# Conversion needed: Im confused



## marshlakemom (Oct 25, 2010)

Can somebody please tell me how much Synthroid I'm taking.......I was on 137 mg and ended up feeling sick while travelling and had to go across border to get an increase in my synthroid as my blood work showed 7.74 tsh (normal 4-5) and I bought 150 mcg...........I'm feeling even worse and think I made a huge mistake because I just noticed what I bought was in milligrams and not micrograms and have been on it for a month.

So what it appears to me is that I've gone from 137 mg to .15 mg if I do the conversion right.

Do you agree.

If this is so, then I've put myself into an extreme hypo state, terrible brain fog, confusion, shakes, blurry vision, emotional, cannot sleep at all, etc. etc.

Please, can somebody help me here.

I don't see my doctor at home for another 3 months.


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

Unless I'm totally and completely confused, I think it's the other way around. One milligram is 1000x more than one microgram. See: http://www.convertunits.com/from/ug/to/mg

So if you were on 137 mcgs, then you went from .137mgs to 150mgs, which is a huge, huge increase.

I think you might have put yourself in an extreme HYPER state...please be very careful...that could be dangerous.


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## marshlakemom (Oct 25, 2010)

So I was on 0.137 mg of synthroid and upped to 150 mcg....does this mean that I'm now taking 0.15 mg .....and therefore went from my hypo state to hyper....sorry I'm just so confused, can hardly think.

Thanks


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

You went from .137 mg to .150 mg...which is the same as 137 mcg to 150 mcg. It's a small increase - the smallest increase that can be made. I recently went down...from 150 mcg to 137 mcg...a small decrease.

If you were hypo on the 137, but now you're hyper on 150, you may need to do alternating days of each one, since there's no in-between option. Can you call your doctor's office for advice on this?


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

Octavia said:


> You went from .137 mg to .150 mg...which is the same as 137 mcg to 150 mcg. It's a small increase - the smallest increase that can be made. I recently went down...from 150 mcg to 137 mcg...a small decrease.
> 
> If you were hypo on the 137, but now you're hyper on 150, you may need to do alternating days of each one, since there's no in-between option. Can you call your doctor's office for advice on this?


Wait, but did she? If she bought .150mg that would make sense, but she was saying she bought 150mg (hence my confusion)? I didn't think they would make that dose....


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## marshlakemom (Oct 25, 2010)

No I went from 0.137 mg to 150 mcg

I just got my blood results as we speak emailed to me...this is what I've been told:

I have gone from the following readings in January to :

TSH 7.74 to 12.55 (norm 0.450-4.5)
T4 10.0 to 7.3 (norms 4.5-12.0)
T3 Uptake 30 to 36 (norm 24.39)
Free Thyroid index 3.0 to 2.6 Norm 1.2-4.9

To me this indicates Hypo, but I feel so Hyper

I'm so upset and confused:

Help


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

marshlakemom said:


> No I went from 0.137 mg to 150 mcg


Ok, just so we're on the same page, mg = milligram and mcg - microgram.

So, according to you, you went from 137mcg to 150mg.


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## marshlakemom (Oct 25, 2010)

No:

0.137 mg (milligrams) to 150 mcg (micrograms)

My tsh reading has gone off the charts in one month:

from 7.75 to 12.55


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

Ok, then Octavia is right...you did make a very small increase. Nothing earth shattering.

I'm not good with bloodwork, but yeah, your TSH is way too high. I would wonder about the quality of meds you received...or, something else is going on...


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## marshlakemom (Oct 25, 2010)

I'll try this again...LOL

Ok, if I do the conversion from 0.137 mg to 150 mcg, then it is a small increase.

I'm beginning to think that the over the border medication (mexico) is not the same as what I was taking from Canada, strength wise

Sintrocid is what I'm taking now (Mexican meds), and my Cdn med was called Synthyroid.

So I guess it would appear that when I raised my dose using Sintrocid, I was in fact going down as far as the quality of the strength of the meds....thus why it put me into a worsened hypo reading. But i still don't understand why I'm feeling so hyper....I had full blown Graves at the start of my battle and had my thyroid radiated...I know what it is to feel the effects of Graves.

Can anybody explain why I feel so bad with the readings I showed a few posts above

Deb


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## sonnyjane (Oct 6, 2011)

marshlakemom said:


> I can't seem to get this through:
> 
> I was taking 0.137 mg and went to 150 mcg
> 
> ...


0.137 is LESS THAN 0.15. You have INCREASED your dosage. Think of it in this way - I'll add an extra zero to make it easier to understand: *0.137 < 0.150*.


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

You've still increased your dose.

Think of is as: .137mg to .150mg.

Or, rather, look as this list:
.100mg 
.112mg 
.125mg 
.137mg 
.150mg

The amount of synthroid increases as you go down the list.

But your TSH has gone up and your T4 has dropped. My first thought is you got some bogus medication (very common in Mexico, hence my previous advice to avoid it if possible). Clearly, something else could very well be going on, too, but I'd be racking my brain to figure out if there's another way to get yoru Synthroid from a more regulated pharmacy.


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

137 micrograms is exactly the same as .137 milligrams. This is what you were taking before.

150 micrograms is exactly the same as .150 milligrams. This is what you are taking now.

So you are taking SLIGHTLY more hormone...but your TSH is still going up. It should be going down. As joplin mentioned, I would question the quality of the pills you got, or it could be that you got a different brand with different fillers, and you are not absorbing them as efficiently.


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## miguel (Jul 18, 2011)

In Mexico you can find 3 brands of levothyroxine (eutirox, karet and cynocuatro) eutirox is available in 25, 50, 75, 88, 100, 112, 125, 137, 150 and 200 mcg, karet is available in 50, 100 and 150 mcg and cynocuatro is only available in 100 mcg. The Mexican levothyroxine is just like than synthroid, the Inactive ingredients of eutirox are lactose monohydrate, corn starch, gelatin, croscarmellose sodium and magnesium stearate, this drug is produced by merck


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Octavia said:


> 137 micrograms is exactly the same as .137 milligrams. This is what you are taking before.
> 
> 150 micrograms is exactly the same as .150 milligrams. This is what you are taking now.
> 
> So you are taking SLIGHTLY more hormone...but your TSH is still going up. It should be going down. As joplin mentioned, I would question the quality of the pills you got, or it could be that you got a different brand with different fillers, and you are not absorbing them as efficiently.


Correct! I concur with that assessment. Your conversion is right on as well. I feel our friend got some "bogus" stuff down there across the border.


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## daisydaisy (May 12, 2010)

You are currently hypo then. I too feel hyper when I am hypo. I think it's like when someone is overtired and then you get that jittery feeling or unnerved feeling from exhaustion. your body is in stress mode. I know it's an aweful feeling. I too in one month went from a tsh of 2.27 to 7.34 and now just stabilized again at 1.67 . same meds in Canada. They suspect hashimoto hit. When your tsh is off it causes your antibodies to get stirred and you feel the symptoms, jittery feeling. You need to suppress your tsh so that your antibodies go quiet again, my endo said tsh no more than 2.50would be ideal. Yes I know you feel like you will go zooming hyper but you won't. YOU WILL BE OK.


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## marshlakemom (Oct 25, 2010)

Ok guys, thanks so much for each of your inputs. I was just so whacked out this morning, and couldn't get that conversion right--complete mental block...feel rather stupid now.

I did go to a medical clinic today and saw a medical doctor and showed him my blood results. First of all he gave me ^*&*( for self-medicating myself with Mexican meds, and going for blood work on my own. I felt like a little kid, and I'm 61......oh well, we all need to be straightened out once in awhile ...LOL

Anyway, to make a long story short, he said I was definately (as we know) in the hypo state and gave me a one month prescription for 175 mg of Synthroid, and wants me back in two 1/2 weeks for another blood work.

He as well was curious as to what would have sent me into a hypo state in the first place, and all I could suggest was stress, sleep deprivation, etc. He just said "possibly".

So there we are, I'm hypo and on a proper medication dose ..."hopefully" and will feel better in a bit....

Thanks again for your support, I'll keep you up to date.

Deb


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## miguel (Jul 18, 2011)

marshlakemom said:


> I'll try this again...LOL
> 
> Ok, if I do the conversion from 0.137 mg to 150 mcg, then it is a small increase.
> 
> ...


I've never seen a syntrocid in a realiable mexican pharmacy. I think this medicine is false and you should not take this drug because does not appear in the dictionary of pharmaceutical specialties of Mexico. Where did you get this medicine?

http://www.facmed.unam.mx/bmnd/dirijo.php?bib_vv=6


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## marshlakemom (Oct 25, 2010)

Los Algodones, Mexico------ and I feel like a complete idiot.


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## miguel (Jul 18, 2011)

It is difficult to find a reliable pharmacy in a small town, I feel your pain and do not blame you. Just be careful with buying drugs in Mexico, always make sure you buy in a pharmacy as benavides, walmart, soriana or any department store. I hope you can feel good, but it is dangerous to self-medicate. I understand your decision, is desperate to feel sick:hugs:


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## nikkij0814 (Jul 13, 2011)

Hi there - I just read through your posts - I had a similar experience with my TSH raising despite my increase in thyroid medication. I asked my endocrinologist about this, and he said that if your body isn't getting enough meds, the TSH can continue rising as if to "alert" your body that more thyroid hormone is needed. I went from 125 to 137, TSH was higher on 137, I then went to 150 and my TSH started to get lower as I got to a theraputic dose for me. Hope that helps! It just might not be enough of an increase for you ... but beware of going hyper, that is also horrific. My endo made me wait 8 weeks in between med changes for more accurate bloodwork so that the dosage changes didn't go too far. Good luck! It will get worked out!


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## marshlakemom (Oct 25, 2010)

I guess what I don't understand is why did I go hypo, why did my tsh rise so fast. My tsh was 1.47 in April of 2011 and bang in mid-December I started to get very sick...... Can our emotional state do this to us I wonder. I was terribly homesick and struggling very much with being away from home at Christmas .... my emotions were turning into anger. I think it was my emotions, or was it me going hypo.....Gawd this is just confusing. Just seems unbelievable I could go from tsh of 1.47 to 12.55 in 8 months. Anyway, just a bit of personal stuff coming out there.

Another thing I wonder is this: Because I was taking 7.5 mg. zopiclone for over a year (as I have chronic insomnia) and then ran out down here, and again went to Mexico to buy more, and probably again got yet another bogus . The "so-called" zopiclone I bought in Mexico wasn't working that well, and I wonder now if I didn't go into a w/drawal as it is a benzo and I wasn't getting the dosage my body was used to. And consequently, the w/drawal put my body into shock and caused my TSH level to rise so much.

Just questions here....

The biggest thing I've learned about all this is to never buy medications across the border as I believe now they are all bogus.

My extremities are feeling very numb tonight, so think I will sign off till tomorrow. Thanks for all your input, it is appreciated.

I've had so many health issues including Celiac Disease, Diabetes, Thyroid disfunction, and chronic insomnia. Been a rough go.

Deb


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## miguel (Jul 18, 2011)

marshlakemom said:


> I guess what I don't understand is why did I go hypo, why did my tsh rise so fast. My tsh was 1.47 in April of 2011 and bang in mid-December I started to get very sick...... Can our emotional state do this to us I wonder. I was terribly homesick and struggling very much with being away from home at Christmas .... my emotions were turning into anger. I think it was my emotions, or was it me going hypo.....Gawd this is just confusing. Just seems unbelievable I could go from tsh of 1.47 to 12.55 in 8 months. Anyway, just a bit of personal stuff coming out there.
> 
> Another thing I wonder is this: Because I was taking 7.5 mg. zopiclone for over a year (as I have chronic insomnia) and then ran out down here, and again went to Mexico to buy more, and probably again got yet another bogus . The "so-called" zopiclone I bought in Mexico wasn't working that well, and I wonder now if I didn't go into a w/drawal as it is a benzo and I wasn't getting the dosage my body was used to. And consequently, the w/drawal put my body into shock and caused my TSH level to rise so much.
> 
> ...


Mexican drugs are not false, If this were true I would be dead


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

miguel said:


> Mexican drugs are not false, If this were true I would be dead


Truer words were never spoken. I am sure all legitimate pharmaceuticals are of the highest quality.

Thanks Miguel!


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

Deb, if it took 8 months to go from a TSH of 1.47 to 12.55, I might be more inclined to think that it was changes in your body that created the rise, rather than blaming it entirely on "bad medicine" so to speak. I suspect that if your drugs were bad, your TSH would have risen quite a bit faster and quite a bit higher (assuming you were taking the new drugs for those 8 months). What exactly is your diagnosis that prompted you to need thyroid hormone? (That might shed some light on the situation.) When I stopped taking Levothyroxine prior to my RAI treatment, my TSH shot up to 105 in 3 weeks.

Who knows, at this point, really? At any rate, it looks like you're on the right track now, so hopefully you'll see positive results quickly. Best wishes!


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## joplin1975 (Jul 21, 2011)

Mexican drugs are certainly not bogus. However, what's missing in this conversation is the acknowledgement that contrary to popular belief, Mexico is not a free-for-all drug country. Certainly, there are exceptions, but speaking in very general terms, prescription laws are very similar (I'm sure Miguel can speak to this with more authority  ). If you need a prescription in the US or Canada, you'll likely need one in Mexico. The farmacias in border towns or tourist areas pander to people who are under the impression that Mexico is a regulation-free country.

We've spent a lot of tie visiting Mexico and have watched people attempt to self-medicate by purchasing bogus drugs from these establishments. I'm sure, occasionally, you'll get the "real" thing, but in every instance I've seen, the drugs are of very low quality, expired, or complete fakes and the outcome is never good. Not only do you have no controls with regard to what you are ingesting, you are illegally purchasing this material in a foreign country. Quite dangerous, all around. I understand your motives -- you felt awful and were desperate. Many, many others have done exactly what you've done so don't beat yourself up...I'm just glad you were able to be seen and have access to quality medications.


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## nikkij0814 (Jul 13, 2011)

I've been told by my endo that my body may change, causing it to need different levels of thyroid hormone meds my entire life. Things like menopause, aging, etc. can change how much you need. Also, if you take birth control pills (or stopped) it will change how much medication you need. Are you being careful to take it on an empty stomach and not miss any doses? This can affect things too. Sorry you're having a hard time - it really sucks when those levels are out of whack. Just keep working toward a solution with a doctor you trust - you should be able to get bloodwork done to monitor your progress. I felt horrible (HORRIBLE - anxiety, depression, emotionally unstable, etc. etc. etc.) for a year figuring this out, but now everything is fine. GOOD LUCK and call your doctor! If you can't get a hold of them easily enough, get a new one.


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

Counterfeit drugs can be found pretty much anywhere. The cancer drug Avastin was just in the news, as counterfeit batches were found in Europe and the US. This was medication provided to hospitals--one can only assume that there are greater risks when obtaining medications from unfamiliar sources.

For patients, this really means that you should be first familiar with your medication and it's side effects, and report any unusual reactions to your regular medications immediately to your doctor. Know your source, and what your medication looks like and inspect it for any changes each time you fill a prescription.

Our OP was lucky that there weren't more drastic consequences, and we are all very grateful for that. Hopefully other people who read her experiences will learn from it too.

@marshlakemom: Deb, there are a lot of reasons why your TSH values can shift--many people need periodic dose adjustments and that is normal. In the meantime, hopefully the clinic doc will get you back track soon, and provide you with the regular care you need until you return "home".


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## marshlakemom (Oct 25, 2010)

Well I guess there is a risk involved when purchasing across the border medications, I certainly don't mean to badger Mexican drugs, but I do feel something was wrong with the two I purchased, either weaker strengths, or something else. Just don't know. But I will not purchase anymore in the future just to stay on the safe side.

Octavia: I was put on synthyroid 2 years ago after having Grave's Disease and R.A.I. ...been a battle ever since. I really hope I am not taking to strong a dose now, at 175 mg. and go into a hyper state. I do see the doctor again in two 1/2 weeks for another blood draw.

Does anybody else out there suffer with chronic insomnia, I certainly do. I think if I could get some sleep my body would respond to the medications better. Had a really bad night again, having terrible hypo symptoms this morning.

Thanks again, all of you !

Deb


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

marshlakemom said:


> Does anybody else out there suffer with chronic insomnia, I certainly do. I think if I could get some sleep my body would respond to the medications better. Had a really bad night again, having terrible hypo symptoms this morning.


Yes...it often takes me hours to fall asleep, and it's not quality sleep much of the time. VERY rarely, I'll fall asleep within 30 minutes (whereas my husband consistently falls asleep within 30 seconds, seriously). Even when I take a Tylenol PM, it sometimes doesn't really help (that used to work very well for me). I don't want to take two of them because that makes me feel hungover the next morning, so I'm kind of stuck where I am, although I've never really tried any other sleep aids, prescription or otherwise.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

marshlakemom said:


> Well I guess there is a risk involved when purchasing across the border medications, I certainly don't mean to badger Mexican drugs, but I do feel something was wrong with the two I purchased, either weaker strengths, or something else. Just don't know. But I will not purchase anymore in the future just to stay on the safe side.
> 
> Octavia: I was put on synthyroid 2 years ago after having Grave's Disease and R.A.I. ...been a battle ever since. I really hope I am not taking to strong a dose now, at 175 mg. and go into a hyper state. I do see the doctor again in two 1/2 weeks for another blood draw.
> 
> ...


Deb, please consider that your thyroid may not have been completely knocked out and is growing back. It that is the case you could have high TSH due to TSI and TBII immunoglobulins. One opposes the other and you "feel" and it does skew the test numbers.

Just a thought.

TSI
Normally, there is no TSI in the blood. If TSI is found in the blood, this indicates that the thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin is the cause of the of a person's hyperthyroidism. 
http://www.medicineonline.com/topics/t/2/Thyroid-Stimulating-Immunoglobulin/TSI.html

TBII (Thyrotrophin Binding Inhibiting Immunoglobulin)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1969138

When you get back home and under your regular doctor's care, see if it would be smart to have RAIU. I had to have RAI 3 times.


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## miguel (Jul 18, 2011)

joplin1975 said:


> Mexican drugs are certainly not bogus. However, what's missing in this conversation is the acknowledgement that contrary to popular belief, Mexico is not a free-for-all drug country. Certainly, there are exceptions, but speaking in very general terms, prescription laws are very similar (I'm sure Miguel can speak to this with more authority  ). If you need a prescription in the US or Canada, you'll likely need one in Mexico. The farmacias in border towns or tourist areas pander to people who are under the impression that Mexico is a regulation-free country.
> 
> We've spent a lot of tie visiting Mexico and have watched people attempt to self-medicate by purchasing bogus drugs from these establishments. I'm sure, occasionally, you'll get the "real" thing, but in every instance I've seen, the drugs are of very low quality, expired, or complete fakes and the outcome is never good. Not only do you have no controls with regard to what you are ingesting, you are illegally purchasing this material in a foreign country. Quite dangerous, all around. I understand your motives -- you felt awful and were desperate. Many, many others have done exactly what you've done so don't beat yourself up...I'm just glad you were able to be seen and have access to quality medications.


Many people think that Mexico drugs are not regulated, but some medicines are regulated as antibiotics (penicillin, ciprofloxacin, dicloxacillin), psychiatric medicines (wellbutrin, tafil), anabolic steroids (testosterone, nandrolone), some medicines for sleep (it is illegal to buy zopiclone without prescription, is sold under the name of Imovane). If you get any of these drugs without prescription in Mexico is very likely to be false. In mexico vitamins such as calcium, vitamin D, multivitamins, selenium, iron, and many others is much more expensive than in U.S., otc drugs are also more expensive in Mexico as ibuprofen, aspirin, loratadine, fexofenadine, acetaminophen, cetirizine, naproxen among others. Pseudoephedrine is illegal in Mexico.


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