# Labs in, need interpretation & Input



## summerof42 (Dec 26, 2015)

Posted labs in 2015. I immediately started NatureThroid 3/4 grain hoping it would stop the hair loss; no such luck and I've lost so much more and embarrassed to be out in the sunlight.

Hair continues to fall out at same rate and no new growth; however, it did change my thryoid test results, but I'm still confused and fear I've gone from hypo to hyper and need your input.

And. . . OMG, when I think back when my massive hair shedding started in 2001 and the very first derm I saw at the well known and respected Froerdert Medical ALL iron tests were fine. I'm looking at the result right now and my ferritin was 18! TIBC high, low % saturation. do docs even look at the test results?

So I recently started taking an iron supplement by Thorne which contains Vitamin C and B12. The source of iron is iron bisglycinate 30 mg. I just don't know if I should take 1, 2 or 3 a day? I started with 1 capsule in the morning 4 hrs after taking NatureThroid.

Per the test results below, *do you feel I should reduce *the NatureThroid a grain? I*s TSH it getting too low and free T3 getting to high? *Please refer to previous post where you will see my TSH as been as high a 2.5 - 4.26 prior to taking NatureThroid.

Not sure what the Hemogram/Plat/Diff test results mean and I appear to have a few abnormal test results. Thank you kindly for your input.

TSH - 0.295 [0.350 - 5.000]

Free T3 - 4.5 - [2.2 - 4.0]

Free T4 - 0.9 [0.8 - 1.5]

Reverse 14.4 [9.0- 27.0]

Thyroglobulin Antibody <0.9 [ 0.0 - 4.0]

Thyroid Peroxidase - 43 [<60]

Vitamin D - 37.7 [30.0 - 100.0]

B12 - 325 [211 - 911]

*Iron Panel:*

Ferritin - 44 [8 - 252]

TIBC - 454 High [250-450] Previous test result 459

Iron Sat% - 13% Low [15% - 45%] Previous test result 10%

Iron - 75 [50 - 170] Previous test result: 44

*Hemogram Plat/Diff*

HCT - 46.9% [36.0 - 45.5]

MCHC - 31.1 [32.0 - 36.5] previous test shows abnormal reading of 30.8 low


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

YES! I feel you should reduce your Naturethroid dosage. Your Free T3 is too high. Did you ever try Synthroid? Or did you "skip" straight to Naturethroid? (It's generally one or the other, not both.)


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## summerof42 (Dec 26, 2015)

Never used anything besides the NatureThroid. Hairloss started around 2001 and I went on like this for over 13 yrs, losing over 60% of my hair. I had to bring in a plumber twice already to unplug the drains. I saw many docs from derms, endo's, internal MD's, ND's, etc, all too no avail. No one can give me a definitive answer or care about my shedding, even several yrs ago when my TSH reached 4.21 and ferritin down to 18.

I realize my hair is something aesthetic, but it's my body telling me something is amiss and it's so devastating. One male endo said, "your test results are fine, quit thinking your hair and go home and do the laundry." Really? I could have smacked him! One NP I saw just wanted me to buy over $400 worth of supplements at this office. Finally, when I was visiting a friend in AZ, I decided to try someone out there and she prescribed the NatureThroid. However, when I mentioned my new numbers after a yr on NatureThroid, she said my numbers are fine, and TSH could even be lower! I disagree which is why I came to this site. I'm scared and alone and having to self-treat. I fear I could be anemic but on one will listen. I just recently bought the iron tabs.

Would also like everyone's input regarding my iron test results and if I should be taking an iron supplement, and how many? I so greatly appreciate everyone's help and so grateful for this forum and all the wonderful folks here.


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

I have no doubt that losing that much hair is indeed devastating. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this.

The Naturethroid does not appear to be working well for you. Your Free T3 is way too high, and your Free T4 is too low. If those were my lab results, I would inquire about switching to Synthroid or generic Levothyroxine. You really, really need more T4 meds and less T3 meds.

And yes, your iron-related lab results stink, but I've never dealt with that issue myself, so I'll leave it to others to comment.

Your Vitamin D is also quite low. Are you supplementing?


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## summerof42 (Dec 26, 2015)

Hello Octavia:

Thank you for replying. Yes, after reviewing all my test results, I started supplementing with vitamin D.

I also forgot to mention I've completely lost the outer part of my brows as well, which I heard is indicative of thyroid issues. Here's where I get confused: Obviously, the NatureThroid had an impact on my thryoid, because the numbers for TSH, FT3, FT4, etc changed dramatically.

Question #1: If the NatureThroid is not working well for me, why did the NatureThroid have such an impact on my numbers?

Question #2: Am I am on too many grains and need to cut back?

Hopefully, I'll get some more replies and input regarding my iron as well.

Thank you kindly.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Naturethyroid IS working - your thyroid levels are just a tad high. When thyeoid moves hairloss is common. Since you were already experiencing hairloss - it in reality continued with the move upward of thyroid hormone.

D is definitely low. Mine was similar and I was prescribed 50K IU weekly, 1 pill for 12 weeks to get toward upper range. I now need to take 5K IU daily to maintain.

B-12 is low, should be toward higher end of range. Supplement with a sublingual.

Floridix is a liquid iron that is easy on the digestive track and easily absorbing. I had alot of issues supplementing to raise my ferritin and eventually had endo metrial ablation to stop monthly cycles.


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

Lovlkn said:


> Naturethyroid IS working - your thyroid levels are just a tad high. When thyeoid moves hairloss is common. Since you were already experiencing hairloss - it in reality continued with the move upward of thyroid hormone.


Lovlkn, I was thinking that the Naturethroid wasn't ideal for this poster because of the skewed T3 and T4 levels. If she decreases her dosage, her T4 will decrease even more, right? Or are you seeing it differently? (I certainly don't want to give bad advice.)


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Octavia said:


> Lovlkn, I was thinking that the Naturethroid wasn't ideal for this poster because of the skewed T3 and T4 levels. If she decreases her dosage, her T4 will decrease even more, right? Or are you seeing it differently? (I certainly don't want to give bad advice.)


It would be helpful based on your comments to see the original labs prior to starting the Nature thyroid. I've only taken synthetic so I am no expert on NDT. You may be right -

I know of people who've taken NDT and also had a low FT-4, lower than it should be and they supplemented with a low dose of T4 med's.

Summerof42, can you please edit your signature line and put labs prior to beginning Nature thyroid?

Click on your log in name, Profile, edit profile and on the left is signature.


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## summerof42 (Dec 26, 2015)

Hello Lovlkn & Octavia:

Previous labs below and also prior to taking NatureThroid. Once I get home, I'll also post the Free T4 prior results.

*Free T3*

Jul 2015 - 3.2 [range 2.2 -4.0]

Mar 2015 - 3.3 [same range]

Oct 2010 - 3.0 [same range]

*TSH*

Dec 2015 - 0.295 - [range 0.350 - 5.0] LOW

July 2015 - 0.346

Mar 2015 - 0.283

*Prior to taking NatureThroid*

3/5 - 3.02 -

2008 - 4.31 -

2003 - 1.46

FT4 0.9 [range 0.8 - 1.9]

RT3 - 213 [range 90-350]


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

Interesting. So prior to taking the Naturethroid, your Free T4 was very low (barely in range) and your Free T3 was around mid-range. When I see that, I conclude that you originally needed more T4, not necessarily more T3. Like Lovlkn above, I have only taken synthetic thyroid hormones, so I'm no expert on the desiccated hormones (Naturethroid is one), but my understanding is that the desiccated hormones give you a bigger boost in T3 than T4. This is the opposite of what you needed.

What you need seems to be T4. Your T3 wasn't bad originally. Then you started Naturethroid, and your T3 went very high (out of range), but your T4 didn't improve at all. My recommendation? Talk to your doctor about switching to a T4 drug such as Synthroid (or its generic equivalent, Levothyroxine) to get your Free T4 results up. Ideally, your Free T4 results should be at least at the midpoint for the range, if not a little higher. (Free T4 too high in range can lead to feeling hyper.)

Those of you who take NDTs, what do you think about this?


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

I believe Octavia is correct.

Since your FT-3 was already in decent range, a trial of T4 only medication would have been a better choice.



> Jul 2015 - 3.2 [range 2.2 -4.0]
> 
> Mar 2015 - 3.3 [same range]
> 
> Oct 2010 - 3.0 [same range]


Mid range is 3.10 and 3/4 of range is 3.55

http://endocrinediseases.org/thyroid/faq.shtml



> How do I keep my thyroid healthy?
> 
> A well balanced diet should include all the minerals needed to help support the function of the thyroid. Deficiencies in some minerals can contribute to thyroid issues (see below), but excess supplementation of these minerals is not recommended.
> 
> ...


I'm posting because your situation of low FT-4 and close to normal FT-3 is not "common". Were you taking large amounts of trace minerals? What's is interesting is your iron is low which should be impairing the conversion.

Can't recall if you have had TPO and TSI antibodies as well? Thyroglobulin and an ultrasound of your thyroid?


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## summerof42 (Dec 26, 2015)

Hello Lovlkn:

I know, I'm a strange bird. Not sure what "trace minerals" mans and since I don't know what it is, I definitely wasn't taking any. Below are some test results prior to taking NatureThroid. Very interesting indeed. I started NaureThroid around Apr 2014.

*Sept 2008*

TSH 0.82 [0.34 - 4.82]

Thyroglobuln Antibody 4.6 [0.0 - 14.4] Then iin Mar 2014 ,0.9 [0.0 - 4.0]

Thyroid Peroxidse 0.3 [0.0 - 9.0]

*Oct 2012*

FT3 - 3.0 [2.2 - 4.0]

FT4 - 1.0 [0.8 - 1.5]

TSH - 2.337 [0.350 - 5.0]

Thyroid Stimulating IG [whatever that is?] 101% [<122%]

*Mar 2014*

FT3 - 2.69 [2.50 - 4.30]

TSH - 3.02 [0.27 - 3.50]

Thyroglobulin Antibody 0.9 [0.0 - 4.0]

Thyroid Peroxidbase Ab 0.3 [0.0 - 9.0]

*Started on 1/4 grain NatureThroid in April of 2014, gradulaly increased to 3/4 grain which is what I'm presently taking. It appars to put me in Hyperthyroid state and I need to cut back. Correct? *

*Aug 2014*

TSH 0.31 [0.27 - 4.2]

FT3

FT4 - 1.2 [0.93 - 1.7] note 1.3 prior to taking NatureThroid

*Mar 2015*

TSH - 0.283 [0.350 - 5.0] LOW

FT4 - 0.9 [0.8 - 1.5]

FT3 - 3.3 [2.2 - 4.0]

*July 2015*

FT4 - 0.9 same range as above

FT3 - 3.2 same range as above

*Dec 2015*

TSH 0.295 [same range as above] LOW

FT4 - 0.9 [same range as above] HIGH

FT3 - 4.5 [same range as above HIGH

Thyroglobulin Antibody 0.9 [0.0 - 4.0]

Thyroid Peroxidbase Ab 43 [range <60]


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

http://www.mayomedicallaboratories.com/test-catalog/Clinical+and+Interpretive/8634

Good link explaining antibodies.



> Thyroid Stimulating IG [whatever that is?] 101% [<122%]


With the presence of both TSI and TPO antibodies, your blocking antibodies are reflected in your labs, showing you as hypo on TSH and FT-4, yet with a somewhat normal FT-3.

Has your doctor ever mentioned Graves disease to you? Someone with TSI antibodies will usually receive the Graves DX. You are not symptomatic for Graves today, however, blocking and stimulating antibodies can change swiftly so at times they can actually cancel eachother out ( I personally experienced this ) or allow you to go hypo or allow you to go hyper.

RAI uptake would confirm. Have they ever offered this? How about Ultrasound because of having thyroglobulin antibodies?

It may be hard for you to stabilize and feel well on replacement med's since you still have your thyroid having the TSI and also TPO antibodies, and all the blocking and stimulating antibodies that go along with it.

TSI of 0 means you are in remission, any TSI in the blood is not normal and reflective of Graves disease aka hyperthyroid. YOu may want to ask for another TSI test since it's been awhile.


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## summerof42 (Dec 26, 2015)

I can't get my doc to talk about my thyroid, let alone TSI. He said all results are fine and with the latest TSH and T4/T3 coming in abnormal, he said I need to stop taking the NatureThroid; this was prescribed by the ND I saw in Arizona and she said my numbers are fine. Even the endo I saw said my test results are fine? I just don't know where to turn.

I do have a question about the TSI which is probabaly why they won't discuss. The result is in the normal range of below 122%, so Im confused when you indicate I have antibodies. Is that because there was a percentage there and a healthy individual would test as 0%?

If ANYONE on this forum knows of an exceptional good Doc in the Midwest, please let me know! Actually, I'm also willnig to hop on plane and go anywhere in the US provding they are worth the trip and knowledable. So referrals are so greatly appreciated. Thank you!

Sad part is, I've been dealing with this for over 14 yrs and I could have saved a lot of hair if I managed to find the right doc.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

> I just don't know where to turn.


Good thyroid doctors are few and far between, especially in the trying to figure out exactly what is happening stage you are still in. Nobody ever comes on raving about how great their doctor is. Trial and error and walking in as educated as you can be about what you need or want is your best chance at surviving in a full capacity with thyroid disease.

I had an OK endo, although she kept me hypo , really hypo. I had Graves and hyper symptoms. Hyper to hypo in a matter of 3 months, thought I was losing my mind. So as good as she was, it was not good once I charted all my labs and her treatment recommendations and saw how she kept me hypo - for 4.5 years. Eventually I was tired of anti thyroid med's and opted to have my thyroid removed, rather than RAi .

A friend who is married to a surgeon and a anesthetist referred me to my surgeon. The surgeon was wonderful, left me with a 3/4 " scar and no negative effects from my surgery. I've referred several people to her.

Excellent GP's and Endo's are harder to identify. Post TT I went to 3 endo's ( all wanted to dose me on TSH only) and 2 MD's who let me experiment with T4 as well as T3 hormones post TT, before finding my current MD, I walked into his office taking exactly what I am taking 6 years later. He "works with me, yet calls my T4 and T3 replacement med's "unconventional". I see him 2 X a year because he makes me and life is good.

Not having a thyroid is the best decision I have made in my thyroid journey,



> I do have a question about the TSI which is probabaly why they won't discuss.


You will need to keep looking until you find a doctor that will.


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

What is a city close to you? I downloaded a "good doc" list from Stop the Thyroid Madness a while back and there maybe some options on there I could pm you.


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## summerof42 (Dec 26, 2015)

HI Jenny:

Your so sweet, thank you! I looked a that site for doc recommendation and there's link within links, i.e., sign up for google, email broda barnes, etc, but not a list provided? I live near the Milwaukee, Wisconsin area.

I wish his site had a Doc remmendation link as I would really like to see a doc which folks referred and I'm not in for any surprises. I guess this is something most folks with thyroid issues are dealing with and I need to get lucky and find a good one. I'm sure they're out there, but I haven't found him/her yet. Grrrr!


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

I have the list saved on my computer at home, so I'll look it up tonight after work. I signed up for one of their groups, downloaded the list and then left the group, lol.


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