# Armour to lower Hashimotos Antibodies ???



## jmdkan (Jun 26, 2014)

Hi everyone,

I am new to this board but not new to Autoimmune Thyroid Disease. I am a 44 year old male now diagnosed with Hashimotos , About 11 years ago I had Graves disease and it was mild enough that I went the Holistic approach and was able to ride it out until remission without meds. Last summer I felt just a little bit off and I mean just a subtle change. I noticed a couple times during the week I would get tired mid morning . I never get tired in the morning so to the Doctor I went. Elevated TSH and Thyroid Antibodies of 312. During that time I was doing smoothies using macca powder and nutritional powder supplement in the smoothie. I told my Doctor I was going to stop all that and lets retest. Went back 1 month later and all was normal except he never rechecked the Antibodies.

So fast forward to a month ago I went to a Holistic Dr and my TSH is 2.95 and my Antibodies is 339. The only symptom I have is I can not lose weight despite how hard I work out or healthy I eat. I am not gaining weight I guess but imagine I would if I wasn't diligent about working out . I have just started a gluten free diet and taking lots of vitamins and minerals that will help inflammation,etc... I had read that Armour was sucessful in reducing Antibodies in people with no symptoms. My doctor wrote me a prescription for the lowest dose possible but I am a little nervous about taking it .

I welcome your thoughts and opinions

Not only is it rare for a man to get Graves I also have Hashimotos !

Thanks

Joe


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## bigfoot (May 13, 2011)

jmdkan said:


> Not only is it rare for a man to get Graves I also have Hashimotos !


Not as rare as you might think!  Welcome from another guy who is also dealing with Hashi's. There are actually quite a few of us floating around here.

It sounds like you are really on top of things, and that is awesome. I don't know much about Graves', so I'll defer to the experts. As far as Hashi's goes, I've never heard the statement that Armour (desiccated T4+T3 thyroid meds, similar to Nature-Throid and West-Throid) directly reduces antibodies. I think if anything, the Armour can be used to replace missing thyroid hormone and/or suppress a TSH. In a roundabout way this is theorized to reduce the antibody attacks.

I would think that before you start taking any sort of thyroid hormones, especially since you were a Graves' patient, you'd want to be very sure that it was the right approach. Hypothyroid and hyperthyroid symptoms can mimic each other, and a TSH test is not the best way to evaluate things. For example, if I am hyper thanks to being over-medicated, I can get exhausted, too. Ideally, they would run a TSH, Free T3, Free T4, TPO Antibodies, Thyroglobulin Antibodies, Thyroid Stimulating Immunoglobulin (aka TSI, *not* same as TSH), and Thyroid Receptor Antibodies (aka TRAb or TBII) on you. Also, a thyroid ultrasound thrown in for good measure to get a baseline.

Not only that, but when you do take thyroid hormones, the goal is to replace or suppress your own thyroid. If you only take a little bit of thyroid hormone, thanks to various feedback loops, your body will get lazy and not want to make its own thyroid hormone. Then you can wind up with a net loss and feeling worse than before you started. So you can't really just supplement what your body is making.

Another suggestion is to get checked out for things like adrenals/cortisol (24-hr urine or saliva collection, broken into different time periods is best), testosterone (can cause big time fatigue), low vitamins and minerals (Vit. D25, B12, Ferritin), sleep apnea (if you snore, thick neck, extra body weight, wake with headaches, etc.). Any one of these could cause you to be tired.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

Another male victim of Hashimoto's hell.

Give the medication a try. If it doesn't help you can always stop taking it.

You should feel lucky your only symptom is trouble with weight control.

Trust me ~ This disease can become much, much worse.

Good luck and welcome........


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## jmdkan (Jun 26, 2014)

Here are my test results to go with my original post :

TSH 2.95. Range 0.27 - 4.20
T4 free. 1.06. Range. 0.93 - 1.7
T3 free 2.8. Range 2.0 - 4.4
Reverse T3. 13 Range 8-24
Thyroid Peroxidase antibodies. 339 Range 0 - 34
Thyroid Antithyroglobulin antibody <1.0. Range. 0.0 - 0.9


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

Levothyroxine will lower antibodies in most patients too. There is no special reason to take Armour.

The presence of antibodies measures the potential for thyroid dysfunction--thyroid function is measured by TSH and T4/T3 testing. Your numbers are borderline.

Either way, thyroid replacement medications don't treat or eliminate the antibodies per se, they treat the resultant thyroid dysfunction, as measured by TSH and free T4 and T3 tests. The antibodies will wax and wane on their own. Generally, once their presence has been determined, it is not really necessary to measure them on a regular basis, as they don't influence treatment.

Vitamins, minerals and and supplements, as well as diets eliminating various food groups in the name of reducing inflammation also, in general, produce varying results. Gluten is very popular as the "bad guy" right now&#8230;YMWV.

The medication will suppress your remaining thyroid function, which is a consideration.

The only way to find out is to try it.


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## jmdkan (Jun 26, 2014)

Yes ....I forgot to mention that my Doctor said the optimal TSH for me should be 1.5 and I am at 2.95.

I think because I am going to a Holistic Doctor they recommended armour to try because it is natural . So if my goal is to lower my TSH then maybe it is worth a try . I can always stop it and I understand it may not decrease my antibodies at all . But I have started a gluten free diet and taking vitamins and minerals for inflammation and sugar metabolism as well as liver detox.


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

I think because I am going to a Holistic Doctor they recommended armour to try because it is natural

Natural is an adjective--in this case yes the source is another animal, so NDT thyroid products do come from a source found in nature. However, the ratio of T4/T3 in the synthesized version of pig thyroid is not the same as the human thyroid produces, so in the technical sense it is not bioequivalent, and not natural.

It is helpful to remember this, because patients on Armour do not produce "normal" TSH, T4/T3 results in blood work testing. There is a tendency for the TSH and T4 to become suppressed, due to the higher than normal amount of T3 in the product.


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## bigfoot (May 13, 2011)

jmdkan said:


> Yes ....I forgot to mention that my Doctor said the optimal TSH for me should be 1.5 and I am at 2.95.
> 
> I think because I am going to a Holistic Doctor they recommended armour to try because it is natural . So if my goal is to lower my TSH then maybe it is worth a try . I can always stop it and I understand it may not decrease my antibodies at all . But I have started a gluten free diet and taking vitamins and minerals for inflammation and sugar metabolism as well as liver detox.


That's probably not a bad goal to start with for a TSH, although some of us here are shooting for 1.0 or less. Just be aware that we are all different cases -- I think the numbers that work for Person A can be totally different than Person B. You may need additional adjustment either up or down, depending on how you feel and how labs look. Think of it as a narrow moving window you are trying to land in.

I also see an ND and was introduced to desiccated thyroid meds (Nature-Throid) through them. I noticed I had fewer reactions to it than some of the synthetic T4 and T3 meds. Still, as pointed out above, the downside is that it's not a perfect ratio for humans as it's around 25% T3, whereas I believe naturally our bodies are something putting out around 10% T3 (if I am remembering correctly). One plus of taking a desiccated product is you will be getting additional hormones that are missing from the synthetics, such as T1, T2, etc.

The GF craze is the latest buzzword, but you don't necessarily have to forego it if you test out negative for both Celiac and gluten sensitivity (not the same tests). FYI -- there is a theory that thyroid antibodies can have a reaction to gluten and can get stirred up. The jury is still out on a lot of this stuff, but hey, if it works out, then more power to you. One thing is for sure: there is a LOT we don't know.

Disclaimer; I am GF, tested positive for a bad gluten sensitivity, and have had good results in eliminating gluten.


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## jmdkan (Jun 26, 2014)

I am negative for Celiac disease but in the high normal range for gluten sensitivity . I have inflammation going on somewhere and need to reduce it so I have no problem trying to go gluten free. I guess it does not matter which thyroid med I try first but more important which one works best . My cholesterol is all messed up also and I believe it is been because of my thyroid . I need to see if I lower my TSH if my cholesterol turns around . If not then I can treat that separately


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## bigfoot (May 13, 2011)

Lowering inflammation is a key part of dealing with this stuff, kind of like the other half of the puzzle. The screwy cholesterol (especially high triglycerides) can absolutely have to do with thyroid. I'd give it some time before thinking about starting any cholesterol drugs, which bring their own issues to the table.

I probably mentioned it already, but keep in mind that going gluten free is an all-or-nothing approach. Gluten likes to stick around in the system for weeks, so there's no point cheating. If you have to eat at restaurants, you can help to avoid cross-contamination by popping a gluten digestive enzyme beforehand. I'll do this before eating anywhere that even claims to be GF. There are some folks who claim to have a bad reaction if their food is merely cooked in a pan that was used to make something with gluten! I guess it just depends on where you fall in the spectrum.

Watch out for stuff like soy sauce (there are now a few GF choices), salad dressings, malt vinegar, french fries at some places (McD's coats theirs), and so forth. Wheat, barley, and rye is friggin' hidden in darn near everything. Even the little things you would't think about. No connection to them, but if you have a Trader Joe's nearby, they have some good GF options. (Their quinoa & brown rice pasta is actually really good.)


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## jmdkan (Jun 26, 2014)

Yeah I am worried about eating out the most and trusting places. I have no symptoms that I know of when I eat gluten. I actually feel good after eating pasta ....weird ? But my gluten sensitivity was in the high normal range and negative for celiac disease. I am trying to find out which approach is best , Fix the thyroid and other things will normalize or fix the cause which they say is probably inflammation . I have been very involved in my care for 11 years and have no problem finding a new Doctor if they don't . I do believe that fixing the cause is always better than just treating symptoms. But I also understand there can be fine lines .


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## bigfoot (May 13, 2011)

Here's the rub: I'm not so sure you can "fix" it or "cure" it. I do however think that remission and suppression are possibilities, and maybe that's what you mean. But as long as you have the autoimmune disease, and you have the target it is trying to destroy, it will never be totally gone. I've had good days and I've had bad days. The trick is figuring out what combination gives you more good days.


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