# No thyroid



## oceanmist (Apr 30, 2007)

Hi, Here for hubby again.....

It was a year in November that he had it removed. As you all remember the ups and downs of the meds. Well his doctor is so happy with his levels!!!!!! I on the other hand have different feelings. I'm worried. He sleeps alot and I mean a lot...dont' get me wrong he works very hard...but thats all he does is work and sleep. 
I don't know I just walked over to the couch and looked at him. He's not the same man I knew. He has no interest in doing anything...he's always to tired....and yes even doing that! I just don't know what to do anymore. He looks thin again...scares me. He looks like he aged, I feel like my life is slipping through my fingers, and as hard as I try to change things, and hold on to what we had... nothing is helping.

Ok, so he's tired, no sex drive hugs2(THIS IS NOT MY HUSBAND) no interest in doing or going anywhere...WE HAVE NO LIFE:sad0049:

Any ideas?
Oceanmist


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

Get copies of his labs and post the results. Sounds like he's hypo. I could not under any circumstances even think about sex. And I was tired even when I was laying on the couch.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

I agree with the lab request, post them along with ranges.

If the doctor is not running his FT-4 and FT-3 he will never be properly medicated on replacement meds.

If the doctor will not run those labs have them run independently and post the results with ranges.

From symptoms alone I would bet he is under medicated or not converting properly. He is probably "in range" and his doctor does not listen to symptoms when dosing. In Range can also mean not properly medicated, especially if your husband is in low range.

It will get better once his medications are right - I struggled with fatigue for quite awhile and did not shake it until my labs got into better range for "me"


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

oceanmist said:


> Hi, Here for hubby again.....
> 
> It was a year in November that he had it removed. As you all remember the ups and downs of the meds. Well his doctor is so happy with his levels!!!!!! I on the other hand have different feelings. I'm worried. He sleeps alot and I mean a lot...dont' get me wrong he works very hard...but thats all he does is work and sleep.
> I don't know I just walked over to the couch and looked at him. He's not the same man I knew. He has no interest in doing anything...he's always to tired....and yes even doing that! I just don't know what to do anymore. He looks thin again...scares me. He looks like he aged, I feel like my life is slipping through my fingers, and as hard as I try to change things, and hold on to what we had... nothing is helping.
> ...


We need numbers. Hopefully for TSH, FREE T3 and FREE T4. Include the ranges also, please.

Also, testosterone and ferritin labs would be a good thing.

Dr. Mercola (FREES)
http://www.mercola.com/article/hypothyroid/diagnosis_comp.htm

Free T3 and Free T4 are the only accurate measurement of the actual active thyroid hormone levels in the body. This is the hormone that is actually free and exerting effect on the cells. These are the thyroid hormones that count.


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

ocean, trust your gut. It's telling you things aren't right, and they aren't. If your husband were being properly medicated, he would be almost back to his old self by now.

Ditto what the others have said about labs.


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

I'll agree with everything everyone said. When I'm hypo, I sound exactly like your husband--I've got absolutely no energy to do anything that isn't absolutely necessary. I can't even describe the exhaustion, it's like it goes down to your bones and even the thought of doing things wears you out. It's not a fun place to be.


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## JPGreco (Mar 2, 2012)

Honestly, that's my biggest worry if I end up going surgery. I know in my gut, that my entire life I've been toward the hyper range of things (always been skinny, struggled to put on weight, etc). I've been hyper for so long now that its almost normal to me and I want to be either at the very top of the range or even just outside of it as long as I'm not symptomatic, I don't see it being a problem. If my heart rate goes back to where it belongs and I'm still technically hyper, that's where I want to stay.

Good luck and definitely post the labs. Also have a testosterone test done. Low T levels can cause a lot of problems too.


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## oceanmist (Apr 30, 2007)

Lovlkn said:


> I agree with the lab request, post them along with ranges.
> 
> If the doctor is not running his FT-4 and FT-3 he will never be properly medicated on replacement meds.
> 
> ...


Did you mean over medicated? The more meds he takes the more hypo he gets....right?


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

oceanmist said:


> Did you mean over medicated? The more meds he takes the more hypo he gets....right?


Actually, no. Too much Synthroid leads to hypERthyroid; too little Synthroid leads to hypOthyroid.

It's kind of confusing... put simply, TSH moves in the OPPOSITE direction of the amount of medicine.


More Synthroid leads to higher T4, higher T3, and lower TSH.
Less Synthroid leads to lower T4, lower T3, and higher TSH.
(If the patient is converting properly.)

TSH stands for Thyroid Stimulating Hormone...so if you think about it...if you are hypothyroid, that means there's not enough thyroid hormone, which will lead to MORE TSH because the TSH is trying to tell the thyroid to make more hormone.

Let that marinate for a few minutes, and it might actually make sense.


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## webster2 (May 19, 2011)

I agree, trust your gut. Get his labs. He sure sounds hypo, that's what my life is when I am hypo..work & the couch.


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## oceanmist (Apr 30, 2007)

Octavia said:


> Actually, no. Too much Synthroid leads to hypERthyroid; too little Synthroid leads to hypOthyroid.
> 
> It's kind of confusing... put simply, TSH moves in the OPPOSITE direction of the amount of medicine.
> 
> ...


OH GOOD GOD I'VE BEEN TELLING HIM TO DECREASE WHEN HE SHOULD HAVE INCREASED!!! Wait he has no thyroid to product thyroid hormone.......Shoot I'm so confused. arty0009:


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Did he listen to you and reduce?

Glad we could be of help.


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## oceanmist (Apr 30, 2007)

OK, I need to get this right.....

He had to much synthroid which made him hyper when diagnosed with Graves. So they removed his gland making him hypo....so synthroid is making him hyper and because he doesn't have a thyroid he need synthroid to make him hyper and stable. At this moment he is hypo because his dose is not high enough!!!!! Oh crap.....

Sorry I'm spelling this out for my husband because the doctor when we asked would not answer this question so we understood. We are still confused if he still had Graves without a thyroid.

Is this correct!


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## oceanmist (Apr 30, 2007)

Yes he did, the first time...doctor freaked out and put him up again, it was only a quarter of a pill to see if it would help...We had no support and thought the same way......I HAD IT ALL A$$ BACKWARDS...What the hell was I thinking....if he doesn't have a thyroid to make hormones...then of course the pill is to get his hormones up.

He is taking 0.2mg once a day


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

oceanmist said:


> OK, I need to get this right.....
> 
> He had to much synthroid which made him hyper when diagnosed with Graves. So they removed his gland making him hypo....so synthroid is making him hyper and because he doesn't have a thyroid he need synthroid to make him hyper and stable. At this moment he is hypo because his dose is not high enough!!!!! Oh crap.....
> 
> ...


What was his initial diagnosis?

What was the initial medication he was put on?

Post thyroid removal a patient takes Synthroid or other "replacement" medication to bring Free T-4 and Free T-3 into mid to 3/4 range.

Once the thyroid is removed the Graves symptoms are gone because it was the destruction of the thyroid gland that was causing the Graves symptoms- If post TT, over medication can cause hyper symptoms which can also overlap with hypo symptoms.


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## oceanmist (Apr 30, 2007)

Lovlkn said:


> Did he listen to you and reduce?
> 
> Glad we could be of help.


Help? You just gave my husband his life back, and now maybe he can live a normal life again. Not to mention our marriage! Thank you so much...The doctor did not explain it this way to us. Now I know why we have been fighting an upward battle.....lol

At least now we understand and we can aim to balance his hormones with doctors help of course....

:hugs: Thank you so much....and I though you made a mistake....lol


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## oceanmist (Apr 30, 2007)

He was diagnosed with Graves...the doctor told us he will always have Graves even after the removal......

For a year before surgery he was on meds to calm him down...he was all over the place...taked fast..hyper...temper. I don't remember the name of the pills but after his surgery he was put on synthyroid....then that was a little bumpy and still is...and no wonder...

I can't believe the doctors have been so unhelpful. As well to get lab results in Canada is like slapping your doctor in the face. I mean we do get free medical, so its insulting to question them! Well we'll see about that........

Oceanmist


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## Sandbar (Nov 6, 2012)

Hi Oceanmist, I'm so glad you got the right info and I hope your husband feels better soon! A few things you might be interested in....I've read it is best to adjust synthroid doses by only 12.5mcg (microgram...not milligram) at a time, very small increments. Some get symptoms while their body adjusts to the change even if it is the right change. The other is that yes Graves is for life. Most lucky people after treatment don't have any other issue than getting their synthroid dose right but there are some who years later on go on to have some eye or skin issues. I think they are very rare though.


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

Ocean...in an ideal world, your husband's labwork will include:
- Free T4 (ideally, this will be in the upper half, or upper 3/4 of the range)
- Free T3 (same with this one)
- TSH (ideally, this will be around 1.0, but some patients do better a bit higher or lower)

- If his Free T4 or Free T3 is low (lower half of the range, or below range), then he needs an increase in Synthroid.
- If his Free T4 or Free T3 is high (above range), then he needs a decrease in meds, as he is hyperthyroid.
- If his TSH is higher than it should be, he will likely need an increase in dosage.
- If his TSH is lower than it should be, he will likely need a decrease in dosage.
- But the way he feels should also be considered, as it is just as important as what his labwork says.

And like Sandbar mentioned above, changes to your husband's dose should be in pretty small increments, such as 12.5 micrograms. Since your husband is currently on 200 micrograms, a decrease or increase of a quarter of a pill is a huge jump up or down, and he will definitely feel it (and not in a good way). Most of us, when we have a dosage change, experience some "bad" with it before we feel better as a result of the dosage change. We just have to ride it out for a few weeks, then level off.

It is very unfortunate that your husband's doctor will not explain things to you in a way you can understand.

How long has he CONSISTENTLY been taking the 200 microgram dose this time around?


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

oceanmist said:


> OH GOOD GOD I'VE BEEN TELLING HIM TO DECREASE WHEN HE SHOULD HAVE INCREASED!!! Wait he has no thyroid to product thyroid hormone.......Shoot I'm so confused. arty0009:


LHM! Honey bunny!!! How much thyroxine is hubby supposed to be taking right now? Get him back on the Rx quickly.

Especially since he has no thyroid. And please get him in for labs of TSH, FREE T4 and FREE T3.


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## oceanmist (Apr 30, 2007)

Octavia said:


> Ocean...in an ideal world, your husband's labwork will include:
> - Free T4 (ideally, this will be in the upper half, or upper 3/4 of the range)
> - Free T3 (same with this one)
> - TSH (ideally, this will be around 1.0, but some patients do better a bit higher or lower)
> ...


After last night on this form...I sat there thinking to myself as hubby was sleeping on the couch...how could have this happened? What did we not understand? Where did we fall of the ship? I think when we got diagnosed it was traumatic...but at that time I knew he was getting too much hormones and needed his thyroid out. I guess after the surgery we went through so much that the little light bulb upstairs was still thinking he had Graves and his hormones were high and he needed this pills to calm him down...we didn't move forward. We felt like we were juggling 10 balls at a time trying to stay on top of each crises when in fact to my embarrassment we dropped the ball. I posted on this form...about how terrible hubby was doing in the last year......

My concern is that I didn't turn off anyone from having a lifesaving surgery...I'm deeply sorry. This is just more proof of what patients go through without their doctor's full explanation of why we feel so bad and sick. Do they care? Well I'd sure hope so....but hubby has not been well because of lack of meds. I have sent him in so many times telling him to tell them what's going on....that it's hard on our marriage, his life...his health...and he comes home with nothing....makes me pause...............

Now regarding dose which is so important....confirming that 0.2 mg is 200 microgram, and is this a low dose or normal for someone without a thyroid?

Hubby doesn't go in for his levels for another 6 weeks...I will try to call the doctor's office for his last ones but will get my head chewed off. It's confidential...we don't do that...yadda yadda. It's also our god given right!

So if one wanted to increase its almost impossible to just take a tiny piece as each day it would be different...so he needs to go in and ask for an increase is the bottom line.

You all have been amazing, maybe soon we can look like >>>>hugs3

Lol Oceanmist


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

It happens...it does! At least you are well-informed now. 

200 micrograms is not low. It is on the higher side for most of us females (I don't have a thyroid, have a medium frame and am very active and I take 150mcgs), but men usually weigh more (starting point should be based on weight) so they need a larger dose. At this point, we all would really need to see those labs before anyone can really help. 

Hang in there! It will get better!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

oceanmist said:


> After last night on this form...I sat there thinking to myself as hubby was sleeping on the couch...how could have this happened? What did we not understand? Where did we fall of the ship? I think when we got diagnosed it was traumatic...but at that time I knew he was getting too much hormones and needed his thyroid out. I guess after the surgery we went through so much that the little light bulb upstairs was still thinking he had Graves and his hormones were high and he needed this pills to calm him down...we didn't move forward. We felt like we were juggling 10 balls at a time trying to stay on top of each crises when in fact to my embarrassment we dropped the ball. I posted on this form...about how terrible hubby was doing in the last year......
> 
> My concern is that I didn't turn off anyone from having a lifesaving surgery...I'm deeply sorry. This is just more proof of what patients go through without their doctor's full explanation of why we feel so bad and sick. Do they care? Well I'd sure hope so....but hubby has not been well because of lack of meds. I have sent him in so many times telling to tell them what's going on....that it's hard on our marriage, his life...his health...and he comes home with nothing....makes me pause...............
> 
> ...


Please don't beat yourself up! All of us have followed your traumatic story re the "both" of you for a long time.

The thing to concentrate on is getting it right in the "now" and forget the past.

We are here to help you, you and hubby are in my prayers and let us know what transpires.

We have to get hubby off that couch.

If your doctor chews your head off, I think you may benefit from finding a better doctor. All you need is a GP or NP who really cares and has some brain cells floating around.

Bless your heart!


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## oceanmist (Apr 30, 2007)

Ok.....became a dectective got TSH numbers from her....maybe I should change jobs.....

Anyways ladies....my husband has not gotten his free T4 or free T3 since August of 2012...His last TSH was on Novemeber 16, 2012....the numbers seem ok, I think...1.46. So now I'm still confused....He has seemed to become more hypo in the last couple of months. He mentioned to me that maybe he has mono....I said no your pills are off...


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

oceanmist said:


> Ok.....became a dectective got TSH numbers from her....maybe I should change jobs.....
> 
> Anyways ladies....my husband has not gotten his free T4 or free T3 since August of 2012...His last TSH was on Novemeber 16, 2012....the numbers seem ok, I think...1.46. So now I'm still confused....He has seemed to become more hypo in the last couple of months. He mentioned to me that maybe he has mono....I said no your pills are off...


Your hubby should be checked for EBV (mono); life is just full of surprises. And of course the doc needs to run the FREE T3 and FREE T4 as dosing by TSH does not work out well at all.


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## oceanmist (Apr 30, 2007)

Thank you ...just what I needed to hear...and explains so much. He will be sent off to the doctor as soon as I can get him off the couch!!! Lol

Thank you!


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## brookshire (Nov 28, 2012)

oceanmist said:


> I can't believe the doctors have been so unhelpful. As well to get lab results in Canada is like slapping your doctor in the face. I mean we do get free medical, so its insulting to question them! Well we'll see about that........
> 
> Oceanmist


To be fair to your docs, they are probably seriously overworked. However, your health care isn't free. You are paying plenty in taxes to keep it coming or someone is. That someone would want good care too. You may have to be a little more assertive with the doctors and it's good that you're using the Internet to get information.

There's a good book called, "The Thyroid Solution" and you may want to find it. I can't remember the author's name.


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## jenny v (May 6, 2012)

oceanmist, I don't know how receptive he might be to this, but it might be a good idea for you to go to a couple of his appointments with him. You've said he's gone in the past for help and nothing changed, now that you are armed with this info and can report the symptoms you've noticed, it might help. Thyroid problems can wear you out to the point of passiveness and can cause mental fog, too, so he might need your back up.


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## oceanmist (Apr 30, 2007)

brookshire said:


> To be fair to your docs, they are probably seriously overworked. However, your health care isn't free. You are paying plenty in taxes to keep it coming or someone is. That someone would want good care too. You may have to be a little more assertive with the doctors and it's good that you're using the Internet to get information.
> 
> There's a good book called, "The Thyroid Solution" and you may want to find it. I can't remember the author's name.


I have always been fair to the doctors...and our health system is going down. They are over worked. Then there are people that abuse the system also which doesn't help sick patients like my husband and others that require the time to get them stable and listen to their needs and concerns.

As far as free, I meant that in Canada we see the doctor and walk out. I don't have to give up our home to get health care...I went to the States ....love it there..spend all my holidays there..anyways needed three pills in hospital emerg. It cost me 1,000.00 was forced to pay up front first before leaving...took all our spending money.... then my insurance kicked in afterI got home. I don't know how anyone could manage.

But trust me on the fact as I just asked my family doctor's nurse for my labs....and she talked to the doctor who she said he said that this is not part of his practice to give out information!? I don't believe thats what The College of Phyicians and Surgeons would agree upon.

I don't trust everything I read on the internet, but I DO TRUST THESE WOMEN...

I will look out for the book... Thank you so much! :hugs:


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## oceanmist (Apr 30, 2007)

jenny v said:


> oceanmist, I don't know how receptive he might be to this, but it might be a good idea for you to go to a couple of his appointments with him. You've said he's gone in the past for help and nothing changed, now that you are armed with this info and can report the symptoms you've noticed, it might help. Thyroid problems can wear you out to the point of passiveness and can cause mental fog, too, so he might need your back up.


He is sensitive when it comes to this disease....he fights it...but I agree, I think I have to go in with him...


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## brookshire (Nov 28, 2012)

oceanmist said:


> I have always been fair to the doctors...


I didn't mean _you_ weren't being fair to the docs. I meant that _I_ wanted to be careful to be fair to your docs.


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