# Wifes thyroid panel need advice



## tafuller80 (Jun 6, 2013)

My wife has a very hard time losing weight with an incredible diet and cardio regime 5 days a week.

I had her get her thyroid levels checked and here are the results.

TSH 1.82 "Range is 0.270 - 4.2"
T3 84 "Range 80-200"
T4Free 1.07 "Range 0.93 - 1.70"

This was after our 4th child, her labs 2 years ago her t3 was 176 and she had no problem getting lean with such a dialed in diet.

Her t3 is right at the low level and I don't like that, I would rather her in the mid to high range.

The free t4 is on the lower side as well but more worried about active t3.

Obviously since its in range the doc wont do much even though I read online with other specialist that if their patients fall on the low normal side they would supplement asap.. they just dont list what they would do very precisely.

I would like some help in regards to this from perhaps someone that has a grasp on this subject.

Im thinking as if now 50mcg of t4 in the morning with 12.5mcg t3 then followed with another 12.5 t3 another 4 hours to start.. Then follow this up with bloods a month or 2 later.

Any ideas?


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Mid to 3/4 range for Free's is goal for the majority of people.

If your wife has never been on a replacement medication before - she should start with a T-4 only or Armour and see what happens in 6 weeks. She may convert just fine and not need Cytomel.

What other symptoms is your wife having other than inability to lose weight?

Is she planning on going to a different doctor to ask for replacement medication?


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

> Im thinking as if now 50mcg of t4 in the morning with 12.5mcg t3 then followed with another 12.5 t3 another 4 hours to start..


For the record, 25 mcg of T3 has the functional equivalent of 100 mcg of T4.

Such a dose is completely unnecessary in a person with a functioning thyroid such as your wife's.

Starting out at 150mcg of thyroid medication, with her numbers would endanger her health, quite frankly.

You can "shop" for a practitioner that will do it, but an appropriate trial dose would be 25mcg of T4.

You don't say how long it's been since the baby. Sometimes it takes a good bit of time--a year is not completely unusual--for the hormone balance to return to normal post partum. You also don't indicate if any antibodies tests were run that would indicate Hashimotos'.

Thyroid hormone is not a weight loss drug. Even if you take it, you still have to follow closely a diet and exercise plan.


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## tafuller80 (Jun 6, 2013)

its been 16 months since the baby...

I am a competing physique competitor so diet and training with us is all we do. We go to the gym 5 days a week for 2 hours like a religion and follow perfect eating habits with only one cheat meal a week.. Its just frustrating to her because she sees me at 7-8% body fat when she worked just as hard with a strict diet to now spin wheels.

I figured since t3 was directly low the 25mcg would help, t4 being the inactive hormone I almost thought supplementing with t3 only and then getting bloods done in a month.

I would like to see her TSH on the low end of normal and her t3 on the upper high end of normal..

Thanks for all your help, I came to these boards because you guys know this stuff inside and out.


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## tafuller80 (Jun 6, 2013)

Lovlkn said:


> Mid to 3/4 range for Free's is goal for the majority of people.
> 
> If your wife has never been on a replacement medication before - she should start with a T-4 only or Armour and see what happens in 6 weeks. She may convert just fine and not need Cytomel.
> 
> ...


tired, lack of energy, depression and lack of focus, hairloss, infrequent menstrual cycles...


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

Agreed with Lainey. Skipping over t4 medication, particularly with someone who has a functional thyroid, and going right to t3 meds (at very large doses I might add) is really dangerous.

I think its wise to do your research and think about the types and amounts of medication you'd be interested in trying...but having exact dosages and timing of meds is...kinda putting the cart before the horse, ya know? First, do no harm...


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## tafuller80 (Jun 6, 2013)

joplin1975 said:


> Agreed with Lainey. Skipping over t4 medication, particularly with someone who has a functional thyroid, and going right to t3 meds (at very large doses I might add) is really dangerous.
> 
> I think its wise to do your research and think about the types and amounts of medication you'd be interested in trying...but having exact dosages and timing of meds is...kinda putting the cart before the horse, ya know? First, do no harm...


I agree , we decided to start with t4 only then get bloods drawn in 4-6 weeks to see how she is at converting it to t3 and go from there.


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## Claire Voyant (Jun 4, 2013)

tafuller80 said:


> tired, lack of energy, depression and lack of focus, hairloss, infrequent menstrual cycles...


Has her doctor ruled out PCOS? My daughter suffers from PCOS with identical symptoms. If her thyroid levels are within "normal" range, perhaps there's another cause?


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

Good point, Claire...worth looking into.


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## tafuller80 (Jun 6, 2013)

Ill look Into this thanks again guys!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

tafuller80 said:


> My wife has a very hard time losing weight with an incredible diet and cardio regime 5 days a week.
> 
> I had her get her thyroid levels checked and here are the results.
> 
> ...












Boy...............................I am surprised your wife has any energy for you or the children much less for herself.

You are sooooooooooooooooooooooo right.

T3 (Total 3) is comprised of rT3 (reverse), bound and unbound hormone. So................it would be hard to know what the FREE T3 would be and in your wife's case, the T3 is so low, we already know she has little unbound FT3 which is the active hormone available for cellular uptake.

Also, I suspect antibodies to the TSH receptor site. One would think that TSH would be much higher so Trab would be a good idea because in reality she could be flipping back and forth between hyper and hypo. Many of us had the experience of not being able to lose weight while in this very predicament.

Here are some other tests which may be a good idea and definitely a thyroid ultra-sound as well.

TPO (antimicrosomal antibodies) TBII (thyrotropin-binding inhibitory immunoglobulin), Thyroglobulin and Thyroglobulin Ab, ANA (antinuclear antibodies), (thyroid hormone panel) TSH, Free T3, Free T4.

You can look this stuff up here and more.........
http://www.labtestsonline.org/

Trab
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17684583

FREE T3
Understanding the Thyroid: Why You Should Check Your Free T3
http://breakingmuscle.com/

Dr. Mercola (FREES)
http://www.mercola.com/article/hypothyroid/diagnosis_comp.htm

Free T3 and Free T4 are the only accurate measurement of the actual active thyroid hormone levels in the body. This is the hormone that is actually free and exerting effect on the cells. These are the thyroid hormones that count.


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

Are you a doctor?



> I agree , we decided to start with t4 only then get bloods drawn in 4-6 weeks to see how she is at converting it to t3 and go from there.


You said prior the doctor did not want to treat. Where are you getting the medication?



> I figured since t3 was directly low the 25mcg would help, t4 being the inactive hormone I almost thought supplementing with t3 only and then getting bloods done in a month.


I will be quite frank, but the "tone" of some of your comments leaves me to believe that you think you have this all figured out.

Keep in mind that certain cells do require exogenous T4, they will only make the T3 themselves. This is why T3 only therapy is not typically done as a long term solution. A vast majority of patients do not require T3 therapy, and the only way to determine it is to start with T4 therapy and see what happens to the levels.

Additionally, four weeks time is not enough to measure the effect of any thyroid medication. Six to eight weeks is a better time frame.

Be careful with the idea of low-normal TSH and high free T3. The nasty surprise that many people get with this path is increased fatigue and weight gain. Sub-clinical hyperthyroidism shares many of the same symptoms as sub-clinical hypothyroidism.

Low thyroid (and her thyroid is not that low, in truth), could not be the sole source of her symptoms.

Iron, B vitamins, vitamin D and sex hormone imbalances all can be responsible for the symptoms you describe. If her desire is to achieve low body fat--and no offense, she should not be comparing herself to you--that alone will cause menstrual irregularities, for example. Not to mention, a demanding "gym" schedule and home life with 4 children would stretch anyone to the fullest extent of their tolerances.

Perhaps you wife would like to post herself, so that we can counsel her directly?


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## tafuller80 (Jun 6, 2013)

just got home and she said they checked for that when her cycle was more messed up and all was good.


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## jiffer (Apr 1, 2013)

tafuller80 said:


> just got home and she said they checked for that when her cycle was more messed up and all was good.


Any idea how they checked her for PCOS? It can be hard to diagnose someone with PCOS. There is not one definative test that can be done. She does have all the symptoms of it.

I am one of the unlucky ones who have PCOS and a hypo thyroid. Which means my hair is fallling out faster then I can keep it. :sad0049:


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## Claire Voyant (Jun 4, 2013)

In my daughter's case, she had the classic symptoms but very few cysts. Her OB/Gyn ruled out PCOS. It wasn't until she was referred to a fertility specialist because she couldn't get pregnant that the specialist confirmed PCOS, began treatment and she was pregnant within four months.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

tafuller80 said:


> its been 16 months since the baby...
> 
> I am a competing physique competitor so diet and training with us is all we do. We go to the gym 5 days a week for 2 hours like a religion and follow perfect eating habits with only one cheat meal a week.. Its just frustrating to her because she sees me at 7-8% body fat when she worked just as hard with a strict diet to now spin wheels.
> 
> ...


25 mcg of T3 would knock your wife off her feet and could endanger her life.

If any patient starts on Cytomel; the recommended starting dose is 5 mcg. and many find they have to split that.

Also, her ferritin needs to be checked.


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## tafuller80 (Jun 6, 2013)

Ok so after all this we got a referral to a endo on June 18th..

I'm hoping he works with her symptoms and not her acceptable but low ranges.


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## tafuller80 (Jun 6, 2013)

Andros said:


> 25 mcg of T3 would knock your wife off her feet and could endanger her life.
> 
> If any patient starts on Cytomel; the recommended starting dose is 5 mcg. and many find they have to split that.
> 
> Also, her ferritin needs to be checked.


Being in the bodybuilding and physique scene it's my irrational brain that said 25mcg would be fine. Years ago I've personally ran 50-75mcg for 16 weeks straight. Had bloods taken few months after stopping and every time return to normal levels.. This was the case for dozens of people that would do the same thing.

Obviously I'm not looking for that for my wife or even for me anymore.

Lets hope this endo is on their game !


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

tafuller80 said:


> Being in the bodybuilding and physique scene it's my irrational brain that said 25mcg would be fine. Years ago I've personally ran 50-75mcg for 16 weeks straight. Had bloods taken few months after stopping and every time return to normal levels.. This was the case for dozens of people that would do the same thing.
> 
> Obviously I'm not looking for that for my wife or even for me anymore.
> 
> Lets hope this endo is on their game !


Hey, look, I'm not here to lecture anyone...and when I was younger I was a highly competite athlete - top in the nation type crap - and am still a gym rat...I get the pressure, I get how people recommend off label uses of drugs, and I get that some times the line gets blurry, but, dude...that regimine? 50-75mcgs of straight t3? That's so far beyond the line...it's abusive. That there's dozens of people doing it makes no difference. I think you realize this now, since you mentioned irrationale thinking, but I just had to say it. T3 is great for people who need it, but it can bang up your heart if you don't. Of course you want your wife's symptoms to ease up...but make sure you are focusing on those symptoms that impact how she functions on a day to day basis. You've got kids, they should be the priority, no need to dig their mother an early grave because y'all want her to look/weight a certain way/weight. Thyroid meds should never be used as weight loss drugs.


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## tafuller80 (Jun 6, 2013)

joplin1975 said:


> Hey, look, I'm not here to lecture anyone...and when I was younger I was a highly competite athlete - top in the nation type crap - and am still a gym rat...I get the pressure, I get how people recommend off label uses of drugs, and I get that some times the line gets blurry, but, dude...that regimine? 50-75mcgs of straight t3? That's so far beyond the line...it's abusive. That there's dozens of people doing it makes no difference. I think you realize this now, since you mentioned irrationale thinking, but I just had to say it. T3 is great for people who need it, but it can bang up your heart if you don't. Of course you want your wife's symptoms to ease up...but make sure you are focusing on those symptoms that impact how she functions on a day to day basis. You've got kids, they should be the priority, no need to dig their mother an early grave because y'all want her to look/weight a certain way/weight. Thyroid meds should never be used as weight loss drugs.


Solid post ! That's why I think staying off everything and getting with the endo is the best option now..

I added selenium , vitamin d , magnesium and zinc oh and a half a tab of iodoral to her natural regimen.


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