# Best thing to lower antibodies?



## Seawacrew (Sep 23, 2012)

I am recently dx and I know it's a long journey so I'm trying to not be too number obsessed! My TPO was high and then lowered and then I finally found a doc who would put me on thyroid meds (nature thryoid) but she gave me 1/4 grain until I insisted I needed more and now I'm on 4 1/4 grains and will be adjusted as labs are drawn. Tsh is still high but not as high as originally and the reason I was sick initially was a virus. Neuro said post viral syndrome that went to my brain and spine - causes lots of havoc but I'm beg to feel better overall. What has helped your TPO levels decrease? My doc is more concerned that they don't jump up into the thousands. Is that right? I hate even a TPO of 300.
Thank you!

JH


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

Is that 4 times 1/4 grain or 4 and 1/4 grains?????

Could you share some lab numbers?

Thyroid medication does not control antibodies necessarily. They wax and wane on their own.


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## Seawacrew (Sep 23, 2012)

Four 1/4 grains. I was on 1 1/4 grain for 6 weeks before I began re reading Stop The Thyroid madness and went to 2 1/4 grains in am and another one in afternoon. I got my labs back and dr said I could go to 4 1/4 grains or 65Mg. Labs - Thyroid antibodies
sept 2011 quest -kaiser
TSH 4.27/previous 4.26
T4 free 1.37
T4 total 9.00
T3 free 2.6
TgAb 22*
TPO 322

May 2012 labcorp
Tsh 3.69
T4 8.8
T3 uptake 33
Free thyroxine index 2.9
TPO 110

Sept 2012 labcorp
Tsh 2.55
T4 6.9
T3 uptake 31
Free thyroxine index 2.1
TPO 285


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Can you please post your ranges.

My TPO antibodies did nothing but go up while on anti thyroid meds. Since surgery I have no idea where they are as they do not test antibodies post op but imagine the TPO would have disappeared by not having a thyroid.

I would think as long as your thyroid is inflamed you would have TPO antibodies.


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## angel1976 (Nov 15, 2011)

Selenium can lower antibodies but the results of that study are highly controversial


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

Armour should be dosed based on the free T3.

I see that you have not had that done in a year.

You should have free T4, free T3 and TSH run to monitor the effectiveness of your replacement. Antibodies are used primarily for diagnosis, not as a measure of the effectiveness of treatment.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Seawacrew said:


> I am recently dx and I know it's a long journey so I'm trying to not be too number obsessed! My TPO was high and then lowered and then I finally found a doc who would put me on thyroid meds (nature thryoid) but she gave me 1/4 grain until I insisted I needed more and now I'm on 4 1/4 grains and will be adjusted as labs are drawn. Tsh is still high but not as high as originally and the reason I was sick initially was a virus. Neuro said post viral syndrome that went to my brain and spine - causes lots of havoc but I'm beg to feel better overall. What has helped your TPO levels decrease? My doc is more concerned that they don't jump up into the thousands. Is that right? I hate even a TPO of 300.
> Thank you!
> 
> JH


How high is this TPO; 300? Or higher? That would suggest the you definitely would benefit from an ultra-sound of the thyroid.

You sure are on a high dose of NatureThyroid! What is your gender, please?

Bummer about that virus; are you fully recovered now?


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## CA-Lynn (Apr 29, 2010)

Come to think of it, I've not heard of any biologic drug [e.g., Humira, Enbrel.....] designed to combat Hashimoto's or Graves antibodies.

That said, it's interesting that since I started Humira for autoimmune arthritic diseases about 18 months ago, my autoimmune thyroid has been calm and relatively stable. The antigens are different in RA and Hashimoto's and Graves, but I'm thinking there may be some mild "cast off" effect going on. I guess the test would be to go off the biologic drug and see if the thyroid disease flares.....and I'm certainly not going to do that.

Ironically, people who are on Humira, for example, often have autoimmune thyroid issues. Does Humira cause this? Probably not. More than likely people with Rheumatoid Arthritis are lethargic [they always are] and the rheumtologist wants to rule out thyroid disease......and in the process discovers Hashimoto's or Graves....or not.

About 1 in 4-5 Humira patients thyroid disease.

So which came first, the chicken or the egg?


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

I will add that when I was on Lipitor (which is a powerful anti-inflammatory, besides lowering your cholesterol) my antibodies were quite low. Since I have changed to Crestor, they have gone back up.....

Coincidentally, my TSH shifted quite a bit when I changed these meds, resulting in a dosage change on the synthroid.


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## CA-Lynn (Apr 29, 2010)

Crestor and Lipitor are not "biologics*" and shouldn't [theoretically] mask the antibodies.

*Drugs that alter the antibodies in one of a few different mechanisms.


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

Yes, but if antibodies are also inflammatory, maybe a drug that has impact on certain types of inflammation may also have an impact on certain others. Cardiovascular disease is closely linked with hypothyroidism, so it's not unreasonable to hypothesize that what works on one might work on the other. There certainly could be other ways of reducing the action of thyroid antibodies--who really knows what might work, we would just need researchers sufficiently motivated to find it.
Inflammation from autoantibodies is in a way somewhat self perpetuating, hence the idea that some have that keeping the TSH very suppressed will reduce their action on the thyroid. 
No research here, just my own experience as an interesting anecdote.


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## CA-Lynn (Apr 29, 2010)

I understand what you're saying, Lainey.

What I'm saying is that the mode of operation for a biologic drug [i.e., Humira] is totally different than the mode of operation for an anti-inflammatory.

A lot of diseases are "linked closely" to other diseases only because it's coincidental. It's when a person goes to the doctor for one ailment that he discovers he's had a second and third one. Doesn't mean there's a corelation between the diseases.

The one thing we can all agree on is that we really know very little about the pathogenesis of most diseases.


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

Well yes, it's like fixing an old house. You never find one problem, there are always several that need attention 

With autoimmune diseases, it's pretty well documented that they come in clusters. The interesting question is what triggers the overall response. Just as in cancer it only takes one cell to go haywire, it's a puzzle why when one set of antibodies sets itself upon a body system, it's so common for others to "wake". Biologics are a blessing, because they are so specific, but also present issues because they lower overall immune response. How do we target so many specific negative antibody processes with out damaging the very necessary infection fighting mechanism?


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## CA-Lynn (Apr 29, 2010)

Although "they come in clusters" they are not necessarily related.

A person with a genetic makeup that includes HLA-B27 might have both autoimmune diseases Ankylosing Spondylitis and Psoriatic Arthritis........but if he also has Hashimoto's [HLA-DR], that's incidental. There is no co-relationship with the Human Leukocyte Antigen.

Now, if the Hashimoto's patient is positive for HLA-DR5 [and not HLA-DR4] he may also be a target for one type of RA with the same HLA.

It's a very complex system and just because one is positive for one of the antigens does not mean one will get the disease. Most autoimmune diseases need a specific trigger,


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

This idea applies to family history too. One of the surprising results of the genome project was the revelation of just how much of the genome is active and the sheer number of mutations from generation to generation. While family history of disease is a risk factor (and I am not including here certain genetically bases diseases where we have identified the gene thought to contribute and can test for it), it is not a certainty. Just because one, or even several members of a family have a type of a disease, doesn't mean that others will have it.

I think the more we know, the less we know.


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## CA-Lynn (Apr 29, 2010)

LOL The more I learn, the stupider I realize I am.

A few years ago, on a lark, I sent a saliva sample to 23andMe and it's amazing the information I got back about my genetics.


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