# 43 year old male with Hashi's...lower medication?



## superakcraig (May 2, 2013)

Hello Fellow Suffers,

I have a question based on your experiences. First a little background:

I have been a hashi's suffer for a little over two years. I have changed medications several times with hopes of making me feel better. Back in Novemeber, as a recommendation from my internal doctor, I decided to drop gluten. I also decided to drop the artificial sweetners and cut back on my caffenine intake. I can tell you that I feel much better since I did this. Many of my symptoms have gone away or at least eased some.

A symptom that still seems to creep in from time to time are headaches. They are dull headaches that occur in no particular place on my head and sometimes just more annoying than anything. Sometimes they come on without any notice like a "stab" of pain and then slowly subside after a few minutes (or hours). Sometimes I wake up with them and it will take all day for them to disappear.

Another symptom I have are minor anxiety attacks when I think about something that might be unpleasent or something I don't wanna do (leading a work meeting, going somewhere I have never been).

The question that I ask is this: I have been on 125mcg of Synthroid (was on Tirosent for about six months but was same dosage) for well over a year and a half. All this time I have suffered with these headaches that just seem to ruin my whole day and my mood. *Has anyone experienced having their dosage dropped a little bit as I wonder if I am over medicated thus the reason I have these headaches and anxiety from time to time? I am thinking about dropping from 125mcg to maybe 112mcg?*

My latest numbers are as follows:

TSH .493 .450-4.5

FT4 1.55 .82-1.77

FT3 3.8 2.0-4.4

RT3 11.8 9.2-24.1

TPO 58 0-34

Thank you all for your time!!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Hi there and welcome!

Actually, your labs look good. You have some wiggle room to get that FT3 just a bit higher if you would like to do so. It's just a tad over the mid-range of 3.2 which for most of us would be a bit low.

Here's the caveat; there are many things that can cause headaches and anxiety. One would be undermedicated, another the eyes, polymyalgia arteritis (autoimmune), low testosterone, low ferritin and a bunch of other things. That said, I do hope you will talk to your doc about the headaches.

Also, if you gave up caffeine, that could be the cause as caffeine does dilate the blood vessels allowing blood to flow more freely.

Can you pinpoint when the headaches started?


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## superakcraig (May 2, 2013)

Thanks for your response Andros. To answer your question, no i can't really pinpoint when they actually start. Sometimes I will wake up with one, sometimes I will go to sleep with one. And then sometimes one hits me in the middle of the day. I can't seem to pointpoint a certain time.

With regards to the ferritin and the testosterone, at the same time the numbers above were checked so were these:

Ferritin 127 30 - 400

Testosterone 655.2 348 - 1197

One thing my labs did point out was my prolactin levels were elevated but based on what I read online, that is common with Hashis.

Prolactin 19.7 4.0 - 15.2

She claimed my DHEA was a little lower than it should even though it was "within range"

DHEA 124.4 102.6 - 416.3 (she said it should be over 150)

And one last thing, my cortisol AM levels were a little high

Cortisol 21.6 6.2 - 19.4 (I have been taking a natual supplement called Cortisol Manager that helps me fall to sleep better as that HAD been an issue)

So I'm wondering if maybe they are just stress related tension headaches.


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

What part of the country do you live in and have you ever been tested for allergies? I live in Texas and we are having crazy temperature swings lately, so I pretty much have year round allergies now and headaches are part of it. Sometimes the headache will come on during the day or sometimes I'll wake up with it, and it's in different areas of my head every time. I've read Hashi's can exacerbate your allergies, too, so it might be something to consider.


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## superakcraig (May 2, 2013)

jenny v said:


> What part of the country do you live in and have you ever been tested for allergies? I live in Texas and we are having crazy temperature swings lately, so I pretty much have year round allergies now and headaches are part of it. Sometimes the headache will come on during the day or sometimes I'll wake up with it, and it's in different areas of my head every time. I've read Hashi's can exacerbate your allergies, too, so it might be something to consider.


Well i do live in the "ohio valley" which is nortorious for allergies. If the allergies are indeed the case, it could be something new as I was tested for allergies a while back and was only allergic to tree pollen and there certainly isn't any of that right now.


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## CA-Lynn (Apr 29, 2010)

Higher than normal Prolactin levels are often found in anyone taking anti-depressants.


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## superakcraig (May 2, 2013)

CA-Lynn said:


> Higher than normal Prolactin levels are often found in anyone taking anti-depressants.


It's funny you mention that Lynn as I WAS taking imipramine up to about 7 days before that last blood work so maybe that's the cause of it. I was taking the imipramine for headaches and it DID seem to help some but I was tired of using the imipramine as a way of masking my headaches.


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## superakcraig (May 2, 2013)

Labs from 2-8-2014

TSH .798 .450-4.5

FT4 1.68 .82-1.77

FT3 3 2.0-4.4

RT3 15.8 9.2-24.1

TPO 49 0-34 (last time was 58...which i think is a major improvement...hoping its because of the gluten free)

The one other symptom along with the anxiety and the headaches, that I did not mention before is my cold hands and feet.

So after doing a little more research and talking to my doctor, we decided to actually increase my dosage just by a small bit. My doctor is a functional medical doctor meaning they might prescribe a natural medicine (supplement) if possible so she said she wanted to *add 15mg of Armour to my 125mcg of Synthroid* so I am all for it as I have read of many folks taking combinations and having good success. She also said to try the 15 for a few weeks and if i don't see any improvement add another 15 until we hit the right mark.

So after all this, I am hopeful that i can get these few remaining symptoms under control.

Has anyone on here taken Synthroid and Armour at the same time and what type of results did you get?


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## Airmid (Apr 24, 2013)

Why does she want to add Armour and not synthetic T3 as you are already taking a T4 medication?

Thyroid suppression in Hashi patients is a lot different then hyper so keep that in mind. TSH isn't a good indicator of going hyper in these situations - it's the levels of T3/T4 that matter and you're still well within range of normal here. You could go a little higher on the T3 but again with what you're on a synthetic T3 might be a much better option then adding something with more T4 along with T3.

While you have given up caffeine, I can tell you as a migraine sufferer it really helps with headaches. It might be well worth your while that when one of these hits to try a little bit of caffeine to see if it goes away or at least goes away somewhat.

What's your blood pressure? Cold hands and feet can be caused just by low natural blood pressure. My normal is 94/60 and my hands and feet often get cold, especially if it drops.


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## superakcraig (May 2, 2013)

Thanks for the reply Airmid. What she is trying to do is treat the symptoms NOT treat the lab numbers so I am not sure why you had to explain TSH. As I mentioned before, anxiety, cold hands and feet and headaches are symptoms that are still haunting me.

My blood pressure is never low, if anything its usually a bit high for example at the office the other day when the assistant took it, my BP was 160/65. That 160 is higher than it had ever been before. Normally its around 135/75 or somewhere around that.

So now I have two questions...the first and still remains from above: *Has anyone on here taken Synthroid and Armour at the same time and what type of results did you get?*

*AND*

*Is it possible that Armour is already effecting me after just the first day (even though im on day 3 now) of taking it? It's hard to explain but it just feel "weird".*


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## Airmid (Apr 24, 2013)

You were looking at dropping your thyroid medication which is why I mentioned that since your TSH is low. Instead you are on more medication now.

Armour can make you feel weird even on the first day. T3 works a lot differently then T4 and has a much shorter half life. It is quite common to have some off feelings when starting a therapy that includes T3. Plus you are adding even more T4 which will push up the T3 more. If you are concerned call your doctor and request labs to make sure your T3 isn't wandering off into the high range.

I am fully aware of what treating symptoms not labs is and I also think it's not the best idea at times. Of course just treating on TSH isn't always the best plan and can lead to issues in patients who don't have nearly enough T3/T4 with normal TSH but at the same time that doesn't mean just relying on symptoms. Especially if one isn't sure if the symptoms in question are from thyroid issues or something else. My concern does still stand, I don't understand why the Synthroid wasn't just boosted up a bit (and trust me you have a long ways to go before you ever catch my dose so it's not like you were maxed out on it) as it obviously was working. Why not something like 133 mcg or 150? Why add the Armour at all when you are obviously getting T3 from your body converting properly. If she was worried about T3 on Synthroid, well that's why Cytomel exists, it's a T3 only medication without the added issues of more T4.

Are they going to follow up with why your cortisol was high? Both anxiety and headaches can correspond to adrenal issues.


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## superakcraig (May 2, 2013)

You are correct I was looking at dropping my meds but at the last minute after discussing it with my doctor I decided that perhaps I needed to raise them for my cold hands and anxiety. And at this point I wished I had not. She prescribed Armour because of it being "natural" and because it "had t3 and t4 in it".

The very day I started with the addition of the armour, more frequent headaches started. As the days went on (4), it hurt more and more until finally last night, I said "no more" as the frequent anxiety was also back. It is hard to believe that only adding 15mg of Armour would make that much of a difference in me.

So now, I'm not sure what to do. I am now wondering if I really should have come down. I just keep thinking about my cold hands and feet and wondering if that it really a hypo symptom or not. Strangely, I have read my symptoms can go either way (hypo or hyper).

She did put me on a weekly 50000IU Vitamin D as mine was 46 and she said it needed to be higher. I have read that vitamin d deficiency can cause headaches and cold hands and feet so I am hopeful that this can help.


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## Airmid (Apr 24, 2013)

You are American, correct? The reason why I ask is that if so, 46 is not low on vitamin D. In fact new studies have shown that people are just fine with lower vitamin D levels anyways depending on where they live. I do have a pet peeve with vitamin D as it seems to get blamed for everything. Not saying that the massive amount you're taking weekly is going to hurt you or anything, just that it may not be the answer here.

I would call your doctor at this point and ask for labs to see what is going on. T3 can definitely do some nifty things and unlike T4 it acts immediately and has a half life of around 8 hours. So it very well could cause an exacerbation of symptoms if they were connected to the T3. I'm taking it that you have stopped the Armour? Hopefully things will return to some kind of baseline for you right now.

Meanwhile, have you tried caffeine at all for the headaches? I get two kinds, migraines and regular headaches (most likely due to my parathyroid issues) and it helps for both way better then any drug. You don't have to drink tons either. I mean, yeah for my migraines I drink coffee black as sludge but regular ones I drink a tea with only around 20 mg of caffeine in it. I don't tend to take in caffeine outside of my headaches either. It really might be something to try until you get things straightened out.

Do you have a way to check you blood pressure at home? Just a thought but changes in blood pressure can cause headaches, especially if you go high. Thyroid issues can make this happen and it might be one of the causes of your headaches. Shot in the dark really but seeing how high your BP can get when stressed I'm wondering if that's a contributing factor.


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## superakcraig (May 2, 2013)

I am American...you are correct.

Yes I have stopped the armour. The headaches have lessened but its just the second day of me not taking it, after taking it for 4 days and I am still having "spikes" of pain.

Regarding the caffeine, I have been drinking 2 cups of coffee a day in the morning and usually have koolaid the rest of the day just so I don't have to drink water.

I do have a home blood pressure monitor and it usually measures a bit high usually from 120-145 over 70-85....it varies.


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