# What could be causing this???



## Cactusjack0747 (Jul 7, 2015)

Can somone please look at my Labs below and tell me what i should I do next. I had a Thyroidectomy so take that in to consideration. Im asking because I'm having the following symptoms: Anxiety, Waking up in the middle of the night, digestin issues, bloating from very little carbs. Thanks in advance for your time! I am on 4 grains Armour and was fine a year ago without symptoms. I have gained about 6-7 Lbs since then. Jack-

TSH 0.012 (0.4-4)
Total T4 8.41 (4.5-12.5)
Thyroid Uptake 30.70 (21-38)
Free T3 6.21 (2.77-5.27)
Free T4 1.35 (0.78-2.19)
RT3 20.9 (9.2-24.1)
PTH Intact 28 (15-65)

Glucose 88 (75-110)
Bun 21 (9-20) High!
Creatine 1.01 (.7-1.3)
Sodium 141.0 (137-145)
Potassium 4.6 (3.5-5.1)
Chloride 102.00 (98-108)
CO2 26.0 (22-30)
Calcium 9.80 (8.4-10.2)
Albumin 4.60 (3.5-5.0)
ALK Phosphatase 89.0 (38-126)
ALT[SPGT] 42.0 (21-72)
ALT[SGOT] 31 (17-59)
Total Bilirubin .90 (0.2-1.3)
Total Protein 7.40 (6.3-8.2)
BUN Crea Ratio 20.8 (7-25)
Globulin 2.80 (2.4-3.5)
A/G Ratio 1.6 (1.1-2.2)
Osmolity 276 (261-280)

Cholesterol 186.0 (100-200)
Triglycerides 97.0 (35-160)
Direct HDL Chol 45.0 (30-80)
LDL [Calc] 122 (60-130)
Cholesterol/HDL 4.13 (<5.60)
VLDL [Calc] 19 (0-40)
CRP Level 1.3 (0-3)

Testosterone 654.00 (131.51-813.28)


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

Free T3 6.21 (2.77-5.27)

I will defer to the Armour experts here, but the result I copied and pasted above tells me your Armour dose is too high.


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## fttfbass (Jan 8, 2014)

Did you take any armour before your blood draw? If not, you look overmedicated.


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

Yup, could be overmedication. Why did you have the TT?


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## Cactusjack0747 (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks everyone for the reply. I did not take any Meds the day of the test. I've been on 4 grains of Armour for over a year feeling great but the past three months I've had the symptoms I mentioned above. The only thing new is I went from drinking only on Saturday to now 4-5 days a week. I had TT because I had a goiter and my doctor said it was best to remove. I wish I would have went done something different!


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## fttfbass (Jan 8, 2014)

People tend to need less armour during the warmer months of the year, but you said you've been on this dose for over a year. Stress from arguing and drinking more often could possibly contribute a bit. Have you become less active? If so, you wouldn't be using up as much of the thyroid hormones.

Did your doctor comment on your labs with the symptoms that you currently have? Your doctor should decrease your armour a little and see if that helps, which it should. Then recheck labs in 6-8 weeks to see where you stand.


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## Cactusjack0747 (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks fttfbass! I forgot to mention I was working out 5 days a week before meeting this new girlfriend so yeah my exercise level went from high to very little if not none. As most new relationship we've been eating and drinking like crazy! The truth is I have been self medicating/dosing since beginning with Armour over a year now. Dosing based on how I felt but I stopped and held at 4 grains for some time without symptoms. I'm going to take a adrenal saliva test before I lower my Meds.


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

If your activity dropped off, then you'd need less Armour. So, yup, you are over medicated.


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## Cactusjack0747 (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks Super Gold Veteran. I'm curious though. Can you say that I'm over medicated for sure without seeing my results from my adrenal saliva test? I read a lot about the effects adrenals can have on FT3. I have a test ordered and I am curious to find out the results. Whats your thoughts on the Adrenals? Thanks for your time! Jack-


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

I know zippo about adrenals. Sorry. Just commenting on your thyroid labs which do show overmediaction.

Side note...I really think medication adjustments need to be based upon labs and symptoms.


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

Your Reverse T3 is a little on the high side, too, so I'll be interested in seeing your adrenal results (adrenal problems can cause T3 issues). Are you doing the saliva cortisol test for adrenals?


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## Cactusjack0747 (Jul 7, 2015)

Hey Jenny V. Yes I ordered the saliva test should have by next week. Is high Reverse T3 a typical sign of adrenal issues? I just find it hard to believe that I am over medicated with only 4 grains of Armour being that I don't have a Thyroid and going a year feeling fine with no symptoms. I've heard of other people without a thyroid being on 5-6 grains. Thanks Jack-


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## fttfbass (Jan 8, 2014)

Regardless of what your adrenal tests show, your thyroid labs are cleary showing that you're overmedicated. You want to get your Free T3 back into the upper 1/4 of the range, right now you've got that way out of range.

If I was in your shoes, I wouldn't wait for the adrenal test to lower my armour a bit. You said you went from working out a lot to basically not at all, so that definitely explains why you would need less thyroid hormones now. Overmedication could be contributing to an adrenal problem if one is starting to develop and it isn't a road you want to go down if you can avoid it.

A high Reverse T3 to Free T3 ratio is a typical sign of adrenal issues. I'm not sure what units they used to measure those on your labs to figure that out for you. It's true that your Reverse T3 is on the high side, but your Free T3 is high out of the range so your ratio may be fine.

The symptoms that you're experiencing could be due to either overmedication or adrenal issues, since a lot of symptoms cross over between the two. But, you're clearly overmedicated, so that's where I would start while waiting to get the results of the cortisol test back.


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## Cactusjack0747 (Jul 7, 2015)

Thanks fttfbass!! I will drop down a half a grain and see what happens. Jack-


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## fttfbass (Jan 8, 2014)

That's what I would personally do. Others may recommend a decrease in 1/4 grain. You should get some symptom relief within a day or two, since the half-life of the T3 in the armour is pretty short and you'd be dropping 4.5mcg of that right off the bat. The 19mcg of T4 in 1/2 grain will take longer to leave your system, since the half-life is much longer.


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## Cactusjack0747 (Jul 7, 2015)

Hmm. That's Interesting. How would I feel if I go 1/4 grain versus 1/2 grain reduction?

I see that you showed me the number which I don't quite understand but I will look it up. I'm just curious if there will be any different feeling/symptom based on how low I go?


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## fttfbass (Jan 8, 2014)

It's hard to say how you'll feel between dropping 1/4 grain or 1/2 grain. If you decrease too much, you'll start feeling hypothyroid symptoms. If you don't decrease enough, you'll continue to feel hyperthyroid symptoms. It's a matter of finding that sweet spot again. It was 4 grains when you were more active.

Armour contains 38mcg of T4 and 9mcg of T3 in each grain. T4 is the inactive hormone, which your body converts into T3 the active hormone. It takes weeks for the T4 to convert into T3. You start feeling the effects of the T3 in armour as soon as it's absorbed, which is why you want to multidose armour twice a day. There are also other thyroid hormones in Armour, but little is known about them.

Labs are important to get a baseline, but it really does come down to how you're feeling.

You could drop 1/4 grain and see if you get any improvement in symptoms. If you're not seeing much improvement within a few weeks, you could drop another 1/4 grain. Most people would rather go a little hypothyroid than remain hyperthyroid, which is why I initially said I'd personally drop 1/2 grain.


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

4 grains of Armour is actually a pretty hefty dose. I also have no thyroid and I'm only on 2.5 grains and I exercise 6 days a week. But, I have adrenal issues I'm addressing so if I go any higher than 2.5 grains, my reverse T3 shoots up and I feel horrible.


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## Cactusjack0747 (Jul 7, 2015)

Jenny V. Thanks for that info. I thought with the TT I would be around 4 grains or higher. How are you addressing your adrenals?


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

I did the 4 point saliva cortisol test and I'm low, normal, high, high. I'm trying Seriphos before each of my highs to see if it lowers them and naturally raises my morning high. My doc wants me to try something called Adrenastim in the morning to help my energy levels.

It's great to do the saliva test because high and low cortisol symptoms can mimic each other.


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