# Low T4 normal on NDT/Armour? Urgent help needed.



## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

I take compunded (powder capsule ndt)

At 180mg (3 grains equal)

I was

TSH 0.1

FT4 12 (10-20)

FT3 6,1 (3-6.3)

Its like NDT does the opposite to synthetic t4, it raises my t3 but lowers my T4.

So ive tried adding synthetic t4, all the way up to 100mcg on top of my NDT, guess what, my FT4 has remained at 12 the whole time.

People say you should aim for 50% ft4 range but my body wont increase it on armour. When I was on synthetics it was 18, but my ft3 was 3.1.

The increase in synthetic t4 hasnt change my FT3 which is telling me I convert synthetics poorly.

Very confused what to do next. Drop the synthetic t4 if its not changing anything. But what about the 50% ideal Ft4 range?

I am running out of meds so need some urnet advice.


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## webster2 (May 19, 2011)

How do you feel?


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

You TSH and free t4 will be low on desiccated meds. That's normal. You should focus on your free t3, which is flirting with being out of range.

As for what to do next, I agree with webster. It would be helpful to know how you feel with those labs. I'd also advise thinking strongly about dropping the t4 and attempting to optmize free t3 on desiccated meds only.


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

But so many people say you should ideally have a 50% range FT4, thats what I was trying to acheive?

I feel like crap, like I have on every combination of meds over the last 10 years, one day hypo, next day hyper, or weekly etc. Im unable to work and havnt for 6 years.

When I was on 180MG dessicated thyroid, I was about the same I am now on 100mcg synth t4 and 120MG dessicated. It makes no sense the synth doing nothing.


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

Have you ever tried Synthroid + Cytomel?


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

That 50% of free t4 guideline is for people on T4 meds. The assumption being that those people convert properly so you want enough t4 floating around to convert. If you introduce t3 into your system, there's not need to have t4 available (mostly) because the conversion process is "skipped over."

I would bet your symptoms are in part due to borderline over medication and partly due to antibodies.

Is you doctor approving all these medication combos? That high of an amount of t3 and t4 can be dangerous.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Is that a typo? 120 MG?? Should it not be 120 mcg.??

And you and the doctor are not supposed to mix Synthroid and Dessicated. Dessicated is the perfect 4 to 1 ratio. THAT is probably why you feel so bad. Voice of experience here!


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

aggggh i thought the 50% range was for all med types.

many people supplement NDT with synthroid, as do many leading holistic endos.

i thought the 50% was because the brain needed some unconverted t4 for cognition.

wow if i was at 50% range on synthetics my TSH would have been about 7 haha. i dont convert t4 well at all.

re dessicated thyroid and ratios, i disagree, its pigs thyroid, not human thyroid, its well documented that its not the same as the human ratio which is not necessarily 4:1 hence why some add some synth t4,

At the end of the day, if my ft4 is 12 on a range of 10-20 and my ft3 is about 6 on a range of 3.5-6.3, its the t3 thats important?

Usually results in a surpressed TSH below 0.1, but thats a known occurence.

and yes antibodies and what i think started as leaky gut is now leaky brain barrier, brain fog, neurotransmitter issues. but i have dropped my anti bodies fron over 1000 to 200 with range being <60. and that wasnt trying hard, im about to commit to it much more stricter. but ive cut gluten and most sugar aside from fruit.

The impact of hashis on the brain is astounding.

Also to keep in mind how much t3 goes to the gut and how much is converted in the liver. if any of these arent functioning well, thats another target,.

10 years of this, 6 off work and finally starting to get to the science side of it all not the Dr "Oh Mr your TSH is 3.5 and your ft4 is 18 and your ft3 is 4, you are perfectly fine. bye bye.

If I could put those people in my body for 1 hour, im sure they would open their mind a little.

120MG NDT not synthroid, that would be deadly.120MG NDT 75Mcg synth t4, was going to bump up to 100Mcg, but I think Im going to go back to just the 180MG NDT.

I feel weird eating animal hormones, does anyone else get this,


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

Im not so sure, I read regardless of what med you are on your goal is 50% because certain parts of the body actually do utilise t4, ie the brain.

the extra thyroxine t4 though is hardly putting a dent in increasing my FT4.


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

You could probably OD on T4 and it won't budge if you are on T3. I ask because I'm genuinely curious: where are you reading this? I'd love links/citations.


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

where did you read THAT?

the loop is to tsh not to T4.


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

That was intended to be hyperbole


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

Lots of people supplement T4 with T3 or the other way around to try and get a ratio. I dont see what difference it makes if using NDT or t3/cytomel as the supplement?


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

BatMan said:


> I feel like crap, like I have on every combination of meds over the last 10 years, one day hypo, next day hyper, or weekly etc. Im unable to work and havnt for 6 years.


If you want to continue to fiddle with the NDT/synthroid combo, by all means, do! I was only responding to this - that your quality of life is suffering and that you are running out of options...but as I understand it, you haven't tried NDT by itself and long enough to optimize your free t3. That seems to me like a logical and reasonable next step.


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

Yes I have, I was on 180MG for 8 Months. 20% FT4 range 85% FT3 range.

What Im wondering is if 20% FT4 is too low for some brain functions etc that require there own conversion, ie not being fed straight up FT3


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

What would optimal Ft3 be, its so hard. They say top third, but does that mean 69% or 99%.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

BatMan said:


> Yes I have, I was on 180MG for 8 Months. 20% FT4 range 85% FT3 range.
> 
> What Im wondering is if 20% FT4 is too low for some brain functions etc that require there own conversion, ie not being fed straight up FT3


I think alot of it comes down to how you feel. How did you feel at those levels and how long did you give it to settle in?

My experience has been slow and steady - not making quick changes in adjusting my replacement medications. It did make me suffer sometimes but I figured eventually I would find my set dose and I did. As far as Levothyroxine with Armour - thats your call - if it makes you feel better do it - if it does not trust those on this board that take Armour only and the manufacturer for their formulation.



> I feel weird eating animal hormones, does anyone else get this,


I totally get this and this is the reason I am on Unithroid and Cytomel. It took me several years post TT to dial in my dose but I am happy to say 5+ years later I have been stable. Thyroid issues are such a small part of my day - my main issue is every now and then I go a tad hyper - hubby is quick to point out and I back down on my Cytomel a 1/4 pill or so a week. That's all it takes.

Good luck to you!


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

i been reading a lot about t3 conversion problems and why we can still feel bad even on the right dose.

i wish i could get cytomel in this country, i could in australia. i really dont like taking piggy pills.


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