# Sad & Desperate



## livinginhope (Mar 5, 2011)

Hi everyone. I've just joined this forum I did post in the newbie section but I thought that I would also post this in the Hashi section. However, I will give you my story and hopefully someone will be able to give me some advice. I am 42 & married with 3 children. I had a hysterectomy 3 or so years ago for heavy & prolonged periods but still have my ovaries. At the time I thought that this was going to solve all my problems.

I got diagnosed with Hashimoto's in Oct 2010 but of course have had symptoms for probably 7 years but as the TSH kept coming back within normal range I kept getting told that my thyroid was fine and I wasn't actually trying hard enough to lose weight, and as for all the other symptoms well it was just all a bit in my mind!! The only reason it got discovered now is because my Naturopath ordered an antibody blood test because of my never-ending fatigue which showed it up.

So when I showed it to my medical doctor, he put me on Thyroxine 5mg. At the time I naively thought that this was going to fix everything and I would start feeling better and actually be able to lose some weight. However, I've been on it now for 4+ months and nothing has changed. Every day is a struggle.

My symptoms are:
Extreme fatigue and general feeling of unwellness and some nausea. I could sleep half the day and still sleep a full 8 hours at night.
Severe lack of stamina for exercise
Headaches
Unable to shed weight & still gaining despite doing all the right things
Sensitivity to cold
High blood pressure
Excessive sweating even when it's not that hot
Swollen ankles & aching body
Cholesterol climbing up
Loss of libido
Depression

I used to be able to get up at 5am and go walking/jogging but now it's all I can do just to get out of bed. The mornings are the worst for me and the evenings are the best, but I can't tolerate late nights now, I pay for it the next day.

Here are my blood results:
TSH 2.47 (Range: 0.35-5.50)
Free T4 10.9 (Range: 9.0-25.0)
Free T3 3.6 (Range 3.5-6.5)

Throid Autoantibodies - 339 (< 60)

These are the Salivary Hormone Tests done through a lab:
Oestrone 3 (Range: 2-9)
Oestradiol 3 (Range: 2-8)
Progesterone 904 (Range: 1000-1500)
Testosterone 172 (Range: 10-90)
Cortisol 16 (Range: 5.3-61.8)

Ultrasound report: Patchy changes in echo texture are seen thoughtout the thyroid gland on both sides. No nodules were seen apart from a 5mm cystic lesion in the right lobe. Normal vascularity and normal looking lymph nodes were seen in the region.

I am suffering from bad depression at the moment and I feel like I've fallen down a slippery slope and into a black hole. I have never suffered from depression like this before. I am seeing a psychologist next week and doctor said I may have to consider anti-depressants which I'm not keen on. My weight issues are a big problem for me, I just can't accept being overweight when I do everything I can not to be, and I just can't stop crying and feel so helpless.

When I look around the forum it seems like there is nothing that really helps all the Hashi symptoms, but maybe I'm missing something. Maybe I will have to look into natural treatments more.

Is there anyone with Hashi's who has been able to lose weight and how did you do it? I try to stay low carb as I know that I am very carb sensitive and I also try to avoid gluten products most of the time although I am not celiac but last time I had a colonoscopy/gastroscopy the doctor told me I had internal physical signs of gluten intolerance.

I am sorry that this is so long-winded but I am losing the fight to stay positive. Any thoughts or help of what to do next would be appreciated. I am considering asking for a referral to an endocrinologist but I'm worried that my doctor will think that I haven't got faith in him (he is also my boss).

Thanks in advance for any comments.

Lisa. xx


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## McKenna (Jun 23, 2010)

Hi Lisa and welcome.

IMO, you are not on enough thyroxine b/c your free t's are at the very bottom of range. It's no wonder you are still feeling poorly. Your TSH is closer to normal, but it's still higher than a lot of people would feel well at.

It can take a while to titrate your replacement dose up to an optimal level, and even more time before you feel back to normal. Hang in there.

Maybe a referral to an endocrinologist would be helpful, at least to get another opinion. Will your current doctor raise your dose?


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## northernlite (Oct 28, 2010)

I agree with McKenna you are under medicated. Your FT3 is your active hormone and yours is at the bottom of the range. Shoot for above the midpoint and a lot of people say closer to 75% of the range for both FT4 and FT3. With your lab ranges, 75% would be FT4=21 and FT3=5.75

I encourage you to take what ever steps necessary to get a medication increase and I would try to avoid starting on an anti-depressant until you get your thryoid hormones at a more optimal level.

It will be hard to lose weight until you get your thyroid on a more optimal level. I struggled for the last 6 months of 2010 and it didn't seem to matter how low I cut my calories nothing worked. Now that my thyroid levels are good, I have lost 12 lbs this year by cutting my portions and counting my calories.

Hang in there and do what is right for you.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

livinginhope said:


> Hi everyone. I've just joined this forum I did post in the newbie section but I thought that I would also post this in the Hashi section. However, I will give you my story and hopefully someone will be able to give me some advice. I am 42 & married with 3 children. I had a hysterectomy 3 or so years ago for heavy & prolonged periods but still have my ovaries. At the time I thought that this was going to solve all my problems.
> 
> I got diagnosed with Hashimoto's in Oct 2010 but of course have had symptoms for probably 7 years but as the TSH kept coming back within normal range I kept getting told that my thyroid was fine and I wasn't actually trying hard enough to lose weight, and as for all the other symptoms well it was just all a bit in my mind!! The only reason it got discovered now is because my Naturopath ordered an antibody blood test because of my never-ending fatigue which showed it up.
> 
> ...


Lisa, you poor woman. You do not have enough FT4 and FT3 to barely sustain life!!!

Also, have you written your dosage amount correctly? 5MG seems like a lot of thyroxine? Is your doctor doing labs every 8 weeks which is the proper protcul for titrating thyroxine as needed?

Let me say this much, FT3 is vitally important for mental health and acuity. No wonder you are depressed.

You are somehow going to have to move beyond your boss on this matter as your well-being is at stake here. As pointed out by myself and others, your FT4 and FT3 are desperately in the basement. Both should be above the mid-range of the range given by your lab.

There are other tests you should have.

TSI (thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin),TPO (antimicrosomal antibodies) TBII (thyrotropin-binding inhibitory immunoglobulin), Thyroglobulin Ab, ANA (antinuclear antibodies), (thyroid hormone panel) TSH, Free T3, Free T4.

You can look this stuff up here and more.........
http://www.labtestsonline.org/

Also, if you really have Hashimoto's, you should get RAIU given your age and the disease as cancer of the thyroid is a possibility and should be ruled out or in.

Graves' and Hashi's cancer
http://www.thyroidmanager.org/Chapter18/18-cancothr.htm

I cannot stress RAIU enough. Sonograms/ultrasound have their limitations.

What antibodies were those? Antimicrosomal? You cannot lose weight until you are properly medicated and have reached the euthyroid state. Most of us feel our best and operate at optimum level w/ TSH @ 1.0 or less and FT4 and FT3 @ about 75% of the range given by your lab.

I hope you can avoid anti, d's as I am convinced that you are horribly in need of proper medical intervention for your thyroid at this time.

Also hope we can bolster your confidence. Validation is so important so let it be know,loud and clear.......................I am "validating" you!


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## nikimcn (Oct 16, 2010)

my goodness Lisa~I could have written this same post.
I am heavy, need to lose but cannot.
I have 4 kids and am 39.
I have high antibody levels but all other levels are fine so they won't put me on meds for thyroid issues.
I have horrible depression and mood swings.
I had a hysterectomy as well when I was 33 and left my ovaries.
um, on and on I feel like YOU! Ifyou want to talk I am here. You can emil me anytime. I'm still in the 'finding out' what is going on period of this stuff.
They are now suspecting Lupus, but all the levels, once again, are coming up fine. I've been on a serious diet for 3 wks and am only down like 3-4 pounds. Hubby has been on the SAME diet and is down like 15-20 
I'm on no meds for my depression because they make me gain more.
oh ya, i'm on meds for high blood press. as well. ugh. contact me, seriously :hugs:


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## livinginhope (Mar 5, 2011)

Thank you all so much for your advice, it has really helped and lifted my spirits.

Andros, I looked on my packet of Thyroxine again and it says 50mcg, which I thought was the same as 5mg but maybe I'm wrong?? Anyway the packet definitely says 50mcg. I've only had 1 blood test done 6 weeks after starting the Thyroxine and he didn't increase anything, so I thought I was on the right dose now, but obviously not. After reading your replies I understand what the numbers mean a bit more. Thank you for validating me Andros, because up until now no-else has except maybe my husband. I even feel sometimes that my mum thinks I'm exaggerating how bad I feel cause she says I just feel a bit tired from looking after 3 kids and working. But my kids range between 7 & 15 so they're not babies and I only work part-time. I guess that unless you suffer from thyroid problems you don't really understand how debilitating the symptoms are.

Thank you mckenna & northernlite for your comments, you are obviously both right as well.

I agree with you all too about avoiding anti-depressants at the moment. I can hang in there while I try to get this thyroid right. Plus I really don't want to take anymore medication if I don't have to, bad enough having to take Thyroxine & BP meds when I've never had to take any medication at all in my life up until now!!

nikimcn - I will email you once I work out how to. lol

Thank you all again so much, you have given me a lot of hope again and I will see my doctor again this week and try and get something positive happening.

Lisa. Giant hugs to you all. :hugs:


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## seastan67 (Feb 5, 2011)

Hi Lisa, Just wanted to add to this post- In your first intor you mentioned your doctor is also your boss..... At this point I would think its time to get a new boss and or a second opionion. Dont let him play GOD to you - your life hangs in th balance----:hugs:


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## HeidiBR (Apr 4, 2010)

I agree with the others that you are seriously undermedicated. Once you get to a proper level on the meds, many of your symptoms will take care of themselves.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

livinginhope said:


> Thank you all so much for your advice, it has really helped and lifted my spirits.
> 
> Andros, I looked on my packet of Thyroxine again and it says 50mcg, which I thought was the same as 5mg but maybe I'm wrong?? Anyway the packet definitely says 50mcg. I've only had 1 blood test done 6 weeks after starting the Thyroxine and he didn't increase anything, so I thought I was on the right dose now, but obviously not. After reading your replies I understand what the numbers mean a bit more. Thank you for validating me Andros, because up until now no-else has except maybe my husband. I even feel sometimes that my mum thinks I'm exaggerating how bad I feel cause she says I just feel a bit tired from looking after 3 kids and working. But my kids range between 7 & 15 so they're not babies and I only work part-time. I guess that unless you suffer from thyroid problems you don't really understand how debilitating the symptoms are.
> 
> ...


ROLF!! You were a "wee" bit wrong Honey Bunny! 5mg. would equal 5000 mcg. and I was EXTREMELY worried. To the max. So, thank you for checking on that and now we "both" can relax.

That said, you are very undermedicated.

Okay; here is the game plan. You will have to be very proactive w/this. It is important for you to get your labs every 8 weeks and then the doctor must titrate your thyroxine in small amounts (say 25 mcg.) at a time until you are euthyroid which means feeling quite well.

"If" you are euthryoid, the chances are, you won't even need BP meds. We will have to wait and see on that.

Now; here is a "guideline" for you........

"Most" of us feel good when TSH is @ 1.0 or less and the FREE T4 and FREE T3 are @ about 75% of the range provided by your lab. The most important one to be at that place is FREE T3. FREE T4 may wax and wane a bit as that is what is converting into your FREE T3 and FREE T3 is your active hormone. This is what gives you energy, good moods, ability to heal, good cognition and so on.

Go to the poster's profile by clicking on their name. If they have their e-mail address listed, that means they would like e-mails.

If your current doctor will not see the light on this titration issue, I urge you to find another doc who will.

It is absolutely unconscionable to keep you in this very bad place. And, it could actually cause you to have serious medical issues such as stroke or heart-attack.

If your "numbers" are not just right, the heart suffers big time. So does everything else but the heart is #1.


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## livinginhope (Mar 5, 2011)

Thank you so much Andros - I will get moving on it all this week, now that I have a clearer idea of what needs to happen. In fact thank you to everyone who has commented, it has all helped tremendously. I was starting to think I was going crazy!!

Love to you all hugs3


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## McKenna (Jun 23, 2010)

You are most definitely NOT going crazy! And any doctor that makes you feel that way should be avoided.

Thyroid disease causes a lot of mental symptoms and doctors will throw antidepressants and anti-anxiety meds around like candy, when most of the time all we need is to get our thyroid levels optimal.

Hang in there! You can do some searches online to see articles written about thryoid disease and mental symptoms. Here are some that I've found interesting.

http://www.yourmedicaldetective.com/public/1024.cfm
http://www.thyroidtalk.com/DepressionThyroidDisease.html
http://www.suite101.com/content/thyroid-disease-psychiatric-aspect-a5375
http://www.drrichardhall.com/anxiety.htm


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

livinginhope said:


> Thank you so much Andros - I will get moving on it all this week, now that I have a clearer idea of what needs to happen. In fact thank you to everyone who has commented, it has all helped tremendously. I was starting to think I was going crazy!!
> 
> Love to you all hugs3


You are perfectly sane but I am beginning to really wonder about a "lot" of doctors!

Keep in touch; please!


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## prettynikki5 (Dec 9, 2009)

livinginhope said:


> Thank you so much Andros - I will get moving on it all this week, now that I have a clearer idea of what needs to happen. In fact thank you to everyone who has commented, it has all helped tremendously. I was starting to think I was going crazy!!
> 
> Love to you all hugs3


You are not crazy. It feels that way because we have so many symptoms and no answers and docs that don't always do such a good job with us in their care. I have 5 kids, I understand how debilitating this is. We cannot function, it's all we can think about. It adds to the sadness and frustration for us because we are mommies and wives and friends and we want to have the energy and fell well again and be able to focus on the more important things in life. And nobody really knows what you are going through or understands...this place has been my sanctuary  So many kind, informative people that best of all, know what I am going through and there is always someone here with a kind word and big hug whenever you need it.
Glad to have you here, hope that you can get on the right track here soon. I agree you are undermedicated as well.
:hugs:


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## livinginhope (Mar 5, 2011)

Thanks guys, you have no idea how grateful I am that I found this forum (especially Andros), otherwise I would still be stumbling around blindly. So I went to work yesterday, had bit of a meltdown when the practice manager asked me if I was okay?? The problem is that by the time I get 3 kids ready for school, get myself ready for work and actually get to work by 8am, I am an exhausted, emotional mess, and it takes me a couple of hours to actually sort myself out!!

Anyway, my practice manager knows I've got Hashi's and she is fighting Leukemia for the 3rd time so she knows all about fatigue & auto-immune problems. She decided that I needed to see a different doctor, other than our boss, and got me to book into a female doctor in town who has a great reputation.

Luckily I got in yesterday, and she listened to me and carefully looked at the last blood tests I took with me, and said that the blood tests weren't as comprehensive as they should be. She's taken more blood tests (which took 3 tries, as they have trouble finding my veins) and is going to send me straight away to either an endocrinologist or immunologist depending on how the tests come back. She feels that there is more going on with the auto-immune side of things. So at least I feel like I have some direction now. The best thing was that she took all my symptoms seriously and didn't just fob me off.

Anyway I'll keep you in the loop.
Hope you all have a fantasic day.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

livinginhope said:


> Thanks guys, you have no idea how grateful I am that I found this forum (especially Andros), otherwise I would still be stumbling around blindly. So I went to work yesterday, had bit of a meltdown when the practice manager asked me if I was okay?? The problem is that by the time I get 3 kids ready for school, get myself ready for work and actually get to work by 8am, I am an exhausted, emotional mess, and it takes me a couple of hours to actually sort myself out!!
> 
> Anyway, my practice manager knows I've got Hashi's and she is fighting Leukemia for the 3rd time so she knows all about fatigue & auto-immune problems. She decided that I needed to see a different doctor, other than our boss, and got me to book into a female doctor in town who has a great reputation.
> 
> ...


Oh, what terrific news and thank God for your co-worker and I will keep her in my prayers as well as you!

I do think you found a good doc. Whooooooooooooooooohoo!!

You must let us know as soon as you know and please include ranges w/ the results as different labs use different ranges!!!

Next time you lab; please drink sufficient water before hand. Sounds like you were dehydrated. Hydration makes those veins co-operate!!


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