# Is Hashimoto's possible without detectable antibodies?



## Saskman84 (Dec 9, 2015)

Hi folks,

Last year I had a TPO Antibodies test and it was returned as undetectable.

I have had never leaving symptoms of Hypothyroidism and also Hypogonadism (lower testosterone) since I was 15.

As an adult, I learned by TSH was constantly between 4-5 miu/L.

I've ran quite a few tests including bloodwork 4x a year for the past two years; karyotype (negative); brain MRI (negative)

A couple tests I have yet to run are:

1) Thyroid Ultrasound

2) Cortisol test

There was one case of a young man that resembled mine. His symptoms started at 14 and he was diagnosed in his mid 20s. It turned out this person had Hashimoto's Syndrome.

My case is very different then people who have strict thyroid issues, but I was wondering if anyone has heard or come across a case of someone who had Hashimoto's without detectable thyroid antibodies.

Does anyone think Cortisol (high or low) could impair Thyroid or Pituitary function to an extreme level from a young age -> adult?


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

What are you precise thyroid labs? Have you had the antibodies re-run? What are your testosterone results?


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## Saskman84 (Dec 9, 2015)

joplin1975 said:


> What are you precise thyroid labs? Have you had the antibodies re-run? What are your testosterone results?


My natural testosterone results are around 180-300 ng/dl but I am now on HRT.

I haven't had a repeat test of TPO antibodies.

My T3 and T4 were all well within range; my last TSH was 4.9 miu/l (range is up to 5) before I started Thyroxine Sodium from India.


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

Low testosterone impacts they thyroid system.

I, personally, never accept "well within range." I always want to know the exact results and make sure they numbers fall at the 50%-75% mark.

Is the medication you are taking prescribed or purchased OTC?


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

Without positive antibody tests for that snapshot in time when you had your blood drawn you would have to have an ultrasound for a positive diagnoses of Hashimoto's..

Like a previous forum member stated, Your thyroid should look "moth eaten" on ultrasound .

Your thyroid can still work for awhile while being moth eaten.


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## Saskman84 (Dec 9, 2015)

joplin1975 said:


> Low testosterone impacts they thyroid system.
> 
> I, personally, never accept "well within range." I always want to know the exact results and make sure they numbers fall at the 50%-75% mark.
> 
> Is the medication you are taking prescribed or purchased OTC?


I am aware that low testosterone effects the thyroid system, but I do wonder what went wrong first-- thyroid or testosterone? My problems started out dramatically around 15, until then, I was quite normal. First things were anxiety, very bad, poor concentration, erectile issues. I was never a tiny or skinny guy, but I could never gain muscle like others. There were a couple times in my life, around 19 and mid 20s that I gained an exceptional amount of weight without justification. Also times I would jog but not be able to sweat. Weird things.

All of my testing to try to find the root cause has so far been to no avail. Thyroid ultrasound and reverse T3/T4 are tests I have not had. Up here in Canada, it's hard to convince a doctor that having a TSH of 5 is outside of normal, despite having all the symptoms. My urologist who I was referred to my another urologist (who told me that I was normal re testosterone levels) openly stated that he doesn't know thyroid stuff.

But it seems TSH reference ranges are in the same boat as Testosterone reference ranges. My testosterone reference ranges were normal for a man over 80, and even 80 year olds on average have higher testosterone levels then my first draw a few years ago of 199 ng/dl.

I would like to rule out Thyroid issues and will be pushing for an ultrasound of my Thyroid next week.

As for my medication, none of it is over the counter. I am taking: testosterone enanthate, human chorionic gonadotropin, levothyroxine which I do not have a prescription for, anastrozole very occasionally and wellbutrin to supposively boost my dopamine.

I've gotten my TSH down to low 2s since taking thyroxine sodium (100mg-125mg now) from mid to high 4s over a year. Should I up my dosage? I know taking drugs without a doctors order is frowned upon, but I am desperate and suffered these symptoms all of my life. I have a prescription for everything but the thyroxine sodium.


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

The thyroid/testosterone chicken vs egg question is different for everyone. Although, without antibodies, it certainly would make me lean toward testosterone. Did you truly have no antibodies or were they within range?

I don't know how to dose thyroid meds on TSH alone...sorry.


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## Saskman84 (Dec 9, 2015)

joplin1975 said:


> The thyroid/testosterone chicken vs egg question is different for everyone. Although, without antibodies, it certainly would make me lean toward testosterone. Did you truly have no antibodies or were they within range?
> 
> I don't know how to dose thyroid meds on TSH alone...sorry.


Well whatever the problem with testosterone is, it is secondary- which means hormone based on underperforming pituitary signals rather then primary which is testicular. Thankfully I was able to father a child. So my hormones are out of whack and have been since I was a teenager, I was normal until 15. No brain tumors and normal karyotype.

My tpo antibodies came back undetecable. In my MRI, the pituitary gland was reviewed us "unremarkable."

So what else could it be, what else could I test for? I try to go back in time and think of what could have happened to me that may have caused these life long health issues. I grew up in a place with mining and steel production. I use to do lots of swimming, like many other kids who never developed whatever i had. Sometimes I think of heavy metal poisoning but it's probably far-fetched.

Hypothyroid is the story of my life (as was higher cholesterol which was a trait of hypothyroidism.)

But again, my TSH came down with my Testosterone went up; still above 2-usually around 3, but it came down from 5.

The one young guy (now an adult) story I read about Hashimoto was so reminiscent of mine. It's hard to find any examples of real people who developed my issue at a young age and didn't get treatment until they were adults.

Just trying to find the root cause or something new to test and Thyroid is the most intriguing element to eliminate...


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