# Weird symptoms and lab results



## ams0509 (Sep 30, 2014)

Hello! This is my first time posting to this board. I have read several posts from others and I can see many of you probably answer the same questions over and over on lab results, so I appreciate anyone who is willing to take the time to read my situation and offer guidance to yet another newbie such as myself!

I am 36 yo female. I gave birth to my youngest 5 years ago. This is when I suspect my thyroid issues started, during pregnancy. It was not a fun pregnancy (as was my first child). I was constantly nauseated and in pain. The only way to take care of the nausea was to eat. And I had horrific mood swings. By the end of the pregnancy I gained 60 lbs.

I nursed him for 18 months, but he never slept through the night. After weaning, I headed back into the gym to lose the last of the baby weight. I spent the next 5 years trying to do this. Exercising up to 3 times a day, dieting, clean eating, I tried it all but still hung on to 15-20 extra pounds and had other hypo symptoms (hair loss, menstrual irregularities, brain fog, low body temps, zero sex drive). I had my TSH checked, and it came back as 2.2 (don't have range, sorry). Of course doc never checked anything else and said I was normal.

Fast forward a couple of years, nothing had changed so I met with an endo. I remember my TSH being lower than the first test, around 1.57. I remember thinking, "well, maybe my body has been healing over time". Again, this endo said my test results were fine and that I needed to slow down, I had too much on my plate.

That brings us to May 2014. Extra weight still on, but began having more stress in my life. I broke out in an awful rash that lasted 3 weeks ( I think this was shingles but it was not limited to one side of my body). I never had it looked at. July 3rd 2014, I started having pain in my joints, by late July I crashed hard.

In addition to the join pain, my finger joints started swelling. I had flu-like symptoms and low grade fevers at night. I was so exhausted I could hardly function. I was also extremely irritable and completely unmotivated to do anything. I had memory problems and dizzy spells too. This went on for weeks. I started herbal supplements to support the adrenals and thyroid but did not notice a big difference. Doctors ran CDC and RA panel. Everything was normal- no ANA antibodies.

I also had a metabolic panel done:

TSH -1.32 (4.5-4.5)

Free T4 1.12 (.82-1.77)

Because they said I was "normal" again, and still symptomatic, I decided to treat myself and began OTC adrenal glandular (bovine). I noticed improvement with the pain and swelling almost immediately and gradually the fevers went away. I still did not feel normal in terms of energy and exhaustion. I started ThryoGold and finally started to feel normal! I was energized, motivated, my mood was fantastic However, I had a second rash. This time it was much more inflamed but did not spread as widely. The doctor thought this was shingles. I started on Lysine and in 1 day the rash improved greatly. I decided to find someone to do a more comprehensive metabolic panel because I wanted to get to the bottom of all this.

This was done fasted, and I had been on ThyroGold for about 1.5 weeks but had not taken any in 2 days before the test.

TSH: .836 (.45-4.5)

Free T4: 1.2 (.82-1.77)

Free T3: 3.2 (2.0-4.4)

TPO: 17 (0-34)

Thyroglobulin <1.0 (0-.9)

Vitamin D: 172.8 (yes, that is correct) (30-100) I do heavily supplement with Vit D. 30-40K uis 2-3 times a week.

Total Cholesterol: 174 (100-199)

LDL: 95 (0-99)

HDL: 58 (>39)

Celiac Panel:

Immunoglobulin: 117 (91-414)

Everything else negative

Again, this clinic said I was &#8230;normal. I backed off the Thyrogold because I did not want to become dependent, and guess what, after a week off of it, I am exhausted again. So what do you think based on history of symptoms and lab results? Should I just continue the Thyrogold or keep searching for a physician to help me long term?

Thanks in advance everyone!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

TPO (antimicrosomal antibodies) TBII (thyrotropin-binding inhibitory immunoglobulin), Thyroglobulin and Thyroglobulin Ab, ANA (antinuclear antibodies), (thyroid hormone panel) TSH, Free T3, Free T4.

You can look this stuff up here and more.........
http://www.labtestsonline.org/
(Copy and paste into your browser)

Trab
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17684583
(Copy and paste into your browser)

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001594.htm

Wow! Welcome to the board!

Is that test for Thyroglobulin for Thyroglobulin or Thyroglobulin Ab? Also, TPO? Just TPO or TPO Ab?

Have you ever had a tick bite? Also, has your doctor checked you for Lupus? And too much Vitamin D could be causing some symptoms. Link above.

Free T3 is mid-line which for most of us would not be good enough.

It sounds very much like you may have a thyroid problem but only further testing plus an ultra-sound of your thyroid would prove that out/or not!

Info above.

Some antibodies are very elusive. They have a tendency to wax and wane. ANA is one, Lyme Ab is another and the test for Lupus which is Anti-dsDNA is another.


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## ams0509 (Sep 30, 2014)

Andros- thanks for the reply! The TPO was ab. The Thyroglobulin just says "Thyroglobulin, Antibody". I see based on you link that it means "TgAb"

I have not been checked for lyme, but I have not had any tick bites nor have I ever had the "bullseye" rash. I have also tested negative for Epstein-Barr(mono). White blood cell counts are normal, never indicating any kind of viral infection.

My RA panel results-

Uric acid, serum (for gout) 2.7 (2.5-7.1)

ANA direct (negative)

RA Latex Turbid. <10.0 (0.0-13.9)

Antistreptolysin O Ab: 122.3 (0.0-200)

C Reactive protein: 2.1 (0.0-4.9)

Sedimentation rate 2 (0-32)

With these results, I was told I did not have Lupus. Does a Anti-dsDNA need to be done, or was that covered in the results above?

I agree my free T3 is midline, but that was AFTER I started the Thyrogold (bovine glandular), it possible it could have been worse prior. I so WISH I had had it tested prior so i would have a baseline to measure. Also, my Free T4 was lower prior to taking the glandular as well.

I don't know what else to check? Are there specific tests I should request if i can find someone to order them? The only other thing I can think of is a candida infection. When I was pregnant with my youngest, at 9 weeks, I had to have an emergency appendectomy. The bombed me with antibiotics via IV and then had me continue to take them at home for 2 weeks afterwards. This probably destroyed all my good gut flora. My sugar cravings have been out of control these last few months but I had chalked it up to adrenal fatigue.

Also, one more thing to note...not sure if it is worth mentioning, but my oldest child (9 year old daughter) has congenital panhypopituitarism. We have to supplement her with growth hormone, levythoroxine, and oral hydrocortisol as her body does not have the pituitary function to signal those hormones. They have never found the cause, but they suspect a genetic link.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

tests for lupus
http://lupus.webmd.com/tc/antibody-tests-for-lupus-topic-overview
(Copy and paste into your browser)

Lupus symptoms
http://www.couldihavelupus.gov/symptoms.cfm
(Copy and paste into your browser)

Substances not found in normal serum (scroll down to autoantibodies)
http://www.thyroidmanager.org/chapter/evaluation-of-thyroid-function-in-health-and-disease/
(Copy and paste into your browser)

TPO Ab
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003556.htm

TPO Ab, negative is expected
http://www.medlabs.com.jo/docs/Leaflet-17.pdf

The healthy person should not have TPO Ab or Thyroglobulin Ab. They should have small amounts of TPO and Thyroglobulin, however.

And the only definitive test for Lupus is Anti-dsDNA and they usually run the Complementary C3 and C4 as well.


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## ams0509 (Sep 30, 2014)

Thank you Andros. I have an appointment Monday morning at the same clinic where all the further testing was done. The nurse practioner there is very helpful and willing to run just about any test that I ask for so I am hoping she will order the Anti-dsDNA and the Complementary C3 and C4. I am also going to ask her to test for Lyme disease as well. I need to be able to rule that out at least.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

> AFTER I started the Thyrogold (bovine glandular)


If you are on this then your FT-3 should be in 3/4 range at minimum - your FT-4 may not go that high due to this being a primarely T-3 medication.

You are hypo in my opinion - being in range does not mean you are not still hypo. Being in proper range of 3/4 FT-3 and at least 1/2 range on FT-4 with a bovine based replacement is more the goal of "normal range.

Are you cutting back on your D? I find if my D hits top range it causes alot of hyper symptoms.


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## ams0509 (Sep 30, 2014)

Lovlkn said:


> If you are on this then your FT-3 should be in 3/4 range at minimum - your FT-4 may not go that high due to this being a primarely T-3 medication.
> 
> You are hypo in my opinion - being in range does not mean you are not still hypo. Being in proper iange of 3/4 FT-3 and at least 1/2 range on a bovine based replacement is more the goal of "normal range).
> 
> Are you cutting back on your D? I find if my D hits top range it causes alot of hyper symptoms.


Thank you Lovlkn-

So a few questions...I had only be on the Thyrogold for about 1.5 weeks. Is that long enough to get a good read on what it may be doing to help my T3? If so, and it is still not in the best range, should I be on a synthetic? I have read that some do better on glandular and vice versa. Are there any drawbacks or concerns with the glandular? If my math is correct, FT3 should be 3.8?

I know the problem that so many folks are facing is that they have hypo symptoms and because the "normal" range is so vast, doctors are unwilling to treat if a patient is in that huge normal range. What is the best way to go about finding a doctor who will help treat to keep me at that upper end of optimal and monitor? Can a Dr. of Osteopathic medicine precribe synthetic T3?

I have not taken any Vit D since I received the results about a week and a half ago. I was told it needed to come down, but I don't know how long that would take? Maybe I should check on it have have that done on Monday as well.


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

Sorry for the hijack, Lovlkn, I was interested in your comment abt Vit D? Do you "just" feel hyper or do your frees also go up?

Asking because my free t4 has been stable at 1.8 for two years and now it's up to 2.7 (the upper limit of my range)...the only thing that's changed is I stared taking Vit D. I don't have any hyper symptoms.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

joplin1975 said:


> Sorry for the hijack, Lovlkn, I was interested in your comment abt Vit D? Do you "just" feel hyper or do your frees also go up?
> 
> Asking because my free t4 has been stable at 1.8 for two years and now it's up to 2.7 (the upper limit of my range)...the only thing that's changed is I stared taking Vit D. I don't have any hyper symptoms.


Hmmm, you bring a very interesting point. I just looked at my lab tracking and while my D was top range my Free's were is perfect range. Other than that 1 time I see absolutely no correlation. I've posted labs with medication ranges for you to look at.

When I reduced my D and my levels feel my Free's also fell. I;m going to study this when I have the time.

7/23/10 <.10 (.40-4) 1.57 (.89-1.76) 3.7 (2.0-4.4) 125mcg+62.5/12.25mcg Cytomel

Vit D 62.3 - will increase to 4K IU daily

1/31/11 <.0007) 1.4 (.8-1.77) 3.9 (2.0-4.4) 125mcg+12.5mcg Cytomel

T-4 8.2 (4.5-12)

8/1/11 <.0008) (.45-4.5) 1.4 (.82-1.77) 3.7 ((2.0-4.4) 125mcg +12.5mcg Cytomel

T-4 6.5 (4.5-12)

Vit D 92.9 - 5k IU daily

4/11/12 .006 (.40-4) 1.18 (.69-1.76) no ft-3 run 125mcg +12.5/.25mcg Cytomel

T-4 7.2 (4.5-12.5)

Vit D 60.9 - 5KIU 4x wk

10/11/12 .013 (.40-4.0) 1.19 (.69-1.76) 2.7 (2.0-4.4) 125mcg +12.5/.25mcg Cytomel

T-4 8.3 (4.5-12.5)

Vit D 63.5 - 5KIU 6x wk

8/27/13 .003 (.40-4.0) 1.45(.82-1.77) 3.9 (2.0-4.4) 125mcg +12.5/.25mcg Cytomel

T-4 6.7 (4.5-12.5)

Vit D 75.3 - 5KIU 6x wk

6/13/14 .024 (.40-4.0) 1.29(.82-1.77) 3 (2.0-4.4) 125mcg +12.5/.25mcg Cytomel

T-4 6.3 (4.5-12.5)

Vit D 52 - 5KIU 6x wk


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

Uh, interesting. Thanks for posting those numbers...I appreciate it!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Yep! And please keep us informed. We care............................a lot!


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## ams0509 (Sep 30, 2014)

Andros said:


> tests for lupus
> http://lupus.webmd.com/tc/antibody-tests-for-lupus-topic-overview
> (Copy and paste into your browser)
> 
> ...


Hi Andros- I am re-reading this post and I think I read it incorrectly the first time, thinking I was ok. My Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab is 17. The lab ref range is 0-34. *Does this mean I am in the normal range or does ANY number over 0 signify something abnormal??? I did a google search on this and all I find is conflicting information. I also purchased Dr K's book and it said if it is outside the ref range, it is abnormal??*

I went back to the clinic and the nurse said their labs could not test for Lymes or do any further thyroid or autoimmune testing. She recommended a good holistic doctor, but unfortunately the waiting list is 5 months!! So I don't know what else to do. I don't have the energy to "endo shop". I will start calling around tomorrow for more holistic doctors in the area I guess.


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## ams0509 (Sep 30, 2014)

Hello all- I have more lab work done since my last post. First I should note that I have tested negative for Lymes, so that is a positive.

I have some interesting results though and I was wondering if you could share your thoughts. My iron levels and B12 levels are high, but ferritin is low-normal. And if you remember, my Vit D levels were off the charts high over the summer. I stopped supplementing Vit D and it has come down to 80 (30-100).

B12 1460 (211-946)

Folate >19.9 (>3)

Ferritin 45 (15-150)

UIBC 103 (150-375)

TIBC 278 (250-450)

Iron- 175 (35-155)

Iron Saturation 63 (15-55)

Hemoglobin 13.9 (11.1-15.9)

I should note that I have not eaten red meat in over 20 years and only occasionally eat spinach and occasionally (1-2 month) take an iron supplement. I started taking liquid B12 just within the last couple of weeks.

Everything I read points to iron overload except the low-normal ferritin. This test was not fasted and I am wondering if that could give false results? I have read that iron overload can also cause some hypo symptoms that I have been having. Is anyone familiar with the MTHFR mutated gene and how this may be playing a part in these weird levels?

Here are my latest thyroid test results:

TSH 0.198 (.450-4.5)

FT3 2.8 (2.0-4.4)

FT4 1.08 (.82-1.77)

Reverse T3 10.8 (9.2-24.1)

The nurse said based on this that I am HYPERthyroid, but I feel hypo. I should note that I was taking Thyrogold and began to wean myself off before the tests. I had not taken any several days prior. I would have thought that it would have been enough time for my pituitary to produce more TSH and boost FT3 and FT4? Am I wrong?

Here are the antibody results:

TPO ab 20 (0-34) This was 17 last summer.

TSI 31 (0-139)

Thyrotropin Receptor AB <.51 (0-1.75)

Thyroglobulin AB <1.0 (0-.9)

RA panel- is there anything concerning here?

ANA = negative (no Lupus)

RA Latex turbid 12.2 (0-13.9) This was less than 10 last summer.

C reactive protein 3 (0-4.9) This was 2.1 last summer.

I should also note that after testing was done, I removed eggs and wheat from my diet. Also, a couple of weeks prior, I removed dairy and I have noticed quite a difference in energy and motivation levels. I don't quite feel 100% as I still have brain fog and slow recovery with increased activity, but good enough to make the dietary changes permanent.

Your thoughts are appreciated! The Dr wants to see me tomorrow to discuss my "HYPER" results.


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

To put it bluntly, the nurse is an idiot. You are not hyper, you are leaning more towards hypo, as evidenced by your low-ish Frees. You want your Free T3 in the upper part of the range and yours is close to dropping out of the bottom part of the range.


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## ams0509 (Sep 30, 2014)

I agree! And I feel they are basing this on TSH alone and to them, FT4 and FT3 are "normal" simply because they are in he outdated and inaccurate "normal" ranges.

With everything being low, does that seem like a pituitary issue? Or maybe I should wait and re-test again after more time has past from taking the Thyrogold?

I am beginning to wonder if the panhypopituitarism that my daughter is afflicted with and the low IGF my son has is all connected genetically with me.


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## thumper54 (Sep 2, 2013)

You have both kinds of antibodies present (TPO and TSI). A normal thyroid does not produce any of these. While your levels are not high enough to be recognized by many doctors as important, they can be causing the symptoms you have. They can cause a kind of tug of war of symptoms. And you have benefited from taking Thyrogold and then saw an increase of symptoms when you stopped it which would seem to me to indicate that you need thyroid support. Also, even after adding in the Thyrogold your FT3 and FT4 were not in optimal range yet. Have you had an ultrasound of your thyroid? As to the panhypopituitarism, have you had your pituitary checked? If they suspect a genetic link you would think they would want to rule you out.... I hope you get some good answers soon.


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## ams0509 (Sep 30, 2014)

Hello everyone...just wanted to give an update, and thank everyone again for all the responses. 

I was incorrect in my statement above about my Lymes test being negative. I tested positive for IgM bands 23 and 41, but no IgG bands. According to some very outdated CDC information, this did not constitute a positive result. When I went to see the family doctor, he explained that it was indeed positive and that I needed to start antibiotics right away, which I did. I have also started herbals and some heavy detoxing for my kidneys, liver and lymph system because my herx reactions (neurotoxins being released due the bacteria die-off) were unbearable.

I have started researching and found that Lymes can destroy the body's systems, including the endocrine system, so I attribute my adrenal fatigue and hypo symptoms to the Lyme. I found a Lyme specialist who treats both Lyme and hormone disruptions, but he is 3 hours away and has a long wait list. I left a message for his office, and I am waiting for a return call.

I had a lot of stress over the holidays, hosting dinners and family in town who brought the flu with them. It put my daughter in urgent care for IV fluids and IV meds due to her panhypopit and my son was sick with it as well but is able to handle it much better. Then yesterday, my son was also diagnosed with strep. I feel my poor body was just clinging to life! I have since made an effort to sleep as much as possible and I started taking Thyrogold again. Today is the first day in almost two weeks that I don't feel like death warmed over.

Thank you for all tour support. I just wanted to let everyone know that the mystery is solved, but I feel it is only half the battle. I fear I have had this bacteria for a while and I am worried I did not catch it soon enough to eradicate it completely and effectively. My earliest symptoms were summer of 2013 with severe night sweats, which at the time I thought were hormonal fluctuations. My husband reminded me, he had pulled a tick off my back earlier that spring 

If anyone has any experience with Lyme and has any suggestions for forum support groups, I would greatly appreciate it


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

I do have Lyme Disease and it can and does rebound. I just try to live the healthiest lifestyle that I can and NOW I do use OFF every time I go out.

Love being outdoors but never wanted to use the spray.

God bless and keep us in the loop. You surely had your hands full over the holidays.

Hugs,


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

There are several really good Lyme disease support groups on Facebook, if you're on that. You have to ask for membership, but they have a lot of good advice (I'm on one group for adrenal issues).


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## ams0509 (Sep 30, 2014)

Thank you Jenny V. Yes, I am on FB and I have found a few of the Lyme disease org pages. I also discovered a Lymes forum on Healingwell.com. Holy cow, lots of great info from folks on there! Everything from finding LLMDs, to antibiotics and herbal protocols, co-infections, and detoxing. Good stuff! Just wanted to share in case anyone who is reading may want to include in their research for suspected or confirmed Lymes


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