# graves and hashimoto



## msamericanpatriot (Apr 8, 2011)

Can Grave's Disease morph or eventually become Hashimoto's Disease?


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

msamericanpatriot said:


> Can Grave's Disease morph or eventually become Hashimoto's Disease?


I know for sure that many w/Hashimoto's do go on to have Graves' but not the other way around.

The things that distinguish Graves' from Hashimoto's in the hyper state are exophthalmos, goiter, pretibial myxedema and thryotoxicosis as per Dr. Robert Graves for whom the disease is named.

What's going on? Care to elucidate?

Welcome!


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## msamericanpatriot (Apr 8, 2011)

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/stories-of-others/andreas-story/

I know for certain I have hypothyroidism. I have been to TWO endcrinologists for it. One is male and in a medical grouping. The other is female and in private practice. The third one and the one doing the most help of them all is male and is originally by trade a chiropractor trained under Dr Datis Kharrazian author of the book Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms? When My Lab Tests Are Normal: A Revolutionary Breakthrough In Understanding Hashimoto's Disease and Hypothyroidism (http://www.amazon.com/Still-Thyroid-Symptoms-Tests-Normal/dp/1600376703/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1). He has run more test on me and more variety of tests on me than the other two combined. The other two have mainly test my blood and then tinker with my thyroid medication. Now I have symptoms of hyper and hypo. The male endo had the cops called on me when I went into a suicidal rage back in Jan of this year. This was when my father had just come home from having knee surgery so the neighbors though it was him going crazy and NOT me but I am still embarrassed by it. My mood swings are so bad I fear being left alone because I have clearly stated how I would kill myself via the gas logs we have. I can NOT take ANY anti depressants anymore because NONE of them work for me. I have been on them and then eventually get on the maximum dose and they quit. Not even valium on insane dosages help me. The chiropractor says in about seven years if things kept going the way they are I could develop Hashimoto's but the more I read about Grave's the more it "screams" me. If I didn't see this guy when I did in about six months to a year I would have killed my parents and myself. That is how engulfing my depression is. I describe my depressive episodes as being like the famous painting The Scream. It is like I am screaming in side and I just want it to hush. I know there is no cure for it but I want it to calm down so I can go about and back to things I love doing like riding horses (dressage nut here). The link at the top of this post is more of my story with hypothyroidism.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

msamericanpatriot said:


> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/stories-of-others/andreas-story/
> 
> I know for certain I have hypothyroidism. I have been to TWO endcrinologists for it. One is male and in a medical grouping. The other is female and in private practice. The third one and the one doing the most help of them all is male and is originally by trade a chiropractor trained under Dr Datis Kharrazian author of the book Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms? When My Lab Tests Are Normal: A Revolutionary Breakthrough In Understanding Hashimoto's Disease and Hypothyroidism (http://www.amazon.com/Still-Thyroid-Symptoms-Tests-Normal/dp/1600376703/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1). He has run more test on me and more variety of tests on me than the other two combined. The other two have mainly test my blood and then tinker with my thyroid medication. Now I have symptoms of hyper and hypo. The male endo had the cops called on me when I went into a suicidal rage back in Jan of this year. This was when my father had just come home from having knee surgery so the neighbors though it was him going crazy and NOT me but I am still embarrassed by it. My mood swings are so bad I fear being left alone because I have clearly stated how I would kill myself via the gas logs we have. I can NOT take ANY anti depressants anymore because NONE of them work for me. I have been on them and then eventually get on the maximum dose and they quit. Not even valium on insane dosages help me. The chiropractor says in about seven years if things kept going the way they are I could develop Hashimoto's but the more I read about Grave's the more it "screams" me. If I didn't see this guy when I did in about six months to a year I would have killed my parents and myself. That is how engulfing my depression is. I describe my depressive episodes as being like the famous painting The Scream. It is like I am screaming in side and I just want it to hush. I know there is no cure for it but I want it to calm down so I can go about and back to things I love doing like riding horses (dressage nut here). The link at the top of this post is more of my story with hypothyroidism.


Sounds like Graves' Rage to me. Bless your little heart! There is one test that would solve the issue; actually 2 tests.

TSI
Normally, there is no TSI in the blood. If TSI is found in the blood, this indicates that the thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin is the cause of the of a person's hyperthyroidism.

http://www.medicineonline.com/topics/t/2/Thyroid-Stimulating-Immunoglobulin/TSI.html

and RAIU (radioactive uptake scan.) Rate of uptake would be important and cancer must be ruled out.

I am going to your link now for your story.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

msamericanpatriot said:


> Can Grave's Disease morph or eventually become Hashimoto's Disease?


Oh, gosh.........................just read your story. Holy cats!! Well, I do think that you are now hyperthyroid but not necessarily Graves'. You would have to have the things I listed to qualify and you don't want to qualify for that.

Get the TSI and the RAIU. That is my humble advice.

Are you on the Armour now? If you are, what is the dose amount and could you post your most recent labs for thyroid panel with the ranges? We need the ranges as different labs use diffenent ranges.


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## msamericanpatriot (Apr 8, 2011)

Andros said:


> Oh, gosh.........................just read your story. Holy cats!! Well, I do think that you are now hyperthyroid but not necessarily Graves'. You would have to have the things I listed to qualify and you don't want to qualify for that.
> 
> Get the TSI and the RAIU. That is my humble advice.
> 
> Are you on the Armour now? If you are, what is the dose amount and could you post your most recent labs for thyroid panel with the ranges? We need the ranges as different labs use diffenent ranges.


Yeah I am on 120mgs of Armour and the chriopractor says that is too much but that is what is listed on the bottle from the female endo who prescribes them to me. I am in the process of getting urine, fecal and saliva tests from this chiropractor as well as blood work.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

msamericanpatriot said:


> Yeah I am on 120mgs of Armour and the chriopractor says that is too much but that is what is listed on the bottle from the female endo who prescribes them to me. I am in the process of getting urine, fecal and saliva tests from this chiropractor as well as blood work.


Yeah..........wow!! I am not sure you should be on it if you are indeed hyperthyroid now.

Will be anxious to see the labs and ranges you get from the chiro if you care to share.


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## Chromatic (Mar 31, 2011)

I just wanted to comment on this post.

I can feel your emotional pain and frustration. I am going through something that has been chronic for many years now and looking into the Thyroid based on an abnormal test. I won't say I know exactly how you feel, as it sounds like you cycle a bit more severely than I through these states,.. but I do know what the hopeless depression feels like, the indescribable feeling of being immensely restless inside, unable to really sit still and relax.. yet be incredibly physically and mentally exhausted at the same time and so on.

I know what it feels like to feel like you are the only person in the world feeling as miserable as you do.. you are not.

I am glad you found this third doctor, chiropractor or not,.. that is treating you seriously despite your 'history'. What you have listed would scare or at least tend to bias many doctors to a pure psychiatric diagnosis with little to no room for a physiological reason -- so seeing you have a doctor that is addressing the physical is immensely good to hear.

Hang in there, and just never give up.. things can literally change overnight, or in a few weeks/months with certain therapies.

Lastly, to your specific question -- from my research I know that some less common pituitary (hypothalamus) issues can create a wavering and fluctuating function of the thyroid, even if the thyroid itself is fairly healthy. Though there should be some abnormal tests that flip back and forth if you are tested with regularity that would point to something residing in the brain and not the thyroid alone.

I have to agree with Andros medically here of course.. get the more specific testing done to see where you are right 'now' in terms of your thyroid function and then you can weave that in with your therapy and future medical treatment.

I mean no offense with this statement, but finding a new psychologist/psychiatrist who has a sense of physical/physiological dysfunction creating or highly exacerbating mental illness would likely be of great benefit. (It would benefit MOST of us.. they are just hard to find.)

Take care,


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## msamericanpatriot (Apr 8, 2011)

With my autism and developmental disabilities as well as TWENTY FIVE years of pyschotherapy, I do NOT trust pyscharists anymore. They have done a LOT of emotional damage to me. The last one I went to at age 38 told me point blank to my face I was incapable of love. He made me feel like the Beast from Beauty and the Beast.Pyscharists LOVE to dictate to the intellectually challenged how they should live their lives. I have a heart and it feels. I would LOVE to know what it is like to have a boyfriend. You see society doesn't think of us wanting or should have those things. They want us out of sight and out of mind. There are few individuals that are of the non disabled slant that are tirelessly working on inclusion for us. I will NOT go to another shrink unless I know that shrink is autistic themselves. That is how badly I have been burned by these individuals.


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## Chromatic (Mar 31, 2011)

I understand, I was hoping not to derail, so to speak, your question/thread with my inclusion of the psyche.  -- I really do understand. I have been to one psychiatrist period, and I don't trust them. I didn't trust them before I saw one years ago. This of course, rationally, doesn't mean that they are all untrustworthy, etc of course. Just that , in general, even though they are medical doctors on paper, they are going to generally throw a bunch of psychotropic medications and do little if anything to help YOU as a person, or the problem, or look outside of the 'psychological box' they live in.

In this case, I would be just looking for a good psychologist (you know the ones who can't prescribe medication,  ) -- that has treated autism, and has a very good track record for results. This is simply just for the cathartic relief from being able to vent all your thoughts to someone you trust 'relatively' without judgement.. and maybe even get some useful advice every now and then. .But, as with all things it can take alot of digging to find one that 'fits' -- but I do know that finding a good psychologist is alot easier than a psychiatrist.

But enough of that..

For now I would get the more specific thyroid testing to help see what 'physically' is going on.


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## msamericanpatriot (Apr 8, 2011)

I do equine facilitated mental health. Think of it as Mr Ed is a shrink. The program is called something to the effect of equine facilitated growth and learning. It gives me the chance to have control over the issues that are bothering me. In traditional pyschotherapy I was NOT given that chance. It was taken away from me. In the horse sessions, I love the sense of empowerment I have never really gotten a chance to experience here.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

msamericanpatriot said:


> With my autism and developmental disabilities as well as TWENTY FIVE years of pyschotherapy, I do NOT trust pyscharists anymore. They have done a LOT of emotional damage to me. The last one I went to at age 38 told me point blank to my face I was incapable of love. He made me feel like the Beast from Beauty and the Beast.Pyscharists LOVE to dictate to the intellectually challenged how they should live their lives. I have a heart and it feels. I would LOVE to know what it is like to have a boyfriend. You see society doesn't think of us wanting or should have those things. They want us out of sight and out of mind. There are few individuals that are of the non disabled slant that are tirelessly working on inclusion for us. I will NOT go to another shrink unless I know that shrink is autistic themselves. That is how badly I have been burned by these individuals.


Sadly, just because someone has a degree in psychiatry does not mean that person is mentally well themselves. Additionally, many who do have emotional issues are very drawn to psychology and psychiatry. You know; I have seen and personally experienced counseling where this was a good thing. The therapist having been quite empathetic and able to identify. In some cases, this does go a long way to validating the client and helping them on the pathway to wellness.

However, sad to say..................this is not always the case.

I am glad you are here with us and I am double glad for your chiropractor. Looking forward to learning more as you go along. And at the very least, we can offer moral support.


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