# New and have a quick question about switching from Liothyronine to Armour



## weerawr (Sep 16, 2011)

Hi, my name is Kellie. I'm 39, soon to be 40. I was diagnosed with Fibro, Hashi's and RT3 a couple of years ago. I've been treated with Liothyronine (Cytomel I think is the name brand) at 47mcg for the Hashi's. Last test results showed FT4 slightly low, FT3 slightly low, and my TPO ani's at 1364 with the range being 0-30. I would post my results but they have disappeared in the past 24 hours, but once I get another copy from old doc tomorrow I will post the actual results. They've tried putting me on Synthroid and it's generic and last week on Tirosant (all on the absolute lowest dosages they make). I don't tolerate these T4 drugs well, as they cause unbearable heart palps.

Anyway...new doc yesterday decided to put me on something called Armour, 1 60mg (1 grain), I guess is how this stuff is done, in the morning like I normally would

My question is this. What am I to expect going from 47 mcg of straight T3 to a way lower dose of 9mcg T3 and 38mcg of T4? I really despise the heart palps and have stopped meds for this reason alone.

Any advise on what to expect from the switch is greatly appreciated. I'm extremely fed up with feeling like death warmed over every day


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## kimis (Jul 16, 2011)

Hi Kellie, I have no advice for you but I take a lot of cytomel as well. I never could take t4...it gave me palps and other weird symptoms too. Why do you want to switch to natural...are you having problems with the t3? I am very interested to see how you make out! I wish you the best of luck!


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## weerawr (Sep 16, 2011)

Thanks for the reply.

I'm not the one wanting to switch, the docs are doing this. They said something to the extent that the T3 isn't enough and I need the T4 now and that I need to get the antibody count way down and that this switch should do it. Which to be honest I don't really understand, because if I have ReverseT3 (RT3), the T4 isn't going to help from what I've been able to determine from all of the reading I've done...

Like I said in my original post, I've only ever been on the straight T3 with a couple of days on T4 thrown in...but the side effects are debilitating. Maybe because the T4 was actually working and I was producing too much T3 during the time I was taking the T4...I don't know.

But the switch over is causing anxiety as I do not want to slide 10 steps back instead of going 2 steps forward. I hate being a guinea pig while they figure out correct dosages.

Sorry for the rant. I'm just extremely frustrated right now :scared0015:


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

weerawr said:


> Hi, my name is Kellie. I'm 39, soon to be 40. I was diagnosed with Fibro, Hashi's and RT3 a couple of years ago. I've been treated with Liothyronine (Cytomel I think is the name brand) at 47mcg for the Hashi's. Last test results showed FT4 slightly low, FT3 slightly low, and my TPO ani's at 1364 with the range being 0-30. I would post my results but they have disappeared in the past 24 hours, but once I get another copy from old doc tomorrow I will post the actual results. They've tried putting me on Synthroid and it's generic and last week on Tirosant (all on the absolute lowest dosages they make). I don't tolerate these T4 drugs well, as they cause unbearable heart palps.
> 
> Anyway...new doc yesterday decided to put me on something called Armour, 1 60mg (1 grain), I guess is how this stuff is done, in the morning like I normally would
> 
> ...


Welcome!










And we will like to see your most recent lab results! with the ranges included.

You should do fine; your doctor is correctly retitrating your new med. Get labs every 8 weeks so he/she can continue to titrate either up or down as suited.

What is the highest your rT3 has been and could you include a lab range w/that also?

When taking any form of T3, one expects the FT4 to be low and it should be of little concern. Same with the TSH. What matters most of all and I know you know this (but for our reader's edification), FREE T3 becomes the most important lab test. Not throwing the other labs in the trash mind you. Just empathizing the importance of FT3.

I have been on Armour for years and I personally like to take mine after I have had one cup of coffee w/real cream. I don't like to take it on a totally empty tummy. Do what you think is best to do.

What antibodies' tests have you had and have you ever had a sonogram or ultra-sound of your thyroid?


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## weerawr (Sep 16, 2011)

Hopefully this will post...my other from this morning didn't for some reason. Anyway...

Thanks Andros. I am waiting on my old doc to fax me my last 3 lab results and will happily post those for all to see..lol To be honest, I'm not sure when the last time my RT3 was tested. I know the new doc will be testing for that along with everything else under the sun.

They are doing one or the other (ultrasound/sonogram) on 10/10. Will definitely post those results once I get them.

Pharmacist actually told me that was the best way to take the Armour if I was a coffee drinker. I have mine with Splenda and Coffeemate Creamer. He said have my coffee in the morning and take the Armour when I start getting ready for work. I really like having my coffee in the morning. 

Ok...while I was typing this, my results came in. These are for September 2010 - August 2011.

Date: 9/27/10
TSH - 3.12 (0.450-4.500)
FT4 - 0.85 (0.82-1.77)
T3 Uptake - 27 (24-39)
Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) ab - >600 (0-34)
FT3 - 2.7 (2.0-4.4)

Date: 1/14/11
TSH - 2.710 (0.450-4.500) 
FT4 - 0.99 (0.82-1.77)
FT3 - 3.2 (2.0-4.4)

Date: 4/18/11
TSH - 2.520 (0.450-4.500)
FT4 - 0.72 (0.82-1.77)
T3 Uptake - 24 (24-39)
FT3 - 2.7 (2.0-4.4)

Date: 8/19/11
TSH - 6.410 (0.450-4.500)
FT4 - .53 (0.82-1.77)
T3 Uptake - 23 (24-39)
Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) ab - 1365 (0-34) **results verified by repeat testing**
FT3 - 2.8 (2.0-4.4)

Sooo...any thoughts? I'm guessing the above numbers (from last month) are why I have been feeling worse than "normal".


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

weerawr said:


> Hopefully this will post...my other from this morning didn't for some reason. Anyway...
> 
> Thanks Andros. I am waiting on my old doc to fax me my last 3 lab results and will happily post those for all to see..lol To be honest, I'm not sure when the last time my RT3 was tested. I know the new doc will be testing for that along with everything else under the sun.
> 
> ...


Yes; that TSH needs to come down and FT3 sure needs to come up.

Most of us feel best w/TSH @ 1.0 or less and the FREE T3 at about 75% of the range provided for your lab. Your FT3 is below the mid-range; you must feel exhausted.

Glad about the coffee; you will be good to go!


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## weerawr (Sep 16, 2011)

Exhausted doesn't even begin to describe it...but you deal with what you have to deal with.

What are your thoughts on the high TPO ab numbers? Suggestive of anything?


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

weerawr said:


> Exhausted doesn't even begin to describe it...but you deal with what you have to deal with.
> 
> What are your thoughts on the high TPO ab numbers? Suggestive of anything?


Yes; that is why I asked if you ever had a sonogram or ultra-sound. Sometimes it is "suggestive" of cancer. Especially when it is high and more especially if the patient also has Thyroglobulin Ab.

cancer TPO and thyroglobulin
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1699-0463.1994.tb04888.x/abstract

Understanding Thyroglobulin Ab.
http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/thyroglobulin/test.html

TPO Ab
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003556.htm

TPO Ab should be negative, 0
http://www.medlabs.com.jo/docs/Leaflet-17.pdf
(The normal thyroid has TPO but should not have antibodies to TPO)


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