# You were right... NEVER do a partial thyroidectomy!



## kidsabc

Well.... go ahead and say it.... you told me so :sad0049:

As you know, last Thursday I had a partial thyroidectomy. I had posted on the board all my dilema's with choosing MD Anderson and a partial vs. a total. What I didn't post was all the drama behind the scenes. Namely, that as a worrier of all health related matters, I was really FREAKED out about my cancer. I know that most (local) people with thyroid cancer (that I happen to know of and were able to talk to), seem like they are handling it like its no big deal... I would like to know how to ARRIVE there (if you have any advice).

So, because I was freaked out, I researched the best hospital in the USA and the best surgeon at that hospital. I waited 3 weeks for an appointment and went last week. The BIG surprise was that I was told after a clear chest CT, a clear lymph node ultrasound, and a 1 cm papillary carcinoma FNA- that I only needed a partial, no body scan, no radioactive iodine, NOTHING except repeat ultrasounds. It took the surgeon 1 hr at consult, my husband arguing with me all night, and another doctor 1 hr pre-op... to convince me to go with theory because EVERYTHING I had ever read went against this. Their reasons? Small node, no other indicators of anything else, age, preserving half thyroid, less risks, less complications, etc.

Today I got the pathology report. 1cm papillary, conventional variant, completely encapsulated with clear margins, no other cancer on left side or isthmus, and lymph node removed was clear.... BUT, there were 3 lymph nodes unintentionally removed with the thyroid portion... and 1 of those had a tiny amount of papillary. Ugh.

Sooooo, now I have to repeat surgery, WITH a central neck dissection, WITH body scans and the whole sha-bang, but they want to wait 6 months!!!!!

I'm seriously gonna have a nervous breakdown! I've never been so mad in my whole life!! Mad at myself for not staying true to what I knew, mad at them, mad at God, mad at my husband, you name it.

Should I wait six months? Seek another doctor to do it now? How can cancer end up in a lymph node if it is encapsulated with clear margins? What is your advice on how to proceed and what treatments to get?

I sooooo should have listened. Please forgive me. Lol. Thanks again guys!


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## joplin1975

You can wait six months, for sure. If it were me, I'd want to get back to the business of living life and would get the completion surgery done ASAP (again, to underscore, it is NOT dangerous to wait).

Why? After a total, it can be challenging to find the right medication and the right dose of that medication. With RAI, they either artificially stimulate your TSH (with injections) or let you go with out medication post-op. In either case, it's a bit of an extra bump in the process. Once I was done with it all, I just wanted to get back to normal as quickly as possible. That said, I didn't have a second surgery...those who did are your better bet.

For what it's worth, my pre-op ultrasound and radioiodine uptake scans did not show lymph node involvement nor did they show, in addition to the three cancerous nodules on the left side, the three cancerous nodules on the right side. There are significant limitations to imaging and blood tests.

My guess is that the lymph nodes are involved because you probably don't just have one well encapsulated nodule...there's likely another one hiding in there that isn't as well behaved.

I get why you are angry, but just remember, in medicine, there are few, if any absolutes. My husband always says there's a very good reason it is called "practicing medicine." At least now you have all your information and can move forward.

Good luck!


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## webster2

Hey, don't beat yourself up over it. Decisions like this are really difficult to make. No crystal ball was around for you to see what would happen. Get the other half out as soon as you can, and look forward, not backward. Life is good.


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## Andros

kidsabc said:


> Well.... go ahead and say it.... you told me so :sad0049:
> 
> As you know, last Thursday I had a partial thyroidectomy. I had posted on the board all my dilema's with choosing MD Anderson and a partial vs. a total. What I didn't post was all the drama behind the scenes. Namely, that as a worrier of all health related matters, I was really FREAKED out about my cancer. I know that most (local) people with thyroid cancer (that I happen to know of and were able to talk to), seem like they are handling it like its no big deal... I would like to know how to ARRIVE there (if you have any advice).
> 
> So, because I was freaked out, I researched the best hospital in the USA and the best surgeon at that hospital. I waited 3 weeks for an appointment and went last week. The BIG surprise was that I was told after a clear chest CT, a clear lymph node ultrasound, and a 1 cm papillary carcinoma FNA- that I only needed a partial, no body scan, no radioactive iodine, NOTHING except repeat ultrasounds. It took the surgeon 1 hr at consult, my husband arguing with me all night, and another doctor 1 hr pre-op... to convince me to go with theory because EVERYTHING I had ever read went against this. Their reasons? Small node, no other indicators of anything else, age, preserving half thyroid, less risks, less complications, etc.
> 
> Today I got the pathology report. 1cm papillary, conventional variant, completely encapsulated with clear margins, no other cancer on left side or isthmus, and lymph node removed was clear.... BUT, there were 3 lymph nodes unintentionally removed with the thyroid portion... and 1 of those had a tiny amount of papillary. Ugh.
> 
> Sooooo, now I have to repeat surgery, WITH a central neck dissection, WITH body scans and the whole sha-bang, but they want to wait 6 months!!!!!
> 
> I'm seriously gonna have a nervous breakdown! I've never been so mad in my whole life!! Mad at myself for not staying true to what I knew, mad at them, mad at God, mad at my husband, you name it.
> 
> Should I wait six months? Seek another doctor to do it now? How can cancer end up in a lymph node if it is encapsulated with clear margins? What is your advice on how to proceed and what treatments to get?
> 
> I sooooo should have listened. Please forgive me. Lol. Thanks again guys!


Aw; sugars!! I am so so sorry!!! Just because something is encapsulated does not mean there are not other areas individually affected. Sad, but true!!

Let the anger out (I don't blame you) and do what the tough do and get going. We are here for you and we are very much on your team.


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## Octavia

joplin1975 said:


> You can wait six months, for sure. If it were me, I'd want to get back to the business of living life and would get the completion surgery done ASAP (again, to underscore, it is NOT dangerous to wait).


I agree. If you can, get it over with and get on with life. But if you do wait, that's okay.

I feel your pain, sort of. On two sugeons recommendations, I went with a partial, BUT we did not know in advance that I had cancer, so that's where I can totally understand your frustration. I, too, had to go back for a completion, which I did about 2 or 3 weeks later. I was happy to get it all done in a relatively small amount of time and put it behind me.

Just remember, medicine is not an exact science. We and our doctors often have to take our best guess using what we know.

:hugs:


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## susieintexas

I didn't/don't deal with it well. I found a support group through the Cancer Support Center that helps. But to be honest my husband really didn't take it well. I think I started worrying at Day 1, he started worrying when he realized it would not be as easy to treat as they had led us to believe. I am a big believer in less is more when it comes to treating cancer so I would be ok with waiting but I also understand if you are not. Once you have a met, you have a met. There is no hurry up and treat, its not like you need to treat so you don't get mets at that point.

My mom has non-hodgkins lymphoma. She always has cancer. She always has 'hot spots' but she only treats every 5-7 years when she HAS to. I think that is why she is still here and doing well 30 years after her diagnoses.

I am in your same boat. I had 2 small, well defined, just under 1cm spots. No RAI, but I did have a total. Now I have a lymph with a met and judging by the size of the lymph, I had it when they did the total last year. I also have a small something in the right thyroid bed. unfortunately they used SO many clips in my TT, they are not able to see the tumor in the bed via CT, only sono.

I can see them wanting the area to calm down so to speak before they go back in. I do trust them and I trust the treatment plan they have for me, but I love that they were ok with, and encouraged me to wait. My surgeon up here, scared the crap out of me, wanting to do the surgery ASAP and she didn't even know about the lymph met. They found that in Houston, so that would have been a 3rd surgery for me. I want them to have all of there ducks in a row, know where they are going and what they are looking for.

I was there in Dec and had $10,000 in testing (just testing). I go back in June and will have all of those tests rerun (for another $10,000) so we will be able to compare. I have the added complication of having Hyperparathyroidism which means I have a tumor of somesort on a parathyroid. Problem, they can't find them. They were only able to locate 2 during my total. I have 2, somewhere, one of which has something growing on it. It is not uncommon to have to do exploratory surgery to find them but when you are dealing with an already 'angry' scar tissued up neck, it is a problem. They say that it will be an benign growth because parathryoid cancer only occurs 1 in 10,000,000. My gut can't help but worry about if THAT is what has caused all if the cancer they have found and they still have not found the original source. I would like to have a full body scan but I'm not eligible.

Do you think you would be OK with waiting?

I think you should seek a second opinion, if nothing more than for your piece of mind.

I don't know how to get to a good place. Honestly I do best, trying to ignore it. Currently my lips are numb so it is making itself hard to ignore.


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## jenny v

Aw, hon, I'm so sorry for what you're going through and I don't blame you for being angry. I would say don't beat yourself up too much, you did the best you could with a new and overwhelming situation. Let the anger out (it's not good for your mental health to let it simmer) and then take charge of your treatment the way you feel most comfortable with. You let others help control the first round of treatment and it didn't go the way you wanted, so now I say you control this second round. Hang in there!


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## kidsabc

Thanks for the input. Haven't stopped crying since the pathology report. Felt so good to get your support. Husband is avoiding me; seems his method of dealing with my cancer, is to yell at me anytime I disagree with him about my treatment plan. 8 kids at home... how in the world am I going to get through hypothyroidism and radiation???? Part of me wants to hurry and get the surgery/tests over with and part of me wants to ignore that I heard 'lymph node involvement' and forget radiation. Cancer is ruining my life!

So the doctor told me that lymph node involvement does not change my 'thyroid cancer doesn't negatively affect the length of your life' prognosis... 1) if thats true then why all the tests and added therapy 2) was that even true to begin with... does thyroid cancer REALLY not change how long we are going to live... or is this false hope 3) how does mestasis into a lymph really change the outlook 4) tell me again, how it can get there if pathology shows no other tumors on the thyroid and it was encapsulated... can a tumor be sticking to my (let's say) trachea?

oh, you HAVE GOT TO read this book "Dirty Bombshell- from thyroid cancer to fabulous" by Lorna Brunelle and the book I just finished was "It's not about the Bike" by Lance Armstrong. Very funny and encouraging with help on 'wrapping your head around cancer'.

This morning I called the assistant to my surgeon (he was the one that called with pathology) and told him that I can't do 6 months. It's not the best choice for me emotionally, physically (cancer spreading), or dealing with monitoring my potential hypothyroidism, or dealing with my blood thinning medication (I have to be on shots twice a day versus pills while doing surgeries), and I don't want to be dealing with hypo-he*l during the holidays.

Looking forward to all the treatments is so depressing. I admire the strength and courage of all of you that has gone through the treatment already. Do you really feel like yourself on thyroid replacement?

Thanks again!!


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## joplin1975

First off, if you have eight kids to take care of (HOLY MOTHER OF OPRAH!!! I can barely take care of myself), might I suggest that you at least inquire about thyrogen -- the injections they use to artificially stimulate your TSH so you don't have to go hypo?

Now, to your questions:



> So the doctor told me that lymph node involvement does not change my 'thyroid cancer doesn't negatively affect the length of your life' prognosis...1) if thats true then why all the tests and added therapy


Simply because it wasn't confined to one area...or, it wasn't encapsulated. With thyroid surgery, it's not "clean." Lots of little pieces are left behind. It's darn near impossible to get all of it. So, if there is cancer left over, they can't just let it be...it's got to be eradicated.



> 2) was that even true to begin with... does thyroid cancer REALLY not change how long we are going to live... or is this false hope


Papillary has a near 100% cure rate. I say near only because those who do not follow up with more aggressive treatment and then yearly scans are usually the cases that cause that number not to be a solid 100%.

Mine was *not* well-encapsulated and was in the lymph nodes and I can tell you that my feisty backside plans on being around for a heck of a long time. 



> 3) how does mestasis into a lymph really change the outlook


It _slightly_ increases your chance for a recurrence, but that even if there is a recurrence, it does not change the long term prognosis.



> 4) tell me again, how it can get there if pathology shows no other tumors on the thyroid and it was encapsulated... can a tumor be sticking to my (let's say) trachea?


Pathology only showed there was not other tumors *IN THE SIDE THEY TOOK OUT*. I'd bet dollar to donuts that you have other cancerous nodules that are not well-encapsulated on the other side.

Regardless, this is the beauty of the RAI. It destroys thyroid cells (cancerous and non-cancerous) through out your body. You get a tracer dose first, then they do a scan, then depending on how much residual thyroid tissue they can see -- be it in you neck or on in other parts of the body -- they determine your dose size. I had "significant' through out my neck. One year later, there was zero. Nada. Nothing.



> Do you really feel like yourself on thyroid replacement?


Yup, I do. Better than I have in years, as I've said before. Seriously, cancer was the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm almost grateful. :tongue0013:

I know it feels overwhelming now. I do. But of all the bumps in the road I've had in my 37 years, this one was pretty minor. I'm not trying to invalidate your feelings, I just want you to know it's not all that awful. In fact, my cousin's wife had thyroid cancer about ten years ago. Same as me, with lymph node involvement. She had two kids at the time and went on to have two more and is living a very full life. A year before I was diagnosed, my intern was diagnosed. She currently riding her bike across (through?) South America while planning her wedding.


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## joplin1975

PS -- again, know that I am a hard-headed stubborn person...too stubborn most of the time...but I do believe your mindset and perspective can really impact things. Cancer will only ruin your life if you let it.


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## Octavia

joplin1975 said:


> I do believe your mindset and perspective can really impact things. Cancer will only ruin your life if you let it.


Well said, joplin. From Day 1, I looked at mine as not too big of a deal, and it has turned out be not too big of a deal. I even tried to "verify" with my ENT that this was "cancer with a little c," although he wanted to make clear that cancer is still cancer. For me, it's been a major inconvenience, and not much more than that, honest. I do very much feel like myself on replacement meds.

I firmly believe that attitude can make a huge difference. Now, this is all still very new news for you, and hearing the C word sucks, and it's a bit of a shock, yes. But don't let it get the best of you. Take some deep breaths, talk it through with a counselor if you need to, but try to keep your chin up - YOU CAN DO THIS!!! And it will not ruin your life!


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## webster2

I, too, believe that attitude is everything. Your kids will get their clue from you, and you don't want 8 upset or fearful children about their mom's health. Hang in there, it really does get better. I am 53 and feel much better than I have in a long long time.


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## kidsabc

UPDATE: Just spoke to the surgeon directly....Dr. Clayman of MD Anderson.

There was slight miscommunication, I think.

He says that the lymph node that he removed and did a frozen section of mid-surgery (and it showed benign) was the one that came back positive with microcarcinoma. He went on to say that the current protocol is to have a TTand RAI. It is his recommendation that I opt NOT to do those things, but rather, carefully monitor the neck with ultrasounds and go ahead and start hormone replacement to make me hyper (suppresion therapy) and get my Tg levels to zero so we can use that as a predictor of future cancer progress. If we see any future activity, then we address it at that time. He is still convinced that my right lobe (still in my body) is clear and that the risks of the procedures surpass the low risks of recurrance (he says less than 1%). He also stated that he will do a TT in six months if I wish to proceed in that direction.

So here I am again. Trust this doctor and do nothing but hormones? Get a TT and RAI? Get a second opinion?

Part of me wants to do everything I can do (RAI, TT, Bodyscans, etc) by probably going to another clinic and just getting it over with and moving on.... part of me hates the thought of hypo and RAI and likes thinking about less than 1%... part of me is coming to the conclusion that this cancer is never really 'over' but rather 'maintained'....??

Joplin your responses really spoke to me.... thank you


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## joplin1975

You are very welcome.

Well...you can google this, but you probably won't get your Tg levels to zero. They usually want them under 1...some people under 2. Mine where 0.2 in September and considered "undetectable." Only saying this just so you know. If you have half a lobe remaining and microcarcinomas in the nodes, I would imagine you'll always have some level of Tg. Generally, you look at that number over time to see if it's increasing and that's your red flag.

You have to decide what's right for you. I consider myself cancer free. I would not be ok in maintenance mode. That said, I have a co-worker in maintenance mode and she seems to be doing well. I'm just the kind of person who likes a clean slate. To each their own -- what's your gut feeling about the surgeon?


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## jenny v

Did the doctor say why he recommended you opt to not do a completion TT and RAI?

I would say take a few days or weeks to give your body a chance to heal and your mind to wrap itself around all of this information (it's a lot to take in!) and decide what YOU are comfortable with.


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## kidsabc

I feel so confused... this has been a roller coster ride. When I got so angry the other day (the day I wrote the first post), it was actually very cleansing. Maybe I just needed to get angry at cancer rather than scared. I've been feeling better since and am just wanting to research and make the best decision.

You can google Dr. Clayman at MD Anderson. I researched before I had my surgery and hand picked him. According to what I read, MD Anderson and Clayman were the tops in the USA. MD Anderson is the place receiving all the cases and pathology that no one else can figure out. Meeting him in person, I loved this man. Very assured, but not cocky. His confidence and calming demeanor worked wonders on both me and my untrusting-to-all-medical-staff husband. He called me from home the night before the surgery to ask if he could answer any questions, etc. wow.

The way he explained it to me was that the lymph node removed was benign on quick path in the operating room, but later on pathology showed positive for a few bad cells. He apologized as this rarely happens. He said that the current guidelines with the American Cancer Society state that with lymph node involvement of any kind, a TT with neck dissection and RAI with body scans are performed. However, these were old guidelines and not the new way research was thinking. That MD was in the process of changing these protocols and was working closely with Japan (who has a nuclear history and well documented numerous cases). He said when he was first a surgeon 25 years ago he felt the same as me... take the aggresive approach... but that over the course of thousands of patients, he had realized (the same that Japan has realized) that the aggressive approaches have the exact same outcomes as the conservative approaches but with the extra risks involved (4% chance of another cancer with RAI, saliva gland damage, etc) and the lack of tissue (good lymph nodes removed and good thyroid tissue removed) that can no longer function for the good of your body. He also said Japan was the forefront of thyroid cancer because of all the cases they suffer (there was a japanese man there the day I met him, following him around) and they don't even surgically remove lessions as small as mine 10mm. And that I have probably had my cancer for 20-30 years and it took that long to grow that 'small'... and it would take another 20-30 years for it to grow that 'small' again.

When I talk to him he makes perfect sense andit all sounds reasonable... even brillant. Yet, after a couple of days, I start to doubt and since it is CANCER ...I don't want to make a mistake that could kill me... the stakes are so high.

He then said he would put me on suppression therapy and then see me in six months to repeat tests. If anything is found on the tests or if I just want to, he will perform a TT. Can you be suppressed with part of a thyroid? Does it destroy or atrophy the existing thryoid?

I think the hard part is trusting someone outside the box, especially with something so important. Any thoughts?

Oh, and do most people with papillary also have lymph node involvement or not? Just curious.


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## annieo

I think you have to ask yourself if you are going to be ok with the wait and see approach knowing you had cancer in part of your thyroid. I noticed in your original post you said you are a worrier of all things health related. I too am a worrier and if I had gotten a partial and they found cancer I would have had to get the rest out and gone through everything to ensure I was cancer free or else I would be in constant fear doing the wait and see kind of thing. It would eat at me.

Ann


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## susieintexas

Honestly, I don't think anyone can say what is right for you. You have two choices, one that the ACS says is 'right' and one that a leader in the field says is 'right'. Take some time, do some soul searching and be confident in your choice knowing it is right for you.


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## MaaDoo

I can understand Kidsabc anger. I'm currently faced with the decision of 1/2 or total removal. The Dr. suggests to remove the right and do the freeze section. I understanding trying to save half if it can take over and function for me without meds, which I don't take as of now. Dr indicated it was up to me if I wanted to take out the whole thing. Why do they leave that option up to us? They are the experts! I should get a call next week for sugery. I don't want to go thru a second sugery, but I understand partial has less risks.


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## kidsabc

MaDoo- watch youtube thyroid cancer videos by memorial sloan kettering as it discusses both sides. If it wasn't in my lymph nodes I think I would have been happy with my choice of a partial. However, you won't know until final path report which is a week after your surgery. Tough call for sure! Where are you going for treatment?


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## Abcdefg

I dunno, I think the conservative approach is irresponsible. I'm the exact reason this is so. Because my doctors chose to do nothing, I now have a major recurrence that could have been avoided.

To minimize your overall risk, a TT is necessary. Not only that, but your med levels will be all over the place with replacements and natural hormones. And TG is innaccurate without RAI.


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## ETaylor1015

Sorry to hear what you are going through..I like you battled with myself as to what to do because my initial tumor was .8mm and I thought they were overtreating me. Well I broke down and had the total thyroidectomy done which I am glad I did. My tumor was also encapsulated but was in two local nodes. Come to find out they told me that papillary is in the nodes more than 60% of the time and this doesn't change your prognosis. I had surgery two months ago, 110 mci of RAI 3 weeks ago and I feel like more normal self now on synthroid 137. I am still building my endurance back when running but I think that is more because I haven't exercised in months. I was very worried before surgery I wouldn't feel like myself with no thyroid, but the good news is I feel great. Try to stay away from all the negative posts on the internet that you find on some sites, you are only hearing the worst case scenario from people and not from the norm of people that aren't spending time on the internet writing about how good they feel. Good luck you will be fine!


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## MaaDoo

@kidsabc. Surgery scheduled for April 18th. Im in Michigan and have gotten good feedback on my Dr whrn talking with others. She used a voice monitor during surgery to protect vocal cords. I'm currently scheduled for half but leaning towards the whole thing coming out. Aince i have nodules in the ledt also, im fearful I would need another operation down the road or if it turns out to be cancer. I've been watching Sloan Keteering on YouTube and it is very informative. I'm on segment 3 and hoping by time I'm done with them all I will have enough info to make my decision.


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## webster2

ETaylor1015 said:


> . Try to stay away from all the negative posts on the internet that you find on some sites, you are only hearing the worst case scenario from people and not from the norm of people that aren't spending time on the internet writing about how good they feel. Good luck you will be fine!


This is great advice!!! Best wishes to you!


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## kidsabc

Update: Well, it's been over three weeks since my partial and I'm feeling great. I don't feel hypo or moody at all. The scar is beautiful! You can barely see it already 

I get blood work in three more weeks to see if my remaining thyroid is keeping up with my needs. More for info than anything (in case I ever go off therapy for some reason), because they are planning on keeping me suppressed. I'm really nervous about all the terrible side effects of suppression and praying that it won't be that bad for me. If that lymph node hadn't been positive, I could just stay with 1/2 a thyroid and feel fine. Oh well!

Still feeling like a don't know the whole game plan for September. The doctor at MDA is hard to talk to directly. I think the plan is to have an ultrasound and blood work. If anything shows, than doing more surgery which would include a TT and central neck dissection. Rai possibly... I heard they are moving away from RAI... anyone else hear this?

ETaylor where do you get treatment? Your post was so true... I have come to the realization that most message boards are comprised of newbies that are scared and seeking info and persistence/recurrance cases that are also seeking info. I've told myself that I will stay longterm on the board and help others, but who knows? Maybe you get tired of cancer being in the forefront all the time? I appreciate all of you that remain on the boards leading others...

As I research more, it seems there is quite the debate about aggressive vs. less-is-more approach. Traditionally, the treatment for thyroid cancer has been the same for 40 years- TT with RAI. The last few years has seen a swing away from that and into a less-is-more approach. It seems MD ANderson, and SLoan Kettering are on the same page with this. I don't know if Mayo and John Hopkins is or not. But, because of this differing of opinion out there, we patients are often the ones that make the decision. ANd I don't know about you, but I just found out what a thyroid IS about two months ago...

Now that I'm too "over it" mentally- you just can't maintain that level of should I do this or that... what if this or that... worry worry worry.

I read through the biostatement of my Dr. Clayman at MDA again. Line by line, I took my time and really thought about his credentials.The man truly is a genius! Originally, I hand picked this man and then what do I do? Resist everything he was saying. I go to him because he's cutting edge, and then get angry when he isn't using the traditional approach.

At the end of the day, after allllllllll the research I've done, I will never truly know what is the best course of action. I've known people that had all the treatments done and still had recurrance and nasty side effects. I also know people that had minimal treatment and had recurrance and will wonder for the rest of their life if they would have had they done all the treatments. So I've come to the conclusion, that all I can do is find the best facility in the USA. Find the best doctor at that facility. Spend the money and time going to the best. ANd then TRUST. Trust God, trust the doctors, trust the medical advances...

I'm a business major, I will NEVER be able to sort all this out. I plan on staying educated and being an advocate for myself. But I am going to stop making myself crazy over my thyroid cancer. I wish I never got cancer, but I did. I wish it was a black and white treatment, but its not. I had a partial and I feel great. If something comes up (another lymph node, etc) then I will deal with it then... meanwhile? I've planned a three week vacation to visit family in another state. I want to be a good role model for my kids and teach them how to handle tough problems when (not if) they have to, and to use the cancer as a catalyst for good (I'll make bucket lists for the rest of my life now and give myself permission to do some crazy crap! I've started a photo journal blog to help others on the path., etc).

That's where I am now anyway  Thanks for walking this with me!!


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## Octavia

What a great post, kidsabc! I think you've arrived at a "good place" mentally.


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## iatrofears

i know this is very late, but kidsabc you are TRULY my inspiration!!


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