# Mood swings/SAD



## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

*Since I started NDT a few years ago I began to suffer from mood swings and SAD. I have never had SAD before in my life except when I was a teenager in ND where our winters were long, cold and miserable. I would get SAD late afternoons in the winter. After I got through puberty I no longer had the SAD... until I started NDT many years later! Now I even get SAD on a cloudy day in the summer. Anyone else experience this with NDT? I told my DO that I thought the NDT was causing the SAD since it's made with pig hormones that are said to be almost identical to human hormones, but he shook his head no. I disagree with him. Why would this pop up after all these years as soon as I started taking NDT? It's a feeling I can't really describe other than a dark cloud comes over my brain and I shake my head trying to get rid of it... it's an icky feeling!*


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

This SAD sounds like depression to me.

It was the opposite for me.

I had a nasty feeling all my life till thyroid disease came into it.

Synthroid amost killed me but the NDT has taken away that nasty feeling along with most hypo symptoms.

I still deal with stomach issues that are somewhat managable.

You might need one of those lights you sit in front of and gives you artificial sunlight?

Maybe you have clinical depression?

Thyroid hormone is a treatment and no cure.

Some symptoms will remain.

And you'll need to deal with them like another separate disease.

You might need to take another pill????????????/


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

NDT doesn't work for everyone. Have you had your antibodies tested while going on it. Some people see spikes in the antibodies which would be a sign it doesn't sit well with your body. It's something to consider.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

Synthroid ~Levo is usually the 1st hormone prescribed..

There's only two types. natural and synthetic.

It's for me "which one has the less side effects".

Levo's poison to me.

My antibobies are off the charts with both hormones'.

Nothing lowers them.

I tried vitimans , no gluten or dairy.

I even cut out coffee for awhile. "I almost lost my mind"

If they come out with something new I'd try it.

I can function where I'm at now until something new.


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

Not sure what helped me, I believe it was the diet. But my Antibodies when from 1980 to 225 to 181 to 100 (a few months ago for the 100). Does that mean anything? I don't know. But I figure it's a good sign.

I prefer Synthroid over Levo, but I didn't have too horrible of reactions. I don't think I had issues with the pills themselves (some people do with the fillers). Another option is Tirosint which is only a few ingredients. Supposedly people with absorption issues do well on it. However, it's pretty expensive if you don't find a way to get insurance to cover it well, or using a coupon etc.

I don't want to try that one yet...but I may at some point.

I do think NDT works for some folks. But it also appears to be one that can go bad for people as well...if it's not well prescribed and managed. The hyper side of things is no good. I personally would rather try taking some T3 with my T4. But I also rather try and get myself optimal without having to do the T3...will I be able to, hard to say. Of course, the other question is, is FT3 in upper range actually what I need? I don't know...too much conflicting information on the subject.

I've been able to exercise lately and that's helped me a lot. And I've been going to sleep at a normal time (speaking of...)


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

I'd love to be able to take synthetics.

It's cheaper and more readily avalible.

I tried all of them including Tirosint with horrible results from all.

I become more hypo with signs & symptoms and once ended up in the ER.

I have no allergic reaction to any fillers.

It's the synthetics whether it be T3 or T4 I can't tolerate any of it.

So NDT is my only other option except "DEATH"


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

Luckily NDT is still around...though I know they have some ups and downs for stocking them. My cousin uses NP Thyroid which she says she's doing well with. She had some major problems with Naturethroid (sounded like she was very hyper on it). She was using WP Thyroid and they ran out of it.

So that's one reason I'm hesitant to use it.

However, I may have to add some synthetic T3 at some point.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

I'm on Armour.

It's not perfect and I get a little hyper sometimes and a little hypo.

I don't want to take the time and potential problems trying any other NDT right now.

I've never had to do without Armour and CVS has had to order it a few times when they ran out.

I always have a two to three month supply on hand just incase.

I've said it before on here......

I feel like a drug addict sometimes...&#8230;.

Doing without is like permanent withdraws...&#8230;&#8230;..


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

GOLGO13 said:


> Luckily NDT is still around...though I know they have some ups and downs for stocking them. My cousin uses NP Thyroid which she says she's doing well with. She had some major problems with Naturethroid (sounded like she was very hyper on it). She was using WP Thyroid and they ran out of it.
> 
> So that's one reason I'm hesitant to use it.
> 
> However, I may have to add some synthetic T3 at some point.


I started out with Synthroid and wasted 22 years on it.. and had 8 naive doctors at the same time that didn't do the right tests. They all did the one-size-fits-all TSH test which was useless in my case. Turns out my body doesn't convert stored hormone to active hormone, so the NDT works wonderfully. First used Armour, then I found out that Westhroid aka WP thyroid was from pigs fed a healthier diet and had less filler so I switched to that. Then Westhroid sold to another co so they were out of stock for about 6 mos. In the meantime I was put on Naturethroid, which has too many fillers, so after doing some research I requested to be put on NP Thyroid, which is identical to Westhroid aka WP Thyroid. I won't use WP Thyroid anymore cuz they quadrupled the price on it when it became available again. I'll stick with NP Thyroid which is dirt cheap when using GoodRX.com!


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

creepingdeath said:


> This SAD sounds like depression to me.
> 
> It was the opposite for me.
> 
> ...


 SAD is depression. It's called seasonal depression. I only have it here and there. If it was clinical I'd be depressed all the time and I'm not that thank God! I'm still thinking it's the hormones in the NDT that is causing this.

I do use the light box in the wintertime, but when I'm driving to the store in the summer and it's cloudy out and the depression comes over my brain like a wave, then it just happens.. no light box will fix that. I don't need anymore meds because my numbers are good on NP Thyroid. They were horrible on Synthroid. I was just wondering if anyone else that took NDT had these issues on dark days.


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

Oh...how are your Vitamin D levels? Not sure if that's to blame for the seasonal stuff.

I don't seem to have any depression stuff yet. But I do have anxiety which got really bad at one point. Now it's pretty good other than certain family situations (seeing family and having to deal with complaints on my diet and such). I did have some at work, and probably still do to a certain extent. But my anxiety is almost done.

I'm wondering on the people not doing good on Synthroid if it's the same situation I'm in. FT3 is either low in the range or mid-low. Which is either not converting, or just how my body works...or the fact that my thyroid is mostly toast. So a combination of T4 and T3 should work even if it's both synthetic. NDT being an option also, but I'm wary of it and it maybe hard to find someone willing to prescribe it.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

GOLGO13 said:


> Oh...how are your Vitamin D levels? Not sure if that's to blame for the seasonal stuff.
> 
> I don't seem to have any depression stuff yet. But I do have anxiety which got really bad at one point. Now it's pretty good other than certain family situations (seeing family and having to deal with complaints on my diet and such). I did have some at work, and probably still do to a certain extent. But my anxiety is almost done.
> 
> I'm wondering on the people not doing good on Synthroid if it's the same situation I'm in. FT3 is either low in the range or mid-low. Which is either not converting, or just how my body works...or the fact that my thyroid is mostly toast. So a combination of T4 and T3 should work even if it's both synthetic. NDT being an option also, but I'm wary of it and it maybe hard to find someone willing to prescribe it.


Most regular doctors are very naive about NDT and many believe old rumors about NDT that are absolutely false. I had to find a DO to get the right treatment, but a couple of endocs I saw also prescribe it. Most regular MDs don't have a clue. Before NDT I was on both Synthroid and Cytomel, which is synthetic T3 and I did horribly. I had the lowest dose of T3, 5mg and cut that in half and it still made me feel like I had taken speed. That's when I said screw this and I found a DO and started getting the right treatment and a knowledgeable doctor!

P.S. I haven't had my D levels checked in a long time!


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

Ever try anti depressants ?

I'm no stranger.

I have a prescription for diazapam for anxiety.

I don't take them all the time but it sure is great to have when you need it.

Anxiety can cause depression so one thing leads to another.

A little drastic but you could always move to where it's sunny all the time.........


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

ssMarilyn said:


> Before NDT I was on both Synthroid and Cytomel, which is synthetic T3 and I did horribly. I had the lowest dose of T3, 5mg and cut that in half and it still made me feel like I had taken speed. That's when I said screw this and I found a DO and started getting the right treatment and a knowledgeable doctor!


Get those D levels checked...low Vitamin D is very common for us. Mine was 20 (range 30-100). Even with taking 5000 a day, my levels are only between 40 and 50. Blah.

Your statement above is why I'm worried about doing that type of thing. Because I think I'd have similar reactions. And while my Endo is willing to to T3 with T4 (not NDT), I'm not so sure she'd know how to deal with dosing it. So I'm hoping I can get Sythroid to work on it's own, but I know it's been hard to get dialed in. I'm probably at my best mentally and physically right now as I have been, but I feel like I am still far from where I should be. some days I get a bit of stress and I'm super low thyroid for a day or two. So I'm somewhat fragile in that regard.

Hope you get things figured out! Vitamin D could be the key.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

creepingdeath said:


> I'd love to be able to take synthetics.
> 
> It's cheaper and more readily avalible.
> 
> ...


*My NP Thyroid is around $85 for 3 months using Goodrx.com*


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

creepingdeath said:


> Ever try anti depressants ?
> 
> I'm no stranger.
> 
> ...


*I took Desyrel (sp) for 3 days when my thyroid first crashed years ago and I had horrible anxiety, but it made me wake up angry.. a side effect, so I stopped. I don't want man-made drugs, I want to address the issue with natural remedies if at all possible.*


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

GOLGO13 said:


> Get those D levels checked...low Vitamin D is very common for us. Mine was 20 (range 30-100). Even with taking 5000 a day, my levels are only between 40 and 50. Blah.
> 
> Your statement above is why I'm worried about doing that type of thing. Because I think I'd have similar reactions. And while my Endo is willing to to T3 with T4 (not NDT), I'm not so sure she'd know how to deal with dosing it. So I'm hoping I can get Sythroid to work on it's own, but I know it's been hard to get dialed in. I'm probably at my best mentally and physically right now as I have been, but I feel like I am still far from where I should be. some days I get a bit of stress and I'm super low thyroid for a day or two. So I'm somewhat fragile in that regard.
> 
> Hope you get things figured out! Vitamin D could be the key.


*I'm getting my D levels checked when I see my DO this month. I love NDT.... it gave me my life back, but.... I do think the hormones in it affect me in a negative way at times.*


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

I don't know what to tell you?

A lot of people use weed these days for all types of issues.

It's natural & not addictive but also is illegal in your state but that doesn't stop most people.

They have edibles now instead of smoking which no one wants anymore..

I used to smoke weed years ago and it did help with my past depression.

I think you normally have this condition and without NDT you don't when you're not normal.

Which symptoms would you want to have is the choice you're at now.

Hypo symptoms including possible death or depression that could be treated with anti depressants?

They have all kinds of mind controlling drugs.

I'd try them all till one works.

You haven't given up yet so keep on searching.

The anxiety I have is caused by the NDT when I go a little hyper and when needed the small dose of diazepam "valium" takes the edge off...&#8230;&#8230;.and makes me normal...&#8230;&#8230;.


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