# Insomnia anyone?



## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

*Does your thyroid disease affect your sleep? I have horrible insomnia and have had it for years now. My sleep is getting better, but it's a slow improvement. I have at times, been awake for 3 days straight. I do get off the computer by 8pm. I also got a shield for my monitor that prevents the computer rays from affecting my brain. I also turn off the tv by 10pm. I've tried melatonin and it works like a miracle, but the next day I feel very odd, kind of outside of myself and a bit of paranoia, so I don't want to try melatonin again. I also take valerian root and magnesium citrate at night and that is supposed to help. I drink a big mug of chamomile tea a couple hours before bed. All of these things are supposed to help, but I still have trouble sleeping. Sometimes it can take a couple of hours to get to sleep and then I never, EVER stay asleep. I keep waking up. I do unplug things in the bedroom to stop the EMF's, which can also affect our sleep. What else can I do? Any advice would be greatly appreciated!*


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

I have the same problem.

And It all started when my thyroid acted up.

Even when I was extremely hypo I only sleep at most a few hours at a time.

I did find out that if I do a lot of physical exercise I sleep somewhat longer.

I myself don't indulge anymore but have you ever tried a few alcoholic beverages before bed?

In my drinking days those few drinks would knock me out ever time.


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## KeepOnGoing (Jan 2, 2013)

I have real problems with sleep, too. But it's confused by the menopause and a stressful job, so I'm never sure what to blame. I take the magnesium and valerian too, with varying success - some nights I fall asleep straight away, others it can be 2 or 3 in the morning and I'm still awake.

Like creepingdeath, I do find that exercise helps to improve the quality of my sleep, if not the quantity. So I'm back running again, which does feel a bit daft when you're absolutely shattered before you start. So far I'm finding that I don't feel any more exhausted and I definitely sleep better, so I'll keep going for now.

Haven't tried Melatonin because I really don't want to become reliant on drugs to make me sleep, but if someone offered me something at 3 in the morning, I'd probably take ANYTHING at that stage.

Any ideas, anyone???


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Have you adrenal's tested - saliva

Saliva tests revealed irregular pattern with night being highest - this is where one should be lowest on range.

I have not slept well in over 22 years - right about the time I started having kids and my Graves developed.


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## KeepOnGoing (Jan 2, 2013)

I don't think there's much chance of adrenal testing in the UK - and they are far too keen to blame menopause (does it ALWAYS have to be your age???) and taking Liothyronine to look at anything else...

Assuming your adrenals are up the creek, is there anything you can do about it?


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

*My MD did check my adrenals and they were okay, even though I did have the symptoms of adrenal fatigue. Looks like this is a pretty common problem here. I hate it. It's so bad for our brain and can lead to dementia and alzheimers, plus I just plain don't feel like I'm in my right mind when I'm up and moving around the house. It keeps me house bound sometimes because I'm afraid to go out when I don't feel mentally all 'there'. Once in awhile I might sleep 4 hours straight and then I feel pretty normal the following day and man am I ever thankful, but that's been awhile. Yeah, the MDs tend to blame this on menopause, but they seem to know as much about that as they know about thyroid disease. My MD/DO thinks it's the EMF's in this house. I slept kinda normal til I moved here after getting married in 2001. So maybe he is right, but hubby doesn't believe in such things, so I'm stuck.*

*I do remember reading about drinking some beer before bed to help you sleep. The article said beer was good because you don't wake up later on in the night like you would if you drank wine. I just happen to have some Mich Ultra Lite here so will try that tonight! Thanks for reminding me about that. I'll let you know tomorrow it if works. *


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

Do you have the results of your adrenal tests? Were they blood or saliva? Like thyroid tests, "normal" might not be normal for you to feel good.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

jenny v said:


> Do you have the results of your adrenal tests? Were they blood or saliva? Like thyroid tests, "normal" might not be normal for you to feel good.


*The lab results from the place the MD ordered this test from show a colored chart and then the time of day the tests were done (4) and where the results fall on the chart. This was not a urine test, and I can't remember now if it was saliva or blood?*

*8/19/15*

*7-9am cortisol level is within the reference range.
11am-1pm cortisol level is above the reference range.
3-5pm cortisol level is above the reference range.*

*10pm-12am cortisol level is within the reference range.*

*DHEA is below the reference range. Decreased DHEA levels may be seen in thyroid disorders, heart disease, obesity, reduced immunity, rheumatologic diseases and excess cortisol production.*

*A low DHEA: cortisol ratio is generally associated with chronic stress and hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal imbalances.While often observed in individuals as they age, it may also be associated with cognitive and mood disorders, anxiety and depressive symptoms. DHEA levels in women tend to decrease more rapidly with aging (expecially between 50-60 yrs) than DHEA levels in men.

A pattern showing one or more elevated cortisol levels in the presence of decreased DHEA is clinically significant. Elevated cortisol with decreased DHEA suggesets adrenal hyperfunction of the zona fasciculata (the primary source of cortisol) with a decreased function of the zona reticularis (the primary source of DHEA). This presentation represents a significant shift of steroidogenesis in favor of cortisol, and away from DHEA. In such a shift, there is frequently decreased aldosterone production as well. This shift may present in the presence of increased physiological or psychological stress and/or dysglycemia.

The results above are from the lab the doctor had me do the cortisol test for. I also did the test myself at another lab on my own. ZRT Laboratory, whom I have used for years. I can order my own tests from them without an MD's orders. Here are their results:

5/12/15 (urine)
Free Cortisol
2.01 Low (8.5-30.5 early morning)
21.00 (20.7-56.9 late morning)
30.05 High (7.1-17.5 early evening)
19.96 High (3.1-9.0 late evening)

Melatonin
4.31 Low (18.0-40.8 early morning)
9.33 (7.3-31.9 late morning)
0 Low (0.7-2.2 early evening)
1.51 Low (1.7-11.1late evening)*


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

*Okay, I sipped 1/2 a bottle of Mich Ultra Lite, hubby drank the rest. I did this about 9:30pm and I was in bed reading, watching 48 hours. TV went off right at 10pm. I actually went to sleep quite quickly and even though I woke up several times during the night, I went back to sleep quickly. It has to be the beer!! I'm going to try it again tonight! PTL I am not a zombie today! hugs4 *


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

Your one of the lucky ones who does not get alcohol intolerance with thyroid disease.

That little drink before bed doesn't work for me anymore.

It helps me sleep but even that 1/2 beer would make me feel real sick the next day.

The reason I don't drink anymore.

Same thing with cigarettes.

I was smoking when my thyroid started bothering me.

But after about a year I could not tolerate them.

And I quit cold turkey after 36 odd years with no problems.

"I'm glad to here your feeling better today.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

ssMarilyn said:


> *Okay, I sipped 1/2 a bottle of Mich Ultra Lite, hubby drank the rest. I did this about 9:30pm and I was in bed reading, watching 48 hours. TV went off right at 10pm. I actually went to sleep quite quickly and even though I woke up several times during the night, I went back to sleep quickly. It has to be the beer!! I'm going to try it again tonight! PTL I am not a zombie today! hugs4 *


Alcohol is actually a depressant and dehydrates you so not actually something one should get in the habit of drinking prior to bed.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

Most sleep problems are from anxiety and worrying.

One or 1/2 beer before Bed is not going to hurt you.

But if you've had a problem with alcohol in the past you should find something else to help you sleep.

Just don't get out of hand with it.

It actually help calm your nerves and will relax you.

It's better than those nasty sleep aids that make you feel strange.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

Lovlkn said:


> Alcohol is actually a depressant and dehydrates you so not actually something one should get in the habit of drinking prior to bed.


*Yup, I know all about alcohol as I do not like it and I come from a family of heavy drinkers. I would never let myself do this on a regular basis. I am desperate for sleep though, so will try this for a few more nights. It helped me last night too.*


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

creepingdeath said:


> Most sleep problems are from anxiety and worrying.
> 
> One or 1/2 beer before Bed is not going to hurt you.
> 
> ...


*Nope, never had an issue with alcohol. I might drink one beer a year and maybe, MAYBE 3 glasses of wine a year. It's just not my thing. I'm more into dark chocolate.. in the EARLY part of the day. *


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## WhatHappened (Nov 12, 2015)

Edit: sorry. I missed the bit in your first post that you had tried Chamomile

===========================

Original:

Not much of a drinker (though I enjoy it, not sure I can go back to it. I had a couple of beers the other day after abstaining until my CK levels came down and I was ruined by them).

Chamomile is supposed to also ease anxiety and relax muscles and the mind (and not cause we Mediterraneans love the stuff!).

http://www.webmd.com/vitamins-and-supplements/lifestyle-guide-11/natural-good-sleep-tips-on-melatonin-valerian


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

WhatHappened said:


> Edit: sorry. I missed the bit in your first post that you had tried Chamomile
> 
> ===========================
> 
> ...


*I love chamomile tea and have a huge mug of it every night. I use 2 bags. It's good!*


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

*Drank a Mich Ultra last night, about 3/4 a bottle, more than I wanted, but hubbers was already in bed so couldn't share it with me. I went to sleep pretty quickly and THINK that I might have slept 6 hours straight through. First time I've done that in years. I do have a headache though. I won't do the beer tonight. Just did some research on L-ornithine and it gets rave reviews from doctors and consumers alike for improving sleep with no side effects. I have it here so will try the minimum dosage tonight. *


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

Mostly commonly used sleep aid in hospital is benadryll, believe it or not. And, per my husband, the most benign. I have atrocious allergies, so I take it frequently, but the bonus is that it helps with sleep.


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## ssMarilyn (Nov 15, 2013)

joplin1975 said:


> Mostly commonly used sleep aid in hospital is benadryll, believe it or not. And, per my husband, the most benign. I have atrocious allergies, so I take it frequently, but the bonus is that it helps with sleep.


*My sister takes it every night and I refuse to do that because I read a couple of medical articles that said people that take these types of sleep aids on a regular basis have memory problems and a shorter life span. My sleep is getting better slowly.....*


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

My dad, an anesthesiologist, takes Benadryl anytime he has trouble falling asleep. I use it when I know I'll have 12-14 hours free to sleep, it totally knocks me out!


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## AgentChupa (Nov 12, 2014)

I developed sleeping problems almost a year ago (when I wasn't on thyroid meds) - unless I am insanely exhausted, I can neither fall asleep nor can I stay asleep. I never had this much trouble sleeping when I was younger, then all of a sudden I can't sleep. Tried ZZZQuil and it didn't do crap, didn't bother with NyQuil because it actually makes me hyper and there's a 50/50 chance Benadryl might make me sleep just a tiny bit longer. I've also begun needing the restroom more within the last few months - that tiny sip of water or juice I have right before bed to relieve dry mouth and/or the bitter taste I often have in my mouth somehow fills my bladder 3-4 hours later.

Absolutely nothing I do helps me sleep more. On the rare chance I fall asleep in less than 30 minutes, I wind up waking up only a couple hours later to pee, sometimes even when I go out of my way to make sure I don't drink 30-60 minutes before bed. It also doesn't help that, about 30 minutes before I normally go to bed, I sometimes get a little surge of energy. I'm a night owl and I could be tired all day (with or without taking a nap at any point), and then when I should be winding down, I "wake up" a little. I'm still tired, but I still feel like I could stay up and do stuff. From what I understand, this night-time energy surge is something that can happen to folks with hypothyroidism. No clue if it's my thyroid causing my sleeping issues, but all I know is being on Synthroid did not fix them.

I hate this because I love sleeping, and I loved it even more when I started feeling wiped out all the time. But now I'm exhausted and I can't relieve that exhaustion. It's frustrating! Sorry for my rambling - just letting you know you definitely aren't alone with the insomnia. I'm supposed to get a sleep study next month because my doctor thinks I have apnea. I almost laughed when she said that because I think I need to be able to sleep before I can have the luxury of developing apnea.


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## WhatHappened (Nov 12, 2015)

I'm a huge fan of the couch. Seriously. Sometimes it helps me to switch rooms put on the TV just loud enough to barely hear it turn my back to it and just listen ( usually good documentary that won't force me to look at it).

Might sound stupid but it helps me.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

My opinion is that we are thinking too much about not being able to sleep that we can't.

Sort of an OCD thing "a hiccup in our minds".

The puppet is right.

He is actually taking his mind off not being able to sleep by distracting his mind with the TV.

I hear and read comments about people with hypothyroidism before hormone therapy state they slept 20 hours a day.

I wonder what type of hypothyroidism they have? It surely isn't the type I have.

I have been sleep deprived ever since this so called easily treated disease started.

hypo - normal - hyper, it doesn't matter , I can't sleep.


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

The majority of sleep problems stem from cortisol being out of whack. Mine is high in the evening and night when it should be low, so I'm having to treat that (it's a process!). I would strongly suggest a 4 point cortisol saliva test if you're having sleep issues, to rule adrenal problems out.


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## blackngold (Oct 28, 2011)

It's most likely a anxiety / depression issue and yeah exercise/diet helps They want to try antidepressants but Idk that's just one more thing to wean myself from ugh this is exhausting how exactly is the saliva test better than the blood test for cortisol levels?!


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