# I told you so...I told you so!



## I DClaire

Everyone who knows me has no doubt grown weary of my complaining about being so tired for the past almost two months. I started Armour the end of December and was instructed to have labs done today (at 8 weeks) then see my endocrinologist one week from today.

This morning I dutifully drug myself across town to have labs drawn at the hospital where I had surgery then came back home.

The phone rang while we were eating lunch and my doctor's PA said the hospital lab had noticed a problem with some of my test results. She said they only had my TSH and T4 BUT the lab wanted those results shown to my doctor right away...apparently they were so low that the reason for the phone call was to ask *if I'd even been taking my Armour???*

I almost started crying! The PA asked had I been having hypothyroid symptoms and I told her absolutely, that I was so hypo I could barely function! She replied, "I'll bet so!"

So...tomorrow morning I'll begin taking 90 mg instead of 60 mg Armour. Considering how bad I feel, 30 mg doesn't seem like much but it's got to be better than where I am now.

I'll see the endocrinologist a week from today and get my test results then BUT I am so happy and so impressed that the hospital lab (of all things) took enough interest to bring my test results to the doctor's attention.


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## joplin1975

Yay for more meds!

I know how you feel...6 weeks at 50mcgs after a TT nearly did me in. I hope you feel much better very, very soon.


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## Andros

I DClaire said:


> Everyone who knows me has no doubt grown weary of my complaining about being so tired for the past almost two months. I started Armour the end of December and was instructed to have labs done today (at 8 weeks) then see my endocrinologist one week from today.
> 
> This morning I dutifully drug myself across town to have labs drawn at the hospital where I had surgery then came back home.
> 
> The phone rang while we were eating lunch and my doctor's PA said the hospital lab had noticed a problem with some of my test results. She said they only had my TSH and T4 BUT the lab wanted those results shown to my doctor right away...apparently they were so low that the reason for the phone call was to ask *if I'd even been taking my Armour???*
> 
> I almost started crying! The PA asked had I been having hypothyroid symptoms and I told her absolutely, that I was so hypo I could barely function! She replied, "I'll bet so!"
> 
> So...tomorrow morning I'll begin taking 90 mg instead of 60 mg Armour. Considering how bad I feel, 30 mg doesn't seem like much but it's got to be better than where I am now.
> 
> I'll see the endocrinologist a week from today and get my test results then BUT I am so happy and so impressed that the hospital lab (of all things) took enough interest to bring my test results to the doctor's attention.


Oh, you poor dear and sweet lady! Of course we all knew it. You "will" feel the 30 mg. and when you see the endo, hopefully he/she will raise it even further.

Yay!

And I truly am so sorry for all your suffering; I "really" am!


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## webster2

Oh Happy Days!!!! I am so glad for you! I hope you will begin to feel much better , see you knew, it just took those medical people longer to figure it out!


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## Octavia

Well, this is good news, indeed...even though it's bad news...if that makes sense! 'Bout time someone took notice!!!

Progress, progress, progress...baby steps, Bob, baby steps! (From my husband's favorite movie)


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## joplin1975

What About Bob!!! It's been my mantra through this whole experience. :-


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## Octavia

Exactly!


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## I DClaire

Like Bob, I'm about one step away from carrying around a pet goldfish!

We keep losing our local Internet service for some reason. It was out all day, restored for an hour or so, gone again until a minute ago...but who knows for how long? I'm so anxious to begin taking the 90 mg Armour tomorrow that I probably won't be able to sleep tonight. :indifferent0023:


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## webster2

IDC, it looks like we are in the same boat...nice to have company, isn't it?!?!?  My TSH came back, and the lab ran the test twice to see if it was really correct. I am going on 1.5 grains and will test again in 4 weeks.


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## I DClaire

Today has been _different_...that's a fact! Usually, by mid-afternoon with the prospect of having to ever so slowly walk my dog around the block looming, I feel such a level of exhaustion that I take a cell phone, afraid my heart might actually go into some kind of arrhythmia and by the time I'd get home I could barely walk up the driveway. I do not feel that way today! I have not felt breathless. I have not felt my heart pounding all day.

That being said, I've felt rather nervous much of today BUT I'm thinking that is probably to be expected, and hopefully will settle down.

I feel happier, more focused...I can exert myself a little bit without feeling like my heart is going to explode!


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## Octavia

Wonderful!!!!!!

:hugs:


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## I DClaire

Octavia said:


> Wonderful!!!!!!
> 
> :hugs:


I believe this is the first day in MONTHS that I have not had chest pain. As late as mid-September my cardiologist was still saying that my heart was strong and my heart symptoms would probably go away when I got my thyroid issues under control. I have not had chest pain today! I almost can't believe it. I walked Jimbo with a spring in my step I have not known in ages. For the first time in so long I did not feel breathless.

I am cautiously optimistic. I'm afraid to let myself believe maybe this really is a big step. My blood pressure has been great today, my pulse has stayed normal - I am so encouraged.


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## Andros

I DClaire said:


> Today has been _different_...that's a fact! Usually, by mid-afternoon with the prospect of having to ever so slowly walk my dog around the block looming, I feel such a level of exhaustion that I take a cell phone, afraid my heart might actually go into some kind of arrhythmia and by the time I'd get home I could barely walk up the driveway. I do not feel that way today! I have not felt breathless. I have not felt my heart pounding all day.
> 
> That being said, I've felt rather nervous much of today BUT I'm thinking that is probably to be expected, and hopefully will settle down.
> 
> I feel happier, more focused...I can exert myself a little bit without feeling like my heart is going to explode!


It will settle; stay busy to keep your mind off the transition. I am rooting for you and Webster!!


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## webster2

I didn't notice any change today, darn...maybe tomorrow!


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## Andros

webster2 said:


> I didn't notice any change today, darn...maybe tomorrow!


If you are deficient, your body sucks the T3 right up until it builds up and "then" you will feel the change. 3 to 4 days is my estimation.

Let us know.


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## webster2

Andros said:


> If you are deficient, your body sucks the T3 right up until it builds up and "then" you will feel the change. 3 to 4 days is my estimation.
> 
> Let us know.


I sure will! It seems like it was an instant feel better last time, but I am in the bottom of the TSH barrel right now! Well, a few of the other T's too...


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## I DClaire

webster2 said:


> I sure will! It seems like it was an instant feel better last time, but I am in the bottom of the TSH barrel right now! Well, a few of the other T's too...


I'm anxious to see my latest lab results. I assumed everything was too low but, actually, everything might be too high! The doctor just said there was a problem...she didn't elaborate over the phone.

I've also enjoyed a couple of "instant feel betters" that fizzled quickly AND the only dramatic thing I've noticed so far is how calm my heart seems to be. I have not slept as soundly the past few nights as I've been sleeping but I guess I've slept O.K.

I don't feel anything spectacular as far as energy but I am reveling in the immediate way my blood pressure and all that breathlessness and chest pain subsided.


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## Andros

I DClaire said:


> I'm anxious to see my latest lab results. I assumed everything was too low but, actually, everything might be too high! The doctor just said there was a problem...she didn't elaborate over the phone.
> 
> I've also enjoyed a couple of "instant feel betters" that fizzled quickly AND the only dramatic thing I've noticed so far is how calm my heart seems to be. I have not slept as soundly the past few nights as I've been sleeping but I guess I've slept O.K.
> 
> I don't feel anything spectacular as far as energy but I am reveling in the immediate way my blood pressure and all that breathlessness and chest pain subsided.


Progress in small increments is better than none at all. You are "getting" there and the best part is once you do, you will stay there.


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## I DClaire

I am so tired this afternoon I feel like my arms might fall off. The only real improvement I've seen from adding another 30 mg Armour is that my "heart symptoms" continue to be almost normal. THAT, in and of itself, is a huge improvement but I remain desperate for more energy.

I haven't been able to be online much - every day seems to bring a new family problem. Right now our biggest concern is sudden changes to Paul's vision. He was diagnosed with "dry" macular degeneration years ago and it has remained stable until one afternoon last week when he was playing golf and suddenly his club looked wavy. Not good!

He underwent several tests this morning but the ophthalmologist doesn't seem to think what he (the doctor) is seeing makes sense so he made an appointment for Paul to see a retina specialist tomorrow for a test where they'll inject a dye medium to determine what's happening...possibly leading to some kind of injections directly into one or both eyes.

I have such a tremendous story to share with everyone when time permits. It is not health related (if you can believe that) but concerns a most bizarre incident that happened when I was a child that has this past week gained attention again. It only involves me in the sense that it happened where my family lived - a cast iron coffin with a glass insert was accidently unearthed. Really a fascinating story!!


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## Octavia

Can't wait to hear that story!

I hope the doctors figure out what's going on with Paul's eyes...that has to be very frightening.

When are you "eligible" for another increase in your Armour, if deemed appropriate?


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## I DClaire

Octavia said:


> Can't wait to hear that story!
> 
> I hope the doctors figure out what's going on with Paul's eyes...that has to be very frightening.
> 
> When are you "eligible" for another increase in your Armour, if deemed appropriate?


I have an appointment with my endocrinologist tomorrow morning but I doubt she'll change anything since I've only been on the increased dose for one week.

The story is long but (as someone who loves a mystery and history) I think it's interesting. I'm hoping to receive one more piece of the puzzle tomorrow...if so, one way or another I'll share the story. It may take me an hour to write it!!


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## Andros

I DClaire said:


> I am so tired this afternoon I feel like my arms might fall off. The only real improvement I've seen from adding another 30 mg Armour is that my "heart symptoms" continue to be almost normal. THAT, in and of itself, is a huge improvement but I remain desperate for more energy.
> 
> I haven't been able to be online much - every day seems to bring a new family problem. Right now our biggest concern is sudden changes to Paul's vision. He was diagnosed with "dry" macular degeneration years ago and it has remained stable until one afternoon last week when he was playing golf and suddenly his club looked wavy. Not good!
> 
> He underwent several tests this morning but the ophthalmologist doesn't seem to think what he (the doctor) is seeing makes sense so he made an appointment for Paul to see a retina specialist tomorrow for a test where they'll inject a dye medium to determine what's happening...possibly leading to some kind of injections directly into one or both eyes.
> 
> I have such a tremendous story to share with everyone when time permits. It is not health related (if you can believe that) but concerns a most bizarre incident that happened when I was a child that has this past week gained attention again. It only involves me in the sense that it happened where my family lived - a cast iron coffin with a glass insert was accidently unearthed. Really a fascinating story!!


Paul is in my prayers. Oh,man! It is just never ending.

And you "know" we dearly love your stories; a lot!


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## Octavia

I DClaire said:


> I have an appointment with my endocrinologist tomorrow morning but I doubt she'll change anything since I've only been on the increased dose for one week.
> 
> The story is long but (as someone who loves a mystery and history) I think it's interesting. I'm hoping to receive one more piece of the puzzle tomorrow...if so, one way or another I'll share the story. It may take me an hour to write it!!


For your sanity...you might want to type it in a word proceeing tool (Microsoft word-like), then copy and paste it here...just so you don't lose it!


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## Octavia

I mean the document...so you don't lose the document. (And subsequently "lose it"!)


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## Andros

Octavia said:


> I mean the document...so you don't lose the document. (And subsequently "lose it"!)


I thought you meant her sanity; I "really" did! ROLF!!!


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## I DClaire

Andros said:


> I thought you meant her sanity; I "really" did! ROLF!!!


Not to worry...I have very carefully stashed my sanity in a folder in Word Perfect - I can access it anytime!! :jumping0047:

Paul asked me this morning if Leap Year Day was supposed to be a good luck day? Apparently not for us! After spending the entire afternoon with the retina specialist, Paul was told his macular degeneration status has changed, a blood vessel or something in his right eye is _leaking._ The doctor ran a test similar to an angioplasty (with a dye medium) that indicated the right eye has changed...and he said it could deteriorate quickly OR maybe respond positively to a couple of treatment options. We go back tomorrow afternoon to start the first such treatment - an injection directly into Paul's eye! For awhile he'll receive these injections monthly - followed by the angioplasty test to see if the bleeding stops.

The surgeon who did my thyroidectomy in September told me he got all the cancer and the pathology report confirmed it SO I didn't put any stock whatsoever in the necessity for the blood test I was told I'd have every couple of months called a Thyroglobulin Thyroid Tumor Marker...a test to detect thyroid cancer cells anywhere in my body. Today my endocrinologist told me my test one week ago today indicated changes that might be important...so next week I've got to go back to the hospital lab/radiology department for more tests, including an ultrasound of the "thyroid bed". Apparently there is no way to get all that tissue out during surgery and if anything suspicious turns-up, I'll still have to undergo the radioactive iodine treatment...which I so do not want to do! She said I'll have to have the tumor marker test and ultrasound for at least 5 years, which I also didn't know!

So, poo!!

My doctor doesn't know why I am not responding better to Synthroid and then Armour but my latest test results are ridiculous. She wants me to continue with the 90 mg Armour for three more weeks then she'll retest that also. She said (and I absolutely did not know this) 60 mg Armour was comparable to the 125 mcg Synthroid I took at first, that 90 mg Armour is a hefty dose. 

Here are the latest lab results:

T4 Free - 0.6 (Range 0.8-1.5) 

T3 Free - 1.8 (Range 2.0-3.6)

TSH - 28.900 (Range 0.37-4.55)


I seriously do not know what to make of those numbers. T4 Free and T3 Free low - TSH so high???


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## webster2

I DClaire said:


> Not to worry...I have very carefully stashed my sanity in a folder in Word Perfect - I can access it anytime!! :jumping0047:
> 
> Paul asked me this morning if Leap Year Day was supposed to be a good luck day? Apparently not for us! After spending the entire afternoon with the retina specialist, Paul was told his macular degeneration status has changed, a blood vessel or something in his right eye is _leaking._ The doctor ran a test similar to an angioplasty (with a dye medium) that indicated the right eye has changed...and he said it could deteriorate quickly OR maybe respond positively to a couple of treatment options. We go back tomorrow afternoon to start the first such treatment - an injection directly into Paul's eye! For awhile he'll receive these injections monthly - followed by the angioplasty test to see if the bleeding stops.
> 
> The surgeon who did my thyroidectomy in September told me he got all the cancer and the pathology report confirmed it SO I didn't put any stock whatsoever in the necessity for the blood test I was told I'd have every couple of months called a Thyroglobulin Thyroid Tumor Marker...a test to detect thyroid cancer cells anywhere in my body. Today my endocrinologist told me my test one week ago today indicated changes that might be important...so next week I've got to go back to the hospital lab/radiology department for more tests, including an ultrasound of the "thyroid bed". Apparently there is no way to get all that tissue out during surgery and if anything suspicious turns-up, I'll still have to undergo the radioactive iodine treatment...which I so do not want to do! She said I'll have to have the tumor marker test and ultrasound for at least 5 years, which I also didn't know!
> 
> So, poo!!
> 
> My doctor doesn't know why I am not responding better to Synthroid and then Armour but my latest test results are ridiculous. She wants me to continue with the 90 mg Armour for three more weeks then she'll retest that also. She said (and I absolutely did not know this) 60 mg Armour was comparable to the 125 mcg Synthroid I took at first, that 90 mg Armour is a hefty dose.
> 
> Here are the latest lab results:
> 
> T4 Free - 0.6 (Range 0.8-1.5)
> 
> T3 Free - 1.8 (Range 2.0-3.6)
> 
> TSH - 28.900 (Range 0.37-4.55)
> 
> 
> I seriously do not know what to make of those numbers. T4 Free and T3 Free low - TSH so high???


I am sorry to hear about Paul's situation. I will keep him in my prayers. Your labs are similar to mine. I have been reading the literature that comes with NDT, it says that raises by 1/4 are supposed to happen every 2 weeks until the patient reaches the optimal dose. It also states that most patients optimal dose is 2 grains. I wish you the best, it sounds like you have a lot going on. I will keep you in my prayers too.


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## webster2

P.S. I am staying on the 90 too and at 4 weeks she is going to do some adrenal support too. My iron and Vitamin D are still on the low side too. I guess all of these come into play with absorbtion. Even so, I am still glad the monster butterrfly is gone!


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## I DClaire

webster2 said:


> P.S. I am staying on the 90 too and at 4 weeks she is going to do some adrenal support too. My iron and Vitamin D are still on the low side too. I guess all of these come into play with absorbtion. Even so, I am still glad the monster butterrfly is gone!


My numbers kept me awake all night last night. I honestly don't see how such results are possible, particularly considering how much better they were the end of December.

On December 22, 2012, my T4 Free and T3 Free results weren't even up to the Range but my TSH was 28.900 with Range being 0.37-4.55?

I just do not see how this is possible.

On December 22, 2011, my T4 Free was 1.4 with Range being 0.8-1.5. My T3 Free was 2.5 with Range being 2.0-3.6. My TSH was 0.455 with Range being 0.37-4.55.

The ONLY thing that changed between December 22 and February 22 was I changed from 125 mcg Synthroid to 60 mg and then 90 mg Armour.

I'm more confused than ever! Are these tests ever simply wrong?


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## webster2

I DClaire said:


> My numbers kept me awake all night last night. I honestly don't see how such results are possible, particularly considering how much better they were the end of December.
> 
> On December 22, 2012, my T4 Free and T3 Free results weren't even up to the Range but my TSH was 28.900 with Range being 0.37-4.55?
> 
> I just do not see how this is possible.
> 
> On December 22, 2011, my T4 Free was 1.4 with Range being 0.8-1.5. My T3 Free was 2.5 with Range being 2.0-3.6. My TSH was 0.455 with Range being 0.37-4.55.
> 
> The ONLY thing that changed between December 22 and February 22 was I changed from 125 mcg Synthroid to 60 mg and then 90 mg Armour.
> 
> I'm more confused than ever! Are these tests ever simply wrong?


The doctor told me the lab ran the test twice because they thought there was an error. I am going to stay the course because even though the numbers are crappy, my brain fog has improved. I have such hypo symptoms it is not funny but I do think this is the med for me.

I don't know whether to badger the doctor into increasing at a faster pace. the iron and Vitamin D are still not great so maybe slower is better.

I am trying to be patient. My BIG goal this spring was to get back on my bike. I used to ride between 10 -20 miles a day. It may have to be a summer goal.

I am sorry we are still keeping each other company!


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## I DClaire

webster2 said:


> I am trying to be patient. My BIG goal this spring was to get back on my bike. I used to ride between 10 -20 miles a day. It may have to be a summer goal.
> 
> I am sorry we are still keeping each other company!


Same here - I told the doctor yesterday that the only thing on earth I am fixated on wanting to do and can't is to exercise. I do not have the stamina.

I'm convinced either my test was wrong OR something has been wrong with the Armour I've taken - for another reason other than these test results. I've complained for two months about my "heart symptoms" - primarily the chronic breathlessness and chest pain. The day I switched to 90 mg Armour all that stopped immediately. Coincidence?

The day the doctor called about my goofy test results her question was had I been even taking the Armour? I had accidently missed one dose in two months. What if the Armour itself was somehow flawed, what if it wasn't true to its formula? Mine never had so much as a hint of odor or taste and the 90 mg dose doesn't really have any...it is so faint that I'm not sure if I'm smelling the medication or the plastic container it's in?

I'm not the sharpest knife in the kitchen and have never claimed to be but common sense tells me my test results aren't right or something. I just don't believe my body was that "off" and I didn't realize it...but who knows???


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## Gwen1

I DClaire said:


> Same here - I told the doctor yesterday that the only thing on earth I am fixated on wanting to do and can't is to exercise. I do not have the stamina.
> 
> I've complained for two months about my "heart symptoms" - primarily the chronic breathlessness and chest pain. The day I switched to 90 mg Armour all that stopped immediately. Coincidence?
> 
> I'm not the sharpest knife in the kitchen and have never claimed to be but common sense tells me my test results aren't right or something.
> 
> 
> 
> I just don't believe my body was that "off" and I didn't realize it...but who knows???
Click to expand...

IDClaire: I think you did realize it. How you were feeling is reflected in your labs. Your labs are probably accurate.


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## Andros

I DClaire said:


> Not to worry...I have very carefully stashed my sanity in a folder in Word Perfect - I can access it anytime!! :jumping0047:
> 
> Paul asked me this morning if Leap Year Day was supposed to be a good luck day? Apparently not for us! After spending the entire afternoon with the retina specialist, Paul was told his macular degeneration status has changed, a blood vessel or something in his right eye is _leaking._ The doctor ran a test similar to an angioplasty (with a dye medium) that indicated the right eye has changed...and he said it could deteriorate quickly OR maybe respond positively to a couple of treatment options. We go back tomorrow afternoon to start the first such treatment - an injection directly into Paul's eye! For awhile he'll receive these injections monthly - followed by the angioplasty test to see if the bleeding stops.
> 
> The surgeon who did my thyroidectomy in September told me he got all the cancer and the pathology report confirmed it SO I didn't put any stock whatsoever in the necessity for the blood test I was told I'd have every couple of months called a Thyroglobulin Thyroid Tumor Marker...a test to detect thyroid cancer cells anywhere in my body. Today my endocrinologist told me my test one week ago today indicated changes that might be important...so next week I've got to go back to the hospital lab/radiology department for more tests, including an ultrasound of the "thyroid bed". Apparently there is no way to get all that tissue out during surgery and if anything suspicious turns-up, I'll still have to undergo the radioactive iodine treatment...which I so do not want to do! She said I'll have to have the tumor marker test and ultrasound for at least 5 years, which I also didn't know!
> 
> So, poo!!
> 
> My doctor doesn't know why I am not responding better to Synthroid and then Armour but my latest test results are ridiculous. She wants me to continue with the 90 mg Armour for three more weeks then she'll retest that also. She said (and I absolutely did not know this) 60 mg Armour was comparable to the 125 mcg Synthroid I took at first, that 90 mg Armour is a hefty dose.
> 
> Here are the latest lab results:
> 
> T4 Free - 0.6 (Range 0.8-1.5)
> 
> T3 Free - 1.8 (Range 2.0-3.6)
> 
> TSH - 28.900 (Range 0.37-4.55)
> 
> 
> I seriously do not know what to make of those numbers. T4 Free and T3 Free low - TSH so high???


You are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay undermedicated. I take 3 1/2 grains per day (210 mg.)

And I may just add my 2 cents worth here. Armour is not comparable to any synthetic. Not possible.

Also, make sure you are not estrogen dominant and that your ferritin is at a good place. Both of these issues can impede the efficacy of your Armour.

This is presuming that you are not taking calcium or iron within a 4 hour window to your Armour, that you do not have IBS or some other malasorption problem, not consuming soy or other goitrogens etc..

You are in a baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad place. You have to feel awful.

And poor Paul. The only good thing I can think of though is "something" can be done. For that we are all grateful.

Love and hugs to both of you,


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## Gwen1

I agree with Andros on the Armour not being comparable to Synthroid/synthetic drug. After looking up comparison charts for Synthroid and Armour, there were differing amount comparisons from one website to another. And one site explained that it is difficult to compare the two, because of the T3 factor and what our bodies do with it.
Just want to help give you some clarity, IDClaire. I know from experience that we can get confused as to how we are feeling/being affected. Yet from reading your posts, I feel you have a very good sense of what is going on with your body. -Gwen


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## Andros

I DClaire said:


> Same here - I told the doctor yesterday that the only thing on earth I am fixated on wanting to do and can't is to exercise. I do not have the stamina.
> 
> I'm convinced either my test was wrong OR something has been wrong with the Armour I've taken - for another reason other than these test results. I've complained for two months about my "heart symptoms" - primarily the chronic breathlessness and chest pain. The day I switched to 90 mg Armour all that stopped immediately. Coincidence?
> 
> The day the doctor called about my goofy test results her question was had I been even taking the Armour? I had accidently missed one dose in two months. What if the Armour itself was somehow flawed, what if it wasn't true to its formula? Mine never had so much as a hint of odor or taste and the 90 mg dose doesn't really have any...it is so faint that I'm not sure if I'm smelling the medication or the plastic container it's in?
> 
> I'm not the sharpest knife in the kitchen and have never claimed to be but common sense tells me my test results aren't right or something. I just don't believe my body was that "off" and I didn't realize it...but who knows???


Are you sure you are getting name brand Armour by Forest Pharmaceuticals?

Here is your pill identifier...................
http://www.drugs.com/imprints.php?action=search&drugname=armour+thyroid


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## Andros

Gwen1 said:


> I agree with Andros on the Armour not being comparable to Synthroid/synthetic drug. After looking up comparison charts for Synthroid and Armour, there were differing amount comparisons from one website to another. And one site explained that it is difficult to compare the two, because of the T3 factor and what our bodies do with it.
> Just want to help give you some clarity, IDClaire. I know from experience that we can get confused as to how we are feeling/being affected. Yet from reading your posts, I feel you have a very good sense of what is going on with your body. -Gwen


Yes she does and you are insightful to pick up on that. You know; cyber space and all!!!


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## I DClaire

Andros said:


> Are you sure you are getting name brand Armour by Forest Pharmaceuticals?
> 
> Here is your pill identifier...................
> http://www.drugs.com/imprints.php?action=search&drugname=armour+thyroid


That's the only thing I truly believe about all this, Andros. My prescriptions are identified as Armour from Forest Pharmaceuticals. They look like they're supposed to look. I buy them from a very reputable pharmacy.

I do know my body and I can't accept that those test results are accurate. I have not felt well BUT I don't think I've felt that bad...unless I'm totally out of touch with reality. It doesn't make sense to me that things went that bad with the introduction of Armour. It doesn't seem logical to me that one week ago I was switched to 90 mg Armour and all the symptoms I'd been having with breathlessness and chest pain vanished immediately.

I'm going to stay with the 90 mg dose and I'll bet the farm my next labs in three weeks will be back much closer to normal. Honestly, while I don't feel 100%, Lord knows I don't feel as bad as those test results would make it seem. Those are the worst numbers I've ever had.

I know we're not supposed to wish our lives away but I can hardly wait for my next labwork! I wish the doctor had elaborated the day she called about the weird results and maybe I could have repeated the tests that same day.


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## webster2

IDC, the lab ran my tests twice because they ddin't believe the results. I am wondering if there might be a bad batch of porker running around, or maybe ours was made with one that was hypo?  I do feel like poo.


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## Andros

I DClaire said:


> That's the only thing I truly believe about all this, Andros. My prescriptions are identified as Armour from Forest Pharmaceuticals. They look like they're supposed to look. I buy them from a very reputable pharmacy.
> 
> I do know my body and I can't accept that those test results are accurate. I have not felt well BUT I don't think I've felt that bad...unless I'm totally out of touch with reality. It doesn't make sense to me that things went that bad with the introduction of Armour. It doesn't seem logical to me that one week ago I was switched to 90 mg Armour and all the symptoms I'd been having with breathlessness and chest pain vanished immediately.
> 
> I'm going to stay with the 90 mg dose and I'll bet the farm my next labs in three weeks will be back much closer to normal. Honestly, while I don't feel 100%, Lord knows I don't feel as bad as those test results would make it seem. Those are the worst numbers I've ever had.
> 
> I know we're not supposed to wish our lives away but I can hardly wait for my next labwork! I wish the doctor had elaborated the day she called about the weird results and maybe I could have repeated the tests that same day.


Is your pharmacist dispensing off the shelf? The Armour could be old and exposed to humidity. My doc writes my Rx for "unopened" bottles of 1 grain tablets, 100 tabs to a bottle. They are always fresh and when I use them, I put about a week's worth in a little bottle so as to not keep on exposing the entire bottle to the humidity. They order it in for me. I call ahead, they order it and then I go in with my Rx and pick it up.

You can get your own labs as you probably well know.
http://www.healthcheckusa.com/


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## I DClaire

webster2 said:


> IDC, the lab ran my tests twice because they ddin't believe the results. I am wondering if there might be a bad batch of porker running around, or maybe ours was made with one that was hypo?  I do feel like poo.


I shouldn't have made fun of piggies! That would be my luck though - I'd get Armour from a hypothyroid pig. Not this one though!!








Andros, I'm positive the first Armour I got was from a fresh shipment. The first day I took my prescription to the pharmacy they only had a few tablets left - I had to go back the next day to get my full prescription from a shipment delivered that day. I actually saw the pharmacist unpacking the box.

We've used the same pharmacy and known the pharmacists there for as long as I can remember. My son-in-law became desperately ill a couple of years ago (actually hospitalized) after a generic drug he was taking was somehow messed-up.

With Paul now on Pradaxa, we were told the only OTC pain medication he could take was Tylenol. Last weekend he hurt his back so I went to find him a bottle of Tylenol. I went to three pharmacies before finding out no one had anything except Tylenol PM because something happened at the production plant several weeks ago and NO Tylenol is being shipped right now. Pharmacies have generic substitutes but no one I've found here has any Tylenol and they all say they've been trying to order it for weeks.


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## Andros

I DClaire said:


> I shouldn't have made fun of piggies! That would be my luck though - I'd get Armour from a hypothyroid pig. Not this one though!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andros, I'm positive the first Armour I got was from a fresh shipment. The first day I took my prescription to the pharmacy they only had a few tablets left - I had to go back the next day to get my full prescription from a shipment delivered that day. I actually saw the pharmacist unpacking the box.
> 
> We've used the same pharmacy and known the pharmacists there for as long as I can remember. My son-in-law became desperately ill a couple of years ago (actually hospitalized) after a generic drug he was taking was somehow messed-up.
> 
> With Paul now on Pradaxa, we were told the only OTC pain medication he could take was Tylenol. Last weekend he hurt his back so I went to find him a bottle of Tylenol. I went to three pharmacies before finding out no one had anything except Tylenol PM because something happened at the production plant several weeks ago and NO Tylenol is being shipped right now. Pharmacies have generic substitutes but no one I've found here has any Tylenol and they all say they've been trying to order it for weeks.


Poor little pigs.


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## I DClaire

I said I was going to put a chart on the wall! Let's see if this works here as well?

Lab results since surgery on September 23, 2011. All labs app. 10:30 A.M. at the same hospital lab.

*T4 FREE - Ranges 0.8-1.5*

November 10, 2011 - 1.4 (taking 125 mcg Synthroid)
December 22, 2011 - 1.4 (taking 125 mcg Synthroid)
February 22, 2012 - 0.6 (taking 60 mg Armour) ***

*T3 FREE - Ranges 2.0 - 3.6*

November 10, 2011 - 2.9 
December 22, 2011 - 2.5
February 22, 2012 - 1.8

*TSH - Ranges 0.37-4.55*

November 10, 2011 - 0.059
December 22, 2011 - 0.455
February 22, 2012 - 28.900

*Thyglobulin Tumor Mrk - Range 0*

November 10, 2011 - 0.3
February 22, 2012 - 5.5

I was switched from 60 mg Armour to 90 mg Armour on February 22, 2012 - the same day as the last labs.


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## Gwen1

IDClaire, For the Synthroid, you might want to add up the total weekly mcg. of what you were taking and note that on your chart. For example: Synthroid 125 x 6 days a week = 750 mcg. 125 x 6 1/2 = 812.5 mcg. 125 x 7 days = 875

Now 750 divided by 7 days is an average of 107 mcg. daily.
812 divided by 7 days is 116 mcg. daily dose.

It's another way to look at it.


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## Brucergoldberg

I just saw this post, i never check this section. I can't believe those freakin labs. FT4 0.6??? WTF! when do you re-test?

I know those labs were bad but you can only get better now.... What if they came back perfect when you felt that way? uggh


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## I DClaire

Brucergoldberg said:


> I just saw this post, i never check this section. I can't believe those freakin labs. FT4 0.6??? WTF! when do you re-test?
> 
> I know those labs were bad but you can only get better now.... What if they came back perfect when you felt that way? uggh


I don't believe they're right, Bruce. Like I said, I don't feel great BUT I absolutely do not feel as bad as those numbers would indicate.

I re-test in three weeks. The doctor said she wouldn't make me wait two months again. I'm having an ultrasound on Monroe (day after tomorrow) to see if there are some changes to my "thyroid bed". If I understood correctly, that's kinda' where my thyroid used to be. The doctor said no surgeon can remove all the tissue and maybe something is going on that would mean I'll still have to do radioactive iodine treatment but, I swear, I believe that whole test was somehow flawed.

I felt jittery, shaky, off balance, uncoordinated, etc. on Synthroid but my numbers were good.

On Armour I've felt pretty much normal with the exception of not having much energy...but...I honestly think I'm feeling better with the 90 mg dose.

I don't know if it's possible for lab tests to get messed up BUT the fact that webster2's doctor made her repeat a set of labs makes me think it's not impossible.

Needless to say, I'm anxious to be re-tested!


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## Enigma

Are you sure they aren't switching with generic Armour? My mom is on Armour and she REFILLED her Armour Rx and they gave her Acella. This wasn't a new Rx - she had several refills left, and all of her original ones were Armour. She felt really funny the whole day and couldn't figure out why. Then she looked at the meds when she got home and they WEREN'T Armour. She went to the pharmacy the next day and ripped them a new one for changing to generic. She got an Armour pill that morning and they had her normal Armour Rx filled by that afternoon. But she felt REALLY off the day she took the Acella. I wonder if this is happening across the country? Might want to double check your bottle or call your pharmacy and make sure they are putting the correct stuff in? Check this out as well... CVS filled children's flouride Rx's with breast cancer meds. Maybe your pharmacy is putting Acella in the Armour bottle?


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## I DClaire

Enigma said:


> Are you sure they aren't switching with generic Armour? My mom is on Armour and she REFILLED her Armour Rx and they gave her Acella. This wasn't a new Rx - she had several refills left, and all of her original ones were Armour. She felt really funny the whole day and couldn't figure out why. Then she looked at the meds when she got home and they WEREN'T Armour. She went to the pharmacy the next day and ripped them a new one for changing to generic. She got an Armour pill that morning and they had her normal Armour Rx filled by that afternoon. But she felt REALLY off the day she took the Acella. I wonder if this is happening across the country? Might want to double check your bottle or call your pharmacy and make sure they are putting the correct stuff in? Check this out as well... CVS filled children's flouride Rx's with breast cancer meds. Maybe your pharmacy is putting Acella in the Armour bottle?


I'll check but my prescription said no generic. The first time the PA brought my prescription to me at the doctor's office it didn't say no generic and I miraculously caught it and asked for one that said no generic. The PA seemed slightly disgruntled and said there was no generic for Armour and I didn't know whether there was or not but I knew I wanted the real deal.

I'll ask this afternoon. I've got to go to the pharmacy for something else and I'll inquire.

THANKS!


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## Brucergoldberg

Good point. Walgreens tried that shi7 on me twice. Went to go get naturethroid and they gave me armour twice. Thats great, and there is nothing bad with armour except IM NOT ON IT! they gave me the wrong stuff.


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## SnoodMama

Hi, IDClaire!!! I saw your post over on the thread I wrote and I could have sworn I replied to it.... but there's nothing there. Brain fog!!! I must have replied in my head!!! LOL.

Those last test results of yours are just insane!!!!! Maybe they really did switch your sample with someone else's. So you have to wait 3 weeks to repeat them???

So, do you totally discontinue the Synthroid when you switch to the armour or do you slowly transition? I can imagine it might just take a few months for your body to settle down to a new equilibrium with so many changes. I'm just glad you're feeling better and less jittery.

(((HUGS))) to you hun!!!!


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## I DClaire

SnoodMama said:


> Hi, IDClaire!!! I saw your post over on the thread I wrote and I could have sworn I replied to it.... but there's nothing there. Brain fog!!! I must have replied in my head!!! LOL.
> 
> Those last test results of yours are just insane!!!!! Maybe they really did switch your sample with someone else's. So you have to wait 3 weeks to repeat them???
> 
> So, do you totally discontinue the Synthroid when you switch to the armour or do you slowly transition? I can imagine it might just take a few months for your body to settle down to a new equilibrium with so many changes. I'm just glad you're feeling better and less jittery.
> 
> (((HUGS))) to you hun!!!!


SM, I took Synthroid right up until the day I started Armour and the ensuing three days were the best days I can remember in years. I half laughingly asked the endocrinologist if someone could take Synthroid and Armour and she said no!!

Today turned into the same dog and pony show most of my medical adventures inevitably become. I called the hospital before leaving home to be sure I knew where the outpatient radiology area was and they told me how to find them and to come straight there. I had orders from my doctor with me saying I'd been pre-registered. Mind you this is the same hospital where I had my surgery and the same hospital where I have my lab work. So, I get there and go directly to the radiology department.

One staff person asked me why I was there and told me to have a seat in a little waiting room...that was packed! Later someone else came along, asked me why I was there and then announced that I had to go back downstairs to Registration/Admitting. By now it was noon, R/A was packed, there was only one hospital staffer registering/admitting patients...so I waited almost an hour before my name was called.

THEN, this person (who kept hiccuping) told me my insurance information had somehow been deleted from my computer records. Oh lordy! She fiddled around for another 30 minutes doing something then printed a little ID bracelet for me and sent me back to Outpatient Radiology.

I sat back down in the cramped waiting room - directly beneath a TV set mounted on the wall. A staff person eventually came along and said she'd have to "go find someone" to do my thyroid ultrasound. Fifteen minutes or so later I woman came to get me.

As we were walking toward an exam room she said, "So, what kind of trouble are you having with your thyroid?" I told her I don't have a thyroid. She seemed irritated and then asked, "How are you supposed to get a thyroid ultrasound if you don't have a thyroid?" I told her I didn't know, I guessed she could call my doctor!

THEN...THEN...she realized Registration/Admitting had printed orders for me to have not one but TWO thyroid ultrasounds...so she had to make a huge production out of cancelling one of the orders.

My appointment was for 11:30 A.M. I first arrived at Outpatient Radiology at 11:05 A.M. before being sent to Registration/Admitting, etc. It was probably 1:15 P.M. before I finally got my thyroid ultrasound - which I seriously doubt lasted 5 minutes! The technician quickly moved the little wand up and down each side of my neck and announced that was it!

I drove home developing Excedrin Headache #1, ate a few bites of cold pizza and then slept 2 1/2 hours in my recliner!


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## Octavia

Geez, IDC...what a day! You SHOULD have gotten that second ultrasound thrown in for free after that wait!


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## I DClaire

Octavia said:


> Geez, IDC...what a day! You SHOULD have gotten that second ultrasound thrown in for free after that wait!


I really don't feel like I got a good first ultrasound, to tell you the truth!

My doctor said something (I did not understand at all) about the results of my Thyroglobulin Tumor Marker (?) might indicate new tissue growing or something and that could have played into how bizarre my latest test results were. She said I needed this ultrasound as a basis to compare other ultrasounds to for the next 5 years...and yet this technician acted like she had never heard of doing a thyroid ultrasound on a patient without a thyroid???

The ultrasounds I got over 3 1/2 years before I finally had surgery were a long, drawn out process. The technicians would go over and over and over that entire area repeatedly. I'm not kidding when I say this test today didn't last 5 minutes!

This test today took place practically right across the hall from where I got the strange lab results week before last. I've never doubted anything they've done until that last set of labs...now I feel kinda' worried about the level of thoroughness _or something. _


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