# help! hashi ups and downs but normal antibodies



## cduval04 (Mar 12, 2010)

I have had thyroid issues long enough to recognize changes and I feel like my thyroid level has switched from high to low. I have had TPO antibodies done twice testing for hashis but they were negative at less than 10 normal is less than 35. I dont care what I have my levels have been all over the spectrum, and I KNOW from the way I feel I have been in both hyPER and hyPO states.

what I havent figured out is what I may do to trigger a hypo state. I tend to have "stints" where I do things differently

1) how much do peanuts actually affect the thyroid? I learned about PB2 on the weight watcher forums they sell it here http://store.bellplantation.com/PB2_Powdered_Peanut_Butter_s/3.htm I know looks gross but its actually really good. I have been eating it ever since, I only don't eat it when I run out for awhile. They say only uncooked goitrogens affect your thyroid and since regular peanut butter has the peanuts roasted it is supposedly not an issue but i am not sure the same is true with PB2. At times, I have gone through a jar in a week. I average 2-3 servings (serv. size 2 tbsp) a day.

also, do any over the counter pain meds affect thyroid? I have been taking NSAIDS in high doses for back pain and joint pain and headaches.

I have added Flexeril and Risperidone to my med regimen. doses are both small, 10mg and 0.5mg respectively

I stopped my probiotic because I ran out and puritans pride is out of stock which is where I get them from. Will be getting more becuase I have felt horrid without it

I added a benzoyl peroxide 10% acne wash to my regimen, I was using salicylic acid before.

I also LOVE almond breeze, I live on the stuff and no longer consume milk. it goes in everything. I dont know if this is a "soy" product but it does say soy lecithin on the ingredients dont know what that is but if it says soy its probably soy

could any of these caused my thyroid levels to drop so that it would be noticeable to sensitive individuals? I will get my levels checked but in the meantime, any advice foods that can BOOST thyroid levels, things I should stop doing would help.

all I know is that I feel like total dookie, and school begins in 1 week.

thanks, 
luv you guys are awesome!!!


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## GD Women (Mar 5, 2007)

cduval04 said:


> I have had thyroid issues long enough to recognize changes and I feel like my thyroid level has switched from high to low. I have had TPO antibodies done twice testing for hashis but they were negative at less than 10 normal is less than 35. I dont care what I have my levels have been all over the spectrum, and I KNOW from the way I feel I have been in both hyPER and hyPO states.
> 
> what I havent figured out is what I may do to trigger a hypo state. I tend to have "stints" where I do things differently
> 
> ...


Well, I have had thyroid long enough that it still fools me. When I feel a little hypo and my hyper symptoms are gone, I think my levels are hypo or at least in Labs normal range, but I am completely wrong and I am hyper, again! My Labs prove me wrong time after time after time.

Over the counter medication labels should state not to be taken if thyroid.

To actually effect the thyroid over abundance would need to be consumed.
I use to eat a lot of peanuts but now I eat a lot of raw almonds, walnuts, pecans and sunflower seeds.

Your other issues I know nothing about, so cannot comment. Other members may.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

cduval04 said:


> I have had thyroid issues long enough to recognize changes and I feel like my thyroid level has switched from high to low. I have had TPO antibodies done twice testing for hashis but they were negative at less than 10 normal is less than 35. I dont care what I have my levels have been all over the spectrum, and I KNOW from the way I feel I have been in both hyPER and hyPO states.
> 
> what I havent figured out is what I may do to trigger a hypo state. I tend to have "stints" where I do things differently
> 
> ...


Hi there!! Any product containing salicytes (aspirin) would be goitrogenic. Definitely.

You should not have these antibodies. Because they are in the range does not mean that is normal and I am saddened that doctors don't realize this. Ranges for antibodies are used to detect "movement" from the original "baseline" i. e. first labs detecting these antibodies.

Are you on thyroxine replacement? What do your thryoid labs look like. We would also need the ranges.


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## CA-Lynn (Apr 29, 2010)

Check your vitamin D.


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## cduval04 (Mar 12, 2010)

hi andros is that really true about the salicylates? that is really interesting.

Yes I am on levothyroxine which I began at 25mcg in january of 2009, 1 year later I was upped to 50mcg. I have had a slu of thyroid labs done. all have TSH, most have total T4 and some have free T4. none have FT3, I begged and the best I could get was 1 total T3 out of all the tests. here they are in order.

from most recent to older (all TSH's have a nl range of 0.28-3.89 and all total T4 nl range from 4.5-12.8, Free T4's nl range is from 0.58-1.64) unless otherwise noted

in july 2010 I had another TSH and total T4...I can;t remember the results and don't seem to have them. I think FT$ was like 0.8 (range was like 0.6-1.2) and my TSH was around 2ish
in june of 2010 my TSH was 2.08 (normal= 0.4-5.0) my total t4 was 9.3 (normal= 4.5-10.9) my free t4 was 1.2 (normal= 0.9-1.8) and my total t3 was 145 (normal= 60-181)
in dec of 09 my TSH was 4.12 my total t4 was 9.2
nov 9th 2009 my TSH was 5.1 my total T4 was 0.8. 
In 8/09 my TSH was 1.2, lowest ever, 
in 7/09 my TSH was 2.33 and my total T4 was 8.8 
In 12/08 TSH was 7.7. In 2/09 TSH was 1.76 my total T4 was 11.5, free T4 was 0.8. 
In 9/08 my TSH was 2.73, total T4 was 11.0. 
In 6/08 TSH was 7.97, total T4 was 10.6. 
3 weeks later TSH was 3.93,total T4 was 8.9. Free T4 was 1.1
In 1/08 TSH was 3.30 and those are all the thyroid tests I have had. I was a fat kid and there were some done when I was young, like 10 or 11 yo, and they were elevated, but at the time I had bigger issues going on in my life.

Between 2003 and 2005 I lost 75lbs I have since gained back all that plus 30. Hashis just seems to fit so much b/c I have cycles of increased appetite, sweating, fast pulse, greasy skin, anxiety, insomnia, increase sex drive, and then I sleep all day dont have a big appetite, depressed, fatigue i can't describe in words, skin starts peeling, hair grows slower & strands fall out, BP and pulse are lower and this has been going on for a few years now.

The interesting thing is I have these red welts like mosquito bites and they itch like hell my whole body itches, I am seeing the doctor tomorrow but the nurse on the phone said it sounds like hives. it doesn't really look like hives to me, in fact I was over at the bed bug forum because I still believe something is biting me in my sleep but then I looked up hives on the net and the 3rd result on Google was a site called hives.org by a Dr. tiffany young who is a board certified dermatologist in MA and the following quote appeared on her FAQ about hives page.

_"How Are Thyroid & Hives Related?

Over the last 20 years of my practice, I have seen thyroid and hives being closely related in about 10% of cases. Some people with chronic hives have a high level of anti-thyroid antibodies in their system, which can cause a hives rash."_

here is a collection of pictures of what some of my skin rash looks like, it is also on the back of my neck, inside of my thighs, some on my torso, a couple on my feet, and my buttox is covered with them. I only pictured my leg and arm so you don't have to worry about seeing anything graphic lol

I have been battling an unknown illness for over 2 years now. I have had urine coritsols salivary cortisols, 5-HIAA, a couple urine metanephrines and catecholamines, thyroids (clearly) a bunch of CBC's a couple liver panels, an ecg, a stress/PET scan, glucagon stim test, dexamthazone stim test and those are just the ones I can think of right now.
and everything is either normal or "borderline" so everyone thinks I am just depressed anxious and fat, however they do not feel what I feel and some of what I feel I cannot "talk myself" into feeling. Whatever is is though, I think it will show it's nasty little head at some point

sorry about the long post but its really not possible to abbreviate with me, this is about as short as it gets. I'm sure you understand

thanks for any input/advice you can give


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

http://www.thyroidmanager.org/Chapter5/chapter5a.html You have to scroll way down to find salicylates but I assure you they are goitrogenic. You should read this; very very interesting.

Here is excerpt.

Salicylates. Acetylsalycilic acid has been identified as the most commonly administered medication which may cause significant alterations in measured parameters of thyroid function.[224b],[224c] Salicylate and its noncalorigenic congeners (Fig. 5-3) compete for thyroid hormone-binding sites on serum TTR and TBG.[225-228] As a result, the serum concentrations of T4 and T3 decline and their free fractions increase.[228] The turnover rate of T4 is accelerated, but degradation rates remain normal.[225, 226] Salicylate and its noncalorigenic congeners also suppress the thyroidal RAIU but do not retard iodine release from the thyroid gland.[312] The impaired respone to TRH[313] and the hypermetabolic effect[314] of salicylates have been attributed to the increase in the FT4 and FT3 fractions. If this were correct, hormonal release from the serum-binding proteins should produce only a temporary suppression of the thyroidal RAIU and transient hypermetabolism, but both effects are observed during chronic administration of salicylates.[225, 226] In addition, this mechanism of action does not explain the lack of calorigenic effect of some salicylate congeners despite their ability to also displace thyroid hormone from its serum-binding proteins.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

cduval04 said:


> hi andros is that really true about the salicylates? that is really interesting.
> 
> Yes I am on levothyroxine which I began at 25mcg in january of 2009, 1 year later I was upped to 50mcg. I have had a slu of thyroid labs done. all have TSH, most have total T4 and some have free T4. none have FT3, I begged and the best I could get was 1 total T3 out of all the tests. here they are in order.
> 
> ...


You know what? I think you might have Discoid Lupus.

Here are photos..........

http://health-pictures.com/discoid-lupus-erythematosus.htm

http://health.allrefer.com/health/s...pus-discoid-view-of-lesions-on-the-chest.html

http://www.lib.uiowa.edu/hardin/md/dermnet/lupus.html

I think you need to see a rheumatologist and get Anti-DNA, C3 and C4 tests run. Never mind ANA. It is not absolute for Lupus.

You are horribly undermedicated. Keeping the TSH in line also keeps Lupus quiet.

Good thing you posted those photos. I may be right, I may be wrong but you have to find out.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

cduval04 said:


> hi andros is that really true about the salicylates? that is really interesting.
> 
> Yes I am on levothyroxine which I began at 25mcg in january of 2009, 1 year later I was upped to 50mcg. I have had a slu of thyroid labs done. all have TSH, most have total T4 and some have free T4. none have FT3, I begged and the best I could get was 1 total T3 out of all the tests. here they are in order.
> 
> ...


By the way, do these eruptions hurt? Discoid eruptions can be very painful. And they don't heal up easily either.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

cduval04 said:


> I have had thyroid issues long enough to recognize changes and I feel like my thyroid level has switched from high to low. I have had TPO antibodies done twice testing for hashis but they were negative at less than 10 normal is less than 35. I dont care what I have my levels have been all over the spectrum, and I KNOW from the way I feel I have been in both hyPER and hyPO states.
> 
> what I havent figured out is what I may do to trigger a hypo state. I tend to have "stints" where I do things differently
> 
> ...


Lupus Vulgaris (tuberculosis of the skin) http://www.dermatologyinfo.net/english/chapters/chapter07.htm#50


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## cduval04 (Mar 12, 2010)

wow thank you so much...I just look at it every day so I needed someone else to see it with a fresh perspective. I had suspected lupus before just becuase of the "widespread" nature of my symptoms, but never persued it.

that is very interesting about the skin TB....they dont really hurt unless I scratch them (some of them itch) then they hurt until they scab over.

it will be interesting to hear what the doc says tommorow. I will let you know.

ps if you do end up being right and I get better, wherever you live I would like to see you in person and give you a hug!!! I have been battling an illness that no one thinks exist except me and my mom (she is the only one who still belives something is wrong) somedays are really bad and I wish I would just go into cardiac arrest or something so I could wake up and tell everyone who doubted me or said I was OCD "I told you so." I know that is bad to think but sometimes I get so mad.


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## cduval04 (Mar 12, 2010)

Andros said:


> By the way, do these eruptions hurt? Discoid eruptions can be very painful. And they don't heal up easily either.


They didn't hurt when u wrote this but yes, now a couple of them hurt.....I spent a lot of time in the sun today and felt that prickly feeling b4 I sweat and now the one on my back is driving me nuts whenever I sit back it hurts. There's one on my flank that hurts as well

Well I got home from my PCP she ordered a CRP, an ANA and lyme IGG and IGM antibodies. All these years having tourette syndrome and I only am just learning about the autoimmune tourette's correlaton esp. W/ lyme.

Also on the lupus thing I think u really may be onto something. I didn't realize how many pix of my face I'd taken in the last year cuz there could be a lupus rash or two in my collecton (the one with me in the red tank-top looks esp. butterfly"ish") but u have lupus, so maybe u can tell me. These were all taken when I was feeling like dookie.....some of them just look like a pulled my head out of an oven haha

CA-Lynn and anyone else, Is it likely that I still don't have sufficient vit D if if I am taking 2000 IU per day (pill form)??

I am going to be totally blown away if all these tests are negative.....I honestly don't know where to go next....I feel so helpless.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


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## daisydaisy (May 12, 2010)

Here is interesting food for thought. They did panel studies and found that people who were bi-polar..hi /low mood have thyroid issues and most were put on thyroid pills instead of ssri's. They got better! Makes sense because thyroid affects mood and hormones so yessss i'm sure your right. You are so in tune with your body that you can feel it but your tests still come out in the normal range. I find eating really really really healthy helps minimize the hi-lows...but u still get them


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

cduval04 said:


> wow thank you so much...I just look at it every day so I needed someone else to see it with a fresh perspective. I had suspected lupus before just becuase of the "widespread" nature of my symptoms, but never persued it.
> 
> that is very interesting about the skin TB....they dont really hurt unless I scratch them (some of them itch) then they hurt until they scab over.
> 
> ...


I will take that hug; right or wrong!! LOL!~ Let me say this to you, "If you already suspected Lupus" I am suspecting it even more. We must learn to listen to our bodies and our "instincts!" Who would know their body better than the owner of that body.

Please do let me know and I am saying prayers for you also. I "truly" am.

And thank God for moms!!!

And yes, scratch because they itch, then they break open, scab over and hurt like heck. Yep!!


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