# Hormones - Anger Issues - Need Help



## Viv22

Hi

I'm not sure if anyone can help. I am a 40 year old woman. Recently diagnosed with Hashimotos (last June) - ultra scan detected several small nodules, off the scale thyroid antibodies etc etc. Apparently I've had it for years and I had quite a rocky road getting to a fairly healthy place where I am now.

Last week I had a blood test and "no action is required" so I guess this means that I am now finally on the right dose. I take 75 mg Levothyroxine one day and then 100 mg the next day and alternate accordingly.

I exercise regularly and try and eat healthily - my energy levels could be better and I have not lost any weight whatsoever since starting medication in June. I went through a phase of eating only soups once a day and this seemed to have some healing properties but I didn't lose an ounce. Very frustrating. I would like to lose about 10 kg which is what I weighed before I suddenly piled on weight despite going to the gym 5 times a week.

My problem is that I find I am so quick to anger - my hormones are constantly up and down. I feel like a lunatic sometimes. I wish I could feel more balanced. The other day, I found my mood drop (this happens every now and then) - I felt very depressed but I know that this is hormone related - I can feel it! This feeling picked up slightly but now I find that I fly off the handle for the smallest of things and I don't want to be this way. Is there anyone who has been through anything similar and is there anything I can do to address this? I'm sure my lovely, sweet and calm husband is going to get fed up with me soon if I continue on this path. I am sick of me!!!

I am planning to see the doctor in the New Year but I suspect he is going to tell me I am depressed and send me for counselling or something. GPs do not understand Hashimoto's.

I really need help and advice.

Thank you.


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## Andros

Sadly, anger can big a huge part of a hormone imbalance. In particular the thyroid.

Do a Google search of Psychiatric manifestations of Hashimoto's!

I am sorry to hear you are suffering so but very glad you have joined this board.

Also, it is important to know where your TSH, FREE T3 and FREE T4 is at. If you have recent results for these, please post and include the ranges.

Welcome!


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## Lovlkn

Do you have any recent labs with ranges you could share?


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## Viv22

I think I had some sort of anxiety attack last night. This has never happened to me before. I'm having heart palpitations so am at the hospital getting things checked out.


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## Viv22

Very frustrating - no issues apparently. Thyroid function test results are:

Free T4 - 18.4 (10.3 - 24.5)

TSH - 0.70 (0.4 - 5.5)

FT3 - 4 (3.5 - 6.5)


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## Andros

Hmmmmmmmm! Thanks for posting the results and ranges. The numbers look good but I think it might be a good idea for you to get TSI and Trab tests. You may be leaning towards hyperthyroid. Antibodies can do this sort of thing; so can low ferritin.

And..............................have you had an ultra-sound of your thyroid? The paste feature is not working for some of us so you will have to Google the above antibodies. But maybe not. You may already know what they are.

Hugs,


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## Prudence

I second that, have you had TSI checked? It might be good to get a lot of hormones checked as well, plus vitamins, since thyroid problems can mess up everything and send you out of whack. You might also want to look into an uptake scan for your thyroid. With my Graves', my labs would be decent/borderline, but my scans showed just how overactive my thyroid actually was.


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## Swimmer

http://justravelingthrough.blogspot.com/p/thyroid-nutritious-diet-recommended-by.html

Hi Viv, actually it sounds like we have some similarities in that I just found out I have Hashimoto's in September, I also was having VERY strange emotions run over - I felt the anxiety in my being - that was like in the summer, and the sides of my neck were heating up, I kept up the fitness (training for for a 24-hour walking relay) and really I pushed myself right over the top into what I might call (probably incorrectly call) but I would call it a hypothyroid storm (that's probably not correct.) I will tell you, I went on massive rest, I totally changed my diet, and completely stopped exercise. EVERY SINGLE DAY I RESTED. You already have the thyroid hormones, so other than getting your doc to let you try armour thyroid, I would encourage you to consider eating similar to the way that I ate (for massive nutrition) cut way down on fitness for the moment (like work on restoring adrenals) cut down on the coffee if you drink it, make sure you get lots of rest, sleep and nourishment. Give yourself permission to rest every day. Let me know if you want the info on what I ate. (It came from a naturopath office on thyroid nourishment.)


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## Viv22

Thank you all for your input - it is much appreciated. I am going to try and see my GP tomorrow to get him to refer me to another specialist.

One thing that I changed over the last few weeks is that I started taking 200 selenium - which I thought was meant to help matters but the hospital doctor told me to stop taking it as it may be the reason I am having a bad effect.

Swimmer, I would appreciate your advice on nutrition. I think about this all the time but I think diet is the hardest thing to change. How can I not have a glass of red to unwind. How do I live without sugar and gluten?! How do I live without exercise?! I was practically raised in boarding school and have always been programmed to eat what is in front of me so I find this so difficult to get my head around.

Last night and this morning has really shaken me up. I have felt so depressed and anxious - I have never had an anxiety attack before (I don't think). I can still feel my heart palpitating but am told there is nothing wrong with me. I was beginning to think that I was levelling out.


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## Swimmer

http://justravelingthrough.blogspot.com/p/thyroid-nutritious-diet-recommended-by.html

Hi Viv, I wrote just about everything down and I tried to include it in the link above -- I'll try and include it here -- for some reason the way to add links on here doesn't seem to work -- you need to do what your doc tells you, for me -- this helped greatly (along with thyroid hormone. Hang in there and personally I think rest and nutrition is key in addition to thyroid hormone in the right dose.) I want to add, I'm not sure that for you, that cutting down on exercise is the right answer, but for me, rest, nutritious foods, light to zero exercise was best - along with armour thyroid. Now that I've had three months of rest, (December would be month #4 but I can't really count December because it was too swamped!) Now I'm beginning to lightly incorporate fitness back into my lifestyle - carefully.


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## Viv22

I saw my GP today. He lends a sympathetic ear and I give him my shopping list of "investigations" and "what to do". He tells me that unfortunately there is no cure for PMS (hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm) - I am 2 weeks into the cycle. He has arranged for estrogen tests - one at day 5 and one at day 21.

I tell him I have felt depressed lately, lacking energy and am having palpitations and he prescribes me a Serotonin drug - Venlafaxine and tells me it will help with the adrenals too.

I took one tablet this morning. I then googled reviews and got such a fright. The problem is not taking the pills, it's coming off them. I definitely don't need any further aggression or brain zaps. Now I do understand that there will be some interference with the brain but I am not sure I want to put up with it to that extent. I then googled best natural seratonin and it brings up 5 HTP. So I google reviews and it's reaction with Levothyroxine and all seem happy so I went and bought that at lunch and intend to start taking that tomorrow. I really hope something works.

I am sitting at work and feel as if I am about to have a heart attack. I am feeling nauseas too. I don't know what to do. Am I hyper/hypo - blood tests are perfect!!! I'm thinking should I should reduce tablets slightly to stop my heart racing but then again I am also displaying hypo signs. Dry hair that is now curling, depression, etc.

When I suggested that the GP refers me to another Endo - he tells me - as you saw from the last time, they don't take Hashimoto's very seriously. This is sad but true. So here I am. I feel awful and I don't know where to go and what to do. Surely this is not the way my life is going to be from hereon. Am I crazy?


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## Viv22

Here are my autoantibody tests from July

Anti-TPO Antibodies: 890 (0-150 U/ml)

Anti-Thyroglobulin Abs: 206 (0-150 U/ml)


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## CA-Lynn

Viv:

NO ONE BUT A BOARD CERTIFIED PSYCHIATRIST SHOULD EVER PRESCRIBE ANTI-DEPRESSANTS. TOO MANY GP'S OUT THERE WHO HAND THEM OUT LIKE M&M'S. They are clueless as to all the effects......


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## Viv22

I'm wondering if I am suffering from Hashitoxicosis. This has happened to me once before (about 6 months ago) and I took an ambulance to the hospital but after doing an ECG and Thyroid Function Test they told me that there was nothing wrong with me and it was all "hormone" related - I felt like I was going to die from the palpitations, nausea and related symptoms. I had terrible fatigue and my eyes were dry and twitchy.

Although my TF test is perfect for the first time, I have 2 antibodies and never been checked for the third (TSI). I asked my GP to test my TSI but he told me he has to refer me to a specialist to get that done. I have an appointment next Thursday - one day at a time I suppose... I do not feel well at all. My heart is still racing but apparently all is well according to the medical world. I guess I'm just going to have to accept that I am a lunatic from hereon... I never used to be. I've gone from very occasionally losing my temper (once a month) to my blood boiling many times a day. I am irritable, impatient - I really am not a very nice person sometimes. I used to be laid back. I guess that is never going to happen again.

I left a note for the GP this evening saying to him that I investigated the anti-depressants he prescribed and I am terrified to take them. I told him that the last thing I need is to be more aggressive - hell, I will end up in jail at this rate.

I wish I new one medical specialist in London who could really help me (that I could afford - I am on BUPA too). Nobody seems to know anything about Hashimoto's, let alone Hashitoxicosis. Just thinking out loud - I might get lucky and someone will miraculously point me in the right direction.

The GP asked me this morning where I get all my information from and I told him from forums with people who suffer from it as I don't know a living soul who is knowledgeable about it (and that includes him but I didn't directly say that)...


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## Andros

Yes; "if" you are indeed hyper, Selenium may exacerbate your symptoms.

You can live w/o these things. Many of us do and we are exceedingly happy and doing quite well.

We are here for you and will help you do what you need to do as best as we can from afar.

The "trick" is to only do one thing at a time so as to not become overwhelmed and also to be a good scientist. This way, you know what worked and how it worked.

Hugs,


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## surge

I'm sorry you're having such a struggle. I felt like I had hashistoxicosis when my antibodies were high. It was also really hard to medicate me when the antibodies were up. For me, it really did help to stop eating wheat-- it's not an allergy so I don't have to be as vigiliant as a celiac sufferer-- ie I still eat the oats, and don't have to ask to keep everything separate at restaurants. I also had my copper IUD removed and made sure I was only drinking out of glass bottles. Three months later and I don't have any heart palps and my hair has finally stopped falling out (whew), which is to say, it might be worth elminating wheat to see. If you do eliminate wheat, do so for at least 6 weeks.

Last November, I had my thyroid out and that made medicating me easier-- I don't have the antibodies anymore and I can tolerate the meds. This helped a lot, but the final piece for me was removing gluten and limiting metal exposure while I was healing. I


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## Viv22

Surge, I started taking selenium which is meant to lower your antibodies but this (or something else) seemed to have the opposite effect. This is all so confusing. My heart is starting to slow down again and I guess I am about to swing the other way again. I am due to see the specialist on Thursday - I really hope this guy knows his stuff - I wish I could see someone at the time so that they could identify what is happening. Have you had your thyroid removed?

Thank you for the tips everyone - I am noting all commments. Your input is much appreciated.


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## Viv22

Quick question - Surge, how do you know when your antibodies are high? In the UK they are not happy to do recurring blood tests for these, so every time I have an issue, they will do a basic thyroid function test, which is not very helpful. Even if I specifically ask them to test them, they won't do it.


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## CA-Lynn

They don't do repeated antibodies tests in the states either.

Probably not prudent to keep running the antibodies tests because there may be a lag in the results and the actual symptoms presented.


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## Viv22

Quick update. I saw the specialist last night and he told me that I have high blood pressure. He does not believe that my problems are thyroid related and I am undergoing strenuous testing over the next few days for 2 things - Cushings and Pheochromocytoma. Both are adrenal related. I should know in a couple of weeks. I had to beg him to test my TSI to put my mind at rest. Should have results in a few weeks.


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## Airmid

I've had doctors go back and forth for years on what my thyroid was and was not causing. Rather annoying when one group says it's my thyroid and the other groups says it's not.

I can also tell you that even when my thyroid was controlled I still had problems with having too much estrogen. Endometriosis runs on both sides of my family however, and thrives on estrogen. Estrogen and thyroid hormones have a unique relationship and there is probably a key in there for why women with Endometrioisis are at higher risk of developing Hashi's. I'm not saying you have this, just personal experience. Your hormones could still be off and it might be wise to have panels done. A good doctor will do it over a series of 3-4 weeks to watch your natural fluctuation. It might be worth checking.

I'm surprised he's going after that to be honest, but at least he's taking you serious which is always nice.


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## Madison Marie

Hello,

My heart goes out to you in your situations because mine is quite similar. My mood swings are off the charts. I can't handle one simple setback without melting down as though the world is going to end. I often wonder how long my boyfriend will be willing to handle my anger and crying spells. It used to be that I only got really bad right before my period, but now it seems that simply having a vagina is enough to set me off. So please don't feel alone. You are not crazy, as much as you might joke that you are.

Your body is under siege, or so your immune system things. Your hormones are all over the place. It will be up to you to piece things together bit by bit until you get the magic combination everyone refers to as feeling normal. You will have to experiment on yourself a bit, become a pro at communication with your doctors and advocating for yourself, and maybe pray a bit.

If I were you, my first line of action would be investigating the results of your ultrasound. Is there anything there that they find suspicious? This is where I am in the process right now. If I get the all clear, meaning I don't have cancer, I will move on to other areas of testing. I have heard that going gluten free can bring down your antibodies. Selenium has been reported to do so as well, though I prefer to consume this in foods rather than as a supplement. For some, getting their thyroid removed has been the only way for them to control the antibodies.

Once you are hard at work trying to bring down those anti-bodies, you can figure out which hormone replacement and how much will be best for you. This will take more trial and error. If you are struggling on replacement hormones, there are many other factors to look into. How are your adrenals? a 24-hour saliva cortisol test can help you get to the bottom of that. What about iron, vitamins b12, d3, magnesium, etc. Have you had all of the proper iron tests?

I know it is all overwhelming, but you just have to prioritize and take everything one step at a time. And read read read. I have become almost OCD in my need to find more information regarding this condition and what I can try to get back to feeling like myself. If I thought that blending cockroaches in my nutribullet while giving myself a gogurt enima would fix my problems, I'd do it right now. Unfortunately, I don't believe that treatment has been approved yet 

Anyhow, my point is, I know you feel awful because I feel it too. Just slow it down and bite off what you can chew. Steer clear of antidepressants unless you and a trained phych truly believe you need it. Use your free time to take in all of the resources provided to us by Dr. Internet and let that information guide you in understanding your condition. I wish you the best of luck, and please feel free to ask questions and vent your frustrations.


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## Swimmer

Wondering if you are on or off gluten?


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## Airmid

Swimmer said:


> Wondering if you are on or off gluten?


While it is all the health craze now to hate gluten, the vast majority of people can process it just fine.

Hashi patients do have a higher incidence of Celiac's Disease though one has to wonder if it's just the chronic inflammation from an over-active autoimmune response over the years. That doesn't mean that all Hashi's patients will get Celiac's Disease or that there's a benefit to be had to cutting gluten completely out of their diet.

If anyone suspects they may have or are starting to have problems with gluten I highly encourage you to talk to your doctor for a simple blood test to see what's up. Do not go gluten free then do a blood test as it will be wasted, coming back as a false negative as your body no long has to make antibodies since you cut the allergen out. You will be asked to add gluten back to your diet over a series of weeks (meaning you may not feel so hot in the process) and then be retested so it is worth your while just to be tested at the start.


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## Viv22

Thanks all for your responses - I consider everything people are saying. Last week, this "attack" feeling lifted and went away. 6 months ago, I went through the same thing for a few weeks. It's horrible. Is this what an auto-immune attack is?

I've been tested for Celiacs and apparently I have no problems. I do notice reactions to certain wheat based foods, where my stomach literally flips but I was raised "eating what was put in front of me" so I keep going on. I also notice that if I drink milk, my stomach gets upset.

I am seeing a Dietician in the next few weeks who is going to deal with the IBS issues but is also an expert with Celiacs and auto-immune disease, which is a bonus.

I am also still holding on for the Pheochromcytomo test results and I'm having the second blood test for Estrogen next Monday.

I have seen so many specialists and doctors now - I am at the end of my tether. All tests so far have come back normal. I feel like a hypochondriac. Wow - if this is what normal feels like, then I have no hope for the future.

I just feel so depressed and unhappy. I know I wasn't this unbalanced before and I don't want to carry on this way.


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## Danniswirl

Swimmer what you experienced was an adrenal crash not a thyroid storm. Viv, research all you can on adrenal fatigue. I don't know if you have this but a salva test for adrenals might be in store. Also you must eliminate gluten to get well. You may have to eliminate sugar as well. You also need to get bloodwork on ferritin, b12, Vit D to start. Get your ducks in a row. Check out stopthethyroidmadness.com. Do your research and don leave your health in your doctors hands only!


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## Danniswirl

Airmid, I was tested negative for Celiac, but I still have gluten intolerance. Point blank these test are useless for diagnosing everyone. Do your homework Viv, especially if you have stomach issues, which most of us with hashi have. Gluten is no good for anyone who has an autoimmune disease no matter if society is just starting to realize it or not. It makes me angry that it took this long. It also makes me angry when you express that you eat gluten free, people look at you like your just jumping on that bandwagon phase or trend, but in reality your fighting or your life. It is not a cure all, but it is a piece of the puzzle in recovery.


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## Swimmer

Hi Danniswirl, the way the gluten thing was explained to me, is that this particular problem is a "cousin" of celiac, but celiac shows up negative and regular gluten sensitivity may show up negative. You may have no gastrointestinal symptoms. This is a problem with gliadin and gluten - this is the particular one that can be a trigger in Hashimoto's that some people aren't aware of. The test for this is a stool test at "Meridian Valley Labs" it's $164 and you don't need a doc to order it. The naturopath there (a Harvard graduate and more) is the one who actually had the test created years ago, because there wasn't one. He's one of the top naturopaths probably on the West Coast, he's the well-known founder of the Tahoma Clinic that was raided for B VITAMINS back in the 1990's-- He has actually seen Hashimoto's disappear after some specific help - took 1-2 years. The person technically still has the autoimmune condition as I understand it - IF the triggers are reintroduced -- but removing all triggers has helped some to have the condition disappear.

I have a radio clip on his Hashimoto's protocol. That's what I'm asking my doc to help me follow (in addition to using armour thyroid.) I'm hoping to post his radio clip soon.

I've believed my adrenals were involved, I've had four months of rest and nourishment from a special thyroid diet and more, I'm feeling better and better. One of the top suggestion for adrenals is actually rest, laying on your back is supposed to be good as well... I know there are other helps -- but there are juiced oranges, liver, all sorts of help that are found on a special thyroid naturopath diet (similar to Ray Peat) that were so helpful for me. As well, I'm sure mine was a kind of thyroid storm, as my thyroid increased in size -- the thyroid was absolutely involved, and the labs show the attack as well.

While Stop the Thyroid Madness has surely some good and helpful info, after being on their yahoo group, it looks to me like there's a group of people on there going to everyday people experienced with thyroid suffering & help -- and asking & receiving advice. It looks to me like moderators are dispensing treatment suggestions for people they don't even know -- Looks actually quite dangerous to me, as I see people getting Q's answered with iodine treatments and more... I'd rather go and see the hollistic MD's & get help from someone who has seen me, knows medicine and how the body works, and isn't just throwing out the advice that worked for "some people." Some of their advice is good and fine -- but they are not the end all, and they don't know it all, while helping some, I think they might be hurting some. I prefer to take the good advice they offer and show it to the doctor and get the help that works for me. It's one thing to read information and take it to the doctor or ND. It's altogether a different boat to receive information from people who aren't medically trained - neither MD or ND and receive their dispensed info to someone who they've never even checked out medically and they are giving 'one size fits all' responses. It turns out that iodine and NDT may not be the answer for everyone -- I think there's some potentially hazardous things going on - on that yahoo group.


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## Airmid

Danniswirl said:


> Airmid, I was tested negative for Celiac, but I still have gluten intolerance. Point blank these test are useless for diagnosing everyone. Do your homework Viv, especially if you have stomach issues, which most of us with hashi have. Gluten is no good for anyone who has an autoimmune disease no matter if society is just starting to realize it or not. It makes me angry that it took this long. It also makes me angry when you express that you eat gluten free, people look at you like your just jumping on that bandwagon phase or trend, but in reality your fighting or your life. It is not a cure all, but it is a piece of the puzzle in recovery.


They can point to a problem. Only a GI scope and biopsy can give the definitive diagnosis.

How do you know you have an intolerance to gluten and not something else? You cut a number of things out of your diet, any number of which you may have had a problem with.

And thanks I have done my homework since I am potentially in the process of developing this. Blaming problems with the immune system partially on gluten without actual science is jumping to conclusions.


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## Swimmer

Hi Airmid, a GI scope is not needed for a gluten sensitivity test, I'm going to see if I can copy and paste from a well-known hollistic MD (attended Harvard), Dr. Jonathan Wright. Checking out his website and radio show could be very helpful. He's on the West Coast and has a lab called Meridian Valley labs, he had the test created a number of years ago - here is the scoop:

"Mistaken identity leads to misdiagnosis

Celiac disease - triggered by gliadin, a gluten protein - almost always features very notable gastro-intestinal symptoms, including bloating, gas, diarrhea, abdominal pain, and cramping. In medical school, we were told that celiac disease without gastro-intestinal symptoms was rare to non-existent. We were also told that if an intestinal biopsy that appeared normal meant there was no gluten sensitivity at all.

By contrast, gluten sensitivity (now research-differentiated from celiac disease) often has no gastro-intestinal symptoms at all. To make matters worse, intestinal biopsies in individuals with gluten sensitivity are often normal.

A recent research publicationi summarizes other differences between celiac disease and gluten sensitivity. The researchers wrote: "Unlike celiac disease, gluten sensitivity is not associated with increased intestinal permeability, in fact, [intestinal permeability] was significantly reduced in gluten sensitivity compared with controls."

The researchers pointed out that compared with healthy individuals, certain immune markers (for the technically inclined, IL-6 and IL-21) were elevated in celiac disease but not in those with gluten sensitivity, while another immune marker (TLR 2) was elevated in gluten sensitivity but not in celiac disease.

However, the two problems did share one similarity: lower levels of the immune marker FOXP3 when compared with healthy individuals.

These researchers concluded: "This study shows that the two gluten-associated disorders, celiac disease and gluten sensitivity, are different clinical entities&#8230;and it contributes to the characterization of gluten sensitivity as a condition associated with&#8230;absence of detectable changes in [the intestinal] mucosal barrier."

Why bother pointing out these differences between gluten sensitivity and celiac disease? It's because even many physicians don't know that it's possible to be sensitive to gluten with minimal if any gut symptoms, so they don't even look for gluten as a relatively common cause of non-gastrointestinal symptoms and illnesses, many of them autoimmune." - excerpt from Dr. Jonathan Wright - http://www.faim.org/autoimmune/root-cause-autoimmune-disease.html

This is only a portion of the article, there's more to read.

He is the founder of the Tahoma Clinic, http://www.tahomaclinic.com/

and he has a radio show called "Green Radio" in which he helps people over the phone -- (these consultations on the radio are free... But VERY VALUABLE - it costs MONEY to see him!) Also, if you're going to have the test, you must have consumed gluten, you can call the lab to determine when --

Dr. Wright, MD answers:

Testing for gluten sensitivity Sensitivity screening

Q: After reading some of your articles on gluten sensitivity, I'm wondering if it could be related to how I've been feeling lately. How can I find out if I am in fact sensitive to gluten?

Dr. Wright: The most sensitive and specific blood test for gluten/gliadin sensitivity that's presently available is called the tissue transgluaminase (tTG) test. It's the one I've used since it became available. Others include the endomysial antibodies (EMA) test and the antigliadin antibodies (AGA) test. These two screening techniques check for specific antibodies produced in the body after ingesting grains. The EMA tests measures mostly "short-lived" antibodies and the AGA test checks "longer-lived" antibodies. Keep in mind, though, that you will not have antibodies to anything you haven't previously been exposed to. So if you've been avoiding all gluten grains, the test will be negative even if you are truly gluten sensitive. - See more at: http://wrightnewsletter.com/2012/01/30/testing-gluten-sensitivity/#sthash.i6keRtOI.dpuf


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## Swimmer

Here are Dr. Wright's Credentials:

Dr. Jonathan V. Wright Pioneering a New Kind of MedicineJonathan V. Wright, M.D. has degrees from both Harvard University (cum laude) and the University of Michigan. More than any other doctor, he practically invented the modern science of applied nutritional biochemistry and he has advanced nutritional medicine for nearly three decades. Thousands of doctors respect Dr. Wright as the author of the best-selling Book of Nutritional Therapy and Guide to Healing with Nutrition, as well as other classics in the field.Millions of Americans first learned about natural medicine through Dr. Wright's regular columns in Prevention (1976-1986) and Let's Live (1986-1996) magazines.In addition, for nearly 30 years, Dr. Wright and his colleague, Alan Gaby, M.D., have been building an archive of natural healing science unique in all the world. Today it includes nearly every major study on the subject ever published in over 350 medical journals over the past 35 years...plus every pertinent study published in 50 major journals since 1920.Dr. Wright is also credited with introducing the nutritional remedy for benign prostate disease (BPH)&#8230;the first successful treatment to reverse macular degeneration&#8230;the safe medical use of DHEA therapy&#8230;natural hormone replacement therapy for women&#8230;and many other revolutionary natural cures.He is President Emeritus of the National Health Federation and has served on the Board of Directors of Bastyr University, The Life Extension Foundation, the American Preventive Medical Association, and other important medical institutions.Yet he regards all the above as secondary to his family medical practice. For more than 35 years, he has devoted his talents to helping heal many thousands of patients. Combining the most advanced new natural techniques with the best in traditional medicine, he takes a truly holistic approach. As of today, Dr. Wright has received over 40,000 patient visits at his now-famous Tahoma Clinic in Washington State.Dr. Wright's medical seminars are recognized internationally as the #1 educational resource for physicians who want to learn nutritional medicine. In concert with his colleague Dr. Gaby, he has taught his breakthrough remedies to over 3,500 medical doctors, nurses, and other health professionals to date.Now, a special presentation introduces many of Dr. Wright's most urgent natural remedies&#8230; for cancer, diabetes, joint pain and much more. It comes from Christine O'Brien, the Associate Publisher of Dr. Wright's monthly Nutrition & Healing newsletter - and it's free to watch. Just click below to watch Dr. Wright's special presentation. - See more at: http://wrightnewsletter.com/about/#sthash.1CppdhFD.dpuf


*Natural Medicine's LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT AWARD* is just the latest in a long list of honors bestowed upon Jonathan V. Wright, M.D. by forward-thinking fellow doctors. He's President Emeritus of the National Health Federation and has served on the Board of Directors of Bastyr University, The Life Extension Foundation, the American Preventive Medical Association and other important institutions. And lately he's been appointed Trustee of Harbor View Hospital in Seattle--the only "level 1" trauma center in the American northwest states of Washington, Idaho, Montana, and Alaska.
*He has degrees from Harvard University (cum laude) and the University of Michigan,* but unlike some "gurus," he doesn't like or need to trumpet his academic credentials...
*Because his medical breakthroughs speak for themselves.* He's the doctor who introduced bio-identical hormone replacement therapy for women. Developed the first successful treatment to reverse macular degeneration...
*More than 3,000 doctors, nurses and other health professionals* have taken the famous seminars taught by Dr. Wright and his colleague, Alan Gaby, M.D., acclaimed as the #1 educational resource for physicians who want to learn nutritional medicine...
*Yet for Dr. Wright, all the above is secondary* to his family medical practice. At his world- acclaimed Tahoma Clinic, he's received over 35,000 patient visits, from people who have come from as far away as Brazil, France, Japan and Thailand.


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## Danniswirl

Thank you Swimmer for all the information! I will definitely read it! Airmid I know I have issues with gluten by how much better I felt removing it from my diet. My body does not like it! The issues were tremendous on gluten. Viv, do your homework and pray for direction because putting all your trust in doctors is not the answer. While there are very good NP's out there they are not "God" and I believe that your health needs to be a joint effort. Viv, it is overwhelming and I know you want to feel better quickly, but it is a process. I have found that the yahoo groups have helped me make educated decisions.


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## Danniswirl

Good info Swimmer!


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## Swimmer

Thanks Danni, for me, I read (for months) about people having gluten problems and the association with Hashimoto's Thyroiditis. But my gut is happy, I don't have any GI problem to suggest that it is a problem for me. So when I finally was able to talk with Dr. Wright, (I didn't even mention the gluten association), yet Gluten & gliadin were #1 on the list of triggers for Hashi's. He explained (without me even asking) that you won't necessarily even have any GI symptoms, that celiacs comes up negative and as well as gluten on blood tests - negative. Yet with the proper stool test, as long as you have ingested the gluten within a reasonable amount of time (call lab to see what that is) it can show up. Then apparently, it is closely related to an issue of an ingredient found in dairy, and that If your test shows up positive on the stool test, that omitting dairy is the #2 thing that he mentioned, that thing in dairy being a hashi's trigger.

I'll list here from the discussion:

My notes from what Dr. Wright said:

Hashimoto's is autoimmune. There are things that trigger it.

#1. Hidden gluten - does not give us GI distress. Cousin of celiac. Stool test at Meridian Valley Lab. (omit gluten)

#2. If you have that problem, then something inside of milk (don't know what it's called -- might be casein but don't want to misquote him.) (omit dairy)

#3. Trigger: H. Pilori (I think it's called helobacter - but check me on that.) (Can be discovered by lab test)

#4 Some may be found to have - Poor absorption of nutrients. A person gets malnourished. Are they absorbing well? (To recover, they have IV nutrients) Can be tested through blood & hair.

#5. in women -- the ratio of estradiol/estriol -- make more estriol - respect natures range - autoimmune women do better at (high?) end of range.

#6. In Europe, found virus may be a factor. Selenium inhibits this virus.

#7. PABA -- must be administered under a doctors care.

Dr. Wright has seen a worst case scenario of Hashi's -- it took 1-2 years until that person, under proper treatment, does not have it anymore. Period.

Now I suppose if you add back in the triggers -- since it is autoimmune, I'm guessing that it would show up again.

My understanding is that he has seen it disappear on multiple occasions -- I don't know if it is "always" and I don't know that people stick close to the protocol. But hey it's worth a shot!

Blessings & take care Danni 

Swimmer


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## CA-Lynn

Regarding Wright:

He was suspended from practicing medicine in 2013.

He only got his undergraduate from Harvard. He did NOT get his medical degree from there.

He and his "clinic" are listed on "Quackwatch."


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## CA-Lynn

Regarding gluten:

I have a whole bunch of autoimmune diseases and have no problem at all with gluten.


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## Viv22

Hi

I got some test results today. If anyone has any idea what they mean, please feel free to let me know.

Serum Progesterone 29.3 nmo/L Action - Progeseterone >=20<30. If truly mid luteal phase, borderline value - suggest repeat on day 21 of 28 day cycle.

Serum Cholesterol 5.2 (3.00 - 5.00)

Serum LDL Cholesterol Level 3.2 (0000 - 3.00)

Serum Vitamin D - 64.0 (50.00 - 120) - interpretation 51 - 80 insufficiency but then says "normal no action)

Cortisol 18 nm0l/L (ref range 9 am 171 to 536: midnight 140)

TSH Receptor Antibodies - 0.34 IU/L 0 - 1.5 - negative result from referral

Any ideas? I only have these test results because I asked for them but I'm assuming because I haven't heard from the specialist, he thinks I am fine?! Cortisol looks very low to me though?


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## CA-Lynn

It looks pretty good, though I wonder about the cortisol. What time of day was the testing? Also, are you taking any steroids or androgen or phenytoin?


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## Viv22

Cortisol was taken at 9 am. I had to take a steroid the night before - once off.


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## CA-Lynn

Not necessary, but you might want to have the cortisol test repeated, no later than 8AM....AFTER you've been off steroids for a couple weeks. Odds are it will be normal. My point is that there is an explanation for your low cortisol score.


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## Viv22

It was a low level dexamethasone test


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## Swimmer

CA-:Lynn --

This is the famous Dr. Jonathan Wright who's clinic was RAIDED for B vitamins!!! (this was back in the 1990's.) No kidding!! He has been harassed. He will be harassed again.

For more information concerning what happened regarding 90 day license suspension -- in order to accurately handle such a statement -- here is the information: http://www.tahomaclinic.com/legal-news/

I know a physician and HE IS HER physician!! (She can afford to pay the big bucks!) *He is no quack -- he is currently practicing medicine, is an MD and his credentials ARE what they are. Who stopped with Harvard? That's only one of bonuses -- there are numerous excellent credentials. *

Regarding the license being suspended: Here are the details back from early last year: (It can be found online - on his own newsletter
-- but he has been harassed by WA state before - for "B" vitamins -- seriously. It's something that the details need to be read to be read - and they are available online.


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## Swimmer

CA-Lynn said:


> Regarding gluten:
> 
> I have a whole bunch of autoimmune diseases and have no problem at all with gluten.


I've eaten wheat & gluten for years -- no GI upset. Apparently, this particular problem doesn't cause a GI upset, may not have any visible symptoms, but shows up in the stool test (for those who have the problem -- and must have consumed gluten within a certain period of time.)


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## Swimmer

IT's ironic, how some people are so quick to call an amazing and excellent doctor a quack...

Yet other people go and self treat on an iodine yahoo group, or STTM yahoo group, where I've observed on both groups that people are sucking in all sorts of ideas, "one size fits all" ideas, and they're taking suggestions from everyday Bob & Jane's so to speak... And self treating. I remember reading on the iodine yahoo group, a woman who had done the "protocol" for a year and was now, a year later, developing a lump in her throat... I remember an old man on there whose wife had cancer and he was trying to self-treat with iodine... I remember a lady on the STTM group with a myriad of serious issues and the STTM people are giving her advice and yet they've never once REVIEWED her chart, taken her pulse, examined her body... Now that is serious borderline quackery.

Yet this Dr. WRight, who people fly in from all over the world to get his help, who is President Emeritus of the National Health Federation and has served on the Board of Directors of Bastyr University, The Life Extension Foundation, the American Preventive Medical Association, and other important medical institutions. - See more at: http://wrightnewsletter.com/about/#sthash.7ZUzpHV3.dpuf --- someone is ready to call a quack... WOW.


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## Swimmer

CA-Lynn said:


> Regarding Wright:
> 
> He was suspended from practicing medicine in 2013.
> 
> He only got his undergraduate from Harvard. He did NOT get his medical degree from there.
> 
> He and his "clinic" are listed on "Quackwatch."


Regarding Quackwatch and what you're referring to: http://www.quackwatch.com/04ConsumerEducation/Nonrecorg/aqa.html

Added onto Quackwatch by Stephen Barrett, MD

ANYWAY -- regardless of anything & everything 

I personally think it was a blessing that he openly shared his knowledge, not all docs are so up to date on these things. His protocol doesn't hurt anything, can only help. The other thing I think is cool, is that Dr. Wright also openly shared that the PABA needs to be taken under a doctors care. PABA is something that can be purchased at a supplements store. However to be taken safely, he thought it should be taken under a doctors care. Honorable. I think it's cool that anyone can take his protocol to their own MD or ND and ask for help. IT's also helpful that these are things that don't hurt, they only help anyway. So in the long run if it makes a difference for a Hashimoto's sufferer -- that is wonderful news. If it doesn't make a difference in their health, then they also weren't hurt. Finally, a quack would call it a "cure." He didn't. He began with "Hashimoto's is autoimmune" and went on and explained. He shared the protocol for what has made it disappear from labs and symptoms for some. Clearly, understanding that it is autoimmune, add the triggers back and it appears again.

Hope this is helpful to someone, and I hope that we who have Hashi's can be benefitted somehow by this help.


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## Airmid

Celiac Disease is actually a serious disease. It's not just some allergy to gluten. It destroys the small intestine. Little by little it becomes more and more destroyed. Most early stages of the disease can be reversed, the damage undone. Late stages, maintance and some damage undone.

There is no cheating on this diet. There is no "Oh I guess I'll have some of that pizza/brownie/cake." Once you have it, you have it for life and even cheating will make you sick.

The gold standard (and only) sure diagnosis is GI scope and biopsy. They can also tell at that time how damaged things are. It's not something to take lightly. I highly encourage anyone who has had positive tests to undergo a scope for confirmation. Labs and tests can be thrown off by a mired of things and biopsy is the only sure fire way of knowing.

Why am I so dogged about this? Because I may be developing it and if I do, it will take away a part of my family's heritage. I can make it but never eat it again. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, especially on top of what I have to deal with it.

To suggest that there's a sensitivity out there that conveniently doesn't show up in biopsy's is insane. I'm sorry it just is. If there is no medical science to back it up, then it's just a lot of words, telling people to go on a restrictive diet and they'll feel better. There are no fast and easy answers. There's no easy answer to autoimmune disorders - God I wish there was, the women in my family wouldn't have suffered from Endometriosis and miscarriages and immense pain if the answers to autoimmune disease was so easy.

Since the advent of farming people have been eating gluten based products. And Celiac doesn't always have noteable symptoms, especially in it's early stages. Which is why it's so important to undergo a scope and get tested.

While i think you are enthusiastic and good intentions on your information, at the same time there is a reason why we have medical testing and peer-reviewed journals. Sure strange things happen - my own Hashi's is a testament to that - along with new things that come up - such as Fibromyalgia - but in the end no answer is as easy as just eating differently. Otherwise every doctor out there who cares about their patient (and that's the vast majority) would be crowing this from the rooftops.,

EDIT: And BTW Prednisone is not a "pseudo-steroid" it's a synthetic. A bit of a difference there in meaning. It was originally made directly in a lab from hydrocortisone (cortisol - dear God I wish I had a medical spell checker) which is the naturally occurring steroid in the body. Prednisone is essentially 4 times more powerful then the naturally occurring cortisol, hence smaller doses - 5mg of prednisone -20 of hydrocortisone. Neither is a pseudo-steroid steroid with pseudo usually meaning false. Dr. Wright thinking of prednisone as "false" steroid right there drives me off anything he has to say - including how he "cured" Lupus with his diet - a disease that used to kill young until we had these "false" steroids.


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## Swimmer

Hi Airmid, I haven't been discussing celiac disease - but I'm sorry if you're suffering from that 

I'm meaning to share something I found very interesting - which is - that someone can have a gluten/gliadin problem - which can be detected on a stool test -- when they have no known symptoms -- and it may not show up on a blood test. What I think is interesting is that people can have the problem with no symtoms - they think everything is fine... Yet a trigger was lurking...

One of the tests is called: anti gliadin antibodies stool test (igg)

Understandably, sounds like you are way beyond this.

Hope you're feeling better, and hope things work out well for you and I hope you don't have celiacs.


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## Airmid

I'm not at full on Celiac's that we know of at this time. It is a problem brewing.

Hashimoto's causing some GI problems including some issues with absorption. What I have issues with is having this test, going gluten free and still have the underlying cause right there in front of you. Hashi's has also been known to cause some vitamin issues. Again treat the underlying cause and these should right themselves.

Why have I been talking about Celiac's? Well it is medically recognized. Sensitivity not so much. It also worries me if people who may have underlying Celiac Disease without symptoms may cut gluten out without knowing for sure what is actually going on. .


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## Swimmer

Airmid, I hope you get good news. Have you already started removing the gluten from your diet? (It's quite a process). On another note, I can't help but wonder, if we grew the wheat that grew 2,000 years ago... Well even 200 years ago would be good... Anything before Monsanto started genetically engineering the crops  ... Can't help but wonder if the problems related to gluten, gliadin, etc, would be so rampant. Hmmm.

Take care and I hope you'll get some good nourishment & good answers.

Swimmer


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## Danniswirl

Swimmer you are head on with the wheat grown 2,000 or even 200 years ago. There are many diseases that have reared there ugly heads now that we didn't have to worry about then. Yes food can be a cure, although a slower process ( and less profitable) than man made drugs that force the body into function....but nonetheless we at times need it. Why is a doctor called a quack who takes a different approach. I think the real quacks are those stubborn huge ego doctors that won't listen to their patients and thus label them as hypochondriacs!!! And I hate to say that someone is sounding a bit like them! I, me, myself have been living in this body suffering from stomach issues since I was very young and even though I did not get a diagnoses of celiac disease I do have gluten sensitivity. I do not need an MD or a peer review for that! Every case in Hashimoto's disease is different. One person may suffer from Celiac/gluten intolerance and another may suffer from Adrenal issues. We are all so different. It is very complex. Personally the yahoo groups I go on has helped me. They are not perfect but they know a heck of a lot more than the many many doctors I have seen (some NP) who looked at me like my symptoms were I. My head. They threw antidepressants and Xanax at me that would have messed me up even more! And actually the frown against using iodine, especially with Hashimotos. If you had to make "An Educated" choice as to whether to self treat or stay sick (being unable to take care of children or some days to even get out of bed) tell me what choice would you make? We each have to make our own treatment plan according to our own needs.


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## Swimmer

HI Danni, I know what you're saying... I knew someone who was very ill. THe docs literally offered to prescribe sleeping pills, depression meds, and the illness went on for months. Didn't know if their whole world would change, if it was cancer... Finally the day came when a very knowledgeable old doctor listened well, did the tests... What did ya know, it was simply an adult case of mono and strep in the blood (i.e., eppstein barr virus + strep in the blood.)

It took the person one year to recover, two years to get back to themselves. There was NO medicine to take. Naturally, there are things that can be of benefit such as monolaurin, treating candidiasis if the person has been on antibiotics... I guess it happens that strep can hop on the ride with eppstein barr, which a lot of the population has if I recall correctly, it's just dormant/not activated in many.

Sometimes things are a mystery, and sometimes it takes a doctor who is smart & caring enough to really listen and believe in the patient.


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## surge

Hi, Viv-- I've been away for awhile but wanted to check back in. I see a ragin' wheat/no wheat debate started. My blood test shows no celiac's and I really don't know what to think about increased instances of people thinking they are 'sensitive.' All I know is that my numbers fluctuated pretty wildly when I was eating wheat. I gave it up for 6 weeks, then ate as much as I wanted (it was summer. We're talking fresh pesto pasta a couple of times a week, beer, oh the sandwiches and pizza slices. Sigh.) and at the end of that 6 weeks, my tsh shot from under 1 to 9. So, I cut out wheat completely and the number modulated. I have gone low since, as I often do in winter, but the 'feel' of the low was milder this time. I don't know if I'm just beginning to actually heal-- it might not be sensitivity at all, but just a need to take a break from certain inflammants. I also really try to limit sugar and I drink far less since I can't drink beer and that probably helps. Any way, this long spiel is just to say that I think you kind of have to find your own way, through trial and error and keeping close tabs on what you're doing and what the numbers reflect, but most importantly, how you feel.

I would say that if your antibodies are this high, your body is stressed. The lower coritsol might reflect as much, as well as the slightly off-balance (though still in the normal range) hormones. Try to take care of yourself and consider part of that care getting exercise, but try gentler varieties-- less crazy heart pumping, more walking, stretching, some cardio, sure-- but nothing too exuberant for now, to see if this helps. And fish oil. Big ups to fish oil (just go for high quality to avoid mercury).Selenium can be difficult to dose correctly, so yes, I wouldn't be surprised if coming off it helps. In my experience, antibodies really reflect what you already know: your body is stressed and it is throwing out crazy signals all over the place. Patience, trial and error and keeping some of the fear (for your night, the next few weeks, the next swing, your body, your future) in check in any way you can is important. I still feel like I'm looking over my shoulder waiting for the big bad to pounce again, even though I also know I do feel so much better than when I was at my worst). Don't stress too much about exact answers, if you can. Seek instead a routine that feels like it supports you and seek good care and don't let the normal tests disappoint you (I so get that. I almost cried when so many of my tests came back as normal and my PCP said "it's the thyroid" while my Endo said, 'I don't think we can blame this all on the thyroid'). You're doing the right thing by seeking help, keep plugging away. And take some big deep breaths and try to go do something fun that makes you forget for a couple of hours that you don't feel like yourself. Do this any chance you get. Just to remind yourself what you're trying to get back to and also just to laugh and stop calculating or researching for a bit. (You may do all of this already. Just wanted to encourage you to take care of yourself in other ways too-- not just with supplements, which are good, and tests, which hopefully lead to understanding-- but with compassion and patience.


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## Viv22

Hi

Test results for Pheochromocytoma and Cushings came back negative. I asked the specialist to test TSI and he did a TSH Receptor Antibody test - I have a feeling that this may be the wrong test. How frustrating. I also went on the wrong days to do the Estrogen and Progesterone tests so who knows - my brain is so foggy at times - I can't believe the things I do sometimes!?!

I went trawling through this site looking at other threads and getting information and did some research on adrenals and found this article by Dr Lam on adrenal fatigue. WOW - it hit me like a ton of bricks!

All the things I suffer from and more - palpitations, fluctuating blood pressure, constipation, PMS and stopping cycle on day 4/5 and then starting again a day later - just to name a few symptoms - this is me!!!

I spoke to the specialist when he gave me my results (who seemed to be very annoyed with me) - I insisted to him that although all the test results had come back clear, that there is still something wrong with me. I would not let it go. I told him about the article I found on adrenal fatigue and he said that he would arrange for me to have a blood test to check the adrenals - I am waiting for the hospital to contact me to do this.

I am concerned that this is still going to give a negative reading but I know in my heart of hearts that this is the issue. It is so frustrating. I know myself and I know that three is something not right. I feel like I am fighting the medical profession and that nobody believes me. Like I'm some kind of hypochondriac. I just want this all to be over and I want to be healthy.

I saw a nutritionist last week and she told me that in her opinion I am suffering from exhaustion. She immediately told me to stop taking so much vitamin C because it is not good for adrenal fatigue. She has put me on vitamin B complex, half a teaspoon magnesium and 500 mg vitamin C every morning. I am taking HTP5 at night. I am recording my life for 4 days and then she will devise a plan. Let's hope for miracles.

Apparently my thyroid levels are perfect now so I will continue on the 100mg/75mg alternating dose every morning. According to the medical profession I am "healthy" and they cannot find anything wrong with me. It's incredibly frustrating having to deal with this. I will keep you updated on adrenal blood tests whenever these happen.

Thanks all for your input.


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## CA-Lynn

Sorry, as someone who has very close ties to medical doctors, all of whom follow the licensing rules, I am totally unsympathetic to Wright's license revocation. Trust me when I say that the medical boards don't pull licenses unless they have sufficient grounds.

Bastyr is a naturopathic school.

Wright is all about selling products and his books.

Frankly, anyone who says they can cure diabetes and joint pain, both of which I have, NATURALLY is barking up the wrong tree.


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## Swimmer

Hi Lynn, no problem. These days, as an older gentleman, he's sharing lots of information free - still makes a living though. He has a radio show called "Green Radio." He shares what he has found w/people at no cost, then people like me can take this info to my MD and follow the protocol - I understand it's not for everyone.

"Curing" diabetes (although we rarely hear that term) doesn't work for everyone, especially type 1's or juvenille, but people are "dropping" diabetes so to speak -- all around. Type 2 is much easier to help these days. But fascinatingly, the man who found he was a type 1 diabetic back in the 1960's and used to have to go in once a month (or every three - can't remember which) - he developed home sugar level blood testing as I understand it - and has caused diabetes for himself as a type one to disappear - yet he must adhere to his strict diet as I understand it, all in all is quite remarkable, He is an elderly gentleman now. He has a book, but the info is also free online. You can also watch him on youtube.

This isn't to say that everyone can "lose" their diabetes. But there can be a lot of help to lower the amount of insulin one needs, and hopefully prevent the dangerous things that can occur. If you would like me to find the free info, let me know and I'll look it up for you. Here's a quick bio on him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_K._Bernstein

Dr. Richard Bernstein (Part 1)--Nutrition & Metabolism Society Meeting--May 8, 2010 On youtube

As far as joint pain goes, I don't know if this would help or not, because it probably depends on what causes your joint pain. But there are some people who have been helped immensely by altering foods in their diets. THere is a specific health diet which is not for weight loss, but to quiet inflammation, and it has helped some to lose the joint pain - I don't know if it would help you or not. It is called "The Abascal Way."

Anyway, I do hope you're feeling better, and I hope that you're able to keep your diabetes well managed. It can be a very difficult and devastating illness/disease.

With kind caring thoughts -- HUGS --

swimmer


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## CA-Lynn

Swimmer,

My diabetes is well managed, I haven't taken drugs for it in years since my A1C is back in the normal range. I feel fine and have for quite some time. I am one of many who does well with a good endocrinologist. My autoimmune diseases are managed well and also have been for years, thanks to real medicine and biologic drugs. I've been dealing with all this for over 20 years. Not too much I don't know about the conditions I've been diagnosed with.

But once diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes, the label sticks, even though your A1C goes into the normal range with proper medication and/or diet. It's like a recovered alcoholic. Even though he abstains from alcohol, he's still an alcoholic. Same with diabetes.

Appreciate the offer but there is *no way *I would find what "physicians" such as Wright have to say as credible. Anyone who says diet can control autoimmune joint pain missed years of studying *real *medicine. They have absolutely NO understanding that without DMARDS or biologics RA [just one of hundreds of arthritic autoimmune diseases] joint destruction will occur and it is NOT reversible.

Bernstein has been around for a while and what he says is nothing new....but he found an audience. It's true: if you control your diet and are able to get your glucose down, then the odds are you'll need less medication. This is mostly true for Type 2's. Type 1 is a different story.

I feel these kinds of people [Wright, not Bernstein], regardless of "free" radio programs, prey on people who are desperate for relief. IN the case of Wright, his radio programs are designed to get the listener to google him and go to the clinic and buy all the goodies they sell. Marketing hype is a strange bedfellow.

Again, thanks for the offer, but no thanks.


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## Swimmer

arty0045: That's awesome-sauce that you're diabetes is in control -- What a blessing!! So nice to have a great endo!!! arty0045:


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## surge

Viv- well, I'm glad you're numbers are in range. Now that your thyroid is settled you'll be able to concentrate on healing your system in general, including the adrenals. Lots of rest, water and gentle exercise every day. Sounds like you've got some good support with your nutritionist. good luck & keep updating!


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## Viv22

I want to provide an update for all those people who are having problems and have nowhere to turn and are looking for answers.

I was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome yesterday. I was scheduled to see this specialist last September but I started feeling a bit better so cancelled the appointment. I have been feeling very fatigued lately so decided to see him. I can't help but feel uncomfortable with this diagnosis - I used to be so energetic and alive and now I am a shadow of my former self and I have so many issues. I feel like a hypochondriac with an arms length list of complaints. It's just not right!!!

I contracted German Measles in December 2012 and was laid up for 3 weeks. Since that point, I have had a lot of health problems. Always getting sick etc etc. Apparently, this is quite a common "breeding ground" for CFS and the specialists cannot tell you why, but it is! Post viral something or the other. He says that CFS, Hashimoto's (diagnosed July 2013) and IBS (diagnosed November 2013) are actually quite commonly found together.

I am still waiting for the short Syncathen test to check my adrenals. I feel that this is a big problem - especially the hormone related problems. The fact my cycle always stops mid way and then starts again was the biggest eye turner, along with the severe anger issues around my cycle, palpitations and fluctuating blood pressure. I tick virtually every box from Dr Lam's article on Adrenal Fatigue. I know that these things are quite closely related to CFS too.

I am also seeing a Dietician this week who has devised a plan to treat my adrenals.

I cannot believe that over a year later, I am still having issues with my health. I have always been strong, athletic and healthy and I am hoping that I will soon have my energy and zest for life back.


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## Swimmer

Hi Viv, I can't remember if I mentioned this before or not, but I wonder if this would help slowly; as only helping maybe a part of a puzzle. So I'm looking at this from this the point of view of -- if you received antibiotics for german measles - and if you did - then I only mean to discuss the part of this puzzle that revolves around the things that could potentially be helped regarding that little piece of the puzzle. (adding this note after Lynn's helpful observation  to make sure no one misunderstands -- I just don't know how german measles are treated. But if it requires antibiotics for the cure - then definitely take them!! Antibiotics SAVE LIVES!)

I knew someone who received lots of antibiotics for an illness/virus (strep - long story). One year later. One thing led to another and they became exhausted and fatigued to the point that their eyes saw different color variations, could hardly get out of bed for a time, skin looked pasty white, utter exhaustion, could hardly write their name at times, all sorts of exhaustion, fatigue, extremeness for this AAA person - HIGHLY fit, very physical, lean, strong, let's say -- a "mega person" if you will. Went from doctor to doctor. Doc's offered sleeping pills... (HUH??) Doc's offered anit-depressants (WHAT? Are you kidding me?) The person was ultrasounded, cat-scanned, MRI-d, neurologist, liver specialist, etc etc etc... NOTHING could be found that was wrong. FOUR months later the person went to my endocrinologist. This guy... "LISTENED." Did some simple tests. The person simply had strep (still in their blood) and mono. The answer: REST. It could take up nearly a year to get well. After one full year from the onset, and trying all sorts of health/nutrition things, the person was getting well. It was one more full year until they were "themselves" again. Now many years later, they have fully returned to health. 

You could... Go to a hematologist and have them look and see if the german measles has been completely irradicated from your blood... In the case of the person I mentioned above, they were allergic to the antibiotics. So they got strep ONE YEAR EARLIER, it didn't go away. Changed antibiotics due to trying another kind or something like that, allergic reaction, changed antibiotics, seemed to go away... So this strep seemed to open the door somehow to ignite mono/eppstein barr (many people carry it) and for an adult to go through it - can be very difficult.

So -- you could look into candida, yeast overgrowth from antibiotics. Your doc can actually do testing for this and help you with this. To get rid of candida, some who have it bad - may need to take at first - gentle steps - or you can become quite sick. You might look into first taking probiotics (a high quality like metagenics ultra flora - keep refrigerated) and then you may read about monolaurin (made from coconut oil) - I would "HIGHLY" recommend you look into this -- I know someone who this helped immensely after antibiotics & the person not feeling right for months (accompanied with probiotics). Next you could look into "caprylic acid" by NOW 600 mg per day (please read about this first and make sure you're not a kidney stone former... I would try the monolaurin first personally, then after a short time perhaps try the caprylic acid - but I would be gentle - don't overdo it with two, only take them for a few weeks at a time, and TONS of water -- read about this first, see if you're a candidate for them). These things are made/derived from coconut. Although, some can come from different sources. Anyway, caprylic acid can "burst" the yeast. Remember to take the vitamin c, foods that help destroy free radicals... Take it slow, get rest, and perhaps this could help you with one little piece of this puzzle -- or perhaps I'm waaaaay off here... But after what I personally know of what the person went through -- I'd say some of this might be worth a shot... Especially seeing a hematologist to find out... Is the german measles still showing up in your blood -- I don't mean in the utter sickness stage -- but your body may have dealt with it in a way that has left it barely showing up... (?) I don't know about these things, but somehow, that seems to be how it worked with the strep for the person. You can be tested for yeast overgrowth. If it's really bad, your doc will give you diflucan. Reading about candida - you'll find the sympoms are varied - like fatigue... You should see the list. You should have them check you for eppstein barr virus and if it doesn't show up right now -- you can be checked in four more months -- hey wait -- isn't that what they're using to diagnose you as chronic fatigue? In fact I do believe I recall that is the marker they use --- so if that's the case -- the things I've mentioned could be of HUGE help to you.

Finally, I want to mention, that the return to health over the two years was a bumpy emotional road. As the person was getting well, their range of emotions could swing, they didn't handle themselves like normal -- I liken it to a baby colt learning to just get up on it's legs and stand strong... Before it stands strong - it wobbles and needs to get it's bearing -- it was like that. But the time did eventually come when all was well, emotions returned to normal  and health, strength, vitality, AAA person... It all eventually & wonderfully returned. Lots of joy/happy.

Bless you, take care


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## Viv22

Swimmer, thanks for your input - you have given me some food for thought.


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## CA-Lynn

I hope no one takes away the message that they should not take antibiotics if they have Strep or any infection.


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## Swimmer

In agreement with Lynn!! I hope no one reads that into it!! If the person I spoke of didn't have antibiotics to wipe out the strep, he might be dead or have the horrible things that come with untreated strep - people die without antibiotics!


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## Airmid

Swimmer said:


> Airmid, I hope you get good news. Have you already started removing the gluten from your diet? (It's quite a process). On another note, I can't help but wonder, if we grew the wheat that grew 2,000 years ago... Well even 200 years ago would be good... Anything before Monsanto started genetically engineering the crops  ... Can't help but wonder if the problems related to gluten, gliadin, etc, would be so rampant. Hmmm.
> 
> Take care and I hope you'll get some good nourishment & good answers.
> 
> Swimmer


I'm sorry I didn't see your reply till I was re-visiting this thread. 

Oh God no I have not cut out gluten. I already have to watch my Vitamin D which means anything with Calcium as everything with calcium is enriched with vitamin D. I can see milk but does everything with calcium have to be enriched? I can't have vitamin D as it will increase my calcium absorption causing more calcium issues. I had a doctor about 5 years ago who decided putting me on 50,000 IU of vitamin D to raise it would be a good idea. I ended up in the ER with stroke level blood pressure (quite a feat when it's usually 94/60) and severe pain with a calcium level of 11.6. Not fun times.

So until my parathyroid issues are fixed and I am no longer broken I can't have even the daily minimum of calcium. My Hashi's right now is actually doing me a favor and saving me from severe bone loss after a decade of both as it increases the time of bone resorption from 200 days to 700, keeping me from losing too much. Hyparathyroidism can cause small hemorrhages in the bone however and this can lead to pain even without a lot of lose of density sadly.

So with that huge chunk of my diet cut out, if I totally cut out gluten too I think I would have to live on produce and pine nuts. While I'm not a huge eater of gluten products I don't avoid them like the plague either. Just the way things are and right now hoping to get the surgery I need which will once and for all take Hashi's out of the equation along with my parathyroid issues. Keep your fingers crossed for me the VA actually does the right thing and approves outside care without a fight.


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## Swimmer

Airmid, I'm sorry you have to go through so much  wow.

I can understand why it's too much.

Do I remember you mentioning celiacs? I apologize if I remember incorrectly, I thought you were having issues with gluten and harming your intestines.

If I do remember correctly, I want to encourage you - there is a book by Kathy Abascal -- and she lays out a plan that is basically "whole foods" no dairy no gluten no gliadin -- (but you can have coffee - yay) -- she is coming from a scientific perspective (not a dieting book - rather a health & balance focus - it's actually quite interesting) but if you need an easier way to figure things out, the two books she has (the book that explains and then the menu/recipes) is very helpful. (Someone gave this set to me and I am occasionally working on transitioning to it.) It's kind of a step by step process, making one change at a time.

I already eat mostly "whole foods" -- and mostly gluten free - woops except for that tempting & yummy chocolate Costco muffin I ate last night - woops  But the nice thing is that it's one step at a time.

I also like that that it's helpful in thinking of how to fill a plate. Lunch and dinner are like 2/3 vegetables on the plate (see the picture in your minds eye perhaps) and then that last little 1/3 has the space for fruit, protein, non-wheat grains. Supposed to eat in this balance until full. There's more details to it -- but putting into practice laying out my plate like that - and not including wheat -- it makes it quite easy.

the only thing she includes that I won't include (because it effects me) is soy.

Take care and I hope you get lots of rest and feeling good.

Swimmer


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