# Euthyroid Hashimoto's with symptoms



## aa1991aa (Mar 11, 2016)

Hey everyone , I am a 24 yr Male

About 1 year ago I used GROWTH HORMONE SUPPORT + DEER ANTLER VELVET + TESTOSTERONE BOOSTER and since then I started having symptomes ...

Well after many times going to doctor , I reallized my thyroid is overactive ( hyperthyroidism ) . My endocrinologist found some nodules and he said it's just an inflammation ( He didn't mention anything about Hashimoto's ) . here is my very first blood test as of 6/26/15 :

MY RESULTS . REFERENCE RANGE

T4 : 12 5 - 12.5

T3 uptake : 43.5% 22.5 - 37

Free thyroxine index : 5.2 1 - 3.9

TSH : < 0.008 0.350 - 4.5

Bilirubin total : 1.4 0.2 - 1.2

Thyroglobulin antibodies : 7 < or = 1

Vitamin D 25-OH - total : 29 30 - 100

After being on medication for 4 weeks , my thyroid levels came back to normal aroung August but my symptoms wasn't completely gone !

Long story short , it was around November I had a bad panic attack which made me thinking that what is wrong with me !

I found a good naturopathic doctor and he explained me everything . He said I have Hashimoto's and he said he is able to help me to feel like my old self again !

Here is my latest lab results as of 1/9/2016 :

TSH : 2.570 range : 0.450 - 4.500

Triiodothyronine free , serum ( free t3 ) : 3.2 range : 2.0 - 4.4
T4 free 1.15 range : 0.82 - 1.77
Thyroid peroxidase ( tpo ) : 7 range : 0 - 34
Thyroglobulin antibody : 5.9 range : 0.0 - 0.9
Vitamin D : 30.8 range : 30.0 - 100.0

I know there is no cure for Hashimoto's but when I compare my results with others , I see my antibodies are very low ( it's obviously those growth hormon supplements that caused an inflammation ) . It might not even be Hashimoto's !

Do yall think my doctor lied to me that he can cure me ? Do you think such a low antibodies can cause symptoms ?

I'm on a gluten free diet and some supplements to balance my immune system . He said it'll take at least 3 months to see results , It's been 2 months of my treatment and I still have symptoms

Is there any hope that I can be like my old self again ? I'm so tired of this :sad0047:

Any idea appreciated


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

Hi & welcome.

Could you tell us what medication you were on? And for how long we you on it before you had the second set of labs?


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## WhatHappened (Nov 12, 2015)

Hello!

In reading your post, not to be picky, did the NP say he could cure you or make you feel like your old self again? Those are two very different things. It makes all the difference before we say the Dr. was telling fibs!


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## aa1991aa (Mar 11, 2016)

joplin1975 said:


> Hi & welcome.
> 
> Could you tell us what medication you were on? And for how long we you on it before you had the second set of labs?


Well if you mean thyroid medications , first I started with Methimazole and after 2 weeks I started getting rash so Dr. switched me to PTU , I used another 2 weeks of PTU ( total of 4 weeks ) and then I went Hypo ! then after about 1 month my thyroid levels came back to normal without any medication !

( I had several blood tests , I wrote the first and last one only )

The point is I'm euthyroid since August 2015 , but still have symptoms ( I have elevated antibodies )


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## aa1991aa (Mar 11, 2016)

WhatHappened said:


> Hello!
> 
> In reading your post, not to be picky, did the NP say he could cure you or make you feel like your old self again? Those are two very different things. It makes all the difference before we say the Dr. was telling fibs!


Well he didn't use the word "CURE"


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## BurntMarshmallow (Feb 26, 2016)

What symptoms do you have?

I think it's really common for someone to still have symptoms for a while after their numbers (TSH, FT4, FT3, etc) go back into the normal range. When you are hyperthyroid for a period of time, your metabolism is going faster, and as a result, you use up a lot of your body's stores of vitamins and enzymes. Thiamine is a good example of this. The body only has about 30 to 50mg, which can last about twenty days normally. But when your metabolism is in overdrive, as with hyperthyroidism, you use up your thiamine stores very quickly. Without thiamine, you cannot make TPP, which you need to metabolize glucose. TPP is required for the Kreb's cycle, which is how the body makes ATP, the energy required for basically all the functions of the body. This is one reason avoiding sugar is really important - consuming a lot of sugar uses up thiamine, which is already in short supply.

When you are hypothyroid for a time, you lose the ability to absorb and metabolize nutrients like B12 and riboflavin. You also do not convert beta-carotene to vitamin A. Without riboflavin you cannot make the enzyme you need to absorb folic acid. Without vitamin A, you can't do a million different things, including properly making blood cells. Then anemia can follow. These are just a few common nutrient examples, but there are so many more. Every function of your body depends on a long chain of events, and if any one of the steps doesn't work, the whole thing can fall apart.

This is one reason it's very difficult to recover from a thyroid disorder, and so many people still have symptoms even after taking meds and having proper numbers on blood tests. T3 and T4 are only one piece of the puzzle. T3, the active hormone, is really only a message telling cells to do work. But the actual work cells need to do requires nutrients. Without these supplies and fuel, cells can't do what thyroid hormones are telling them to do.

Now that you're euthyroid, at least according to TSH, it will take time to build back up those stores, which are mainly in the liver, but also in the muscles, bones, kidneys, blood... and every cell. It would help to supplement, if you're not already, to make sure your body has everything it needs. But it will also take time for your body to rebuild the missing parts of this complex system, no matter what you do. :/

And whatever you do, do not drink alcohol during this recovery time! This one comes from personal experience.


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## aa1991aa (Mar 11, 2016)

BurntMarshmallow said:


> What symptoms do you have?
> 
> I think it's really common for someone to still have symptoms for a while after their numbers (TSH, FT4, FT3, etc) go back into the normal range. When you are hyperthyroid for a period of time, your metabolism is going faster, and as a result, you use up a lot of your body's stores of vitamins and enzymes. Thiamine is a good example of this. The body only has about 30 to 50mg, which can last about twenty days normally. But when your metabolism is in overdrive, as with hyperthyroidism, you use up your thiamine stores very quickly. Without thiamine, you cannot make TPP, which you need to metabolize glucose. TPP is required for the Kreb's cycle, which is how the body makes ATP, the energy required for basically all the functions of the body.  This is one reason avoiding sugar is really important - consuming a lot of sugar uses up thiamine, which is already in short supply.
> 
> ...


Useful info thank you .

I've checked my iron levels are fine , B12 is fine , actually there was nothing my doctor can find ! everything seems ok except vitamin D , which I'm supplementing now .

My symptoms are completely random and out of nowhere ! some days I feel good , some days I have little symptoms and sometimes I feel like I'm fainting

I have anxiety , low libido , fatigue , sometimes interrupted sleep and a lot more . symptoms are completely random and happens at different times and different intensity .

I had a couple tests done last week and I'm still waiting for my doctor to call me . I had a blood test to check my antibodies after 2-3 months of hard diet , I had a urine test to check my neurotransmitters in my brain and a saliva test to check my stress levels , I'm curiously waiting for my results .


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## BurntMarshmallow (Feb 26, 2016)

aa1991aa said:


> Useful info thank you .
> 
> I've checked my iron levels are fine , B12 is fine , actually there was nothing my doctor can find ! everything seems ok except vitamin D , which I'm supplementing now .
> 
> ...


Blood tests for some nutrients aren't reliable. For example, the B12 blood test they use measures B12 in your serum, not in your liver where you store it. The body keeps very good control over the levels of B12 in the blood, and therefore a deficiency won't show up in the blood until it is severe. The liver can store up to seven years of B12. By the time the blood test for B12 comes back low, you could have permanent nerve damage from low B12.

Certain vitamins that are important to supplement if you have a thyroid issue, and B12 is definitely on the list. You simply do not metabolize it from food when you have a thyroid issue, so you need to supplement. It's so hard to absorb B12 that HUGE doses are required in supplements so that a tiny fraction will be absorbed by "passive diffusion" in the intestine.

Most of the B-vitamins are all very safe in large doses well above the RDA (except for B6). Some research on Hashimoto's patients in particular have shown benefit from very large doses daily of thiamine. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24351023

I'm not sure what supplements you're currently taking but various supplements can really affect your blood sugar and cortisol levels. Or it could be your thyroid and adrenals causing the random symptoms. If you are taking a lot of supplements, be careful to time them with food and take them at the right time of day. Otherwise you'll get some of the random symptoms you describe.

I suggest you buy vitamins individually, so you have control over dosing and when you take them. A multivitamin takes away all your control. Even the b-vitamins are better taken individually. Most of the B-complex have too little of some, and too much of others, like B6 which over time can be dangerous. B6 is easily absorbed even with a thyroid issue, but other b-vitamins are less well absorbed. You end up with too much B6 in the blood, not enough B2 which you need to convert B6 into cofactors and enzymes. This can lead to B6 toxicity in the long term.

You want at least 300mg a day of B1 - thiamine for fatigue related to Hashi's. There is a good time release tablet by Nature's Plus. Same for B2 - if your pee isn't neon yellow every time you go, take more B2 - Riboflavin. You cannot overdose on B1 and B2.

You probably have some disruption with your adrenal glands, most folks with thyroid issues do. You need B2 and B5 (Pantothenic Acid) mainly for the adrenals. Try to get at least 100mg of B5 a day, spread out. Invest in a pill cutter so you can split your doses. You'll notice B5 really helps stabilize your blood sugar and appetite.

For sleep issues and low libido, take 30mg of zinc before bed, with a bite of food so it doesn't upset your stomach. Zinc is important for testosterone and is a known factor in sex drive for both men and women. Check your other vitamins though and make sure you're not getting zinc in those too. Too much zinc daily will disrupt the balance of other minerals. You don't want more than 50mg a day, depending on your weight. (If you're already getting a bunch of zinc and have been for a while, then there is something else causing your sleep issues and low libido.) Zinc has been shown to lower cortisol for about 4 hours after you take it, so you really don't want to take zinc until the evening. Cortisol has a natural circadian rhythm that goes up in the morning and down at night.

Since your vitamin D is low, it probably means your magnesium is low. Most of the population has a magnesium deficiency anyway. You need magnesium to absorb vitamin D. Not all magnesium supplements are created equal. Get a good quality supplement or else you won't absorb it. I like "Doctor's Best". http://www.livestrong.com/article/387358-vitamin-d-magnesium-interaction/

Don't drink tea, which contains a lot of fluoride. Herbal tea is fine, but avoid green and black tea. Fluoride interferes with the pituitary, thyroid and pineal gland. The pineal gland is what makes melatonin and helps you sleep. If you can, avoid fluoridated water, but I realize this is pretty hard and maybe expensive.

There are no reliable blood tests for a lot of vitamins. Vitamin A is one of them. Thyroid issues can deplete this vitamin. If you have any night vision issues, you are likely deficient. Try taking retinal palmitate (vitamin A) and see how you feel. Or try eating some beef liver, which is very high in vitamin A and a lot of B vitamins as well. I felt like a super hero for three days after eating 6oz of beef liver. And this is because vitamin A is needed to convert T4 to T3. If you try it and feel nothing, then you are probably sufficient in vitamin A.

I know this is a lot of info. I have be researching this stuff for the past year like a crazy obsessed person, and started out doing the normal multi-vitamin, listen to my doctor's advice, route with no luck. I never planned to have an entire cabinet of individual vitamins, but it turns out that is where I ended up and it would have been a lot cheaper if I'd just done that to begin with.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Have you had an ultrasound of your thyroid?


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## aa1991aa (Mar 11, 2016)

BurntMarshmallow said:


> Blood tests for some nutrients aren't reliable. For example, the B12 blood test they use measures B12 in your serum, not in your liver where you store it. The body keeps very good control over the levels of B12 in the blood, and therefore a deficiency won't show up in the blood until it is severe. The liver can store up to seven years of B12. By the time the blood test for B12 comes back low, you could have permanent nerve damage from low B12.
> 
> Certain vitamins that are important to supplement if you have a thyroid issue, and B12 is definitely on the list. You simply do not metabolize it from food when you have a thyroid issue, so you need to supplement. It's so hard to absorb B12 that HUGE doses are required in supplements so that a tiny fraction will be absorbed by "passive diffusion" in the intestine.
> 
> ...


Sorry for my late reply

Wow , A lot of good info ...

BTW I still have symptoms  and even my doctor's giving up !

Here are some stuff I've tried so far :

supplemented with vitamin B-12 and B-6 and B-complex

I even had a B-12 B-complex shot

taking sereni-pro to support my adrenals

I tried some herbal teas like passionflower tea

diet

supplementing with magnesium and magnesium L-threonate

supplementing with probiotics

a couple of herbs for anxiety like saffron ...

But nothing reduced my anxiety !

I had a urine test for HPA axis and here is the results :

Serotonin 111.1 range : 200-415
GABA 148.8 range : 600 - 1100
Dopamine 120.8 range : 250 - 400
Nor-epinephrine 24.5 range : 30 - 50
Epinephrine 8.8 range : 10 - 15
Glutamate : 11.1 range : 5 - 10

I know ! I've heard that urine tests are not accurate and they don't even measure the brain neurotransmitters directly , they measure the neurotransmitters in the body like livers and etc... but my doctor said it is still helpful and this test has helped him to treat many patients during his 30 years experience !

He put me on some supplements for brain like 5htp to boost the serotonin and GABA but I felt even worse when I used those supplements !

I don't know how much more should I wait to feel like my old self again ! 

my doctor was suspicious to Heavy metal toxicity so I had the test done and waiting for the results

Again thank you for sharing your experience . A lot of helpful information !


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## aa1991aa (Mar 11, 2016)

Lovlkn said:


> Have you had an ultrasound of your thyroid?


Yes , I had ! it was around May or June 2015 , and that's how my doctor found out I had nodules !


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

As far as the nodules - do you have the ultrasound report that shows their size and texture?

If you have nodules - you can have fluxuation in your thyroid levels and therefore how you feel.

Your D is in the basement - that could cause fatigue.



> About 1 year ago I used GROWTH HORMONE SUPPORT + DEER ANTLER VELVET + TESTOSTERONE BOOSTER and since then I started having symptomes ...


Did you self medicate with these items?


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## aa1991aa (Mar 11, 2016)

Lovlkn said:


> As far as the nodules - do you have the ultrasound report that shows their size and texture?
> 
> If you have nodules - you can have fluxuation in your thyroid levels and therefore how you feel.
> 
> ...


I am euthyroid now and all my thyroid levels came back to normal so I guess there is no more nodules ( as my doctor said it was just a small inflammation )

Even my antibodies are in normal range right now and I have been supplementing with vitamin D ( 5000 IU ) for about 6 months now so by now it should be normal too !

And YES ! That was the mistake I made ! next time I see GNC , I start running !

I read somewhere that GH supplements can mess with your brain chemistry , maybe it's all in my head ! BTW my NP was suspicious to heavy metals and I had the test done , waiting for the results ...


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