# latest labs on Armour...weird? advice?



## Enigma (Jun 13, 2011)

First labs on Armour (see the other results on synthetics in my signature). on 90mg Armour. Due to lab #s doc wants to lower it to 75 mg.

Been having some anxiety and ravenous hunger.... but overall feel pretty good. Also have dietary issues (eating too much fructose via Agave Nectar) so not sure how much that contributes to the numbers.

The FT3 looks ok but FT4 still looks low? TSH very low, but my doc says they don't treat based on TSH.

She says that this dosage is REPLACING my thyroid function, and they just want to "aid" my thyroid. However, I did not feel well on 75 mg, so not sure why I need to go back down.

Any thoughts/advice??

TSH 0.042 (0.400.4.00)
FT3 4.1 (2.8-5.3)
FT4 1.1 (0.7-1.9)

Vit D 38


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## McKenna (Jun 23, 2010)

Your FT3 it at about the mid point, which is good.

Anytime you're on a natural replacement, your TSH will be supressed and your FT4 will be lower. It's very good that your doctor doesn't dose based on TSH!

Armour takes a while to get used to. How did you go from synthetic to Armour? It's important to start smaller and go up slowly in dose.


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## Enigma (Jun 13, 2011)

I switched docs because my PCP was in over his head... I could tell he wasn't really comfortable treating me, and I wanted someone more familiar with women and thyroid issues. I felt horrible on T4 (even tho I was only on for 2 months) and asked my new doc to switch to Armour. I started for a week or so on 60 mg, then up to 90mg. I felt too revved so she had me do 75, the 75 and 90 every other day, then 90, all over the last 6 weeks.

What are your thoughts on lowering to 75mg? I am feeling like this won't be a good drop...


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## McKenna (Jun 23, 2010)

How did you feel alternating 75 and 90?

I know for me, that it takes me about a full 8 weeks to get used to a dose change of Armour. One time I went from 60 to 90 in one go and it was too much for me. I had to back down to 75 for a few weeks and then go up.


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## Enigma (Jun 13, 2011)

Going between 75 and 90 was too much of a rollercoaster. I didn't feel well on the 75 days (brain fog, achy, depressed) and felt much better on 90, minus the ravenous hunger. No more aches, brain fog gone (except for when hungry). When I went from 60 to 90 on the second week, that was just WAY too much of a jump. I have only been on 90 since August 20th- just about 3 weeks.

I am just confused why I need to go down and not looking forward to feeling bad again.

These were done fasting and before I took any meds, if that makes any difference.


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## McKenna (Jun 23, 2010)

I always fast my Armour the morning of blood work. If you don't, your T3 can look really inflated from that morning burst.

My endo has me on 90 all week, then 60 on Saturdays, which makes me feel tired and irritable on Sat. I hate it. But he was not comfortable when my TSH was .08 so he lowered it on that one day a week. My next blood work came back with my TSH even lower at .053 and I had to fight him to keep my dose where it was. I just had blood taken today so we'll see where it is, but I would like an increase of my Armour.

I wish I had an answer for you. Like I wrote above, it takes me a while to get used to my doses and I have to go slow.

When you feel anxious and hungry, does that go away as the day wears on? What I'm getting at is when your T3 goes back down from that morning burst, do you feel less symptoms? Some people dose twice or more per day for that reason.


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## Enigma (Jun 13, 2011)

McKenna... thank you again for all of your input!!

No, my symptoms don't go away. In fact, hunger wakes me up almost every night at 4 am... when I am hungry, I am not functional. It's not normal hunger. And I'm an emotional wreck when hungry. I have never been like that. Never.

However, the days that I haven't had agave nectar or any fruit, I have not had that hunger. I started eating the nectar and more fruit right when I started Armour, so it is hard to tell which is causing the hunger. And I never used to eat fruit. I hate most fruit. So this is all new to my body.

They are also waiting for the results of my saliva/urine adrenal test, which the doc said could be causing some of these problems. So, maybe, by going a bit slower with armour, they will work more with adrenal issues (which I have NO doubt that I suffer from, severely), and then can work on the thyroid meds again after those things are straightened out?

I don't mind being a human yo-yo... but it's how it effects my work, and whether I am able to work or not. I am a teacher (ages 11-14), so there are really no points of the day that I can relax, unless I am home.


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## McKenna (Jun 23, 2010)

I hope they can get it sorted out for you. Armour is great and does work well for a lot of people.

I don't know much about the Agave nectar, but have you increased your intake of sugars? I know you are eating more fruit and the agave and I'm wondering if you're having blood sugar spikes?


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## Enigma (Jun 13, 2011)

Agave has more fructose than High fruc. corn syrup... and I was eating a lot of it in my coffee. Apples (twice a day) have some of the highest fructose of any fruit... I am pretty sure I was having some blood sugar issues, but not from "normal" sugar, so I didn't even think about it. Since I've stopped eating Agave for a few days, and then monitored how I felt when I ate apples, I am 80% sure that the "ravenous" part came from the fructose, and jsut being hungry more often was from a more active metabolism.

ARGH... I am DREADING starting 75!!! I guess, I have an appointment next Tuesday, so worse come to worse, this week goes horribly and I can talk to the doc on Tuesday and go from there.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Enigma said:


> First labs on Armour (see the other results on synthetics in my signature). on 90mg Armour. Due to lab #s doc wants to lower it to 75 mg.
> 
> Been having some anxiety and ravenous hunger.... but overall feel pretty good. Also have dietary issues (eating too much fructose via Agave Nectar) so not sure how much that contributes to the numbers.
> 
> ...


Oh, Lord..........................your numbers look absolutely perfect. What is wrong with this lady? Has she taken leave?

FT3 is absolutely where it should be and so is the FT4 which we expect to be a bit lower due to taking T3.

You may have to find another doctor.

You feel good; don't you?

Re anxiety; get your ferritin checked.

Ferritin (should be 50 to 100; the closer to 100,the better) 
http://www.thewayup.com/newsletters/081504.htm

Dang; this is so discouraging that these doctors don't have a clue. It's like a 2 year old driving a car!


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## Enigma (Jun 13, 2011)

I feel better than I did... but not great. However, I've had A LOT of problems eating too much fructose lately (via agave nectar and apples) and I almost NEVER ate any fruit, and def never any agave... so the problems I am having seem to be related to that, and since I have stopped eating those the last 3 days, the hunger has completely gone away except for "normal" hunger. I had also started these diet changes at the same exact time as starting armour, so I was not able to sort the two out until doing more research this past weekend.

And my doctor (well nurse practitioner, but two different docs looked at these labs not my normal one) is supposed to not treat based on labs. Yet, they only tried to change my meds when they received these labs.

I don't want to lower my meds because i felt awful at 75. i want to stay on 90 and try the diet changes and then see how it all works out.

I am so frustrated. Finally thought i had found an office that is more reasonable when it comes to thyroid and now they want me to feel worse!?!

I have an appointment a week from today so I am tempted to stay on 90 with the diet changes and report back to them how it goes. i don't want to change in the middle of the week (and work) anyway- esp. knowing that i don't feel well at 75.


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## Enigma (Jun 13, 2011)

BTW, ferritin was checked in May and was 86.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Enigma said:


> I feel better than I did... but not great. However, I've had A LOT of problems eating too much fructose lately (via agave nectar and apples) and I almost NEVER ate any fruit, and def never any agave... so the problems I am having seem to be related to that, and since I have stopped eating those the last 3 days, the hunger has completely gone away except for "normal" hunger. I had also started these diet changes at the same exact time as starting armour, so I was not able to sort the two out until doing more research this past weekend.
> 
> And my doctor (well nurse practitioner, but two different docs looked at these labs not my normal one) is supposed to not treat based on labs. Yet, they only tried to change my meds when they received these labs.
> 
> ...


You might have to go doctor shopping again. I hate this for you. Try to nicely confront this doctor about treating based on how you are feeling rather than "exclusively" by the numbers.

Most of us do feel best w/TSH @ 1.0 or less and FREE T3 at about 75% of the range given by your lab.

Keep us in the loop. This is mighty discouraging to "all" of us. We are all in jeopardy whether we care to confront that fact or not.


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