# Dancing with meds for 6 years, no luck



## ThyroidMan (Dec 26, 2015)

Hey, havent been on these forums in quite some time. I usually peek around on FB groups but honestly there is no real experts around there, most the time my posts just get ignored.

Anyways. I did RAI had no issues with my eyes until I got onto T4, in which then they overdosed me starting me off on 125 mcg right off the bat with a TSH of 9 about a year after RAI. Literally almost killed me, and I had a ton of eye pain. From there I tried to use T4 only but that always resulted in good FT4, good TSH but FT3 was always below range. I don't remember the numbrs exactly its been almost 6 years really. T3 levels were always low and experienced a variety of hypo symptoms.

Anywyas I tried everything, T3 only too, I felt overall good here, but could only sleep 5 hours usually, lost all my hair on my legs, and had red eyes very often but no inflammation. Not sure about protusion at the time, but my guess is that I did, but i nvr noticed (cant tell from front view, only from side view and is very mild). I eventually found my way retrying to combine T3 and T4. Reintroducing the T4 grew my hair on my legs back, dry mouth went away, so this tells me, I need some T4. But thing is if I drop all the T3 I am combining with the T4, I get inflammation around my eyes. T3 has helped me with the inflammation.

Here are my latest labs. Sorry for rambling, just wanted to paint a picture of my situation.

Dose: T4-50, T3-37,

FT4- 0.62 (0.7-1.48)

FT3- 3.27 (1.5-4.2)

TSH- <0.004

Had red eyes a lot and only getting about 5 hrs of sleep. Honestly felt the best here overall. Wanted to stay but I knew with the hair on my legs still partially missing, how can this be the healthiest me? I had to explore more. Another thing I have issues with is with my sexual parts (I'm a guy) at this dose everything is in check for the most part.

From here We decided like idiots to just up the T4, because judging by my labs only the T4 looks like it is missing, yes, I miscalculated. It took a month before I started to get pain around my eyes, and I got a fever , eyes did swell up, eye lid retraction occured. I had a knee jerk reaction and brought the dose to 75 mcg of T4 and 10 mcg of T3, essentialy just cutting the T3 dose. Been here for about 3 weeks. Eye lid retention is slight, but I can close my eyes completely when I sleep. But I noticed my eyes protrude (from side view, hard to notice). Maybe I just realized this after 6 years with slight flare up, but its killing me inside, I think it has been there all this time and just now noticing it. On top of this lower T3 dosage everything related with my sexual male private part is worse. Sperm volume is much less and I dont get fully erect, but close. Yeah I have to measure.

Can someone please give me some advice. I been dancing around these medications for the last 6 years, and I'm not even 30 years old. This thing has completely ruined my 20's and I feel like I am losing all hope in life. Its affecting my job and I have zero social life because of my eyes mainly. Only positive thing is my high salary job. I just want to quit everything including life. Thanks to the Veteran Affairs for overdosing me on T4. They basically killed me in my early 20's.


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

I believe the main moderator on here can help you. It's hard to find a balance, but I believe you will likely have to find the right combination of T4 and T3.

Don't forget about having good nutrition and exercise. But I can understand that's hard to do when you are in bad shape.

I also suggest finding an endocrinologist experienced with combination therapy. I understand when the thyroid is not really there (RAI) combination therapy is usually needed. You may want to make that clear to them that you want the right combo. Usually dosing by FT4 and FT3 when doing combination. So your FT4 is obviously low, but how to adjust everything is tricky and that's where I think the moderator can be more help.

I wish you luck.


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

Also, I'm part of a good facebook group for men called: Men with Hashimoto's

I will warn you they are 90% alternative medicine, but the good news is they are all men who are going through a lot of the same situations. So it would be good as a support group standpoint. Or if you are willing to try some alternative things. They are not pushy though.


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## ThyroidMan (Dec 26, 2015)

Thank you! I will check out that group. Im in really good shape btw, I run 1-2 times a week and do a lot of power lifting. Yeah T4 was low, upped it to 75 mcg hair grew back, but about a month into it my eyes started to hurt a lot. I think the T4 increase was part of the equation. I could decrease the T3, but I already been there (twice) with T4 only, does not work so well for me. Probably gunna do 50 mcg and then increase the T3.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Hello ThyroidMan - welcome back.



> Dose: T4-50, T3-37,
> 
> FT4- 0.62 (0.7-1.48) *(( 1.09-1.285 ))*
> 
> ...


I edited the 1/2-3/4 of your ranges in bold beside your lab results above. Experience says to shoot for these ranges within the range when dialing in meds. The fact you got your doc to even prescribe T3 hormone is a win.

You can completely ignore TSH when testing both FT-4 and FT-3 and if in range or below range with suppressed TSH it's not an issue as far as boneloss goes. I for one have similar TSH results and am tested regularly with Dexa scans for bone loss and am pleased to state there is no increase with low TSH results.

I have to imagine you felt your best here because your FT-3 was approaching 3/4 of the range. Many people state they feel good when FT-3 labs are pushing 3/4 of range.



> From here We decided like idiots to just up the T4, because judging by my labs only the T4 looks like it is missing, yes, I miscalculated. It took a month before I started to get pain around my eyes, and I got a fever , eyes did swell up, eye lid retraction occured. I had a knee jerk reaction and brought the dose to 75 mcg of T4 and 10 mcg of T3, essentialy just cutting the T3 dose. Been here for about 3 weeks. Eye lid retention is slight, but I can close my eyes completely when I sleep.


Movement in thyroid hormones can cause TED to flair but theory is that TED is it's own disease. You have already experienced how medication adjustments can also impact it.

Your initial labs seem to be similar to someone on NDT. If you felt well there than maybe you should go back to that dosing?

When you are on a dose for awhile are you fairly stable in lab's? If not might be a good idea to have Vit D, B-12 and Ferritin levels checked. Since you are male Ferritin might not be as big an issue of being female.

Bouncing off Golo's idea of finding someone (an endo) to help dial in combination medication -> I would not waste your time with an endo - I've yet to find one who will even dose T3 hormone or test FT-3. A integrative/ naturopathic doc will be your best shot and since they are usually BIG on T3 hormone dosing they might could help you address other issues you have while taking a higher dose of T3 hormone. I'm lucky and found a DO (Osteopathic ) who doses both T4 and T3. I adjust my dosing myself as needed and pay for private labs if needed but so far for me that works for 10 years now.


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

yes...it may take some time to find a good doctor of any type. I wonder if your doctor would be wiling to do remote support Lovlkn?


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Haha. No money in that for them. Doubtful.


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## cujet (Feb 6, 2015)

56, male, former athlete, hashi's 25 years, poor T3 conversion. Things are not going well last 6 years, with severe exercise intolerance and crushing fatigue/6 naps per day feel poisoned when fatigued. So we are trying to troubleshoot the prob. I now take only syn T4 175mcg + testosterone. No other meds.

Like you, I do best on T4+T3. However, I am having fatigue issues. I discovered Prednisone 5mg relieves fatigue almost instantly.

Endo yells at me for taking Pred, despite my low cortisol labs.

However, as I have learned, cortisol or it's synthetic brother Prednisone, is akin to a transport mechanism for T3.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

Too much Prednisone for too long causes severe problems.

My Mother took it for terminal emphysema to help her breathe.

This lung disease is a slow drowning tourcher but prednisone helped ease the fuffering.

But it also messes with your other hormones and your head and face arms and legs swell up.

It can also cause vilolent episodes.

But in a terminal case the risks outway the benefit for the patient.

I would think the thyroid hormone would improve testosterone?

I'm a guy and I can tell you my sex dive shot into overdrive.

My genitals actually grew substantially within a few years using Armour thyroid.

I guess I was Hypo all my life and never knew it till I hit 50.......

I can grow a full beard now also....it's all grey though.....

Maybe you should try dropping the testosterone for awhile?

GOOD LUCK


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

cujet said:


> 56, male, former athlete, hashi's 25 years, poor T3 conversion. Things are not going well last 6 years, with severe exercise intolerance and crushing fatigue/6 naps per day feel poisoned when fatigued. So we are trying to troubleshoot the prob. I now take only syn T4 175mcg + testosterone. No other meds.
> 
> Like you, I do best on T4+T3. However, I am having fatigue issues. I discovered Prednisone 5mg relieves fatigue almost instantly.
> 
> ...


I think you may consider the Prednisone as a potential culprit.

From the web md site: Using corticosteroid medications for a long time can make it more difficult for your body to respond to physical stress.

and: Before using this medication, tell your doctor or pharmacist your medical history, especially of: current/past infections (such as fungal infections, tuberculosis, herpes), heart problems (such as heart failure, recent heart attack), high blood pressure, thyroid problems, kidney disease, liver disease, stomach/intestinal problems (such as ulcer, diverticulitis), bone loss (osteoporosis), mental/mood disorders (such as psychosis, anxiety, depression), eye diseases (such as cataracts, glaucoma), diabetes, mineral imbalance (such as low level of potassium/calcium in the blood), seizures, blood clots, bleeding problems.

Sometimes people try to fix their cortisol issues and end up causing a worse situation. Any time you mess with hormones it can be a recipe for problems. Of course we kind of have to with thyroid issues. But the other ones are tricky and can cause a lot of issues. I'd be more apt to take your thyroid medication and try to work on nutrition. But getting off of this kind of thing I don't have experience with. I'd work with a doctor to get off of it if you decide to do so.


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