# newbie with all kinds of questions



## mccreel (Apr 13, 2010)

Hello, I recently found out I have a low thyroid function, beginning levels of low, but low just the same. And I have a few questions. A little background first. 
I was diagnosed with endometriosis back in 2007, had a complete hysterectomy, (endo so bad uterus was stuck to stomach wall). It took 2 1/2 years to get my meds right as far as hormones go from that surgery. I had to go back in after the original surgery 3 more times to remove reoccurring endo and also for a bladder prolapsed to be fixed. Due to some major menopause issues,(hot flashes, NO sleeping at all, etc) I was put on low dose estrogen. Ended up having an allergic reaction to all the different types I was tried on. Got tested and found out I was estrogen dominant so I guess my body was telling me I did not need it. Have just recently been put on testosterone injections and that has helped a lot in many areas. Found out my b12 was low and have been put on b12 shots as well. I have been on the b12 shots for 6 month's but are still feeling so tired. 
I had been doing good after the surgeries, lost weight I had gained from being laid up after the surgeries, but in the last 8 month's I have:
gained 15lbs, even with more exercising and watching what I eat. Have no energy, no matter how long I sleep, I get exhausted in no time and feel like I have hardly slept at all, have a brain cloud all the time, I have also been keeping colds and illnesses longer and having to go through 2 rounds of antibiotics to get rid of it. I don't know if that has anything to do with thyroid but that has changed recently as well. I can't get motivated to do the things that I even love to do, skin's gotten dry, never been able to keep fingernails, have always split, swelling all the time, so bad sometimes I can not fit into any of my clothes and I am taking dyazide (a diuretic), everyday for the swelling and I still swell every day, twitchy herky jerky legs, dizziness, and I have had migraines since the 5th grade. Just all over feeling yuck.
I saw a Dr. a few days ago and he checked a few basic. I have to get a copy of the tests because I don't remember exactly all he tested but I think it was just 1 of the T4, no T3, the TSH and a couple of more things. he said my levels were low but at the upper levels of low. All my life I have been super sensitive to things. Like 1 over the counter Actifed will knock me out for 12 hours, the topomax I am on for migraines took me 6 month's to get to my dosage when it usually takes 1 month for everyone else, I am also hypoglycemic but my Dr. said I start having symptoms in the low normal range, because I had passed out before and my sugar was 60. I took it when I started shaking and heading that way again and it was 65 so he said I start having symptoms sooner and at higher numbers than others so my system is less tolerant to low's if that makes more sense? So I am wondering if that would hold true for the thyroid. 
The Dr. wanted to wait 6 month's before starting on any medication to see if the numbers correcected on their own. I could not believe it. It took me 2 month's to get in to see him and in those 2 month's I had started feeling worse. I called the nurse back and asked if he would try me on the medication anyway because I have been taking a really good multivitamin and the b12 shot for 6 month's and my energy has went down, not gotten any better, the reason I went to him was because I felt like crap and he wanted to do nothing? I do not want to wait another 6 month's, lay around feeling like crap just to satisfy him. I am getting nothing done around the house, I don't go anywhere because I feel awful, I have basically become a shut in. He finally agreed to start me on 25 mcg of SYNTHROID. But I had to be a nag and a half to get it and that didn't set well with me. I have a name of another Dr. that my niece uses that I am going to make an appointment with but it will take some time I am sure to get in to see him as well. 
Should I have had to beg and nag to get treatment like that? Is it normal for them to want to wait 6 month's to start someone on a treatment when they feel completely awful and their life is crap because of it? Any input will be greatly appreciated. This is all new to me and I am flying blind here. Sorry this post is so long but I guess I was venting some as I posted as well.
Thanks guys
Melissa


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## hillaryedrn (Dec 14, 2009)

Hi Melissa!! First off, I'm so sorry you are feeling bad. I know what you're going through and it's horrible. Do try to get your lab results and post them as that will help us tons. No, you shouldn't have to beg to get treatment at all! That's rediculous!! I don't know if your doctor is just trying to play it safe or what. When you do get back in to see someone, ask for FREE T3 and T4 and antibody tests. The frees will help us most along with the TSH. Andros will reply to your post soon and she'll know the actual name of the antibody tests. I can never remember them! LOL Anyway, Please do keep us posted!!

So, have you started the Synthroid yet? How is that working for you?


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## mccreel (Apr 13, 2010)

I pick it up this morning and start it this morning. I had to call and ask for the answers for the test results. I had been having problems with my potassium dropping,(separate problem) but I had told him my family dr had been treating that but I had come to him for a work up to get everything checked since I had been feeling so horrible and my main concern was getting my thyroid checked. When I called for results,(since they did not call me) they told me my potassium but he did not even notate about the thyroid I had to get his nurse to go and ask him specifically about the tests. Then I had to call back to find out what he said before I told his nurse that I wanted to go on the medication and not wait 6 month's before I try any kind of treatment. I have felt awful for years starting with feeling awful with my surgery and I am tired of it and do not want to wait any longer. I am surprised he went ahead and gave it to me. But glad he did. In the last week in waiting for the results my swelling has gotten worse and my energy level has gotten worse. Almost to the point of feeling sick with a virus and wanting to stay in bed all the time, yet he says I am at the top end of low. As I said before, I am sensitive to things though so maybe I am sensitive to thyroid symptoms like I am to hypoglycemic symptoms since I start having symptoms of hypoglycemia at higher lab numbers than what Dr's say I should be showing symptoms at by labs. Yet I have symptoms and pass out. I know they have a baseline they have to go by but everyone is different and if someone has the symptoms and are feeling crappy, gaining weight, dry skin, bloating, sleeping all the time, no energy, etc, and their numbers are on the low end of normal or the high end of low, that aught to tell them something. But I guess that makes too much sense. 
Sorry, had to vent. 
What should I expect when I start SYNTHROID? Does it have many side effects? How long before it starts working? Is there a way of taking it that makes the absorbsion better? 
Sorry for so many questions but I am such a green newbie and my Dr. don't volunteer anything. It will be a little bit before I can get to the other Dr.
Thanks guys,
Melissa


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

mccreel said:


> I pick it up this morning and start it this morning. I had to call and ask for the answers for the test results. I had been having problems with my potassium dropping,(separate problem) but I had told him my family dr had been treating that but I had come to him for a work up to get everything checked since I had been feeling so horrible and my main concern was getting my thyroid checked. When I called for results,(since they did not call me) they told me my potassium but he did not even notate about the thyroid I had to get his nurse to go and ask him specifically about the tests. Then I had to call back to find out what he said before I told his nurse that I wanted to go on the medication and not wait 6 month's before I try any kind of treatment. I have felt awful for years starting with feeling awful with my surgery and I am tired of it and do not want to wait any longer. I am surprised he went ahead and gave it to me. But glad he did. In the last week in waiting for the results my swelling has gotten worse and my energy level has gotten worse. Almost to the point of feeling sick with a virus and wanting to stay in bed all the time, yet he says I am at the top end of low. As I said before, I am sensitive to things though so maybe I am sensitive to thyroid symptoms like I am to hypoglycemic symptoms since I start having symptoms of hypoglycemia at higher lab numbers than what Dr's say I should be showing symptoms at by labs. Yet I have symptoms and pass out. I know they have a baseline they have to go by but everyone is different and if someone has the symptoms and are feeling crappy, gaining weight, dry skin, bloating, sleeping all the time, no energy, etc, and their numbers are on the low end of normal or the high end of low, that aught to tell them something. But I guess that makes too much sense.
> Sorry, had to vent.
> What should I expect when I start SYNTHROID? Does it have many side effects? How long before it starts working? Is there a way of taking it that makes the absorbsion better?
> Sorry for so many questions but I am such a green newbie and my Dr. don't volunteer anything. It will be a little bit before I can get to the other Dr.
> ...


Hi Melissa and welcome!! Have you had any antibodies' tests run? Do you have any labs you could share with us at this time??

You have been through it, that is for sure and I cannot help but think almost all your prior medical conditions may be secondary to undiagnosed and untreated autoimmune thyroid disease.

Here are some antibodies' tests that I personally recommend that you have done.......

TSI (thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin),TPO (antimicrosomal antibodies) TBII (thyrotropin-binding inhibitory immunoglobulin), Thyroglobulin Ab, ANA (antinuclear antibodies),TSH, Free T3, Free T4.

You can look this stuff up here and more.........
http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/conditions/thyroid.html

Glad the doc finally relented and started you on Synthroid but he can't leave you there w/o having you to come in for labs every 8 weeks and doing further titration until you feel completely well.

You don't necessarily need an endo. You just need a doctor who cares about you. You could see a DO, and Internist, a GP, A PCP...........................anyone could help you if they want to. It "is" as simple as that. Sadly.


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## mccreel (Apr 13, 2010)

I don 't think he did any antibodies. Just basic TSH (I think that's right) T4, and some test that was elevated that begins with an A that I know is awful but I can not remember the name of. I am about to call and get them to send me a copy of the results. But that is all of the tests he has run. Can thyroid be a symptom of endometriosis or can endometriosis be a symptom of thyroid problems or both linked? I also had to have my gallbladder removed because it started giving me major problems about 5 month's ago, major pain, couldn't eat, chest pains. Don't know if that has anything to do with anything but there it is.


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## mccreel (Apr 13, 2010)

I just contacted the office and they are mailing the results to me. They would not tell me over the phone the exact test results for some reason. As soon as I get them in the mail I will post them.
Melissa


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

mccreel said:


> I don 't think he did any antibodies. Just basic TSH (I think that's right) T4, and some test that was elevated that begins with an A that I know is awful but I can not remember the name of. I am about to call and get them to send me a copy of the results. But that is all of the tests he has run. Can thyroid be a symptom of endometriosis or can endometriosis be a symptom of thyroid problems or both linked? I also had to have my gallbladder removed because it started giving me major problems about 5 month's ago, major pain, couldn't eat, chest pains. Don't know if that has anything to do with anything but there it is.


Sounds like that may have been ANA (antinuclear antibodies) which if present is "suggestive" of a myriad of autoimmune diseases such as thyroid, lupus, sjogren's, RA, Scleroderma, MS, Diabetes and so on. If present, further testing needs to be done.

The ones I suggest are specific to the thyroid. Oh,yeah on the endometriosis and most definitely on the gall bladder. Oh my! So many with thyroid disease have to have the GB out! Why, because motility is slowed down and nothing works in a timely fashion as it should. Hence the stones. Also kidney stones. Make sure you keep your kidneys good and flushed. You don't need that.

Here's some stuff on the endometriosis and thyroid.

http://www.disabled-world.com/health/female/endometriosis.php

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/endometriosis.htm

http://www.infertilityphysician.com/endometriosis/heredity.html

There is a lot out there. Put thyroid, endometriosis in your search engine.

Please do your best to get these labs run.....

TSI (thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin),TPO (antimicrosomal antibodies) TBII (thyrotropin-binding inhibitory immunoglobulin), Thyroglobulin Ab, ANA (antinuclear antibodies),TSH, Free T3, Free T4.

You can look this stuff up here and more.........
http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/conditions/thyroid.html

You can also look up your ANA on this site.


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## mccreel (Apr 13, 2010)

I started having a lot of kidney stones about 10 years ago. Maby that is when my thyroid started acting up because that is when I started having small problems when endometrisis and my first dr. blew it off and it took me until 2007 to find a dr that did the right tests to find out it was endometriosis and by then my uteris was stuck to my stomack wall and I was in a lot of pain all the time and had to be on tylanol with codein 10 all the time before surgery and still had severe pain.
Now my grandmother was diagnosed with lupis late in life, in her 60's. and my neice has fibromiaolga. I have no symptoms of either of those to but I don't think either of those 2 had their thyroid checked very well. Do you think it is all connected, a family thing?


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## mccreel (Apr 13, 2010)

Oh yeah, with starting the SYNTHROID today is there any major side effects to it? Is there anything I shouls look out for, a better time to take it where it would be absorbed better as to have it work better? Again, the dr. didn't tell me much information on anything.
Thanks


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

mccreel said:


> I started having a lot of kidney stones about 10 years ago. Maby that is when my thyroid started acting up because that is when I started having small problems when endometrisis and my first dr. blew it off and it took me until 2007 to find a dr that did the right tests to find out it was endometriosis and by then my uteris was stuck to my stomack wall and I was in a lot of pain all the time and had to be on tylanol with codein 10 all the time before surgery and still had severe pain.
> Now my grandmother was diagnosed with lupis late in life, in her 60's. and my neice has fibromiaolga. I have no symptoms of either of those to but I don't think either of those 2 had their thyroid checked very well. Do you think it is all connected, a family thing?


Oh, yes...........this indeed sounds familial. Genetically inherited Autoimmune.

Please make sure your doctor knows of your family history and we all will be anxious to see those labs and ranges when you get them.

I take a stamped, self-addressed envelope w/me when I get labs. It works like a charm. I always get a copy in a timely manner.


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## arizonamom (Mar 10, 2010)

Welcome to Thyroid Boards, Melissa! I am a relative newcomer here. I am a "new" hypothyroid patient with a host of issues myself. I have been given some really good advise here. Like Andros says, you need to have the FreeT4 and FreeT3 and antibodies tests done asap. The TSH alone tells you nothing. I was told my TSH was "normal", as were my T4 and T3. What is normal for one person, is not necessarily normal for another. With Andros' advice, I pushed my endocrinologist for more tests, including the FreeT4/T3 and guess what - my FreeT4 was low! She has now started me on a very low dose of Levoxyl. If I hadn't insisted on those tests, she never would have ordered them, no matter how much I complained to her about how crappy I've been feeling.

As for the answers to your questions about Synthroid, I can't give you any advise but I am sure someone on here will. This board is full of very helpful, knowledge-filled people. Hang in there!!


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## mccreel (Apr 13, 2010)

My Dr.'s office called and they have made me an apppointment with the other endocrynologist at UAB in Birmingham. I just don't have the exact date yet because they left a message and I have not had a chance to get back with them to find out the details yet. I am looking forward to going to him though because the first Dr. I went to mailed me the the paperwork to have the bloodwork done before I go to him for the followup. He only has TSH marked. Now I know I am new at this but it seems like if I am starting to show thyroid problems it seems like he would want to test more than one thing. Espesially when I go for a check up for the first time after beginning on medication. I am really glad now I got my family Dr. to make that appointment with the other specialist at the Kirkland Cllinic at UAB. I will make sure to ask for everything that can be run. I just wonder if I have been borderline normal to low for a while and it has finally tipped? I seemed O.K. until I started having surgeries back in 2002. Have had 2 knee surgeries before my surgeris for endometriosis. Of corse when I started having my endometriosis problems, before I got the correct diagnosis, I was gaining weight a pound here and there but not much, and feeling off, but having all kinds of female problems that my dr just shooed away as me getting older and that I would not be normal like I was younger. Until I found a Dr. that would listen and agree that severe pain is not normal. It's amazing what some dr's try to pass off as what we should put up with as being normal when we were not that way before, all of the sudden there is a change in our system, and we are supposed to accept that. We know it's wrong, they are supposed to be Dr.'s why don't they know it's wrong. 
Sorry, rant over. I have just been through this with a back problem I had, the gallbladder problem I had they didn't want to believe was my gallbladder because pain was on the wrong side but I made them run the test and low and behold, it was my gallbladder, the endometriosis problem I have mentioned, last year I was admitted in the hospital with a reaction to medications called seratonin syndrome, a reaction to my migrain med that causes seizure type symptoms, affected my talking, literraly could not walk had to have the nurse help me to the bathroom, would completly loose my train of thought like alzthimers, and they tried to say it was anxiety, that I may have had problems with my husband that i was not telling them. I told them about the medications and the reactions and they ignored me. I even showed them the fda warnings and they still ignored me. they even gave me another medication that triggered another episode of seizure symptoms. People have died with this reaction and the would not aknowledge it. I was released from the hospital even though I was still having full blown symptoms, went to my family dr. he said I was right, gave me medication that was needed to counteract the symptoms of seratonin syndrome and I finally started getting better. I just get tired of having to push to get what needs to be done to get me back to right. 
So I guess I am going to have to push my way through again to get what I need again. I don't understand why they have to make it so difficult
Also, I am on my 2ed day of Synthroid, only 25mcg, I know it is real early but I seem to be beginning to have a little more energy and I have been having to urinate like crazy. I had been swelling a lot more lately and in the past week had gained 5lbs doing nothing different. Eating less fattening things actually. Less frying, less sauces, gained weight. (YUCK). Since starting the meds yesterday I have already dropped that extra 5lbs I had picked up. I knew it was water weight because I would wake up and my eyes would be swollen. I tend to swell badly anyway most all the time but the last couple of month's, especially the last week for some reason has been awful. So it at least seems to be helping with water weight for now. we'll see how much better it does when it has a chance to get into my system good.
Thanks for all your guys support. I feel real lost right now going into all this. Especially coming from a Dr. that does not seem to want to run the tests he needs to run to find out everything.


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## hillaryedrn (Dec 14, 2009)

Hi there!! Sorry it took me so long to get back to you but my hubby is in the hospital (troublemaker  ) Hehe! Anyway, when I started taking my Synthroid (112mcg) I didn't notice any sudden changes, but like you said, a gradual feeling better. I had been on cytomel prior to that and it was like I was hyped up on cocaine!! The Synthroid was a calmer medication for me and that was wonderful. I now have an overall sense of wellness. I have more energy, my mood is improved, libido improved, everything! It's wonderful!

You are right to insist on more labs. Just the TSH by itself really doesn't tell you what is going on. You AT LEAST need the frees done. Don't feel too bad, tho, I have a hard time getting my endo to do anything other than standard as well. It will get better, but you will have to be your own advocate! :hugs:


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## mccreel (Apr 13, 2010)

I just got my labs mailed to me and here is everything he had tested and what they said.
Sodium 140 norm 133 to 145
Potassium 3.4 norm 3.5 to 5.0
Chloride 103 norm 96 to 108
co2 25 norm 22 to 29
urea nitrogen 15 norm 6 to 20
creatinine 1.2 norm .4 to1.1
glucose 79 norm 70 to 100
calcium 9.4 norm 8.8 to 10.2
anion gap 12 norm 7 to 17
cack osmolalty 279
bun/creat 13 norm 10 to 20
gfr non afr amer 50 referance range shown >60
magnesium 1.8 norm 1.6 to 2.5
free t4 1.04 norm .8 to 1.70
tsh 5.4 norm .27 to 4.23

When I see my other specialist I am gong to mention like I have here before about me being super sensative to things like with my blood suger reaction. With other people, there reaction to hypoglycemia, when their sugar drops, they get symptoms when their sugar hits around or under 60. I start getting symptoms when my suger gets to 70 and starts dropping from there. 70 I start feeling week and light headed, from there I get shakey. By time I get to 60 I am about to be picked up off the floore. I may be the same for the thyroid as well. I don't know exactly how to read these numbers, I know they are not the worst out there, but I know I have been feeling awful. I have been sick and run down before from time to time. Turned out my iron was low, things like that. But this has been different. I have tried all kinds of strong multivitimans, extra iron supplements, been on b12 shots, exercising, eating better, and I keep feeling worse. I would hate to see how I felt if my numbers were super bad.
I am going to take a list of the tests that was listed here with me and ask for all I can to be run. I want a complete work up becuase I am tired of this and want this fixed as soon as possible.


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## Shamrocker (Apr 15, 2010)

*So....if the Free T3 and Free T4 are "within normal limits", is it worth pushing for the ANA, TBII, TSI, and TPO? I had to fight pretty hard just to get the Free T3 and Free T4 (results still pending). TSH and total T4 are "normal", but I'm highly symptomatic.

I just hate having to be the "pushy patient from Hell" who refuses to believe everything's "normal". At the same time, I don't want to leave any stone unturned when it's possible medication could vastly improve my quality of life.

In general, have people had better results with endo's or general (family) practitioners in terms of getting thorough testing? Is there a place on this site where people list helpful doctors and their locations? Thanks.*


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## GD Women (Mar 5, 2007)

If your TSH is within Lab range you should not need antibody testing. Antibody presence or absence does not change the diagnosis of hyper/hypo thyroid disease (which is based on serum TSH measurements) or the expected efficacy of treatment.
However, TSH with both FTs on how they relate to each other will relate autoimmune and which one, along with other types of health issues. Unless there is a suspect of cancer there is a specific antibody test that would be tested regardless..

I was diagnosed by an Internist and going to one ever since. I went once to an Endo. and found him useless. Most Endos. specialize in diabetes and thyroid way down the list of their expertise. There are or were at the time I went, only two Endos in the county, I guess I chose the wrong one.

Good Luck


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## mccreel (Apr 13, 2010)

I am definately not a specialist in this by any means but i have learned a lot in the past week or 2 since my dr. appt. The tsh is the first sign from what I have seen on whether or not you are hypo or hyper thyroid. As I stated before, my dr. didn't want to do anything and my tsh numbers show I was clearly out of range. I have done some research on his speciality and it says internist with endocrynology but his speciality's, in order, says this:
Internal Medicine 
Sub-specialties: Endocrinology and Metabolism, Endocrinology, Diabetes & Metabolism 
Special Expertise:
Adrenal Gland Diseases; Diabetes Mellitus; General Endocrinology and Metabolism

The new Dr. I have an appointment with, Dr. Rosenthal, at the Kirkland Clinic in Birmingham, Al also main speciality is internist that also specializes in endocrynology but his speciality's list as this:
Internal Medicine 
Sub-specialty: Endocrinology, Diabetes & Metabolism 
Special Expertise:
Diabetes Complications; Diabetes Mellitus; Lipid Metabolism Disorders; Thyroid Diseases 
My niece has gone to Dr. Rosenthal. She went undiagnosed for well over a year with severe diebeties. She was passing out, getting severly sick, but other people that was running tests was saying there was nothing wrong. She went to him and he run the right tests. She was not having an attack when those other tests were run, but he knew what to run and her sugar was doing some severe swings when they started monotoring it. One time her husband could not wake her up and took her to the emergency room when he checked her sugar and it topped out over 600. She is so bad she has to wear an insulan pump all the time. She can not just do shots. And he is the only one that found it. So I am hopeful he will listen to me on how bad I am feeling and run every test possible to run. They even sent me paperwork on my visit telling me too ask all about my tests they may want to run, only consent to what I understand, that I have the right to be treated with respect and dignity, to be informed about my diagnosis, treatment and prognosis, that i have the right to the information in my medical records, the right to choose advance directives about my health, etc. It already sounds a lot better than my last visit to that last dr. When I spoke to the nurse, she just told me my potassium level, did not tell me my thyroid at all, I had to ask and he had not even given her direction to tell me anything about my thyroid results. And now that I know my tsh numbers is off like it is, it really makes me mad. Besides the fact of having to pester the heck out of him to just get the 25 mcg dosage of synthyroid..
I hate to say it but it has taken me with other problems I have had up to 3 to 4 different dr.'s to find one that would listen. It's all trial and error.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Shamrocker said:


> *So....if the Free T3 and Free T4 are "within normal limits", is it worth pushing for the ANA, TBII, TSI, and TPO? I had to fight pretty hard just to get the Free T3 and Free T4 (results still pending). TSH and total T4 are "normal", but I'm highly symptomatic.
> 
> I just hate having to be the "pushy patient from Hell" who refuses to believe everything's "normal". At the same time, I don't want to leave any stone unturned when it's possible medication could vastly improve my quality of life.
> 
> In general, have people had better results with endo's or general (family) practitioners in terms of getting thorough testing? Is there a place on this site where people list helpful doctors and their locations? Thanks.*


My thyroid panel was always in normal range for years and I almost died from a thyroid storm so..........

I am of the humble opinion that antibodies' tests should indeed be run. You bettcha'!

This is what I personally suggest.

TSI (thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin),TPO (antimicrosomal antibodies) TBII (thyrotropin-binding inhibitory immunoglobulin), Thyroglobulin Ab, ANA (antinuclear antibodies),TSH, Free T3, Free T4.

You can look this stuff up here and more.........
http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/conditions/thyroid.html


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

mccreel said:


> I am definately not a specialist in this by any means but i have learned a lot in the past week or 2 since my dr. appt. The tsh is the first sign from what I have seen on whether or not you are hypo or hyper thyroid. As I stated before, my dr. didn't want to do anything and my tsh numbers show I was clearly out of range. I have done some research on his speciality and it says internist with endocrynology but his speciality's, in order, says this:
> Internal Medicine
> Sub-specialties: Endocrinology and Metabolism, Endocrinology, Diabetes & Metabolism
> Special Expertise:
> ...


When do you see Rosenthal? I believe you are on the right track!! You are right; it is a crap shoot and we have to "pay" every time we throw the dice. "There oughtta' be a law!"


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## mccreel (Apr 13, 2010)

I just read through my post, sorry about the crappy spelling, it was late, or early, or whatever. I noticed some horrendous words...lol...
Melissa


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