# Soy and weight gain?



## charliejay (Jul 26, 2011)

Does anyone have a good source that I can use to learn about the effects of Soy on the Thyroid? My thyroid tests are all in range but I can't help to think that over consumption of soy products has changed my metabolism. Is it possible for your tests to be in range even though you still have a thyroid issue?


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

charliejay said:


> Does anyone have a good source that I can use to learn about the effects of Soy on the Thyroid? My thyroid tests are all in range but I can't help to think that over consumption of soy products has changed my metabolism. Is it possible for your tests to be in range even though you still have a thyroid issue?


Soy is very estrogenic. A rise in estrogen causes weight gain. And a very sluggish thyroid.

Would you like to post your thyroid results? If so, add the ranges as well.


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## charliejay (Jul 26, 2011)

T4, Total 7.2 mg/dl 4.5-12.0

TSH, 3rd generation 1.28 mIU/l 0.40-4.50

T4, FREE 1.3 NG/DL 0.8-1.8

T3, FREE 3.6 PG/ML 2.3-4.2

Thyroglobulin antibodies <20 IU/ML <20

Thyroid peroxidase AB 11 IU/ML <35

It seems they are all in range. All of my other lab tests (vitamins, hormones, ect) came out really good too. But I'm still tired all the time and I have this weight that's impossible to get off. I'm out of options here.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

charliejay said:


> T4, Total 7.2 mg/dl 4.5-12.0
> 
> TSH, 3rd generation 1.28 mIU/l 0.40-4.50
> 
> ...


You do have something autoimmune going on as evidenced by the presence of the above antibodies.

TSH, FT3 and FT4 do look good at this particular blood draw. These things do wax and wane though.

Everyone has a little bit of Thyroglobulin and TPO (antimicrosomal) but should not have Thyroglobulin Ab or TPO Ab.

That said, while most usually found in autoimmune thyyroid, this is not always the case.

Have you been seriously checked for diabetes?

What kind of diet are you following and what kind of exercise are you employing as part of your regimen?


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## charliejay (Jul 26, 2011)

Yes, I have been tested for diabetes. My blood sugar was "excellent" according to my doctor. He said that he was really impressed with my healthy lifestyle and my test results. He couldn't explain why I was so tired though. He also said that it's probably just genetics that are causing the extra weight(which is probably the best answer I've gotten so far).

As far as exercise goes. I've followed various strength training and cardio workouts. For the past few years, I've been very into kettlebell training for both strength and conditioning. Right now I'm doing a program called "Rite of Passage" which includes a cyclical strength and conditioning program that revolves around a Light, medium, heavy principle. I'm also very active in the online kettlebell community.

Now for diet. I've tried SO many things to lose weight. I've done every nutrient ratio you can think of. Zone diet, Paleo, caveman. Whatever, it's all the same. If your metabolism is broken, it doesn't matter. Right now I'm just eating when I'm hungry and nothing more. I eat all organic food. no processed sugar or carbs. lots of vegetables and lean animal protein. I've also tried the dairy and gluten free thing. I went about a year and three months on a caveman style diet. No dairy, no gluten and no sugar for over a year. Still nothing! The way I'm working, I should look like Bruce Lee, hahaha.


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## charliejay (Jul 26, 2011)

I was just reading about people who have thyroid problems even though their tests came out okay. This raises so many questions in my head. It's not like you can just TRY thyroid medication and see what happens. How do these misdiagnosis people figure out what's going on and how much thyroid medication to take? Uh, this is frustrating.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

charliejay said:


> Yes, I have been tested for diabetes. My blood sugar was "excellent" according to my doctor. He said that he was really impressed with my healthy lifestyle and my test results. He couldn't explain why I was so tired though. He also said that it's probably just genetics that are causing the extra weight(which is probably the best answer I've gotten so far).
> 
> As far as exercise goes. I've followed various strength training and cardio workouts. For the past few years, I've been very into kettlebell training for both strength and conditioning. Right now I'm doing a program called "Rite of Passage" which includes a cyclical strength and conditioning program that revolves around a Light, medium, heavy principle. I'm also very active in the online kettlebell community.
> 
> Now for diet. I've tried SO many things to lose weight. I've done every nutrient ratio you can think of. Zone diet, Paleo, caveman. Whatever, it's all the same. If your metabolism is broken, it doesn't matter. Right now I'm just eating when I'm hungry and nothing more. I eat all organic food. no processed sugar or carbs. lots of vegetables and lean animal protein. I've also tried the dairy and gluten free thing. I went about a year and three months on a caveman style diet. No dairy, no gluten and no sugar for over a year. Still nothing! The way I'm working, I should look like Bruce Lee, hahaha.


Do you stay on the diet regimen religiously 7 days a week? How much weight would you like to lose? As you know, it's not always how much you weigh but how you look and feel. Especially if you are lifting weights. Muscle mass weighs more.

I don't agree exactly about the genetic disposition.

Have you ever had a Ferritin test?

Ferritin http://www.thewayup.com/newsletters/081504.htm
(should be 50 to 100; the closer to 100, the better)


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

With a TSH so close to 1 you would be hard pressed to convince a doctor to trial you on thyroid meds, IMHO.

When you say weight....do you mean, you are weight training and can't lose the body fat to achieve muscle definition, or do you mean your BMI puts you into the "obese" category?

There are quite a few younger men here have low testosterone--ie, the labs are normal, but low in the range--when you said that your hormone were normal, could that be the case there? Younger men should actually be quite high in the range and a lot of doctors don't recognize that.


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## I DClaire (Jul 31, 2011)

charliejay said:


> I was just reading about people who have thyroid problems even though their tests came out okay. This raises so many questions in my head. It's not like you can just TRY thyroid medication and see what happens. How do these misdiagnosis people figure out what's going on and how much thyroid medication to take? Uh, this is frustrating.


This has been my question all along. I won't even pretend to know a lot about the various tests and translating the results into any possible indicator of how the patient feels but after dealing with thyroid problems for four years I am above and beyond frustrated.

I've wondered if a patient stayed on their medication schedule religiously, if they never missed a dose and had labs drawn every 4-6 hours if the results would be consistent? Right now I do relatively well ("relatively" being an enormous consideration) until around noon...then the remainder of my day is painfully exhausting.

When I tried to tell my endocrinologist how I feel and that I can't help believing I need to split my Armour or take two doses, she laughed and said she'd hate to see me do that. I love her and respect her BUT if she didn't have the energy and stamina to see patients and then go home to enjoy her family I don't think she'd laugh.

The #1 thing I'd like to see happen as far as treatment for thyroid problems is more healthcare professionals trusting what their patients say as much as what test results indicate.


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

> I've wondered if a patient stayed on their medication schedule religiously, if they never missed a dose and had labs drawn every 4-6 hours if the results would be consistent?


Consistent? No. Thyroid labs are going to be variable, there are not really "set" numbers to achieve and maintain because there are so many other factors involved--other hormone, general health and even season of the year are just a few of the things that influence them.

The OP has labs that could be considered nearly ideal and a smattering of antibodies to a level found in the normal population.

I don't know any middle aged adults that don't complain about their weight and being tired. Does that mean they all have thyroid problems?

Statistically, it doesn't work that there should be so many people as you see in forums, lobbying to be in that bottom 5th percentile of the population, saying that their numbers need to be sub clinically hyper in order to function. Doctors that don't believe their patients? Is it because they see the other 95%? Once your labs come into range (or if they are already there), and even into the much narrower ACCE ranges, if the patient is still not "feeling well" I think you really need to factor in outside influences. There is only so much that one little pill will achieve.

Quite frankly, I think people are overly focused on the numbers.


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## I DClaire (Jul 31, 2011)

lainey said:


> I don't know any middle aged adults that don't complain about their weight and being tired. Does that mean they all have thyroid problems?
> 
> Quite frankly, I think people are overly focused on the numbers.


lainey, are you suggesting doctors or patients are overly focused on numbers?

I'm 65 and more of my friends and neighbors who are my age seem to be enjoying life than complaining about their health. I'm envious. I don't believe everybody who complains that they don't feel well has a thyroid problem - my only point is I believe I have a thyroid problem and I'm wondering how I'm ever going to find a correct dosage of hormone supplement if testing and prescribing based on numbers is tantamount to shooting at a moving target?

When my endocrinologist is afraid to prescribe a slightly higher dosage of Armour because she fears I might quickly become hyperthyroid yet I feel woefully under-medicated and would certainly cease and desist the first moment I did feel hyperthyroid, am I not suffering needlessly?

I know my body well enough to know (not to mention my track record with thyroid tests) how I feel and, trust me, everything has been ruled out that can be tested...so when and how does all this ever get resolved? My cardiologist says my heart is strong, that my symptoms there are thyroid related. The ONLY thing my Internist can find is my cholesterol is slightly elevated. I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle.


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## miguel (Jul 18, 2011)

My brother is euthyroid, his results were as follows:

TSH 1.59 uUI/ml (0.34-5.60)
T4, Thyroxine (total) 6.16 ug/dl (6.09-12.23)
T4, Free 1.37 ng/dl (0.90-1.50)
T3, Free 3.5 pg/dl (2.9-4.6) ''14 to 17 years range''

I think you can compare to him. You must get your labs B12, vitamin D, ferritin and testosterone, I doubt you have a thyroid disease and therefore unlikely that the medication will help.


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

> are you suggesting doctors or patients are overly focused on numbers?


I think patients are overly focused on numbers, particularly the small percentage of the population you see online. If you assume that you only hear from people if they have problems, there is a large percentage of patients who are not posting online, but who are treated, who would be presumably functioning well (and this is also for all those "misdiagnosed" that you read about online too).



> I'm wondering how I'm ever going to find a correct dosage of hormone supplement if testing and prescribing based on numbers is tantamount to shooting at a moving target?


This is because you are viewing this as if there is a bullseye to this target. Thyroid hormones are dynamic, and there are fairly wide ranges for a reason--because broad studies of the population have found wide variations.

That said, the problem with treating thyroid disease is also that people discount that it takes time to heal after your numbers have been euthyroid. Early in my treatment, even after my numbers were "normal" it was some months before my body found equilibrium. Each dosage change affects that equilibrium. At some point, it is useful to leave the medication alone, when the numbers are good, and allow the body time to work things out.

Some things don't ever get resolved. This is what living with a chronic disease is all about. Each stage of life is about finding a new normal.


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## charliejay (Jul 26, 2011)

Andros said:


> Do you stay on the diet regimen religiously 7 days a week? How much weight would you like to lose? As you know, it's not always how much you weigh but how you look and feel. Especially if you are lifting weights. Muscle mass weighs more.
> 
> I don't agree exactly about the genetic disposition.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm very consistent in my diet. I RARELY get cravings. My discipline is second to none. when I did that gluten free, dairy free, sugar free diet, I didn't cheat even once. In fact, I was quite paranoid about it.
Ideally, I would just like to go back to the size I was before I started gaining weight so suddenly. so I would say about 30-35lbs. Hm, I have never had a Ferritin test. I will have to look into it. I don't have insurance at the moment though so it's hard.


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## charliejay (Jul 26, 2011)

I have also had my testosterone checked and it came out normal. No, I don't care about my BMI. It's more about body fat%. I'm at about 22-23% and for someone my age, activity level and lifestyle I should be at about half that. I am also a martial artist so this is particularly frustrating. That extra weight really effects my athleticism.

I know this might sound close minded but trust me, I don't need any help on my diet or exercise anymore. I've talked to so many doctors and read so many books I could be a personal trainer at this point. When I WAS in control of my weight, my body responded to everything I did. If I ate junk, I would gain weight, if I moved around, I would lose weight. At 20 years old I was 145lbs and ripped at my lightest and 21 I had gained about 30-35 pounds and felt like crap. I can't help but think something went wrong.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

charliejay said:


> I have also had my testosterone checked and it came out normal. No, I don't care about my BMI. It's more about body fat%. I'm at about 22-23% and for someone my age, activity level and lifestyle I should be at about half that. I am also a martial artist so this is particularly frustrating. That extra weight really effects my athleticism.
> 
> I know this might sound close minded but trust me, I don't need any help on my diet or exercise anymore. I've talked to so many doctors and read so many books I could be a personal trainer at this point. When I WAS in control of my weight, my body responded to everything I did. If I ate junk, I would gain weight, if I moved around, I would lose weight. At 20 years old I was 145lbs and ripped at my lightest and 21 I had gained about 30-35 pounds and felt like crap. I can't help but think something went wrong.


I trust you; no one knows their body better than the owner of that body.

It is my suspicion that you indeed do have thyroid problems even though you have low titers of TPO Ab and Thyroglobulin Ab. These are antibodies that should not be present at all.

You see, there are binding, blocking and stimulating antibodies which in fact, if active, can skew your test results.

Consider these tests.

Thyroxine Binding Globulin (TBG).
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003374.htm

Even though you don't think hyper, it has to be ruled out as symptoms do cross over. I and others have gained weight while hyper.

TSI
Normally, there is no TSI in the blood. If TSI is found in the blood, this indicates that the thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin is the cause of the of a person's hyperthyroidism. 
http://www.medicineonline.com/topics/t/2/Thyroid-Stimulating-Immunoglobulin/TSI.html

If you are hyper, RBC will be high. If hypo, it will be low
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(76)91920-6/abstract

TBII (Thyrotrophin Binding Inhibiting Immunoglobulin)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1969138

Also, an ultra-sound of your thyroid would be a very very good idea.

And for everyone's edification, I have observed that most people w/autoimmune disease are very low in Ferritin and Vitamin D. So, results of these tests "could" be revealing.


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

> At 20 years old I was 145lbs and ripped at my lightest and 21 I had gained about 30-35 pounds and felt like crap. I can't help but think something went wrong.


The BMR you have in your teens is not what you will have in your 20's and not what you will have in your 30's. Most people do gain weight each year as they age, and it is part of the normal natural progression of your metabolism. Thats not to say that unusual weight gain should not be investigated. As for weight loss, people are often disappointed in thyroid treatment, because they think or want it alone to help them lose weight when it often does not.

Just because your body is not where you want it to be does not mean there is something abnormal with your metabolism--unfortunately at the moment your numbers really are quite fine.

For the moment I am more willing to blame the weight gain on the soy consumption--as much as soy isoflavones are connected to weight loss, over consumption of them is also connected to weight gain. The issue for anyone, regardless, is once you have gained significant weight, how to lose it. Even if you have stopped over consuming the soy, that is not to say that 30 pounds will move at the same rate as 5 pounds may have in your past.

You say that your diet is clean---what about supplements?


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## charliejay (Jul 26, 2011)

lainey said:


> The BMR you have in your teens is not what you will have in your 20's and not what you will have in your 30's. Most people do gain weight each year as they age, and it is part of the normal natural progression of your metabolism. Thats not to say that unusual weight gain should not be investigated. As for weight loss, people are often disappointed in thyroid treatment, because they think or want it alone to help them lose weight when it often does not.
> 
> Just because your body is not where you want it to be does not mean there is something abnormal with your metabolism--unfortunately at the moment your numbers really are quite fine.
> 
> ...


I stopped the soy years ago because I was so freaked out by it. haha.

As far as supplements go, I've tried many, many things. Especially went I started getting into functional medicine because they all all about supplements(total BS in my opinion). Right now I take Fish oil, a multi vitamin, vitamin D, Magnesium oil and the occasional protein shake. The shakes are usually Raw Rice protein or Whey. I personally think all supplements are overrated. I never feel any different no matter what I take.

Oh yeah, there is something I forgot to mention. One interesting thing about my weight gain is that it's perfectly even throughout my body. I have a lot of fat on my legs and arms. Also my back. Most people gain more weight in their gut(most likely from insulin resistance) but mine is very even. supposedly, it's much healthier that way. It still sucks though.
Another thing that I have which I could never figure out is that I shake quite a bit, especially after I work out. Sometimes people point it out to me and I'm really insecure about it.
I also tend to sleep about 12 hours or more a day. And my tolerance for mental and physical stress is terrible.


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

This may sound like a stupid question (because I believe you are a male), but have you had estrogen levels tested? (I know they sometimes test testosterone in females, but do they test estrogen in males???) Shot in the dark...


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## charliejay (Jul 26, 2011)

Octavia said:


> This may sound like a stupid question (because I believe you are a male), but have you had estrogen levels tested? (I know they sometimes test testosterone in females, but do they test estrogen in males???) Shot in the dark...


No, that is a pretty good question in my opinion. I plan on having them checked as soon as I have insurance again(don't know when that'll be). I don't have too many symptoms of estrogen dominance besides the weight gain. I also want to have my Human growth hormone tested among other things. I actually have a little list that I'm preparing next time I go to the doctor. He is pretty cooperative so I'm sure he'll do them. He's the first doctor that I've had that is cool about requesting tests.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

charliejay said:


> I stopped the soy years ago because I was so freaked out by it. haha.
> 
> As far as supplements go, I've tried many, many things. Especially went I started getting into functional medicine because they all all about supplements(total BS in my opinion). Right now I take Fish oil, a multi vitamin, vitamin D, Magnesium oil and the occasional protein shake. The shakes are usually Raw Rice protein or Whey. I personally think all supplements are overrated. I never feel any different no matter what I take.
> 
> ...


Sure sounds like hypoglycemia to me. Are you sure your doc said glucose is great? What kind of glucose test did you have? What about adrenals/cortisol? Has that been tested?


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## charliejay (Jul 26, 2011)

Andros said:


> Sure sounds like hypoglycemia to me. Are you sure your doc said glucose is great? What kind of glucose test did you have? What about adrenals/cortisol? Has that been tested?


I've had my blood sugar tested many times. It always comes out great. I have also had my adrenal/cortisol tests done and they came out normal too.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

charliejay said:


> I've had my blood sugar tested many times. It always comes out great. I have also had my adrenal/cortisol tests done and they came out normal too.


So, you had exactly this test?

http://hypoglykemie.nl/gtt.htm

Bear in mind that I have a very strong desire to solve your mystery.


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## charliejay (Jul 26, 2011)

Andros said:


> So, you had exactly this test?
> 
> http://hypoglykemie.nl/gtt.htm
> 
> Bear in mind that I have a very strong desire to solve your mystery.


Hm, I don't believe I have. I'll request it when I go back to the doctor. Thanks for helping me with everything. That's really nice of you


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

charliejay said:


> Hm, I don't believe I have. I'll request it when I go back to the doctor. Thanks for helping me with everything. That's really nice of you


It is my pleasure. Being nice and helping others if I can do so, keeps my cup full.

Attitude is everything!


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