dr has me on .88 mcg synthroid and like i said i skip one day of the week, if i dont i notice i get anxiety and palpitations. so i started this detox and im on day 6, i noticed that I was getting more palpitations and it was close to my skip day so i went ahead and skipped. the next day i only had a couple vs the day before. so i figured i would take my meds the next day and it started up again so i skipped yesterday and today, Im going to wait til tomorrow to ask my dr that because i get them less on the days that i skip. All I can tell you is that going gluten free so far... I feel pretty good, I can feel my body coming out of that sluggishness... Ill have to follow up after day 10 to give you a full report if your interested.

well if anyone knows about this please let us know


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## laff66

Great. Day 3 of gluten free started with serious cramping and diarrhea-- I didn't ever get that while eating gluten! What the??!! It also came with serious fatigue. Maybe it's from the MASSIVE depression I've been feeling since I got the lab results. I know that sounds whiny and overly dramatic, but I love to eat, love to try new restaurants, and that is all over with. Plus I have to break it to the guys at my fire station where eating and the daily meals are a serious family/bonding event. I know I'm being stupid about this and will just have to accept it.


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## bigfoot

Somewhere in my readings I believe I've seen that changing the gut flora or balance can cause your body to do things like purge, detox itself, etc. I've also seen accounts of people dealing with Candida overgrowth in the gut who address it, and the resulting die-off of bad bacteria leaching into the body can cause fatigue, temporary depression, goofy bowel habits, etc.

Interestingly, someone I saw the other day made the comment about how there is a pretty big area between having something like Celiac Disease and no gluten sensitivity whatsoever. Leaves a lot of room for your body to object to gluten-like foods. Also mentioned that things like gluten are similar to what the body's immune system is trying to attack. No big surprise to the folks here, but it made me think.

I give you folks who go gluten-free a TON of credit. That can't be an easy task!

hugs3


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## laff66

I'm curious if anyone else got worse before getting better when going gluten free. I'm on day 4 now, and after having diarrhea and cramping yesterday, I still don't feel like eating. Maybe I just got a bug or something, but geez, eliminating gluten was supposed to make things better!
I've been scouring the internet looking for the slightest reason to ignore the entero labs results i got, and there are quite a few qualified people who doubt the validity of the stool anti-gliadin tests, but I've committed to doing this for a least a month to see what happens.
Luckily, since going on thyroid meds, my sweet tooth which was pretty darn strong, has gone AWAY, making GF a little less traumatic. I mean, my wife seriously would have to hide the boxes of little debbie stuff from me because they were for our kids lunches. I could smell them out from 20 yards! And never having had a weight problem, I felt like i could eat whatever I wanted. I'm wondering now if the gluten stuff was just keeping me from absorbing the food I was eating. I just figured the 3 or 4 (or even 5) bathroom trips per day were my "fast metabolism." And now I'm not hungry--hmmmm.....


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## Andros

laff66 said:


> I'm curious if anyone else got worse before getting better when going gluten free. I'm on day 4 now, and after having diarrhea and cramping yesterday, I still don't feel like eating. Maybe I just got a bug or something, but geez, eliminating gluten was supposed to make things better!
> I've been scouring the internet looking for the slightest reason to ignore the entero labs results i got, and there are quite a few qualified people who doubt the validity of the stool anti-gliadin tests, but I've committed to doing this for a least a month to see what happens.
> Luckily, since going on thyroid meds, my sweet tooth which was pretty darn strong, has gone AWAY, making GF a little less traumatic. I mean, my wife seriously would have to hide the boxes of little debbie stuff from me because they were for our kids lunches. I could smell them out from 20 yards! And never having had a weight problem, I felt like i could eat whatever I wanted. I'm wondering now if the gluten stuff was just keeping me from absorbing the food I was eating. I just figured the 3 or 4 (or even 5) bathroom trips per day were my "fast metabolism." And now I'm not hungry--hmmmm.....


It can affect your appetite. It is a fact that the very food you are allergic to is what you want to eat more and more and more of. When you quit it, that desire is no longer there.

I do hope you hang in there for your health's sake. When you realize in about 30 days how great you feel, you will never eat gluten again.

Give it a chance!


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## sjmjuly

Oh yeah. Absolutely. The first few days I felt like crap and didn't want to eat. It takes awhile for things to get back to normal. Gluten can take MONTHS to get out of your system. Remember that you didn't get this over night and you won't feel better over night either. Give it time. I know that is easier said than done, but it's worth it. I will never go back to eating gluten. The trip to the fancy restaurant isn't worth the misery afterwards. Besides, there are a TON of restaurants out there now that are either gluten free or have gluten free options. You will get the hang of it.


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## Babecakes136843

laff66 said:


> I'm curious if anyone else got worse before getting better when going gluten free. I'm on day 4 now, and after having diarrhea and cramping yesterday, I still don't feel like eating. Maybe I just got a bug or something, but geez, eliminating gluten was supposed to make things better!
> I've been scouring the internet looking for the slightest reason to ignore the entero labs results i got, and there are quite a few qualified people who doubt the validity of the stool anti-gliadin tests, but I've committed to doing this for a least a month to see what happens.
> Luckily, since going on thyroid meds, my sweet tooth which was pretty darn strong, has gone AWAY, making GF a little less traumatic. I mean, my wife seriously would have to hide the boxes of little debbie stuff from me because they were for our kids lunches. I could smell them out from 20 yards! And never having had a weight problem, I felt like i could eat whatever I wanted. I'm wondering now if the gluten stuff was just keeping me from absorbing the food I was eating. I just figured the 3 or 4 (or even 5) bathroom trips per day were my "fast metabolism." And now I'm not hungry--hmmmm.....


What ARE you eating? Did you ad anything new to "replace" items you were eating when you were eating gluten? Personally, I have zero problems with gluten but I ended up finding out finally that I have an insane intolerance to Splenda. SInce I figured it out and stopped eating anything with artificial sweeteners (all of them but its really the splenda I had a problem with) I feel 100% better! If I have anything with splenda in a big enough dose it gives me the worst abdominal cramps and diarrhea. Maybe there are other tihings in your diet also causing you stress?


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## laff66

As before, just as a follow up in case anyone is searching threads in the future maybe it will help...

Day 5 of gluten free came with a sore throat and sneezing all day?? Dont know what thats all about as I almost NEVER get sick? Strangest thing is the low back pain that I've had for SEVEN YEARS is near gone. WHAT THE HECK??!! I've been taking hydrocodone for it for years, and the last 3 mornings (which are ALWAYS 8 out of 10 pain) I've taken NONE, except 1 at night as I am having a TON of trouble sleeping all of a sudden. I guess the joint pain thing is true about gluten.
Andros, as I've seen you do in other discussions, you have gotten it exactly right when you suggested that I try just eliminating gluten, as it may be causing the other reactions (egg, soy, milk). Entero Labs stated the same thing in an email yesterday. I am still deathly afraid that is wishful thinking, but I'm just doing gluten now. 
I am really having a hard time figuring out what to eat, other than meat, fruit/veg, and stuff that is clearly marked GF. Still trying to learn, but how the heck am I ever supposed to eat something in a package if "natural and artificial flavors" MIGHT contain gluten?? Plus I don't know if I'm 100% GF because I seriously doubt that I'm very sensitive to it yet, and probably wouldn't know it if I got some. 
Ohhhhh, and the cross-contamination paranoia is killing me. I'm terrified that the butter or peanut butter, or whatever else has a bread crumb in it and is negating all this misery I'm dealing with. First day back at the fire station today since GF, and if I have to have a sterile utensil drawer, etc, I'm screwed.....


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## Andros

Kimmie827 said:


> What ARE you eating? Did you ad anything new to "replace" items you were eating when you were eating gluten? Personally, I have zero problems with gluten but I ended up finding out finally that I have an insane intolerance to Splenda. SInce I figured it out and stopped eating anything with artificial sweeteners (all of them but its really the splenda I had a problem with) I feel 100% better! If I have anything with splenda in a big enough dose it gives me the worst abdominal cramps and diarrhea. Maybe there are other tihings in your diet also causing you stress?


Ditto on the artificial sweetners. If I "must" have something, I have bit of honey or some dark chocolate (gluten free.)


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## jenny v

I'm on day 5 of being gluten free and so far have not noticed any difference, except that I'm hungry ALL THE TIME. Not just a "I could grab a bite" kind of hunger, but a gnawing, rumbling, black hole in my stomach kind of hunger. Did anyone else experience this?

I'm eating just as much as I normally would, so I don't think it's a lack of food, but I wake up just starving in the morning and it goes from there.


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## cookfan56

I am bumping this thread up because I am so desperate to get my physical symptoms, but mostly the near-suicidal mental depression gone that I will try almost anything. Who here can recommend a book to start with for g-free? There are so many cookbooks I'm lost. I need to cook for a family that doesn't want to be g-free so that is a major problem. But more than a cookbook I need a "way-of-life" book. Is "going gluten-free for dummies" good?

Also, what about the book "going gluten-free on a budget" because when I go to Whole Foods and see the prices I about barf! Food prices now are so high anyway that once I start adding a bunch of gluten-free varieties of common products I'll barely be able to afford my mortgage.


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## Andros

cookfan56 said:


> I am bumping this thread up because I am so desperate to get my physical symptoms, but mostly the near-suicidal mental depression gone that I will try almost anything. Who here can recommend a book to start with for g-free? There are so many cookbooks I'm lost. I need to cook for a family that doesn't want to be g-free so that is a major problem. But more than a cookbook I need a "way-of-life" book. Is "going gluten-free for dummies" good?
> 
> Also, what about the book "going gluten-free on a budget" because when I go to Whole Foods and see the prices I about barf! Food prices now are so high anyway that once I start adding a bunch of gluten-free varieties of common products I'll barely be able to afford my mortgage.


We do it the simple way; just chicken, turkey, fish, any and all veggies and "real" dairy products. Lots of fresh fruit. Dried beans such as pinto, lima, Northern white; also lentils, split peas etc..

Get familiar w/all the different names for gluten.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/glutenfree-knowhow-what-are-other-names-for-wheat.html

http://gluten.lovetoknow.com/Other_Names_for_Gluten

Most people are wheat gluten intolerant which includes myself and my husband so we do eat steel cut oats, rice and corn meal (grits) or yellow.


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## cookfan56

Thanks for the reply, Andros. I will need to figure out how to cook the meats, etc. without using all the condiments I use to make them palatable (i.e. bread crumbs for meatloaf, condiments for turkey burgers, etc.) Do you basically eat all your chicken, turkey and fish either baked or broiled (or grilled) with just seasonings and nothing else?

Also I will look at the websites you linked. Thanks much.


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## nvsmom

Flax meal is a great substitute for bread crumbs, or you can buy gluten free bread crumbs. Most sauces are gf, but if they are not you can buy gf ones (like soy, teriyaki, worchestershire or barbque sauces), or make your own.

Gluten free recipe sites and cookbooks are easy to find and very helpful. Once you get used to eating gf, it's not too hard.


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## CA-Lynn

If you are "near suicidal depression" then you to get yourself to a psychologist and be treated.

Of course, I really sense that you are just using the expression tongue in cheek.


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## CA-Lynn

For everyone reading.....just because you have Hashimoto's, do not assume you have a gluten sensitivity. I'm living proof that you can have Hashimoto's for 20 years and not have a problem with glutens.


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## nvsmom

Many people who have Hashi's do not have a gluten intolerance BUT Hashi's patients are more likely to have celiac disease than the average population. I read on this site that "Estimates are that 10-14% of hypothyroids have Celiac, and it might be higher." That is a HUGE number considering that just 1/133 people in the regular population have celiac; and then it is now estimated that between 6 and 50% of the regular population have some sort of gluten sensitivity (meaning that it causes health problems and inflammation without the intestinal damage).... I'm guessing it's higher in Hashi's patients.

That inflammation can aggravate other autoimmune conditions like Hashi's, RA, or Lupus, so patients are advised to try it for a 3 month or longer trial to see if it helps. Gluten sensitivity does not always manifest itself as a gastrointestinal issue. For some it's shows as a neuropathy, others get migraines and fatigue, or sore muscles or joints, some have their vision affected or end up with osteopenia, rashes or any number of other symptoms.

I just mention this because going gluten-free can help some people so I think it shouldn't be dismissed. Not all hashi's patients have a gluten problem but many do, just like not all Hashi's patients experience hair thinning, but many do.

It is also discussed here:
http://thyroidbook.com/blog/tag/hashimotos/

Plus, wheat is now so gentically engineered that it's chromosomal count has triple from the wheat that our great grandparents ate... I hnestly don't know how they can still call it wheat! William Davis Md writes about it in his book Wheat Belly. It's a great book and an entertaining read; I actually laughed out loud a couple of times while reading it. I recommend that everyone should read it.


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## midgetmaid

Celiac disease is also linked to type I diabetes. In some parts of Europe, when a diagnosis of IDDM is made, tests are also run for celiac disease. Some researchers feel that when people have undiagnosed gluten sensitivity and continue to consume it, another autoimmune disease may be triggered.

Renee


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## surge

I just want to echo Andros' earlier remark (and the lab's) that an inflammatory reaction can beget others, so it isn't nec. that you're allergic to egg, soy, etc., you're just so inflamed that you are more sensitive to these allergens, and there are two paths: one would be a cleanse/elimination diet, where you take serious time off all allergens (2-6 months) and then add them back one by one once the body has had some time to heal. As you're cleansing, drink LOTS OF WATER, especially water with lemon. OR you could take a deep breath and just do gluten for awhile. If you aren't on a fish oil supplement, consider it, as it's a powerful anti-inflammant, also grate fresh ginger over everything, try almond milk smoothies with some grated or chopped in there-- that's one of my favorite ways to sneak in ginger, also in salad dressings, with black beans, etc.

Look at asian cuisines-- Indian, thai, etc.-- for inspiration and substitute polenta in for meals you make for others who can eat gluten. My kids love my spaghetti sauce--- I like it, too, I just serve mine with two rounds of pre-cooked polenta that I fry up quickly. also, I eat a lot of different nut butters: peanut, almond and sun. I throw a tbsp in smoothies, eat them on gf waffles or bread or smeared on apples. These snacks get me through.

Good luck!


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## markwillplay

I eat gluten free and have been since I found out that it MAY agitate my auto immune system. Dr. K wrote a very educational book on hashimotos and it explains why hashis folks are best to stay away from it regardless whether or not they have celiacs..I do not. I can tell you that my wife could not eat what I eat so I understand your plight having to cook for your family. I eat salmon (I get it smoked but it has very few presevatives (read ingredieents always). I eat smoked herring in the can..that's right..way better than sardines and I love it. I am not worried about the insode of the can (just kill me now). I eat organic spinach with coconut oil and red wine vinager on it. I eat a lot of sweet potatos with a non dairy butter sub that is also soy free (and the healthiest one I can find anywhere (wich I could remember the name). I eat non processed chicken, turkey as well. I eat lots of fruitbut be careful..sugar is sugar and I found that out the hard way. Highest blood sugar I have ever had was after I started eating so much fruit and cut out refined sugars (how bout them apples). I eat rice cakes and almond butter (love it). Those are the staples of my diet.

Oh, my usual breakfast is an avocado with turkey bacon crupled and mixed in with sea salt and lemon juice.....love it and they are great for you. Sometimes I do fry my sweet potato (in wedges) and when I do, I fry them in coconut oil (read about it..great for you although probably not best fried. Still, we must have some fun.

I do eat some turkey sausage sometimes fro protein and I get all the deer I can find. Very lean and good source of protien..obviously not processed. I drinkn almont or coconut milk.

I hardly ever eat dairy and my one real vice is that I like movie popcorn at the movies..probably the worst thing you can eat..but I don't eat it much.

I have not missed gluten at all ion the last6-7 months. I eat some gluten free natural granoly type cerial from time to time, but bread is gone.

I will tell you this, you can eat gluten free and still not eat healthy at al. My wife always wants to make me gluten free cookies, pasta, etc...she is very special and wants me to have some of the things that I used to love. Thing is,. if you go through a clensing type of diet and get used to eating whole natural foods...your taste buds will change..I promise you that. Your cravings will change for sure.


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## surge

I love the details in your response, Mark. Breakfast IS the most important meal of the day (if there's a meal to skip, it's probably dinner, but we tend to load up at that time...). My favorite breakfast is sweet potato, which I grate in the food processor and cook like hashbrowns, in a little bit of olive oil, seasoned with paprika, cayenne and salt. I plate the potatoes with raw spinach or half an avocado. I eat eggs, so I put two poached eggs on top. If you don't eat egg, a sausage or bacon would be good, too.

I'll also make another breakfast for more on the go mornings: 1 gf toaster waffle with 2 tbsp almond butter (or another nut butter) + a green smoothie [my simplest recipe: 1 banana, 1-2 handfuls of frozen spinach, 1/2 apple, 1c unsweetened almond milk, 1/4-1/2c coconut water or a fruit juice or water, 1 tbsp nut butter, small handful of ice). This smoothie recipe makes enough for 2, so I drink 1/2 and immediately seal the rest in a glass jar for the next morning. Sometimes I add fresh ginger to the smoothie and chia seeds. But really, I like this very basic recipe best].

Anyone else want to offer up the specifics of a meal or two that's gluten free without added sugar or much in the way of processed food?


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## piggley

Hello laff, you will be surprised at how quickly your body responds when you eliminate the allergens, good on you for getting the test done, you can stop the damage right now because you know what you are sensitive to.. otherwise you could end up like me-decades later with serious health problems because i just blundered around wondering what i had eaten that was making me sick. if I could turn back time the allergy test would have been top priority-i would have saved myself a lot of illness that i had no idea i was causing,
i know its a pain, try not to despair- occasionally you can eat these foods again after a while if you scrupulously avoid them for a sufficient length of time. Not fun, but you will feel so much better in the long run Im sure.


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## markwillplay

I would back up a bit on the potatoes for breakfast....or just make sure you add something with protein and good fat. Different subject, but a carb filled breakfast is a sugar breakfast. Not in the refined sense, but in the big picture, it is. I would make sure that I got good protein for my first meal. that is why I do the avocado/turkey bacon thing. I rarely take in carbs for breakfast...of course, it depends on how active you are.


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## bob_norm

There is in my opinion a HUGE controversy about gluten.

Traditionally, there are less than 1% of the population that has Celiac disease or Gluten intolerance. Some studies find that the incidence of non-celiac gluten sensitivity is less than 0.5% of the population.

But many others believe that gluten sensitivity occurs much more often and may impact 8% to 40% of the population.

Part of the reason for the high numbers associated with gluten sensitivity is that many are not diagnosed or possibly are not diagnosable using current lab tests. The basis of the diagnosis for many people is various questions about symptoms related to gluten. Looking at the questions associated with the 8 to 40 percent diagnosis - many of them might have simply have low level inflammation related to any number of things.

Inflammation can be reduced by eating better, by reducing weight, exercising more and etc., etc. So a person who has autoimmune disease and low level inflammation causing various symptoms could stop eating bread and makes up those calories from something healthier. In that case, the symptoms might subside.

Another problem with the gluten debate is that a lot of pseudo-type science is published. Basically, there are many people who are suspicious of genetically altered food plants. As the incidence of gluten intolerance goes up, these people are certain that it must be caused by genetically altered food plants. I have nothing against this type of speculation except that it is often passed of as being very credible information but science does not support the speculation. The speculation appears to be primarily based on suspicion. But suspicion is not evidence. It is true that the incidence of autoimmune diseases are increasing in recent decades. But the problem is that the incidence of autoimmune diseases started going up well before any genetically modified plants were introduced. This speculation requires some strong direct evidence that can't easily be explained away to be credible. I think it is more likely that if modern wheat does in fact cause more gluten sensitivity that it is caused by plant breeding and that they have inadvertently added some traits that are not well tolerated. If so, then the next step is to breed or otherwise alter wheat to get rid of this trait.

In my case, I don't show up on lab tests as gluten intolerant. And in fact I can eat most bread without any symptom. However, store bought pastries cause acid indigestion, gas and various other symptoms. I don't eat them anymore.

Personally, I believe that various factors must be at work which is why it is so difficult to figure out exactly what is going on.

For those who have autoimmune diseases, it is important to try to avoid anything that tends to cause more inflammation because that can cause other symptoms to flare.

Something that might be helpful in reducing the immune response and making it less sensitive is taking antabine - it comes in a supplement called Anatabloc. I'm taking it and trying to figure out if it is working or else I feel better due to random chance or the placebo effect.


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## piggley

i went gluten free for a bit, but eventually found it made no difference except that i became an eating machine,
So now i enjoy my ordinary bread, after a few weeks on gluten free i get sad and weak and hungry, 
However, i did see a Dr commenting about grains, his opinion was that once the gut has antibodies to gluten, the immune system will attack even non gluten grains, seeing them as foreign also.
Many people feel better without gluten even of thay are not celiac.. you could be sensitive... I dont see any reason to avoid an enjoyable nourishing food unless you have to or you feel better without it, see how you go.
I guess i get a bit narky about restrictive diets-once spent half a day reading some earnest anti carb blogs and felt like putting my head through the wall afterwards.


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## CA-Lynn

Would suggest that if anyone wants to bother going gluten-free that they have a celiac panel first to see if they have antibodies. If you don't, you may not want to put yourself through "going gluten."

Lowering carbs, however, is always a good idea.


----------



## piggley

CA-Lynn said:


> Would suggest that if anyone wants to bother going gluten-free that they have a celiac panel first to see if they have antibodies. If you don't, you may not want to put yourself through "going gluten."
> 
> Lowering carbs, however, is always a good idea.


yes good idea, push the carbs away and load up on the veggies, always a healthier option,


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## markwillplay

Dr. Datis Kharriazian http://www.thyroidbook.com/ is as leading researcher on the gluten thing as far as Hahis..

Here is my personal take....and this depends on your level of love for gluten.. I have been gluten free for 10 months and do not miss it much at all. My wife, on the other hand, would never be able to do it unless her life depended on it. What going gluten free has helped me with is avoicing foods that are not good for me...period. That is not to say that all bread is bad for you..quite the contraty, but I do not believe that it is necassary at all and so I do fine without it. I am lighter and all my numbers are better. Probably has nothing to do with gluten ... but it might. At this point in my life, I would just avoid it and not look back. You can certainly eat gluten free and not eat healthy at all...but I don't. The things I avoid are not good for my body anyway and it is not difficult for me. If it was, I would probably scrtutenize the science more. But, for me, no need. I also avoid dairy (I will eat some but rarely) and that is actually for my singing voice as I find that it makes flim much worse for me.

I have no idea if I am gluten intollerant becuae by the time we started testing for all this stuff, I have already decided to be gluten free and you can't test for it if it is not in your diet at all. I have no idea if I have celiac's, but I suspect I do not as I have eaten pizza by the larges since my childhood.

I agree that for general health, most people should reduce their carb intake and eat more hole foods and natural foods.

I do NOT think that all the science behind gluten and soy for inflamation is poop. I think that there are some very smart people out there that make some very convincing scientific arguments.

Look, there are docs out there that do not think that gut permeability means anything...they are wrong...but, it is not up there alley to study either.
Get all the info you can, from all the reputable sources you can, and make decisions you think are right and remember to be open minded to new research that comes out. I feel better than I have in years and that probably has more to do with my dose of armour than gluten, but no doubt my diet has played a large roll in it as well.


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## surge

To summarize: most of us feel better when we eat a cleaner diet-- whole foods, no added sugar, limited natural sugars, limited alcohol, limited meat and lots and lots o' greens, water, lemon and nut butters. Anyone interested in trying out the GF way, I recommend the blog Simply Sugar and Gluten Free for-- like the name suggests-- simple recipes. Also, grab some GF waffles to keep in the freezer for the I-must-have-something-bready cravings. Otherwise, I snack on fruit or a whole foods trail mix (who knew mulberry berries were so good?). I keep a Larabar or KIND bar in my bag when traveling. If I'm going to snack, I'd rather it be nut, seed, and fruit based, even on the go...

I've seen people's complexions and bodies changes for the better as they went GF, but, it might have had as much to do with the initial attention to the other good foods they were substituting in to make up for the missing bread...When a male friend first started going GF, he looked better and better every time I saw him. Then his life got really hectic. he's still eating GF but is more reliant on 'substitution' foods (gf pastas and crackers, etc.) and doesn't have as much time to invest in slow cooking...and it shows. His skin's really ruddy again; his eyes are puffy; he's gained weight. He's back to eating crappier, snacky foods, even though they're all GF.

It won't hurt to try GF if you're curious; don't beat yourself up if you have trouble staying purely GF; and if you learn you just. love. bread and you're angry without it, that's good to know, right? I recommend focusing on whole foods 'upgrades' as opposed to eliminations. I upgrade by focusing some weeks on water intake, some weeks on exercising first thing in the morning, or adding big hearty handfuls of kale to my soups and salads during the week.


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## piggley

Agree with Surge, Just avoiding Gluten alone wont be as beneficial as when a whole healthy diet is followed.


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## smelliebellie

if u have hashis, stay off gluten completely. i recommend an elimination aip diet as well.


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## CA-Lynn

I have Hashi's and have had all the celiac tests and have absolutely no problem with consuming glutens.


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## smelliebellie

for those who are recently diagnosed with hashimotos, staying off gluten would be key in order to not be predisposed other AI conditions as we are more prone to obtaining more than 1 AI disease. If you currently experience joint pain, fatigue, aches, anxiety, try getting off gluten for 2 months and see how you feel. You'll be surprised how some symptoms as mentioned may be alleviated by going gluten free alone.


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## CA-Lynn

I think that would be a total waste of time.....UNLESS you had all the celiac tests and came out positive. And even then it would be a stretch since less than 1 % of the population seems to be sensitive to glutens.

Telling someone who has joint pain and fatigue and aches to hold off on getting relief from what might well be a rheumatological disease could have terrible effects. That is, if it's an inflammatory disease, it could be that the inflammation will cause permanent erosion [as with the case of RA]. *Aggressive *treatment for autoimmune arthritic diseases is what has to happen.......which reinforces the recommendation to see a qualified diagnostician rather than sit around and try and juggle a diet.

And for what it's worth, the odds of being diagnoses with either RA or Hashimoto's are just about the same.


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## smelliebellie

laff66, i suggest you join the hashimotos group on fb. lots of supportive people on that forum and tons of info that may be helpful to you.


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## smelliebellie

and i would like to add, since im more about healing on a natural approach, my cousins who have multiple autoimmune conditions such as RA, OA, and diabetes (to name a few) that have alleviated their neuropathic pain, joint aches, muscle fatigue, and other symptoms by going gluten free alone. so i've seen proof that going off gluten can possibly alleviate symptoms don't get me wrong, as a registered nurse, a medical professional should always be seeked with any autoimmune conditions.


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## CA-Lynn

You know, there are some people who want so desperately for something to work, that it does......for a little while. You know, "wish" and it will come true. [Kind of.]

While this forum does provide support, it is also here to provide information and enlightenment. So if someone disagrees with the info you put out there, it deserves to be published.

Anyone with RA or diabetes doesn't have glutens on their radar screen UNLESS they are one of the <1% of the population with gluten sensitivity. Anyone with either of these serious diseases, both of which I have, doesn't mess around with a holistic approach.


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## smelliebellie

we can agree to disagree! :hugs:

for those who are looking at a holistic approach and lots of valuable information regarding hashis, check out the fb group! have an awesome night guys!


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## nvsmom

CA-Lynn - I think you have some numbers wrong. It was often accepted that about 1% of the population had celiac disease but that perception is changing. For example, according to Gedgaudas (Primal Body, Primal Mind) in _Pediatrics_ (2009 McGowan et al) stated "In the past 7 years, 1 in 4 was diagnosed as having celiac disease in Southern Alberta as a result of case-finding of associated conditions, consistent with data from the United Kingdom." Considering the Non-Celiac Gluten Intolerance (NCGI) is 8 to 30 times more common than celiac, that's potentially a huge chunk of the population that is affected by gluten.

Also Celiac disease is defined as having your microvilli wiped out by an autoimmune attack. If your villi are simply damaged, you are considered NCGI .... I don't think that is a huge difference myself.

It is believed that 1 in 8 gluten intolerant people have gastrointestinal issues. Most others have other symptoms such as neurological; gluten affects the frontal and prefrontal cortex resulting in lesions that can lead to depression, anxiety and ADHD. Plus, most of your serotonin is made in the gut so if gluten affects both areas, you can feel pretty poorly.

In _Nature Reviews Gastroenterology and Hepatology_ (2005) `This new paradigm subverts traditional theories underlying the development of autoimmunity, which are based on molecular mimicry and-or the bystander effect.... and suggests that the autoimmune process can be *arrested* if the interplay between genes and environmental triggers is prevented by re-establishing intestinal barrier function.` I think this is what Smelliebellie is saying, that autoimmune issues are epigentic and can be triggered or made worse by our environment (including food) even if some people have not made the link... And I agree, your link may not be to gluten but who is to say that others are not. I think there is a very good chance that gluten sensitivity caused my hypothyroidism.

In _The New England Journal of Medicine_ (2002) it was stated that 55 diseases are known to be caused by gluten. These include osteoporosis,heart disease, cancer, gallbladder disease, most degenerative neurological diseases including autiam and Parkinsons, as well as nearly all autoimmune diseases including the most common autoimmune disorder in the world, Hashimoto`s (diabetes and RA are also included). It is well known that diet affects diabetes and RA (sugar & refined carbs, and nightshades) so I do not think it`s a real stretch to consider gluten as an issue too.

Basically my point is, that gluten affects (conservatively) a quarter of the population and it`s not always in the gastro intestinal tract. I don`t think a gluten free diet should be dismissed just because you personally think it would not help you. There are many out there who could benefit.... It`s sort of like my (idiot) doctor who thinks only quacks would prescribe or take natural dessicated thyroid but there are a lot of people who do take it and feel better for it. Not everyone is the same.


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## Octavia

"In the past 7 years, 1 in 4 was diagnosed as having celiac disease in Southern Alberta as a result of case-finding of associated conditions, consistent with data from the United Kingdom."

nvsmom... I'd be curious to see a couple of paragraphs before and after this quote. It seems unlikely to me that 1 in 4 people in the general population have celiac disease. I wonder if they're saying that 1 of every 4 people who have celiac were found to have it because of associated conditions??? Or it's 1 in 4 people within some sub-population???

Sorry...I'm a numbers gal and a researcher at heart, and this raises a red flag for me. Do you have the actual article? I feel like we must be missing some info. Then again, maybe I'm misinterpreting what you wrote...anything's possible!


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## Andros

nvsmom said:


> CA-Lynn - I think you have some numbers wrong. It was often accepted that about 1% of the population had celiac disease but that perception is changing. For example, according to Gedgaudas (Primal Body, Primal Mind) in _Pediatrics_ (2009 McGowan et al) stated "In the past 7 years, 1 in 4 was diagnosed as having celiac disease in Southern Alberta as a result of case-finding of associated conditions, consistent with data from the United Kingdom." Considering the Non-Celiac Gluten Intolerance (NCGI) is 8 to 30 times more common than celiac, that's potentially a huge chunk of the population that is affected by gluten.
> 
> Also Celiac disease is defined as having your microvilli wiped out by an autoimmune attack. If your villi are simply damaged, you are considered NCGI .... I don't think that is a huge difference myself.
> 
> It is believed that 1 in 8 gluten intolerant people have gastrointestinal issues. Most others have other symptoms such as neurological; gluten affects the frontal and prefrontal cortex resulting in lesions that can lead to depression, anxiety and ADHD. Plus, most of your serotonin is made in the gut so if gluten affects both areas, you can feel pretty poorly.
> 
> In _Nature Reviews Gastroenterology and Hepatology_ (2005) `This new paradigm subverts traditional theories underlying the development of autoimmunity, which are based on molecular mimicry and-or the bystander effect.... and suggests that the autoimmune process can be *arrested* if the interplay between genes and environmental triggers is prevented by re-establishing intestinal barrier function.` I think this is what Smelliebellie is saying, that autoimmune issues are epigentic and can be triggered or made worse by our environment (including food) even if some people have not made the link... And I agree, your link may not be to gluten but who is to say that others are not. I think there is a very good chance that gluten sensitivity caused my hypothyroidism.
> 
> In _The New England Journal of Medicine_ (2002) it was stated that 55 diseases are known to be caused by gluten. These include osteoporosis,heart disease, cancer, gallbladder disease, most degenerative neurological diseases including autiam and Parkinsons, as well as nearly all autoimmune diseases including the most common autoimmune disorder in the world, Hashimoto`s (diabetes and RA are also included). It is well known that diet affects diabetes and RA (sugar & refined carbs, and nightshades) so I do not think it`s a real stretch to consider gluten as an issue too.
> 
> Basically my point is, that gluten affects (conservatively) a quarter of the population and it`s not always in the gastro intestinal tract. I don`t think a gluten free diet should be dismissed just because you personally think it would not help you. There are many out there who could benefit.... It`s sort of like my (idiot) doctor who thinks only quacks would prescribe or take natural dessicated thyroid but there are a lot of people who do take it and feel better for it. Not everyone is the same.


It could be that genetic (DNA) engineering is causing an increase in allergy. What does anybody think about that?


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## CA-Lynn

Despite increased prescription of a gluten-free diet for gastrointestinal symptoms in individuals who do not have celiac disease, there is minimal evidence that suggests that gluten is a trigger. 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21224837

Those with wheat allergy and gluten sensitivity are thought not to be at higher risk for complications. Defining the symptoms and biochemical markers for gluten-sensitive conditions is an important area for future investigations, and high-quality, large-scale randomized trials are needed to prove the true benefits of the GFD in this evolving field.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22237879


----------



## CA-Lynn

Regarding the author Gedgaudas.....who is not a scientist and is without meaningful credentials, here's a review of her book [cited elsewhere in the thread]:

" I cannot, in good conscience, recommend this book. I am just over halfway through the book and have no intention of finishing it. It is poorly written and adds nothing of value to the growing body of work related to the paleo diet.

For starters, Ms. Gedgaudas's writing is atrocious. Instead of building her argument step by step she skips back and forth. She frequently repeats entire arguments. As the only other negative review pointed out, there is no coherent flow to the book. She is heavy-handed with emotional language that has no place in a scientific work. And a book on diet is no place at all for political statements. She throws in random charts, graphs, and lists of diseases that are supposed to show some sort of link between the typical diet and rampant illness. But these graphics do nothing to further her argument.

Beyond the poor writing, Ms. Gedgaudas can't even decide what theory she is proposing. She claims throughout the book that we are still very much Ice Age beings and that our diet should still be what it was then. This is clearly the premise of the book as proclaimed by the title. She further defines the paleo diet as having been comprised entirely of wild game and fibrous vegetables. This is all perfectly reasonable and accurate. But then she throws it all away by claiming our ancestral diet was high in fat but low in protein. How is this possible? A high-fat diet means a carnivorous diet. If our ancestors ate as much wild game as she claims, and they almost certainly did, then they consumed much more protein than modern humans. Yet Ms. Gedgaudas asserts that our ancestors ate a high fat diet that was somehow low in protein. She is espousing an Eskimo diet while blithely ignoring the fact that most paleolithic humans did not eat like Eskimos. A diet rich in elk, caribou, and similar game animals would have been relatively low in fat and very high in protein. During the winter months our ancestors would have been exclusively carnivorous since they had no way of preserving vegetables. How can she claim our ancestors ate like this without consuming "excess" protein.


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## CA-Lynn

And another review:

"Being in the health field, the first thing I looked for was the author's education. From what I can tell it is a home study course. The posted credentials are basically given to anyone that posts a fee. The next thing I look for are the testimonials. Huge list of no bodies trying to look big. With this hype, my hopes were not good to find anything of value and I was mostly not disappointed. The references are selected to support bias and while not untrue, they are a minority opinion. Overall it is another example of the backlash against the plant based diet that the world's longest lived cultures enjoy ( not vegetarian ). You won't have to scratch very hard to find Weston Price. Reality is not your father's cave man."


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## CA-Lynn

Regarding the 1 in 4 in Alberta with the disease.....I cannot for the life of me find a credible, scientific statement to that effect.


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## lainey

This was in the NY Times just last week.

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/04/gluten-free-whether-you-need-it-or-not/



> It could be that genetic (DNA) engineering is causing an increase in allergy. What does anybody think about that?


If you scroll down into the comments, with in the first few there are several that suggest that our genetic engineering of wheat could be behind this, as well as the prevalence of other additives.

In todays' world, for diet in general, I think it is better to get back to single whole ingredients that are as close to their source as possible. Period. Nothing fancy needed.

Bastardizing one ingredient in foods as the source of all ills, however, has been done before and comes and goes like the wind. Personally, I think gluten has become just like any of the other dietary fads. People try it because it's the thing to do, report all sorts of miracles, and the word spreads.

The nice part is for people like my husbands' relatives, (2 of them) that have been gluten free for the last 20 years is the influx of new "foods",and also the the attention to the disorder--we were having a catered party, and I didn't have to get too specific with the caterer--she knew right away what to avoid on the meats and roasted vegetables, and how to present the salad so that they would be "clean".

As for the paleo diet--well the people eating that died anyway, and a lot sooner. Go figure. That's why I eat cake.


----------



## nvsmom

Octavia said:


> "In the past 7 years, 1 in 4 was diagnosed as having celiac disease in Southern Alberta as a result of case-finding of associated conditions, consistent with data from the United Kingdom."
> 
> nvsmom... I'd be curious to see a couple of paragraphs before and after this quote. It seems unlikely to me that 1 in 4 people in the general population have celiac disease. I wonder if they're saying that 1 of every 4 people who have celiac were found to have it because of associated conditions??? Or it's 1 in 4 people within some sub-population???


Octavia- I haven't read the article yet, which was why I included the source I heard it from... I'm not sure of the type of tests they were referring to, and I really really doubt the results are from the usual ttg IgA or IgG, EMA IgA, or DGP IgA or IgG tests. Perhaps the more sensitive (and less highly regarded) stool tets were used. Enterolab runs gluten sensitivity tests that have a tendency to be positive more than they should be.

It could also be that the tests did not require complete villi atrophy for diagnosis... I'm not sure. As you said, it could be the link through associated conditions; celiacs have approximately a 10X greater risk of other autoimmune disease than the general population so it would make sense that it shows up in other groups.

That sentence just really caught my attention because I live in that area.  I do agree that that specific quote should not be treated as a gospel; I was hoping that it would help illustrate that gluten intolerance isn't as rare as people seem to think.

Andros - I wouldn't be surprised if genetitic modifications are behind many food sensitivities. There is a book called Wheat Belly by Davis which is well thought out and researched, although some of his stats seem to a bit mis-used. It's a good read. 
I'm not sure if GMO affects allergies or not.



CA-Lynn said:


> Despite increased prescription of a gluten-free diet for gastrointestinal symptoms in individuals who do not have celiac disease, there is minimal evidence that suggests that gluten is a trigger.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21224837
> 
> Those with wheat allergy and gluten sensitivity are thought not to be at higher risk for complications. Defining the symptoms and biochemical markers for gluten-sensitive conditions is an important area for future investigations, and high-quality, large-scale randomized trials are needed to prove the true benefits of the GFD in this evolving field.
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22237879


That first study, as far as I can understand it, states that the anti gliadin antibodies were not induced on a gluten filled diet after 6 weeks in 34 subjects. I believe that means that they didn't turn into celiacs... which makes sense if the are non-celiac gluten intolerants.

Gluten sensitivity is starting to be considered as a spectrum with celiac disease at the one extreme end. Compare it to the autism spectrum, my son has mild aspergers which is a far cry from other autistic children who are severely socially and developmentally delayed. KWIM?

The second article seems to discus how NCGI's aren't as likely to develop the cancers and health problems that celiacs are as far as they can tell at the moment; it needs more research. True, it does. I find that the medical community is often lagging behind what the public seems to know though. It took decades for doctors to admit that a gf casein free diet helps autistic patients; they denied it at first. They are finally starting to admit it it can. Finally. Since eating gf does no harm at all, why wouldn't someone try it rather than wait around for the medical research to catch up?


----------



## Andros

lainey said:


> This was in the NY Times just last week.
> 
> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/04/gluten-free-whether-you-need-it-or-not/
> 
> If you scroll down into the comments, with in the first few there are several that suggest that our genetic engineering of wheat could be behind this, as well as the prevalence of other additives.
> 
> In todays' world, for diet in general, I think it is better to get back to single whole ingredients that are as close to their source as possible. Period. Nothing fancy needed.
> 
> Bastardizing one ingredient in foods as the source of all ills, however, has been done before and comes and goes like the wind. Personally, I think gluten has become just like any of the other dietary fads. People try it because it's the thing to do, report all sorts of miracles, and the word spreads.
> 
> The nice part is for people like my husbands' relatives, (2 of them) that have been gluten free for the last 20 years is the influx of new "foods",and also the the attention to the disorder--we were having a catered party, and I didn't have to get too specific with the caterer--she knew right away what to avoid on the meats and roasted vegetables, and how to present the salad so that they would be "clean".
> 
> As for the paleo diet--well the people eating that died anyway, and a lot sooner. Go figure. That's why I eat cake.


Thank you for the link. I have been very suspicious about this and a whole host of other things which I believe to be affecting our food supply.

In a great part, you are correct about faddishness. Especially if one is narcissistic!! Some people command great attention this way. ROLF!!


----------



## nvsmom

CA-Lynn said:


> Regarding the author Gedgaudas.....who is not a scientist and is without meaningful credentials, here's a review of her book [cited elsewhere in the thread]:
> 
> " I cannot, in good conscience, recommend this book. I am just over halfway through the book and have no intention of finishing it. It is poorly written and adds nothing of value to the growing body of work related to the paleo diet.
> 
> For starters, Ms. Gedgaudas's writing is atrocious. Instead of building her argument step by step she skips back and forth. She frequently repeats entire arguments. As the only other negative review pointed out, there is no coherent flow to the book. She is heavy-handed with emotional language that has no place in a scientific work. And a book on diet is no place at all for political statements. She throws in random charts, graphs, and lists of diseases that are supposed to show some sort of link between the typical diet and rampant illness. But these graphics do nothing to further her argument.
> 
> Beyond the poor writing, Ms. Gedgaudas can't even decide what theory she is proposing. She claims throughout the book that we are still very much Ice Age beings and that our diet should still be what it was then. This is clearly the premise of the book as proclaimed by the title. She further defines the paleo diet as having been comprised entirely of wild game and fibrous vegetables. This is all perfectly reasonable and accurate. But then she throws it all away by claiming our ancestral diet was high in fat but low in protein. How is this possible? A high-fat diet means a carnivorous diet. If our ancestors ate as much wild game as she claims, and they almost certainly did, then they consumed much more protein than modern humans. Yet Ms. Gedgaudas asserts that our ancestors ate a high fat diet that was somehow low in protein. She is espousing an Eskimo diet while blithely ignoring the fact that most paleolithic humans did not eat like Eskimos. A diet rich in elk, caribou, and similar game animals would have been relatively low in fat and very high in protein. During the winter months our ancestors would have been exclusively carnivorous since they had no way of preserving vegetables. How can she claim our ancestors ate like this without consuming "excess" protein.


Lynn, you are fast! I can barely keep up. LOL 
I am currently reading Gedaudas book and I have not found that she claims paleolithic people ate a low protein diet. Granted, I'm only a third of the way through the book but I got the impression that high protein and fat diets gave our ancestors a real edge, especially in brain development.

I'll have to finish reading before I know if I agree with that reviewer's perecption of the book.



CA-Lynn said:


> And another review:
> 
> "Being in the health field, the first thing I looked for was the author's education. From what I can tell it is a home study course. The posted credentials are basically given to anyone that posts a fee. The next thing I look for are the testimonials. Huge list of no bodies trying to look big. With this hype, my hopes were not good to find anything of value and I was mostly not disappointed. The references are selected to support bias and while not untrue, they are a minority opinion. Overall it is another example of the backlash against the plant based diet that the world's longest lived cultures enjoy ( not vegetarian ). You won't have to scratch very hard to find Weston Price. Reality is not your father's cave man."


I don't know... I think Weston Price, for his time, was onto something. That plant and meat based diet made more sense than the Heart and Stroke societies advice to eat more grains and a low fat diet that was emerging at the same time.

As for the author's education, no she is not a doctor but that doesn't mean much to me... I've met a LOT of doctors who were not that bright and don't appear to research or try to expand their knowledge or the public's in a certain area. I don't think a doctorate is needed to write a good book.

And no, I haven't found anything else to back up that 1 in 4 number either.


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## lainey

> Since eating gf does no harm at all


I am going to respectfully disagree with that, and say that it is quite easy to eat poorly on any diet that espouses health benefits--vegan, low carb, low fat--you name it. Vegetarians can suffer from weight gain and other health problems if they eat too many bean burritos......

Good nutrition requires careful attention to macro and micro nutrients. Once you start to eliminate components--grains, proteins, what have you--a person then needs to be careful that the other portions of their diet fills their needs properly.


----------



## nvsmom

lainey said:


> This was in the NY Times just last week.
> 
> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/04/gluten-free-whether-you-need-it-or-not/
> 
> If you scroll down into the comments, with in the first few there are several that suggest that our genetic engineering of wheat could be behind this, as well as the prevalence of other additives.
> 
> In todays' world, for diet in general, I think it is better to get back to single whole ingredients that are as close to their source as possible. Period. Nothing fancy needed.
> 
> Bastardizing one ingredient in foods as the source of all ills, however, has been done before and comes and goes like the wind. Personally, I think gluten has become just like any of the other dietary fads. People try it because it's the thing to do, report all sorts of miracles, and the word spreads.
> 
> The nice part is for people like my husbands' relatives, (2 of them) that have been gluten free for the last 20 years is the influx of new "foods",and also the the attention to the disorder--we were having a catered party, and I didn't have to get too specific with the caterer--she knew right away what to avoid on the meats and roasted vegetables, and how to present the salad so that they would be "clean".
> 
> As for the paleo diet--well the people eating that died anyway, and a lot sooner. Go figure. That's why I eat cake.


Interesting article. It quotes the same article that Ca-Lynn did and discussed how many of the 34 subjects in the trial felt worse on a gluten filled diet.

And I agree that food manufacturers are taking advantage of the whole gf trend but, like your family members, I appreciate the increased accessibility of gf prepackaged products. Now is a good time to live gf easily. 

I do laugh at the people who are cutting down on their gluten though. I see them in the stores buying gf treats along with their bread. LOL People don't realize that if they have an unrecognized problem with gluten that they need to cut all gluten out of their diets for months to feel the full benefit... if they have a gluten intolerance. I think gluten intolerance education is lagging behind product availability.

As for paleolithic man, I've read in a few sources that he was just as big and long lived as we are. They had a lower average death rate because of poor infant mortality. Causes of death back then were largely accidental or by infection. They did have much lower cancer, and heart disease rates.

Archeologists have found that human stature and life expectancy declined when agriculture began. It has improved with our pharmacutical industry.... Which I appreciate! It would be really hard to treat my hypothyroidism without them! eek!


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## nvsmom

lainey said:


> I am going to respectfully disagree with that, and say that it is quite easy to eat poorly on any diet that espouses health benefits--vegan, low carb, low fat--you name it. Vegetarians can suffer from weight gain and other health problems if they eat too many bean burritos......
> 
> Good nutrition requires careful attention to macro and micro nutrients. Once you start to eliminate components--grains, proteins, what have you--a person then needs to be careful that the other portions of their diet fills their needs properly.


If people substitute wheat products for gf products bread slice for bread slice, I agree that eating gf is not good for you. Gf prepackaged foods tend to have a higher sugar content to make up for the altered "mouth feel" of the food. I eat a lot less pasta and bread than I used to because of that fact.

I should have been more clear. As long as you are not using gf pre-made prepackaged foods, eating gf is not harmful. People can live very well on meats, green vegetables, some starchy vegetables and a bit of fruit. Those who want grains, can eat rice quinoa and a variety of other grains beyond wheat, barley and rye; personally I think people do best by limiting grains, and all manufactured foods, as much as possible because we don't need to consume carbs like we do proteins and fats.


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## Octavia

nvsmom said:


> personally I think people do best by limiting grains, and all manufactured foods.


Ugh...this is my downfall! !!!

Habits die hard.


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## CA-Lynn

lainey said:


> This was in the NY Times just last week.
> 
> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/04/gluten-free-whether-you-need-it-or-not/
> 
> If you scroll down into the comments, with in the first few there are several that suggest that our genetic engineering of wheat could be behind this, as well as the prevalence of other additives.
> 
> In todays' world, for diet in general, I think it is better to get back to single whole ingredients that are as close to their source as possible. Period. Nothing fancy needed.
> 
> Bastardizing one ingredient in foods as the source of all ills, however, has been done before and comes and goes like the wind. Personally, I think gluten has become just like any of the other dietary fads. People try it because it's the thing to do, report all sorts of miracles, and the word spreads.
> 
> The nice part is for people like my husbands' relatives, (2 of them) that have been gluten free for the last 20 years is the influx of new "foods",and also the the attention to the disorder--we were having a catered party, and I didn't have to get too specific with the caterer--she knew right away what to avoid on the meats and roasted vegetables, and how to present the salad so that they would be "clean".
> 
> As for the paleo diet--well the people eating that died anyway, and a lot sooner. Go figure. That's why I eat cake.


~~~~

I couldn't agree more about "bastardizing one ingredient in foods" and "that our genetic engineering of wheat could be behind this" - just like the HFCS issue.

I think that the public at large, when reading these studies, needs to be very selective in what they read....always and only from credible sources. There are far too many marketing folks hyping stuff on the internet, seducing an indiscriminating public.


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## CA-Lynn

".....link through associated conditions; celiacs have approximately a 10X greater risk of other autoimmune disease than the general population so it would make sense that it shows up in other groups."

Most people miss the obvious. The reason all too often for association between one autoimmune disease to another autoimmune disease is:

[_drum roll please]_

Because a person with one autoimmune disease is already under a doctor's care, and goes to a doctor much more frequently than a person without an autoimmune disease, and is therefore inclined to introduce new symptoms in an office visit.....which then are checked out.


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## CA-Lynn

nvsmom: I guess I would question why anyone would take such a book seriously, given the background of the author. But that's just me. I'm always about credentials. Of course empirical experience is a good thing, but I think too often that uncredentialed people have such a small understanding of the big picture and cannot always understand the scientific studies. [Or they just refuse to acknowledge something that goes against their beliefs.]

I mean no offense.


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## lainey

> As for paleolithic man, I've read in a few sources that he was just as big and long lived as we are. They had a lower average death rate because of poor infant mortality. Causes of death back then were largely accidental or by infection. They did have much lower cancer, and heart disease rates.


A couple of things. When I Google "longevity in paleolithic times", why do I get a page full of references espousing the benefits of a paleo diet?

I love the internet. Get a couple of bots to hit your site a few hundred thousand times, and you shoot right to the top of the search engine.

If we are relying on archeology for reference, our sample size is justifiably limited to what we have encountered re: remains of past humans, their tools and accessories. Like wise, we make similar assumptions about their living and eating habits based on the samples we find--soft tissue, such as food, simply does not make it from the preservation stand point. When we can only make extrapolations to the whole population based on what we see--how do we really know that what we see is representative of the population?

The average life expectancy of humans has increased over time--from the middle 50's it was thought for the neolithic era (after controlling for infant death rate), to the late 60's we show today (and this varies considerably among cultures and geographic locations). As for rates of disease, can we really blame diet or the effects of time? Given that cancer and heart disease take decades to develop, it only makes sense that it would not be a significant factor in all cause mortality for neolithic humans, given that a majority of them did not live long enough to develop these diseases.

The biggest factor working against us? Modern medicine. Why? Many, many of our health issues have genetics as a primary component, heavily influenced by environmental factors. Instead of selecting out the weaker traits, modern therapies allow us to reproduce and perpetuate them in the genome. Diet isn't even the half of it.


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## nvsmom

Octavia said:


> Ugh...this is my downfall! !!!
> 
> Habits die hard.


I'm a snacker too! My evening snack of cacao nibs and raw almonds just isn't the same as a bag of M&M's. LOL 



CA-Lynn said:


> ".....link through associated conditions; celiacs have approximately a 10X greater risk of other autoimmune disease than the general population so it would make sense that it shows up in other groups."
> 
> Most people miss the obvious. The reason all too often for association between one autoimmune disease to another autoimmune disease is:
> 
> [_drum roll please]_
> 
> Because a person with one autoimmune disease is already under a doctor's care, and goes to a doctor much more frequently than a person without an autoimmune disease, and is therefore inclined to introduce new symptoms in an office visit.....which then are checked out.


That could be true, but most people I've talked with who have autoimmune disorders went for years or decades without treatment, myself included. I've been a celiac since at least my early school years but my symptoms were dismissed. That's not uncommon; it takes an average of 8 years to get a celiac diagnosis and only (approximately - I can't remember the exact number) 1/8 or 1/9 celiacs are currently diagnosed. Also, I have had hypo symptoms, and subclinical TSH's, for almost 15 years; the only reason I am being treated now is because I read some books,most not written by doctors, and I learned that Celiacs have a much higher likelihood of developing Hashi's than the general population.

I have to respectfully disagree with you.



CA-Lynn said:


> nvsmom: I guess I would question why anyone would take such a book seriously, given the background of the author. But that's just me. I'm always about credentials. Of course empirical experience is a good thing, but I think too often that uncredentialed people have such a small understanding of the big picture and cannot always understand the scientific studies. [Or they just refuse to acknowledge something that goes against their beliefs.]
> 
> I mean no offense.


No offense taken. Just remember that doctors are often biased too, although many will claim not to be.


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## smelliebellie

i LOVE this discussion on the this thread! Love hearing the disagreements and agreements regarding gluten!


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## piggley

Agree, the True Believers are convinced that ancient Man was some sort of superhuman,owing to the diet he had-I suspect thats a bit of a stretch, he probably ate anything he could find, after he shooed away the predators so he could have some.But they are correct in that modern Wheat is less digestable, being also much higher in Lectins,
which protects the seed from insect attack ect..

But I agree with the people who are worried about GM..
There was a famous case in the UK some years ago-Dr Pustzai is an expert in food Lectins, (not to be confused with Leptins of course) anyhow, he was contracted by Monsanto to do research on Potatoes- (very high in Lectins) anyhow the Rats who were fed the GM Potatoes developed tumors and gut abnormalities, among other things..
When he reported that the Potatoes were not fit for human consumption, huge pressure was applied- president Clinton phoned Tony Blair, Monsanto was upset-the Dr was locked out of his Lab and his papers confiscated, he was smeared in various publications--He is not an advocate of GM foods, to say the least-
http://rense.com/general65/rats.htm
The GM push goes on though.. apparently most of the research doesnt see the light of day, thankfully perhaps- there was one instance when an attempt was made to GM Salmon, it turned green-they ditched that one after deciding it wasnt a winner -
But its not only Wheat which can produce Gut problems and Arthritis, by promoting chronic inflammation..we should be careful of all Vegetables/seeds high in Lectins, and especially the Nightshades. I found this out to my cost far too late,
Thanks for such an interesting thread everyone,


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## lainey

I suppose I am drifting off topic but when I read this:



> But I agree with the people who are worried about GM..
> There was a famous case in the UK some years ago-Dr Pustzai is an expert in food Lectins, (not to be confused with Leptins of course) anyhow, he was contracted by Monsanto to do research on Potatoes- (very high in Lectins) anyhow the Rats who were fed the GM Potatoes developed tumors and gut abnormalities, among other things..
> When he reported that the Potatoes were not fit for human consumption, huge pressure was applied- president Clinton phoned Tony Blair, Monsanto was upset-the Dr was locked out of his Lab and his papers confiscated, he was smeared in various publications--He is not an advocate of GM foods, to say the least


I thought of this, which I read this morning:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/science/testing-of-some-deadly-diseases-on-mice-mislead-report-says.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0&ref=science

Not that the NY Times is the word of god, lol, but on the second page of this they point out how this study was so shattering that it was rejected by the major journals.....and it doesn't take a PHD to figure out that if some correlations between mice and humans are flawed, many others likely are, after all leaving us with the terrible (and now quite public, because previously it was only known to the most skeptical) quandry of:

What exactly is reliable research???

So one must always read and evaluate sources, and take them with a grain of salt, quite possibly while eating chocolate covered bacon :winking0001:


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## piggley

What Gluten does, and watch out for the beans too.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1115436/

,


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## CA-Lynn

nvsmom wrote: "That could be true, but most people I've talked with who have autoimmune disorders went for years or decades without treatment, myself included. I've been a celiac since at least my early school years but my symptoms were dismissed. That's not uncommon; it takes an average of 8 years to get a celiac diagnosis and only (approximately - I can't remember the exact number) 1/8 or 1/9 celiacs are currently diagnosed. Also, I have had hypo symptoms, and subclinical TSH's, for almost 15 years; the only reason I am being treated now is because I read some books,most not written by doctors, and I learned that Celiacs have a much higher likelihood of developing Hashi's than the general population."

I didn't make my point clear. What I was trying to impart is that the reason you see a close association between Hashi's and celiac is simply because of the common HLA haplotype. If a Hashimoto's patient is in the office and complains of celiac symptoms, if the doctor is up on celiac disease, he might investigate further to document gluten sensitivity.

That said, it does NOT mean that all Hashi's patients have gluten sensitivity. Not by a long stretch.


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## CA-Lynn

http://clinmedres.org/content/5/3/184.full


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## nvsmom

CA-Lynn said:


> nvsmom wrote: "That could be true, but most people I've talked with who have autoimmune disorders went for years or decades without treatment, myself included. I've been a celiac since at least my early school years but my symptoms were dismissed. That's not uncommon; it takes an average of 8 years to get a celiac diagnosis and only (approximately - I can't remember the exact number) 1/8 or 1/9 celiacs are currently diagnosed. Also, I have had hypo symptoms, and subclinical TSH's, for almost 15 years; the only reason I am being treated now is because I read some books,most not written by doctors, and I learned that Celiacs have a much higher likelihood of developing Hashi's than the general population."
> 
> I didn't make my point clear. What I was trying to impart is that the reason you see a close association between Hashi's and celiac is simply because of the common HLA haplotype. If a Hashimoto's patient is in the office and complains of celiac symptoms, if the doctor is up on celiac disease, he might investigate further to document gluten sensitivity.
> 
> That said, it does NOT mean that all Hashi's patients have gluten sensitivity. Not by a long stretch.


True. Although celiac is appearing outside of the usual DQ2 and DQ8 genes. There must be more links that have not yet been discovered yet.

As the article below stated "_HLA-DQ2 and DQ8 haplotypes are over-represented in many autoimmune diseases"_. That means many share the same genes for thyroiditis and celiac so if you have one, you would be more likely to have another AI disease express itself.

Untreated celiac cause quite a state of inflammation which is thought to trigger other AI diseases to begin (like Hashi's). Celiac does not just cause autoimmune attacks on the gut; it can attack other major organs including skin, brain, liver, as well as glands... like the thyroid. According to a chart in the article you mentioned below, up to 40% of celiac patients have TPO Ab, and between 2-13% have hypothyroidism, which was reversed on a gf diet in some of the studies mentioned.

As I understand it, it means a thyroiditis patient is more likely to be affected by gluten than Joe Smoe on the street.

... And I KNOW (as you said) that not _all Hashi's patients have a gluten sensitivity. Not by a long stretch_. I don't believe I ever wrote that. I just think you should not dismiss something (gf diet) that could potentially help some hashi's patients feel better, even if they are not the majority of thyroiditis sufferers.



CA-Lynn said:


> http://clinmedres.org/content/5/3/184.full


This is an interesting paper. It states the widely known stat that ~1% of the general population has celiac but then it looks at rates of celiac in thyroid disease patients (between 1 and almost 8% depending on the study 3-4% being most typical). That shows that celiac disease is about 4 (or more) times as likely to appear in thyroiditis patients as the general population. If that is true of celiac disease, I wonder if it's true of non-celiac gluten sensitivity? NCGI is 8 to 30 times as common as celiac in the general population; what if it is higher in thyroiditis patients as well? If it is, it could a a quarter of all Hashis patients.

NCGI was only recognized a year ago, who is to say how it fits into this picture?

Gluten sensitivity is not as rare as your tone implies (to me anyways) in thyroiditis patients. I just don't think it should be dismissed because a minority are affected by it. I think it would almost be akin to dismissing discussions on Armour because the majority of hashi's patients use levothyroxine, so Armour isn't relevant to the rest of us.


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## nvsmom

lainey said:


> I suppose I am drifting off topic but when I read this:
> 
> I thought of this, which I read this morning:
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/12/science/testing-of-some-deadly-diseases-on-mice-mislead-report-says.html?pagewanted=2&_r=0&ref=science
> 
> Not that the NY Times is the word of god, lol, but on the second page of this they point out how this study was so shattering that it was rejected by the major journals.....and it doesn't take a PHD to figure out that if some correlations between mice and humans are flawed, many others likely are, after all leaving us with the terrible (and now quite public, because previously it was only known to the most skeptical) quandry of:
> 
> What exactly is reliable research???
> 
> So one must always read and evaluate sources, and take them with a grain of salt, quite possibly while eating chocolate covered bacon :winking0001:


Chocolate covered bacon... tell me no one has created that yet! Ewwww. LOL

That was a disturbing story. I doubt things will change though because if they are not using mice to experiment with, what will they use?



piggley said:


> What Gluten does, and watch out for the beans too.
> 
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1115436/


:sick0012: I got stuck on the GMO tomato / latex glove hybrid... that just seems so very very wrong.

Interesting article. It was interesting to learn some of the science behind glucosamine.


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## Andros

lainey said:


> A couple of things. When I Google "longevity in paleolithic times", why do I get a page full of references espousing the benefits of a paleo diet?
> 
> I love the internet. Get a couple of bots to hit your site a few hundred thousand times, and you shoot right to the top of the search engine.
> 
> If we are relying on archeology for reference, our sample size is justifiably limited to what we have encountered re: remains of past humans, their tools and accessories. Like wise, we make similar assumptions about their living and eating habits based on the samples we find--soft tissue, such as food, simply does not make it from the preservation stand point. When we can only make extrapolations to the whole population based on what we see--how do we really know that what we see is representative of the population?
> 
> The average life expectancy of humans has increased over time--from the middle 50's it was thought for the neolithic era (after controlling for infant death rate), to the late 60's we show today (and this varies considerably among cultures and geographic locations). As for rates of disease, can we really blame diet or the effects of time? Given that cancer and heart disease take decades to develop, it only makes sense that it would not be a significant factor in all cause mortality for neolithic humans, given that a majority of them did not live long enough to develop these diseases.
> 
> The biggest factor working against us? Modern medicine. Why? Many, many of our health issues have genetics as a primary component, heavily influenced by environmental factors. Instead of selecting out the weaker traits, modern therapies allow us to reproduce and perpetuate them in the genome. Diet isn't even the half of it.


I agree about the reproduction; especially when it is known there are "certain" genetic traits that are bound to bring a life-time of illness or even an early demise. Tch!

Less than satisfactory environmental conditions contribute heavily to the propensity of what is already there lying dormant in wait for "the trigger!"


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## piggley

Maked me think of the story where supposedly (according to the story) in the olden days in Russia newborns would be dipped in an icy river as a test for survivability in the severe climate-dont know if the story is fact or legend..
I think there is too much tendancy to shove a lot of ailments into the great grab bag of being "genetic" (meaning the Dr has no means to fix it yet, and if it's "genetic" he can stop thinking about it-how convenient )
As re Genetic engineering, as usual its all full speed ahead -yet not knowing how they are going to deal with possible conequences on human health- or even what those might be.


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## CA-Lynn

I'm not suggesting that people disregard information on gluten sensitivity. I DO think too many people jump on the bandwagon and assume that's what ails them.


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## piggley

CA-Lynn said:


> I'm not suggesting that people disregard information on gluten sensitivity. I DO think too many people jump on the bandwagon and assume that's what ails them.


I agree, I think thats quite right..Gluten free has become trendy, and a fad- 
While there are people who need to be Gluten free or who feel healthier when the are, some people are missing a tasty and nourishing food for no good reason.


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## midgetmaid

I have been off gluten for five years due to diagnosed sensitivity. When people ask me about going gf, I encourage them to get tested first. It's much easier to stick to the diet if you know you have a problem with it.

Renee


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## nvsmom

GF eating definitely has become trendy. It's nice to be so "with it". LOL :winking0001: It does make shopping easier for me if more people want GF items so I don't mind the trend (for my own selfish reasons).

I agree that people should get tested for celiac if they suspect gluten is a problem, and then once all testing is complete they should try the gf diet for a few months to look for improvements in their health.

There are people who are missing out on tasty (I'm not sure about nutritious) "glutenous" foods who have no problem with gluten, like my middle child who is living in a gf home, but I doubt there are many like that... or that they last long because GF eating is a hassle. Staying at other people's homes or traveling is very difficult; I've had days where I lived on Lara bars, apples and bananas because my hosts were not able to provide gf food (I go everywhere with a cooler). Most restaurants can't make true gf foods even if they claim it is on the menu.

I would guess that people eat gf because there is something wrong and they are getting desperate enough to give up a major staple in the western diet. It may be trendy but I think most of the fad followers are just cutting back on their wheat consumption (not a bad thing) rather than going gf.


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## smelliebellie

ill admit, im not 100% gluten free. but definitely have cut out eating bread. I think im going to give it a couple more months to reintroduce, or rather, TRY gluten again and see if i react. the times that i've consumed something with gluten in it (very rarely) didn't give me a reaction at all. so we shall see.


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## piggley

I know what you are saying about visiting when you are GF, its a nightmare--.I didnt appreciate till then the extent to which Wheat had infiltrated our diets, its through everything.
Additionally, when i went GF for a while I found most ready made GF Breads had subsitituted Potato flour-even worse for me,


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## nvsmom

Smelliebellie - you might want to try going 100% gf before you assess the health benefits. If you have a sensitivity, it can take very little gluten to cause a reaction. I have reacted to a so called GF beer that was Gf to 3 parts per million... that surprised me. I had bloating, pain, and a headache for days. lol

Piggley - I can't imagine having to avoid other flours besides wheat, barley and rye! That would seriously complicate things. EEK!


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