# Numbers not budging with med increases



## helpplease (Sep 27, 2013)

Hi everyone

I've been having issues for a long time (2 years now). I was on various levels of synthroid for about a year with lots of symptoms (at 100, 112, 125). Then I was on 150 synthroid, and things were actually going really well - I was cold, but that was about it. Then I was put on armour to try to warm me up, but I started having new symptoms on that, and my free T4 was floor low. Now we're trying a compounding pharmacy that makes a pill with the balance of T3/T4 that I need.

My issue is that we keep raising my medicine and my numbers aren't improving - in some instance, they're getting worse. On armour, my TSH was really low (0.07), my free T3 was high-normal, and my free T4 was low (11 something, reference range 12-20).

With the compounded med, I started at 150/20 (T4:53), then 160/25, then 180/25, and now am at 220/25.

On 160/25, my results were TSH 1.7, Free T3 4.3, Free T4 12.4

On 180/25, my results were TSH 2.6, Free T3 4.1, Free T4 12.1

I am so frustrated - the numbers got worse with a med increase! I still feel horrible - tired all the time, sexual symptoms (never an issue in the past on the synthroid, but now I'm having trouble having sex), etc.

Do you guys have any idea what's going on? I wish I could go back in time to when I was just on 150 Synthroid - I was cold all the time, but never any other symptoms. The fatigue and sexual issues started on the armour and have not gone away since. The fatigue is taking away my life, and the sexual symptoms make me feel like less of a man.

I am so miserable. Any help is appreciated greatly.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

Your wish is at your own command.

If you felt better on Synthroid and wish you could go back on it, then why not???

Tell your Doctor you feel better on Synthroid and want to go back on it.

Your Doctor should have no problem putting you back on it.

Most Doctors prefer it.


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## helpplease (Sep 27, 2013)

Hmm, good point! But given that I was at 150 of synthroid and now I'm at 220/25, will it have the same effect? I don't get why I felt so good on 150 but now I feel worse with more med.

Thanks.


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## helpplease (Sep 27, 2013)

I guess I'm worried that going back at this point (over a year later) will not produce the same results, because my body is now used to more. If I knew that going back on 150 synthroid would give me the same effect as before, I would absolutely do it - but I'm afraid it's just another change my body will have issues with.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

One medication is Synthetic and one natural.

Some people do better on one than the other.

You should feel lucky you have the option to try both.

Most Doctors don't want to even hear the word Armour or natural desiccated .

I myself have been taking Synthetic for more than a year and a half and have more symptoms now than I did before taking med's.

I can't get a Doctor to prescribe anything but synthetics.

They just say if I still have symptoms than it is something else and not my thyroid but they can not find anything else wrong.

If I was you I would go back to Synthroid.

I'd give my left arm to just have one symptom of being cold.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

helpplease said:


> I guess I'm worried that going back at this point (over a year later) will not produce the same results, because my body is now used to more. If I knew that going back on 150 synthroid would give me the same effect as before, I would absolutely do it - but I'm afraid it's just another change my body will have issues with.


The only way you will know is to try it.


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## helpplease (Sep 27, 2013)

creepingdeath said:


> One medication is Synthetic and one natural.
> 
> Some people do better on one than the other.
> 
> ...


I was the same as you... No symptoms before taking meds. My TSH was 6 something so the doctor told me to try synthroid. Worst decision I've ever made. 

Anyway, thanks for your advice.

ETA I had the same problem as you before I eventually found an integrative medicine clinic. I'm not sure if that's an option for you but it was the only place here that would even discuss armour.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

Wow,

No symptoms....

I guess you were following your Doctors advice.

Boy if I didn't have any symptoms I would have not taken any medication or even went to the Doctors.

I am always telling these Doctors that I could care less about lab work reference ranges.

All I care about it getting rid of these severe debilitating symptoms.

When I first went to the Doctors my TSH was like in the 30's.

My symptoms were more annoying than anything but after taking the Synthroid annoying has become painful and nightmarish.

Maybe your solution is to try stopping all thyroid med's and see what happens.

I would consult your Doctor before trying anything first.

just a suggestion......................


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

When taking Armour; the TSH is very low, FREE T4 is sort of low and most of us feel best w/FREE T3 in the upper range. I am conjecturing that because you are adding more T4 to the mix, it is making you ill.

Armour is the perfect 4 to 1 ratio.

You did not say how you felt on Armour , nor did you mention how much you were taking at the time or for how long. That would be interesting to know. You did state that you started having new symptoms and I wonder what those were as well.


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## helpplease (Sep 27, 2013)

I was on armour for maybe 6 months. That was when the fatigue and sexual problems started. Though I had a lot of symptoms on my lower doses on sythroid (namely tight muscles, strangling feeling in my neck, cold hands/feet, etc.), I never had fatigue nor sexual problems (not even close). When the fatigue was preventing me from living my life normally, I did another blood test, and that's when we found the TSH was very low, the free T3 was very high (at the high end of normal), and the free T4 was a bit low. There were other symptoms, too....hair loss, lingering tight muscles. That was when my doctor suggested we try a compounded medicine.

Maybe I was better off on synthroid. I just worry that if I try it again now, I'll find my body has completely forgotten how to convert to T3 normally. I know I said that already, but I just really want to stress it - every time I get a medication change and expect to feel better, I somehow come out worse.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Please Help

The best thing to do is request ( insist) on copies of all labs run.

Free t-4 and Free T-3 along with antibodies are what we are interested in seeing. Antibodies are called TPO or TSI. Thyroglobulin is also very important.

Has anybody performed a ultrasound of your thyroid?

Please post ranges.


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## helpplease (Sep 27, 2013)

I've only had TSH, Free T3, and Free T4 run. The Frees finally came over a year after the problems started - most doctors here would insist on only doing the TSH. My TSH was always high normal, but no one would give me more med because it was in the normal range. For example, it was 4 and the reference range was something like 0.3 to 4.3 at that doctor's office. Unfortunately I don't have exact results, but I can outline what I've gotten so far roughly based on my memory:

Just synthroid, but too low of a dose:

TSH consistently between 3 and 4. I finally got a Free T3 done as well and it was high 3s (normal being 3-7).

Synthroid, 150 - never tested, unfortunately. I started seeing the integrative health doctor right before going away, so we were cautious about switching meds. Instead, he upped the synthroid from 112 to 150 and said we would try armour when I got back. So the synthroid 150 went well, but I expected armour to do better, so I didn't ask him for another test - we just switched to armour on my next visit.

Armour - TSH .04, Free T3 high 5s, Free T4 11 something (normal for T4 was 12-20)

Compounded med - TSH keeps going up (to .69, then 1 something, now 2 something), Free T3 consistently around 4, Free T4 consistently around 12

I've had two ultrasounds done. They said I had thyroiditis but no nodules or anything.

Hopefully this makes more sense to someone. I don't get it at all.


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## helpplease (Sep 27, 2013)

I should add that I never got all that high with the armour. When I got to about 3 grains I started having fast heart beats and other hyper symptoms. On the last test my free T3 was OVER the normal limit (I think it was around 10, but I could be mistaken). It was after that that we started trying compounded meds.

ETA that I don't think it'll even be possible to get the antibodies done here. Even to get the Frees I'm paying to get them done privately each time and it is horribly expensive. The doctor I'm seeing now was reluctant to even get the Free T4 done and he's been BY FAR the best I've found where I live. Literally no one else I have come across has cared about anything but the TSH, and they all refused to do anything when the TSH was high normal... I probably saw 10 different doctors (one endo, family doctor, walk in clinics, one cardiologist - I would ask anyone just because I was getting so desperate).


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Therein lies the problem. 3 grains is much much too much for only 6 months. Entirely inappropriate. The patient is to start on 1/2 grain and be titrated upward by 1/4 grain every 8 weeks until the patient feels well and the FT3 is where it should be.

You do the math. It takes a while to get to 3 grains and that is only if your lab results suggest you need that much.

I am sorry that happened to you. Quite frankly, your doctor should not have allowed that.

Let us know how this all pans out.


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## helpplease (Sep 27, 2013)

Thank you! I knew something wasn't working, but I didn't know what.

When someone goes too fast with the armour, can they have BOTH hypo and hyper symptoms, though? Does it make sense that the overheating and fast heart beat started even though some of my hypo symptoms (loss of sex drive, fatigue, thin hair, muscle tightness) hadn't cleared up?


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Yes; your whole system goes bonkers as it cannot adjust and assimilate that fast.

Hope you get this all straightened out one way or the other and we will be here to help however we can.

You deserve to feel good; you deserve to have your life back!


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## helpplease (Sep 27, 2013)

Thank you so much for your help. It is so frustrating to wait 2 months to see the doctor every time it's not working. This board has given me more information in less than 24 hours! Looks like it's time to try the armour again - slowly but surely.


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

Out of curiosity, have you also had your testosterone level checked? We see many men here who have issues with thyroid as well as testosterone. Just thought I'd mention it.


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## helpplease (Sep 27, 2013)

I haven't had it checked since the fatigue started. I think I will get it done next time - thanks for the suggestion.


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## helpplease (Sep 27, 2013)

I will say I am scared to fiddle with another hormone, though! Hopefully testosterone is more straight forward than thyroid hormones (if I have an issue).


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Fiddle on one fiddle at a time. "Sometimes" the other hormones fall back into place. If one hormone is out of whack (in this case, the thyroid); others soon follow suit. This is true with Ferritin and Vitamin D as well.

Humble advice!


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## helpplease (Sep 27, 2013)

Yeah, my Vit D was low on the low dose of Synthroid, so the doctor told me to take Vitamin D pills. I never thought about that - maybe it was a result of my thyroid being low.

Sorry to keep going with the questions, but I'm going to do this tomorrow, and I want to do it right - on STTM it says to start at 1 tab, but you said 1/2. Is a 1/2 safer? I'm a big guy (almost 200 pounds, athletic), and I've been taking 220:25 (T4:T3). I don't want to overdo it like last time, but I'm also afraid of being non functional - neither option is sounding so good.


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