# does hashi's and CFS go hand in hand? please help



## smelliebellie (Oct 14, 2012)

background:
went to the er 9/21 for severe hyper swing. at least i think thats what it was. sob, heart palps, anxiety, tremors, couldn't sit still, over all cold flu like feeling. LABS normal everything came back normal. felt like i wasted my time in er.

since 9/21 til this day, im experiencing fatigue, weight loss, insomnia, hair isnt falling out, very cold toes, itching at night, and occasional heart palps. my endo DIDNT diagnose me as having hashimoto's but WITH A TPO OF 933 (<60) you would think i have it. my TSI was 89 (<140%) and TgAb were HIGH 212 (<60) ultrasound came back clear. no nodules mass or cysts just mildly enlarged right lobe. went to a new endo, he said no need for fna since no nodules were found. sent me on my way with a prescription of xanax and said to see him in 3 months. FELT that i didnt need meds because my LABS WERE NORMAL even though i have obvious hypo symptoms

TSH 1.64 (0.3-3)
FREE T3 3.24 (2.5-3.9)
FREE T4 1.0 (0.58-1.64)
vitamin d 23 (20-49.9)

so, my question is.. since ive been not "debilitated" but limited to just being at home and no desire to go out because i feel short of breath and just extremely tired with joint aches/pains (worse in the am). is there something more going on with me? and if so, what should i get tested for? is it too early to say chronic fatigue syndrome or fibro? i heard lymes/mono mimic symptoms. DO thyroid issues gradually get worse? OR can you feel worse right when symptoms start showing up? (limited to staying at home due to being really tired, no brain fog, occasional joint aches/pains that i take motrin around the clock for) i also take vitamin d 2000 iu/day. please help


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## CA-Lynn (Apr 29, 2010)

Based on what you wrote above, you can rule out CFS for the time being. You simply don't meet the criteria simply on the basis of time. You would need to meet a bunch of criteria in addition to having had all those symptoms for 6 or more months.

Fibromyalgia also has a strict set of diagnostic criteria......and what you mentioned above does not seem to fit.

I know you're trying hard to figure out what the problem is, but I think you might be underestimating the symptoms in these two diseases.

Do you work? Full time?


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## smelliebellie (Oct 14, 2012)

yes, i do work full time as an rn at my local hospital. maybe im getting ahead of myself. but the fact that others have told me that thyroid disease has gradual symptoms scares me that ive been feeling extreme fatigue, aches and pains so suddenly for so long (going to be 4 weeks). im my own worse patient i guess from knowing too much as an RN. im almost like a hypochondriac!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

smelliebellie said:


> background:
> went to the er 9/21 for severe hyper swing. at least i think thats what it was. sob, heart palps, anxiety, tremors, couldn't sit still, over all cold flu like feeling. LABS normal everything came back normal. felt like i wasted my time in er.
> 
> since 9/21 til this day, im experiencing fatigue, weight loss, insomnia, hair isnt falling out, very cold toes, itching at night, and occasional heart palps. my endo DIDNT diagnose me as having hashimoto's but WITH A TPO OF 933 (<60) you would think i have it. my TSI was 89 (<140%) and TgAb were HIGH 212 (<60) ultrasound came back clear. no nodules mass or cysts just mildly enlarged right lobe. went to a new endo, he said no need for fna since no nodules were found. sent me on my way with a prescription of xanax and said to see him in 3 months. FELT that i didnt need meds because my LABS WERE NORMAL even though i have obvious hypo symptoms
> ...


Something is wrong; you should not have any TgAb nor should you have any TSI.

TSI
Normally, there is no TSI in the blood. If TSI is found in the blood, this indicates that the thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin is the cause of the of a person's hyperthyroidism. 
http://www.medicineonline.com/topics/t/2/Thyroid-Stimulating-Immunoglobulin/TSI.html

Thyroglobulin Ab
A negative test is normal. A negative test means no antibodies to thyroglobulin are found in your blood.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003557.htm
(The normal thyroid has Thyroglobulin in low titers but should not have Thyroglobulin Ab)

Understanding Thyroglobulin Ab.
http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/thyroglobulin/test.html

Thyroglobulin Ab and cancer
http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/59/2/429.full.pdf


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## sjmjuly (Mar 23, 2012)

Your D is very low. Are you taking supplements for this? Have you ever had your cortisol levels tested?


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## Keba (Aug 11, 2012)

Sorry but it sounds like Hashi's to me.
I know you need a biospy for a true diagnosis but with those labs, wow, shouldn't they be looking in that direction? 
I thought I was going nuts and having several different aliments, nope it was all Hashi's.
I was diagnosed on blood work alone.


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## sjmjuly (Mar 23, 2012)

Keba said:


> Sorry but it sounds like Hashi's to me.
> I know you need a biospy for a true diagnosis but with those labs, wow, shouldn't they be looking in that direction?
> I thought I was going nuts and having several different aliments, nope it was all Hashi's.
> I was diagnosed on blood work alone.


I think hashi's too. I know how crappy I felt and my TPO was only 439. If it were me, I would start doc shopping and find one that really understands hashi's and how to treat it. I finally ended up with a naturopath.


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## smelliebellie (Oct 14, 2012)

ive looked into naturopaths. but they are expensive. and i know they wont prescribe meds. i just hope if i go to one, i dont waste my time. i know this process will take a while to get better. it sucks, ive been so depressed because i have obvious hypo symptoms fro my hashi's and this first endo didnt want to do anything to help me. since my u/s didnt show nodules,mass or cysts the endo didnt recommend an FNA. he said theres no chance of cancer since it showed nothing but a mildly enlarged right lobe. the supplements i take for my D is 2000iu/day. THAT I DECIDED TO TAKE MYSELF. the endo said 1000/day but i dont think he knows what hes talking about if he cant even treat my hashi's.  my cortisol levels were also tested and according to HIM he said they were fine:

*cortisol baseline (taken at 0800 am) fasting:* 15.2 (8.7-22.4)
*cortisol 30 mins: * 29.7 no reference range for this
*cortisol 60 mins*: 36.4 normal peak serum cortisol is > 20 ug/dL. peak value is more important than the incremental change. incremental change may not be seen in patients tested at times of stress, when their output of cortisol is maximum.

btw, i had these done

estradiol 126 
non preg females 
mid follicular phase 24-114
periovulatory 62-534
mid luteal phase 80-273

FSH 2.3
mid follicular phase 3.8-8.8
mid cycle peak 4.5.-22.5
mid luteal phase 1.8-5.1
postmenopausal 16.7-113.6

what do u think?


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## sjmjuly (Mar 23, 2012)

smelliebellie said:


> ive looked into naturopaths. but they are expensive. and i know they wont prescribe meds. i just hope if i go to one, i dont waste my time. i know this process will take a while to get better. it sucks, ive been so depressed because i have obvious hypo symptoms fro my hashi's and this first endo didnt want to do anything to help me. since my u/s didnt show nodules,mass or cysts the endo didnt recommend an FNA. he said theres no chance of cancer since it showed nothing but a mildly enlarged right lobe. the supplements i take for my D is 2000iu/day. THAT I DECIDED TO TAKE MYSELF. the endo said 1000/day but i dont think he knows what hes talking about if he cant even treat my hashi's.  my cortisol levels were also tested and according to HIM he said they were fine:
> 
> *cortisol baseline (taken at 0800 am) fasting:* 15.2 (8.7-22.4)
> *cortisol 30 mins: * 29.7 no reference range for this
> ...


My naturopath prescribed my Naturethroid. They can be expensive though if your insurance won't cover it.


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## smelliebellie (Oct 14, 2012)

sjmjuly,
do you pay out of pocket for your visits? and also for your naturethyroid?


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## CA-Lynn (Apr 29, 2010)

Your cortisol test is normal. Typically the results double at the 30 minute mark. And yours did.


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## surge (Aug 15, 2012)

I agree with other people here: I DO think it's hashis, and I DO think it's b/c of the antibodies. That's what I have and it's hard to put one foot in front of the other most days. My legs ache and ache. Fwiw, my numbers also look 'normal' except my TSH indicates low function while my FT4 and FT3 indicate normal.

I'm getting my thyroid out b/c it's been 6 months of unabated issues with leg pain, hair loss, heart palps, and now my blood pressure is rising. It's up from borderline low (90/60) to high normal (128/75), though I have to say, it doesn't feel normal to me at that rate... It's, all in all, kind of miserable, so don't doubt the power of the hashimoto's to make your life draining.

I'm not sure what I can say except: you should find an endo who knows more about hashis, as someone else here already suggested. You are not on any meds right now? If you want to try Armour or something like that you could also ask about that while you're looking for the new endo. Maybe you want an endo open to prescribing a dessicated thyroid pill.

Get your iron checked, while you're at it, and also think about fish oil, if you don't take it already, because it can help calm the inflammation that's obviously raging in your body, if you consider your antibody numbers...though fish oil on it's on isn't going to make or break you. Your body is suffering right now and you do need patience with yourself and a good endo or NP.


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## sjmjuly (Mar 23, 2012)

smelliebellie said:


> sjmjuly,
> do you pay out of pocket for your visits? and also for your naturethyroid?


I do pay out of pocket. But my Naturethroid is cheap. 90 days costs me about $30. I have an FSA through work and that helps.


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## smelliebellie (Oct 14, 2012)

i was told to get the 24 hour saliva cortisol test that i can probably obtain from mymedlab.com. what do u guys think? despite my normal cortisol blood test being normal.....


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