# Second opinion or not?



## Christi

I posted a few days ago stating a felt I had a contradictory wording in my sonogram. I was kinda freaking out at some of it's wording....and yet my PCP leaned towards waiting to see if my nodule changed. They ran bloodwork and honestly, everything was within "normal" ranges. Even my TPO antibodies were 20 < 40. I posted actual results in the newbie thread.

Anyway....I was referred to an ENT by my request.

I went in today. He stated that I had 2 nodules. One in my right thyroid lobe (5mm x 8mm). Hypoechoic. Some calcification noted. There was another small nodule in the submandibular triangle....possibly cyst.

He suggested a right Lymphetomy and scheduled 9 days from today.

So...I had a sonogram and a blood test....and now he wants to take out half of it. I'm confuses. He is supposed to be one of the best in town...but should I get a second opinion?

He said my thyroid nodule did not "excite" him, bring that it was only 8mm, but because it had some calcification, hypoechoic, I have the other nodule in my neck, and overall my thyroid is inhomogeneous....they are cancer indicators. I am a 39 year old female.

Just curious as to other thoughts. I left the office in peace...but now I question removing it without further testing.


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## joplin1975

I think second opinions are always good. Remind me, have you had a radioactive iodine uptake study?


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## Christi

Nope. Only the sonogram and then the what I would consider to be limited blood work. Which is why I thought scheduling surgery so quickly seemed odd. I went to the best because I didn't want to NEED a second opinion....but I wasn't expecting surgery. In fact...I was expecting to be sent home and then rechecked in 6 months!


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## joplin1975

Uh.

I'm still new to this but I'm not sure I'd go to surgery without a RAIU and/or a FNA. Surgery was relatively easy, but I can't see moving forward without knowing its the best & most reasonable option.

There are folks way more knowledgable on these boards & I'd be anxious to hear their opinions but, again, my personal preference was to exhaust the minimally invasive testing options before I could come to terms with surgery, if that makes sense?


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## Christi

Thank you. I went and picked up my labs today, and though I don't completely understand them...I do feel like they are "good".

Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab <10.0 Limits <35.0 U/ml
Thyroglobulin Antibody <20.0 <40.0 U/mlThe thyroid microsomal antigen has been shown to be Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO). This assay detects anti-TPO antibodies.

T4, Free, Free T4 1.18 limits .80-1.80 ngdL
TSH 1.33 units Ulu/mL reference run .34 -4.82

Nothing really jumps out to me. I have read no TPO anti-bodies should be present....but I am way low especially compared to so many others who have posted.


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## Christi

Yes...I was thinking on the same lines. He offered the FNA but felt that due to the other indicators....surgery would be the best option. So I scheduled it...when I started researching it and seeing so many others posting crazy numbers and all the other tests that have been exhausted....I wondered what I missed that he would opt for a partial so quickly.


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## Christi

Sorry....I copied & pasted my labs from a previous post and didn't delete that first sentence of having the labs that day. That was a previous post but wanted to show how "normal" my labs seemed to be.

I hate to 2nd guess this doctor...because he came so highly recommended...but I don't know...in reading other postings....mine just seemed so...unremarkable.


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## CLRRN

Hey Christi,

I know you've heard this a million times but we're all different but all seem to find our way here .

Take a look at my labs-All normal however I presented with a nodule-FNA inconclusive by all (except my gut). ENT offered to wait 3 months have another sono (watch/wait) or have a partial thyroidectomy. I'm not the watch/wait kind of person. He wanted me to see the ENDO, I did-she agreed w/partial decision or watch/wait. Standard of care was partial (8/16). My path was + for follicular carcinoma-no regrets. Had the remaining removed a week later (8/23). I had a nodule on the left and several on the right.

Take away message-get as much information that allows you make an informed decision that is good for YOU.

Hang in there...this is a great place for information and you can sort through personal experiences to help you along the way.

Chris


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## Christi

It has been so very interesting to see the varying stories, symptoms and labs. I went in for a nodule in my throat that was causing pain when I swallowed and hoarseness. They gave me a thyroid scan, but the nodule I went in for was ignored until I mentioned it. She then scanned it and added it to the report. The nodule on my thyroid is only 8mm. The doc stated he normally wouldn't consider a nodule under 1cm to be of any interest...but due to the other nodule it seemed to raise his suspicion. At least that is what I gathered. Even in your posting...you had a fairly large nodule along with several others. I only have the one in my thyroid. He said he couldn't touch the other one because it "had a pulse" meaning it sat on my artery. He recommended the partial thyroidectomy to get rid of my symptoms...so I could swallow and not have the hoarseness. He said if he did the FNA, it would diagnose but not aid in giving me relief.

My throat feels very restricted and like I can't swallow well in the one side. And that my overall thyroid was inhomogeneous wasn't "good".

I was hoping that the ENT would stick a needle in the lump, suck out it's juices and I would go on. How do you like that logic? Tee hee!


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## sonnyjane

I just wanted to say that I was recently diagnosed with Papillary Thyroid Cancer through an FNA (biopsy). I wasn't having any symptoms, but I do have a 2.2cm nodule. All of my blood tests showed "normal thyroid levels", so don't let your normal blood levels cloud your thinking - they aren't necessarily indicative of the problem. I'd probably push for a biopsy first if they can do it (your nodule is smaller than mine) before having surgery. At least ask! Good luck!


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## webster2

Hmmm...I think your gut is a good thing to listen to. I had a 6cm benign, and several 4mm and smaller that were papillary cancer, all of them crowded in the left side. You never know...I am glad they've gone to a better place!


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## SnoodMama

Christi said:


> It has been so very interesting to see the varying stories, symptoms and labs. I went in for a nodule in my throat that was causing pain when I swallowed and hoarseness. They gave me a thyroid scan, but the nodule I went in for was ignored until I mentioned it. She then scanned it and added it to the report. The nodule on my thyroid is only 8mm. The doc stated he normally wouldn't consider a nodule under 1cm to be of any interest...but due to the other nodule it seemed to raise his suspicion. At least that is what I gathered. Even in your posting...you had a fairly large nodule along with several others. I only have the one in my thyroid. He said he couldn't touch the other one because it "had a pulse" meaning it sat on my artery. He recommended the partial thyroidectomy to get rid of my symptoms...so I could swallow and not have the hoarseness. He said if he did the FNA, it would diagnose but not aid in giving me relief.
> 
> My throat feels very restricted and like I can't swallow well in the one side. And that my overall thyroid was inhomogeneous wasn't "good".
> 
> I was hoping that the ENT would stick a needle in the lump, suck out it's juices and I would go on. How do you like that logic? Tee hee!


Ok, I'm kind of confused here. So, you went in for a thyroid nodule, but they ignored it and looked at something else? (Is that something else in the thyroid?) Then you told them about the thyroid nodule and then they noted it. That doesn't fill me with confidence that they are not missing something else in the ultrasound. 8 mm seems kind of small to be interfering with swallowing. I almost wonder if they missed something, not to be alarmist or anything. I'm probably wrong.

I had 5 cm cyst causing choking sensation and multiple nodules > 1 cm and normal thyroid hormone levels. They did a total thyroidectomy and all was benign. None of my nodules had calcifications. Does your nodule feel hard? Mine were all very soft and mushy.

Do you know if they have a hard time doing an FNA on nodules < 1 cm? I wonder if they have a hard time getting the needle in it? Also, the FNA can be kind of frustrating because there are a lot of inconclusive findings. But, as long as you are prepared for that, and the doctor can confidently biopsy a nodule that size then I say you should totally go for the FNA.

It also depends on how annoying your swallowing symptoms are.

These decisions are so difficult. ARGH!!!!!hugs2


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## joplin1975

Ok, so let me just back up and offer clarification -- I think while we all have had different surgical experiences, the vast majority are happy they went through with their surgeries and, once the dust settles, are feeling better or are on their way to feeling better after all or part of the thyroid is removed.

So, that said, part of what confused me in your post was this:



Christi said:


> He suggested a right Lymphetomy and scheduled 9 days from today.


Did you perhaps mean a lobectomy? That is, he's suggesting that he take half of the thyroid out, correct?



> He recommended the partial thyroidectomy to get rid of my symptoms...so I could swallow and not have the hoarseness. He said if he did the FNA, it would diagnose but not aid in giving me relief.


If your chief complaint is a sore throat and difficulty swallowing, I can see his point. Certainly, I think second opinions have considerable value and would never encourage anyone not to seek one...but (apologies, my late day thinking is still a little foggy!) I got so confused with the lymphectomy wording I had forgotten that you mentioned the swallowing/throat tightness issue.

Yes, everyone is correct in that there are limits to all these tests, including ultrasounds, RAIU, and FNAs. I felt I was completely without symptoms prior to surgery, hence my need to exhaust all test options first, if that makes sense. Again, second opinions are always great...but I don't know if it is realistic to hope for relief from the throat issues with a "simple" aspiration of the the nodule.


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## Christi

Okay....I just realized there was a page 2 of replies! Sorry!

Yes....right lobe out.

I went in for a thyroid scan after my doctor felt the lump in my neck. The sonographer did a thorough exam but just of my thyroid. She didn't scan the original nodule that I went in for. So....I have 2 nodules. One that is 5mm by 8mm IN my right lobe. It is in a position that it sits on my trachea. It is very hard, can be felt but not seen on my neck. It had hypoechoic properties, and calcification. The other nodule is higher up and not in my thyroid but sits higher up on the right side. It is smaller, hard and has questionable cystic properties.

So....there are 2 nodules....one in and one out.

He said the palpable one in my throat (it protrudes a bit from my neck but not a lot) is NOT causing my throat to hurt or messing with my swallowing. He believes if he removes the right lobe with the 5mm x 8mm calcified nodule that it was relieve my symptoms. He was concerned that I had the neck nodule and thought perhaps it was a product of the thyroid nodule. He was further suspicious because my overall thyroid is inhomogeneous.

Does that make better sense? I'm sorry....I am doing my best to research and be informed but it is all blowing my mind. Who knew such a tiny dot of a nodule could be positioned in such a way it would wreck such havoc? Apparently it sits on the superficial right thyroid lobe.

He said he might be able to FNA it but that it would not relieve the discomfort the love is causing.


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## Christi

PS ~ the nodule in my thyroid is causing me to be hoarse and difficulty swallowing. It feels like a piece of popcorn in my throat. I am constantly trying to clear my throat but am unsuccessful. Eating bread and things that are "dry" I have difficulty getting it down. The ENT said that the tiny nodule is causing these things because of it's location. He normally wouldn't be concerned due to it's size, but due to it's lovation felt surgery (unless I could "deal" with my issues)....surgery was the best option. I originally thought they would just carve out the nodule, but obviously he explained it was the whole right lobe that would have to go. I'm a bit concerned I will wake up with no thyroid because I wonder what would cause my entire thyroid to be inhomogeneous.


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## Andros

Christi said:


> I posted a few days ago stating a felt I had a contradictory wording in my sonogram. I was kinda freaking out at some of it's wording....and yet my PCP leaned towards waiting to see if my nodule changed. They ran bloodwork and honestly, everything was within "normal" ranges. Even my TPO antibodies were 20 < 40. I posted actual results in the newbie thread.
> 
> Anyway....I was referred to an ENT by my request.
> 
> I went in today. He stated that I had 2 nodules. One in my right thyroid lobe (5mm x 8mm). Hypoechoic. Some calcification noted. There was another small nodule in the submandibular triangle....possibly cyst.
> 
> He suggested a right Lymphetomy and scheduled 9 days from today.
> 
> So...I had a sonogram and a blood test....and now he wants to take out half of it. I'm confuses. He is supposed to be one of the best in town...but should I get a second opinion?
> 
> He said my thyroid nodule did not "excite" him, bring that it was only 8mm, but because it had some calcification, hypoechoic, I have the other nodule in my neck, and overall my thyroid is inhomogeneous....they are cancer indicators. I am a 39 year old female.
> 
> Just curious as to other thoughts. I left the office in peace...but now I question removing it without further testing.


Christie; by all means get a second opinion. I will say however that anytime there is calcification noted, that is highly suspicious for cancer.

Did you have Thyroglobulin Ab run?

Understanding Thyroglobulin Ab.
http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/thyroglobulin/test.html

Thyroglobulin Ab
A negative test is normal. A negative test means no antibodies to thyroglobulin are found in your blood.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003557.htm
(The normal thyroid has Thyroglobulin in low titers but should not have Thyroglobulin Ab)

Where is the original nodule located that you went in for and it was not scanned? In your neck/clavicle area?

And, are you on thyroid medication prior to this incident? Have you had the Thyroid Panel of TSH, FREE T3 and FREE T4 run?

Just take your time making a decision; you are the one that has to be satisfied. We will help if we can.


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## joplin1975

OK, I understand now. I'm sorry for the confusion.

I think I would get a second opinion. That doesn't mean I think the doctor you are seeing now is not suggesting the right path. In fact, it does sound like you'll want to consider getting that lobe out, if not for anything, just for relief of symptoms.

I would be interested in knowing if the doctor(s) could tell you anything about that lump outside your thyroid...what can be done to investigate that? If they do the lobectomy, will they take out that lymph node for pathology as well?

My concern, if I were in your shoes, is that while nothing jumps out as WOW BAD RED LIGHT RED LIGHT, there are some things that are suspicious for cancer, as Andros said. I can't speak to this experience but a number of folks on this board have had one lobe out and, after surgery, found out that there were cancerous cells and eventually had to have the other lobe out. Is the surgery awful? No, in my experience it was not. Would I want to have it twice? Nope, sure wouldn't. I think I would want to gather as much information before surgery as possible to determine if it was cancer (and you may not be able to get there, but you may want to try). From that point, you could decide if a total or partial thyroidectomy was right for you (assuming that the second opinion doctor would also recommend a lobectomy).

That all said, it is your decision and you know what's best for you...I was just giving one person's perspective!


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## Christi

That's what I was seeking....perspective from people who have experienced thyroid issues. It is one thing to read about it, but entirely different to experience it. Though I trust the doctor....he hasn't experienced it. I had post partum thyroidism with my son three years ago. It was hell. Reading the symptoms and living them can't truly be compared.

My labs were fairly unremarkable. I posted them earlier. Though the antibodies were present, they were extremely low. Below 20.

The doctor seemed to believe the nodule in my neck was possibly a product of the 8mm nodule in my thyroid. I started to see and feel the neck nodule in August and hoarseness & swallowing difficulty followed. On August 28th....the nodule swelled and I swear it popped. I couldn't swallow without wincing & crying in pain. My husband wanted to take me to the ER but I took 2 Ambien and figured if they knocked me out and the pain didn't wake me up....I was fine. I know...stupid, really but I have 4 kids and it was late Sunday night and an ER trip for a mom is a bit inconvenient. The next morning my swallowing had vastly improved so I just decided it was nothing and moved on. Three weeks ago at a routine doctors visit....she noticed the lump. I hadn't mentioned it because I didn't think it was anything. I was in a car accident in April of this year so I just figured it was all wrapped up in my whiplash. I am unusually dizzy and exhausted ALL the time. Again, not sure if I should blame my thyroid or my neck muscles.


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## Christi

The neck novule sits on my artery....so he said he can't do anything about it. He is assuming it's a byproduct of my thyroid nodule and will either shrink on it's own....or if the thyroid shows cancer... Then that nodule would be treated with iodine. He assured my the neck nodule was not the one causing my symptoms.


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## Octavia

Christi, your situation is a little bit like mine. My labs were normal, but I had this discomfort with talking and swallowing (and I was a bit hoarse). In all honesty, I had probably been having symptoms of a vague "pain in my voice" and wierd swallowing for about 6 months, but I was either ignoring them, or I had gotten very used to them. I thought about calling my regular doctor about my voice hurting, but then I talked myself out of it, thinking, "What am I going to say...my voice hurts? Like that's a big deal..." (She generally blows me off, so I thought "why bother"?) Then one day, a lump became very visible "out of nowhere" it seemed, in the front of my neck.

The first ENT I went to ordered an FNA to find out whether it was cancerous, but told me ahead of time that I would probably want to have surgery either way, regardless of the cancer/no cancer result. The FNA turned out to be inconclusive/suspicious.

I went to another ENT at another hospital for a second opinion, and it was exactly the same as the first. He did not require another FNA, but suggested at least a partial thyroidectomy due to my symptoms, noting that the odds of it being cancerous were relatively slim, and he would prefer to leave the other half in so it could do its job. No such luck for me! I had to go back a few weeks later and get the other half out.  Like joplin says, if you can avoid that second surgery, that's the best option, but since my FNA was inconclusive, I took my chances and only had half out the first time.

Like others have said, the surgery itself isn't bad. And if it will help the discomfort, it's worth very serious consideration. So is a second opinion!


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## Andros

Christi said:


> That's what I was seeking....perspective from people who have experienced thyroid issues. It is one thing to read about it, but entirely different to experience it. Though I trust the doctor....he hasn't experienced it. I had post partum thyroidism with my son three years ago. It was hell. Reading the symptoms and living them can't truly be compared.
> 
> My labs were fairly unremarkable. I posted them earlier. Though the antibodies were present, they were extremely low. Below 20.
> 
> The doctor seemed to believe the nodule in my neck was possibly a product of the 8mm nodule in my thyroid. I started to see and feel the neck nodule in August and hoarseness & swallowing difficulty followed. On August 28th....the nodule swelled and I swear it popped. I couldn't swallow without wincing & crying in pain. My husband wanted to take me to the ER but I took 2 Ambien and figured if they knocked me out and the pain didn't wake me up....I was fine. I know...stupid, really but I have 4 kids and it was late Sunday night and an ER trip for a mom is a bit inconvenient. The next morning my swallowing had vastly improved so I just decided it was nothing and moved on. Three weeks ago at a routine doctors visit....she noticed the lump. I hadn't mentioned it because I didn't think it was anything. I was in a car accident in April of this year so I just figured it was all wrapped up in my whiplash. I am unusually dizzy and exhausted ALL the time. Again, not sure if I should blame my thyroid or my neck muscles.


Yes; I did go back and look at your labs. I missed that post. Thank you!

Whiplash can be extremely damaging to the thyroid. It crushes the gland. Many a person has had that happen and then they went on to have thyroid problems. So, given your history of post-partum, I would say that the whiplash sure did not help things along in a good way.

And you do have a "smattering" of Thyroglobulin Ab. Even though they are below the range, like the TPO, you should have none. Also, these things wax and wane. They could be high one week or even a day and not the other. The trick is to catch them at their worst.

Wow! On the bright side; how old are your children? What a wonderful thing to have a housefull as they say. I am one of 4 so I can identify.


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## Christi

I have four....Katelyn is 12, Ashley is 11, Bethany is 5 and Dawson is 3. And I homeschool. The doctor suggested my exhaustion is mire related to my children than my thyroid....but I have not experienced this type of exhaustion before August...not to this degree.

Doc is doing post op labs on Friday. Even then, his order didn't seem to include a full thyroid panel...CBC and something else. I suppose it could be thyroid testing but by a different name. I don't know. I'm so exhausted I am foggy with it all. My husband doesn't know anything about the thyroid so it's hard to bounce things off on him because it is all so foreign to him. Then I have a good friend who had her thyroid taken out last year....TT and had tall & short cells (the cell thing I do not even begin to understand) but it almost killed her. Now for the last five months she has had strep. So....she is very pro taking out my whole thyroid. I'm just stuck. A second opinion scares me because it will be more information to process and if the second opinion differs from the first....then to I get a third and let the majority win? Lol!

I am leaning towards them taking my whole head! Ha!


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## Octavia

Christi said:


> I am leaning towards them taking my whole head! Ha!


I could be wrong about this as I'm no doctor, but I think that might slightly inhibit your ability to homeschool your kids!


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## Christi

Octavia - somehow I missed your post about the similarities in your experience and mine.

I am a bit confused because the ENT me he would remove my right lobe, and send it off to pathology. If it came back cancerous, he would remove the left side. I was under the assumption it would be within the same surgery. I had read pathogy and diagnosis can take 2 weeks....

So I guess my assumption is wrong. He would take the right, close me up, send it off and if it is cancerous...open me up again at a later date? Eww!


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## Christi

Lol! True! It's already gotten increasingly difficult for sure...with at least I someone have my head....though some days I wonder! :0)


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## Octavia

Christi said:


> Octavia - somehow I missed your post about the similarities in your experience and mine.
> 
> I am a bit confused because the ENT me he would remove my right lobe, and send it off to pathology. If it came back cancerous, he would remove the left side. I was under the assumption it would be within the same surgery. I had read pathogy and diagnosis can take 2 weeks....
> 
> So I guess my assumption is wrong. He would take the right, close me up, send it off and if it is cancerous...open me up again at a later date? Eww!


Your assumption is somewhat correct. They do what's called a "frozen section" analysis during your surgery to see if they can immediately see cancer, and if so, they'll go ahead and take the remaining half. The caveat is that those frozen sections aren't always correct...many times, it's a "false positive" or a "false negative" and the "real" pathology comes back with the true results a week or two later.

My surgeon did not have much confidence in the frozen section analysis, and he told me about its limitations prior to my surgery. Plus, he wanted to do everything possible to try to preserve half my thyroid. My frozen section was negative for cancer, but my "real" pathology was positive...so, back to the operating room I went.

It stinks, I know, but several of us here have lived through it.


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## joplin1975

Christi, you might want to look at this site...which talks about (in general terms) some of the limitations of pathological exams during surgery for follicular cancer: http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/thyroid/follicular.html


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## Christi

I just read this: CONCLUSIONS: When calcification is noted within a solitary thyroid nodule, the risk of malignancy is very high. Surgery should be recommended regardless of the result of fine-needle aspiration cytologic findings.

That was from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12112538/

Not sure how reliable it is....but it does make more sense as to why I felt he "encouraged" surgery...though he was supportive to an FNA.


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## Christi

I am reading the information you just sent. Interesting stuff! It is amazing such a small organ can make such a massive impact on a person!


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## Andros

Christi said:


> I have four....Katelyn is 12, Ashley is 11, Bethany is 5 and Dawson is 3. And I homeschool. The doctor suggested my exhaustion is mire related to my children than my thyroid....but I have not experienced this type of exhaustion before August...not to this degree.
> 
> Doc is doing post op labs on Friday. Even then, his order didn't seem to include a full thyroid panel...CBC and something else. I suppose it could be thyroid testing but by a different name. I don't know. I'm so exhausted I am foggy with it all. My husband doesn't know anything about the thyroid so it's hard to bounce things off on him because it is all so foreign to him. Then I have a good friend who had her thyroid taken out last year....TT and had tall & short cells (the cell thing I do not even begin to understand) but it almost killed her. Now for the last five months she has had strep. So....she is very pro taking out my whole thyroid. I'm just stuck. A second opinion scares me because it will be more information to process and if the second opinion differs from the first....then to I get a third and let the majority win? Lol!
> 
> I am leaning towards them taking my whole head! Ha!


A sense of humor can save the day!

What a wonderful family you have and home schooling is the bomb. If I were raising a family today, I would do the same. I would be terrified to send them to public school.

Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers. And by the way, it's not the children, it's the thyroid. LOL!!


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## Octavia

Christi said:


> That was from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12112538/
> 
> Not sure how reliable it is....


Hey, it's from the government AND it's on the Internet, so it's gotta be true, right!

(Sorry, bad attempt at humor, I know.) But seriously, I do believe all signs are pointing to a need for surgery.

The discomfort you are feeling is "enough" reason for some to have surgery. Plus you have some calcification on top of it, which leads me to believe you're not going to get any relief without surgery, not to mention the cancer risk.

Sending hugs your way. :hugs:


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## Christi

Giggle. Okay....that made me laugh! Trusting the Internet is bad enough....but trusting the government as well....just shows how my well my brain is functioning! Snort!

But....reading and being informed is definitely bringing me a bigger peace for the go ahead on surgery....now to figure out if I want to encourage a TT or take my chances with the possibility of a second surgery....


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## Octavia

One thing you might want to consider is an FNA biopsy. It might show nothing (which won't help your decision), it might be inconclusive (which won't help your decision), or it might show definitive cancer, which will definitely help your decision.


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## Andros

Christi said:


> I just read this: CONCLUSIONS: When calcification is noted within a solitary thyroid nodule, the risk of malignancy is very high. Surgery should be recommended regardless of the result of fine-needle aspiration cytologic findings.
> 
> That was from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12112538/
> 
> Not sure how reliable it is....but it does make more sense as to why I felt he "encouraged" surgery...though he was supportive to an FNA.


Yep! Any calicification; even on the rim.


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## Christi

I love homeschooling! I am FINALLY smarter than a fifth grader...but only because I teach one....though I am probably equavilant to the seventh grader! I am not ashamed to admit, I learn right with her! It is amazing how much we forget over the years! At least now, at 39....I appreciate WHY we learn the things we do...and find it to be incredibly interesting! Except for integers in math...those are just stupid.


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