# NDT rollercoaster - Jan Eriks Thread



## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

I need help on my dosing with Nature Throid. Because of prizing I chose to switch from Armour to Nature in November last year. At the time I was on 105 mg Armour . My 105 Armour Lab was 09.10.2015(9 October 2015)

TSH 0,84 (range 0,2-4,0)

Free T4 14,5 (range 11-23,0)

Free T3 5,7 (range 3,5-6,5)

II then added 3/4 NT the 27 November to 60 mg armour (total 105) and my labs 23 Desember on this was:

TSH 3,7 (range 0,2-4,0)

Ft4 15,2 (range 11-23,0)

Ft3 5,4 (range 3,5-6,5)

I stayed on this but got another lab 22 january. At this time my body did start to hurt:

TSH 3,5 (range 0,2-4,0)

Ft4 14,1 (range 11-23,0)

Ft3 5,1 (range 3,5-6,5)

So this was clearly underdosing. My gland starts to hurt also

On 28 January I switched to 120 mg NT only

Labwork 17 february (3 weeks) showed a little up:

TSH 2,7(range 0,2-4,0)

FT4 14,1(range 11-23,0)

Ft3 5,7(range 3,5-6,5)

First week on 120 I got a little bit hyper from the Ft3 but after three weeks I felt hypo with a heartbeat at the evening aroun 42-43 beats. Now,last thursday that was turned upsidedown ! Suddenly i got two panicattacks to start it and now feeling hyper with HB around 65 in the evening and pounding away very easily when doing even light training. Im trembling and have a lot off mental issues. I wake up at 0430 and do my mind grumbling which ends up in nauseea and more trembling Im no sure what to do now. My gland still hurts the most of the day. And I got a lot of Ants cravling away,aching in muscles and a strange currentlike feeling in my lower limbs.Any suggestions?


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Can you please edit your post and add the ranges for your labs.

Since you had RAI, it may be harder to stabilize on replacement med's, your thyroid may still be producing some thyroid hormones which is why.

Based on your TSH alone, you do look to be quite hypo.

What supplements do you take? I wonder if you are having absorption issues due to food or supplement intake.


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

When do you take your Naturethroid and when do you take your supplements?


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

I take my NDT in two 65 mg doses at 0930 AM and 0500 PM. I take my b12,d vitamins, and multiminerals at breakfast 0730 and magnesium and sink at bedtime.


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## Pamzilla13 (Sep 9, 2013)

Jeschiotz said:


> Lovlkn,range is in the first LAB. I take B12,D3 vitamins,Multiminerals,Magnesium and Zink. In short,can I expect that the hyperstate Im in to be normalized ? And is there anyone else on NT which gives trouble compared to similar dose of Armour?


 I had a similar experience with Nature Throid. I became hypo with an equivalent dose of Armour. Armour is expensive, but in my situation I don't have a choice... Good luck.


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

Okey,new bloodworks today concludes the roundup. Im getting more hypo by the minute on NT! Last lab on 120 mg NT:

TSH 3,8 (range 0,2-4,0)

Free T4 15,3 (range 11-23,0)

Free T3 5,2 (range 3,5-6,5)

Well, what now? Im going for a training camp in one week. Will it help to switch to armour 120 mg? Or should I raise my NT dose?


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

Is there any calcium or iron in your multiminerals?


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

jenny v said:


> Is there any calcium or iron in your multiminerals?


Yes,200 mg Calcium and 5 mg iron


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## Pamzilla13 (Sep 9, 2013)

Armour 120mg = 130mg Nature Throid. Perhaps that's your issue? You are under dosing by taking 120mg Nature Throid?


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

Pamzilla13 said:


> Armour 120mg = 130mg Nature Throid. Perhaps that's your issue? You are under dosing by taking 120mg Nature Throid?


No,there is no difference in the active contents Ft3/Ft4


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

I think we've found one issue--you need to make sure you aren't taking calcium or iron within 4 hours of taking your NDT. Both of those can block the absorption of NDT.


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

jenny v said:


> I think we've found one issue--you need to make sure you aren't taking calcium or iron within 4 hours of taking your NDT. Both of those can block the absorption of NDT.


.

Thanks for answering evertbody! 
I doubt that so small traces of mineral can do any thing. I mean I take my cerreals with milk for breakfast like I allways Did.
Today I switched back to Armour. Im not sure but after 120 mg I swear I notice some things. Like getting a little bit "High" around noon!


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

4-5 days on Armour 120 now. Bp is higher and temprature raised from 36,6 to 37. Something is happening. But questions is,do I now overdose or should I expect to be normal BP and temp after a while? Im struggling with Nausea as well


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## WhatHappened (Nov 12, 2015)

I can't answer nausea for you, but I think I speak for everyone when I say patience. It can be tempting (I know) to rush your body, but the right meds are a moving target. How your body absorbs the medicine, how your metabolism changes and uses it. So, no, I don't think it is time to overdose!


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

Oh,BTW its not my BP(BloodPressure) thats fluctates its my HB (heartbeat rate). Pardon my English.

Infact,I had a OK day yesterday. I was feeling calm and HB was close to normal at rest. But today Im back with all sorts of pain and restless state. Is this normal in the way to get well? That there will be better days in between before horror returns?


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

That's very common, good days and bad days. Eventually, when you get your meds dialed in correctly, the good days will be more frequent than the bad days.


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

New labs : After one week on Armour 120 :

TSH 3,2 (range 0,2-4,0)

Free T4 16,3 (range 11-23,0)

Free T3 5,6(range 3,5-6,5)

... and the I did a hard bike 4 day training camp where I didnt take care how I felt. Afterwards I took another bloodtest:

After 2 weeks on 120 Armour:

TSH 4,6 (range 0,2-4,0)

Free T4 15,1 (range 11-23,0)

Free T3 5,8 (range 3,5-6,5)

Indeed my heavy trainin inflected on my bloodstatus

Anyway. 2 weeks after the last result Im really struggling feeling very low. When can I expect picking up my good feeling again?


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

Yes, you can! It was a trial conducted by my Dr to see if training could affect Thyroid status and was planned a time ago. For me its interesting to see changes in lab before the recomended time of 6 weeks.


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

Eh, it's up to you, but I've never noticed any kind of change in the 1-2 week period. It's more 4-6 weeks for me and doing labs that often would be a waste of time and money for me.


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

Can we get nervous,high pulse and inside trembling on too low dose?


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## WhatHappened (Nov 12, 2015)

I've had muscle tremors and muscle twitches when hypo. I imagine, that you will find it hard to stabilize if your level of effort is not consistent.


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

WhatHappened said:


> I've had muscle tremors and muscle twitches when hypo. I imagine, that you will find it hard to stabilize if your level of effort is not consistent.
> 
> You mean that if I change dose every forthnight its difficult to figure out the sideeffects?


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

WhatHappened said:


> Both dose and physical effort. I would think keeping both consistent for more than a fortnight would be helpful. Your hormone levels would still be adjusting to the new dose.


Yeah,youre probably right about this. But with that TSH it seems for me that goal should be to have TSH in range especially when not feeling well at all. So I changed the dose again for 14 days ago.


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## WhatHappened (Nov 12, 2015)

The half lives are all different, tsh, t4, t3. Also building up or stepping down doses takes time for the hormones. Patience I think is a good approach.


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

Generally speaking. anyone knows when to choose to adjust the dose? Im in week three omn new dose of armour and the same hypo symptoms shows up again. My body freeze up ,and I am exhausted to the limit of just standing up. Strangely enough this happens on day 22 after a dose adjustment just as last time. I dont dare to adjust more up as my pulse is quite high at the moment including a bloodpressure of 145/90


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

TSH 0,87 (range 0,2-4,0)

Free T4 17,3 (range 11-23,0)

Free T3 6,6(range 3,5-6,5)

Muscle trembling,night sweats, nervous, high BP (160/90), high resting pulse


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

What is your current dose and how long have you been on it? Also, did you take it before you did those labs?

To me, it looks like you're hyper. Your Free T3 is out of range, which can cause your symptoms.


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

Hi,thanx for answer. Guess Im hyper since the bloodtests was 12 hours away from last NDT intake. Been on 132 for 4 weeks when this lab happened. Go down with 15 mg again?


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

You were raising your dosage pretty quickly, right?


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

Well, if you think every 4 weeks is quickly? I intend to stick to 120 for 6 weeks this time. After 3.5 weeks I feel to high still. Strange,since heartrate and temp fell after 3-4 days but after 14 it starts to go up again.


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## WhatHappened (Nov 12, 2015)

Six weeks until full concentration and you overcome the drug's half life. I always feel a little better 3-5 days out, then feel a little let down a week or two after that and then smooth out. But that's me.


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

Feeeling awfull right now. My hands is really shaking and Im sweating at night


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

Newsupdate: On 120 for 5 weeks. TSH 1.9 and sinking. Ft3 5,8 steady and Ft 4 15.Rt3 has dropped to 0.29 from 0.34 on the same dose. (I tried 135 for 1 month and Rt3 was 0.40) Im still feeling overdosed with sweat and fine trembling in hands. My Ferritin is over 100 but rest of iron is low. My Kortisol is fine. I got TSH on 1.9 on this dose. Early winter I got TSH on 3,5 on the same dose. So seems that body absorbs Armour better now. I adjust down to 105 and will try to correct my Iron panel. MY b12 is 365.


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## Jeschiotz (Feb 26, 2016)

Still feeling hyper after 2 weeks on 105 mg. In fact my pulse has gone up instead of down?? Any suggestions?


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