# Thyroid ratios??? Can any sense be made of "perfect" ratios???



## chopper (Mar 4, 2007)

ok, so as I forever ponder my own thyroid I decided to see where I may stand compared to "normal" people and as I guessed, things are out of whack.

I was wondering if anyone out there thinks any sense can be made for using ratios to gauge wellness?

The top numbers are my actual labs. I took my last 8 labs that were taken over the course of a year and a few months and compared them to different "normal" scenarios - numbers that you might find in a perfectly healthy person.

Does anyone see anything interesting about this and do you think this is something doctors may want to ponder? I personally think there may be something to it, even though numbers fluctuate quite a bit:


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

I don't think that there is any such thing as a "perfect" ratio.

Doctors aren't going to be bothered with that much math and with good reason.

Treating thyroid disease is inherently subjective in that proper treatment, ie resolution of symptoms, involves the patient reporting on how they "feel", which is in no way quantifiable on a broad basis.

In your case, with the exception of the "normal" T3 (I won't ask where you generated your numbers for your "healthy" scenario, or if it could be considered "scientific") you are pretty clearly hypo, so what's the story with additional replacement? Are you still titrating upward?


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## chopper (Mar 4, 2007)

Well, the exception of normal T3 is a huge exception. As soon as I take meds my T3 goes through the roof, in addition to my very high TSI, TPO and TG antibodies.

Since most of my symptoms are hyper (heart palps, high body temp, jitters, etc), docs have not put me on replacement. My TSH is extraordinarily high given my "normal" T3 and low normal T4 and since TSH doesn't mean squat, docs don't know exactly what to do with me. They keep leaning towards a pit tumor. One doc says its Graves Disease, another says Hashi's and another says both.

I made up the "typical" healthy thyroid scores. I've seen about 10,000 sets of labs over the years admin'ing these boards and have a decent grasp of what "normal" healthy-person labs should look like. The numbers are subjective of course but that's why the labs give reference ranges and each of my made up healthy numbers are within those ranges.


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

Well, yes your numbers are consistent with a pit tumor so, haven't they scanned you for one?

I'm sorry, but I'm leery of anecdotal evidence. The population you see on these boards is skewed away from the norm to start with, and "healthy" people rarely ever know their thyroid numbers.

Hyper/hypo a lot of the symptoms are the same. Have you ever tried block and replace to bring the T3 into line so you can fix the other numbers? Or just be done with it and ablate the thing (barring the pit tumor, of course)

Pardon the questions, I'm new here and don't know your history.


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## chopper (Mar 4, 2007)

Thyroidectomy is most likely in my future. It's been a very long time dealing with this. I have a script for an MRI. I just need to go get it done. Im going to use a 3T MRI this time. 3 or 4 years ago I had a 1.4 T MRI non-contrast and they could not see anything that looked like a tumor but the pictures were a bit weak.

If and when they can rule out pit tumor, the surgeon still wants me to quit chew (Skoal) before he'll do surgery. Im finding that to be much more difficult than I thought it would be.

Im a complicated case. I have a lot of numbers that are off - Very high Ferritin and B12. VERY low testosterone, FSH and LH, high ACTH, high Cortisol (sometimes). Im a walking contradiction but a lot of the stuff that's messed up originated in the pituitary. We'll see what happens.


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

Actually, low testosterone can be a consequence of the high iron, and liver problems can cause both the high B12 and high ferritin so, with the offbeat thyroid numbers, how are the liver enzymes, and just wondering, have you ever been tested for hemochromatosis?


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## chopper (Mar 4, 2007)

Liver enzymes are normal and TIBC was normal too so they discounted it. My ferritin was like 470 I think the last few times - in a rrange of up to 290 or so...something luike that. It was quite high but they felt other things were screwing that up. EVERYTHING in me is off and none of it makes sense.


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

Okay, that high a couple of times, maybe I go with the idea of "acute phase reaction" to some other problem.

High readings over a period of time seems to say, "test me for iron overload disorders".

It's always nice rule things out.


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## chopper (Mar 4, 2007)

Supposedley the only tests for iron overload are ferritin, TIBC and this hereditary gene test or something like that. My TIBC was perfectly normal though, meaning my capacity for iron binding and the percent bound was just fine so they sort of dismissed the high level and although it was high, it was not "crazy high" like you would see in most iron overload cases. I was at like 470 but people with iron overload could be in the 1200's...


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

I understand now.

And so, if you have the script, why haven't you had the MRI done? *nudge, nudge*


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## chopper (Mar 4, 2007)

lol....cause Im a 300 pound chicken. That's why. I HATE having to do anything related to doctors or thyroids. It just gets my nerves rattled. Would rather give myself a thyroidectomy than have to sit in a waiting room for 2 hours.


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

You must know my husband, who keeps asking me if I have made the appointment for his kidney ultrasound--to wit, I replied, "who's the grownup?"

Until the symptoms drive you to do it then........


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## chopper (Mar 4, 2007)

Absolutely. It's a guy thing. We are the fixers. I should know how to cure this problem but I don't and that is what drives me nuts. We're not good at going to others for help.


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## lavender (Jul 13, 2010)

I read your chart and honestly it made my head spin! I am not a numbers person. I am however intrigued by the way your brain is thinking about this. 
I just want to say that I am not a guy, but I am a social service worker by profession, trained to take care of others and fix their problems. I hate being sick and unable to fix myself. I have learned that I can not be there to help others unless I help myself first, and that often this involves doing what I can to follow up and reaching out to others. I hope this is not too preachy. 
Seriously, I just hope we can help you get over your mental blocks and go to get that MRI.


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