# Increasing thyroid antibodies--New here!



## tinkerbell31 (Jun 10, 2010)

Hey everyone! I tried to post this once before, but I failed and lost it so here is the second try!  I want to give you a background regarding my health so you can have a clearer picture, so please bear with me. I am a 31 y.o. mom to three kids, and I my health has brought me through hives, angioedema, thyroid pain, high anxiety, increased PMS symptoms, extreme fatigue, lowered libido, and finally a Hashi's diagnosis and on levothyroxine.

I've dealt with anxiety and heart palpitations every since I was 15 years old. I've gone through periods in my life where I felt like I was absolutely wired with anxiety, and periods where I felt like I had no energy at all.

I'm going to list the symptoms and medical care instead of writing it all out again.

5 years ago--developed facial hives. Went to an allergist, who did skin test. Instant positive for dustmites, and 30 minutes later had multiple hives. Doctor dismissed the delayed reaction as nothing.

4 years ago--Just prior to moving, my son got sick. Strange lab work came back, that concerned the docs that he might have leukemia. It ended up being a virus or something, because he improved. At that same time, I began to have horrible pain in my throat. I had no idea what was going on, just know if felt like I was being stabbed in the throat and I even took vicodin for it, which I NEVER take. After a couple weeks it cleared up. The doctor said it was acute thyroiditis. My levels were fine at that time.

3 1/2 years ago--Things got very scary for me at this time. It began with a swelling on my temple. I didnt' have insurance, so couldn't go to the doctor for it. I had pain in my jaw with it, so figured it might be a tooth issue. A friend of a friend seen me (dentist) and said it was TMJ. Than it got worse. I began to have hives, and within a couple weeks, it developed into angioedema. Almost always confined to the face (one time I felt like it was throat). I went to ER's repeatedly, was told it was in infection once, and allergic reaction twice. Was prescribed antibotics for the infection, antihistimines and steroids for the allergic reactions. Nothing seems to work, and my anxiety was steadily growing. Sometimes it was so bad, I would have panic attacks for hours at a time. I felt like I was dying, burnt out and anxious, but so fatigued at the same time I was sleeping like 15 hours a day. I barely felt like I had the strength to lift my head up in the morning. My reactions happened mostly first thing in the morning. I thought it was allergies, and tried doing my own diary and food elimination. It seemed to work sometimes, but they would flare up again. I went to a free clinic where they ran a battery of bloodwork to see what was causing it. Nothing was elevated, not even my IgE levels. Tested positive for Coxsocki virus (sp) but he didn't think that was the cause. Dismissed it as allergies and prescribed another set of antihistimines (I'm tried them all)
I ended up moving out of the south because I couldn't get insurance there, and I needed medical care other than the ER. The swellings continued for over 6 months before I was able to get back to my hometown and get into an allergist.

2 1/2 years ago--Allergist ran another battery of tests including some the other doc didn't run, and a skin test. Once again I was positive for dustmites, but when my delayed reaction showed up, she counted them as well. I tested delayed positive for horses, rabbits, birds, tree, grasses, goats, pigs, hamsters, mushrooms, hazelnut, grapefruit. Tested positive under the skin for molds, dogs, and cats. My bloodwork came back, and it showed my TSH was normal but thyroid peroxidase was elevated about 18% above normal. My thyroglobulin was elevated as well. She recommended me to an endo, saying the hives could be caused by the thyroid levels. She also prescribed Singulair 25 mg a day, and hydroxyzine three times a day as needed. These seem to help the angioedema, though I do have breakthru occasionally. Moving did seem to help, but I think that may be because I had a dog in my old place, and no animals have ever lived in the current place. I went to the endo and when I seen him, he ran a battery of bloodwork as well...said all my levels were normal (TSH 2.2) except for the thyroid peroxidase, and that it doesn't cause hives or angioedema. He said I didn't need to be treated until my TSH was abnormal, and that I had Hashi's with the possibility my body would kill my thyroid off--he said about a 50/50 percent chance. He told me my own doc could follow me.


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## tinkerbell31 (Jun 10, 2010)

My own doc followed me since than. The levels did increase slowly, with the thyroid peroxidase being at 280 (normal <8.9), my TSH going to 2.7. I had increasingly worsening PMS symptoms. It was dismissed as aging problems. When my doctor moved, a new doc took over and he ran my levels again at my checkup. My TSH was 3.6, thyroid peroxidase 286. The doc told me that with the thyroid antibodies and symptoms, optimal TSH should be between .22 and 2.2. I started levo 50, and six weeks later, my TSH was down to 1.0 and I felt SO much better as far as PMS/fatigue went. The anxiety has always stuck around. 

I went to the doctor again a few months later, and they ran it again, TSH was at 1.7. Than again this month. I was having some increased PMS symtoms again, and I told him about it but told him I figured it was from stress or diet. He said it could be, but he would be more comfortable running the test again. I asked if he could run the peroxidase, because I heard those sometimes get lower. Imagine my surprise when it was MUCH higher,as was my TSH. TSH is now 3.26, and peroxidase is 586 (normal <8.9):sick0012:. So he upped my levo to 75.

My question is this: Has anyone experienced these type of symtoms? And so far ahead of when you actually had stuff start showing up in labs?

And is it normal for those levels to increase so much in such a short amount of time? I'm afraid that those hives are actually tied to the peroxidase and that I'm going to have a resurgance of them with the levels being so high. That really was a horrible time in my life and I don't want a repeat at all.....:sad0049:

So that's my story and questions. Thanks for reading all of this if you got through it, and thanks so much for this board where I can talk about this stuff with people who could understand.


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## lillyjackmom (Mar 13, 2010)

Hi. I'm pretty new so I'm not sure if I can be of much help. I'm sorry for your symptoms and what you are going through! I wanted to tell you that my antibodies were 1266 and all my other blood work was still "within the normal range". I also had extreme fatigue, 30 nodules, and hives along with other various symptoms even though my levels were always normal. Even with all of that I always had normal labs except for my TPO. I hope that helps a little.

Stacie


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

tinkerbell31,

Do you have any thyroid lab's you could post with ranges? Normal TSH has a huge range.


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## tinkerbell31 (Jun 10, 2010)

Okay...here are some(but not all) of the lab values.
First test upon arriving back to hometown.

Test name Level Reference Ranges

Thyroglob ab 79 [<=59]
Thro Perox ab 182 [<59]
TSH 1.42  [0.30-5.00]

Two months later
Thyroglob ab 55 [<=59]
Thro Perox ab 274.8 [<=8.9]
TSH 2.81 [0.30-5.00]

18 months later (at this time I was assigned 50 levo)
Thro Perox ab 282.7 [<=8.9]
TSH 3.35 [0.30-5.00]

I dont' have the exact levels of the tests six weeks after...they didn't test thyroid peroxidase again, but TSH was still with same reference ranges and was down to 1.0.

A test a few months later showed it at 1.5.

Than the test this past week showed:
TSH 3.26 [0.30-5.00]
thro perox ab (approx) 576 [<=8.9]

Hope that helps some more.


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## prettynikki5 (Dec 9, 2009)

tinkerbell31 said:


> My own doc followed me since than. The levels did increase slowly, with the thyroid peroxidase being at 280 (normal <8.9), my TSH going to 2.7. I had increasingly worsening PMS symptoms. It was dismissed as aging problems. When my doctor moved, a new doc took over and he ran my levels again at my checkup. My TSH was 3.6, thyroid peroxidase 286. The doc told me that with the thyroid antibodies and symptoms, optimal TSH should be between .22 and 2.2. I started levo 50, and six weeks later, my TSH was down to 1.0 and I felt SO much better as far as PMS/fatigue went. The anxiety has always stuck around.
> 
> I went to the doctor again a few months later, and they ran it again, TSH was at 1.7. Than again this month. I was having some increased PMS symtoms again, and I told him about it but told him I figured it was from stress or diet. He said it could be, but he would be more comfortable running the test again. I asked if he could run the peroxidase, because I heard those sometimes get lower. Imagine my surprise when it was MUCH higher,as was my TSH. TSH is now 3.26, and peroxidase is 586 (normal <8.9):sick0012:. So he upped my levo to 75.
> 
> ...


Hello and welcome to the board 

You sound like you are definitely having an autoimmune repsonse to your thyroid. Your story sounds alot like mine. I am 30 with children as well. I was diag Hashi's last year after finding high thyroid antibodies levels and long list of symptoms. I too, had hives on/off for the past so many years, and anxiety (always biting my nails etc..) I too, would go back and forth between being tired or anxious. My TSH, that I know of, has always been normal. I was put on Synthroid the beginning of this year and it really helped me feel better, the anxiety though, was something that never seemed to really get much better and my thyroid was very big and uncomfortable, I had surgery last week and had my thyroid totally removed. Surgeon said it was covered in scar tissue and looked horrible from being 'under attack' all this time. The anxiety has gone with it. So have the hives. I know it is still so early after my surgery, but I really feel that all those "symptoms" I was having was simply the antibodies hard at work in my body. Everything feels 'calmer' now. I am happy again. Back to focusing on my family 
Wanted to share my experience with you since they are very similar. This place is very supportive and informative. 
Best wishes!


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## tinkerbell31 (Jun 10, 2010)

Thanks for the responses 

This question is for anyone: What has your experience been with thyroid peroxidase antibodies and taking levothyroxine...did your levels continue to rise even while taking the medication? Does levothyroxine even DO anything for the antibody levels or is it strictly a TSH thing?


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## GD Women (Mar 5, 2007)

Levothyroxine has nothing to do with or influence antibodies. There is no cure for antibodies nor treatment. Antibodies are autoimmune and there is not treatment or cure for the immune system, therefore there is no cure or treatment for antibodies. Thyroid antibodies can wax and wan, come and go or even go into hiding, remission or lay dormant, and, can return years later.

People say they are gone but they are not, they are just in hiding.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

prettynikki5 said:


> Hello and welcome to the board
> 
> You sound like you are definitely having an autoimmune repsonse to your thyroid. Your story sounds alot like mine. I am 30 with children as well. I was diag Hashi's last year after finding high thyroid antibodies levels and long list of symptoms. I too, had hives on/off for the past so many years, and anxiety (always biting my nails etc..) I too, would go back and forth between being tired or anxious. My TSH, that I know of, has always been normal. I was put on Synthroid the beginning of this year and it really helped me feel better, the anxiety though, was something that never seemed to really get much better and my thyroid was very big and uncomfortable, I had surgery last week and had my thyroid totally removed. Surgeon said it was covered in scar tissue and looked horrible from being 'under attack' all this time. The anxiety has gone with it. So have the hives. I know it is still so early after my surgery, but I really feel that all those "symptoms" I was having was simply the antibodies hard at work in my body. Everything feels 'calmer' now. I am happy again. Back to focusing on my family
> Wanted to share my experience with you since they are very similar. This place is very supportive and informative.
> Best wishes!


Ditto- my story is very similar but I started out taking anti thyroid medications then had a TT then went onto Unithroid. My anxiety did not leave until my thyroid was removed.

The entire time I was on anti thyroid meds my TPO antibodies went up beginning at 476 to 790 two years later, 1860 four years after initial DX. When I finally had surgery my TSI was at 316% which is about where it was at initial DX and anti thyroid meds I had heard reduced antibodies but not so much in my case.

My surgeon said my thyroid was all beaten up and it was a good thing I had it removed as I was never going to "heal it".


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

tinkerbell31 said:


> My own doc followed me since than. The levels did increase slowly, with the thyroid peroxidase being at 280 (normal <8.9), my TSH going to 2.7. I had increasingly worsening PMS symptoms. It was dismissed as aging problems. When my doctor moved, a new doc took over and he ran my levels again at my checkup. My TSH was 3.6, thyroid peroxidase 286. The doc told me that with the thyroid antibodies and symptoms, optimal TSH should be between .22 and 2.2. I started levo 50, and six weeks later, my TSH was down to 1.0 and I felt SO much better as far as PMS/fatigue went. The anxiety has always stuck around.
> 
> I went to the doctor again a few months later, and they ran it again, TSH was at 1.7. Than again this month. I was having some increased PMS symtoms again, and I told him about it but told him I figured it was from stress or diet. He said it could be, but he would be more comfortable running the test again. I asked if he could run the peroxidase, because I heard those sometimes get lower. Imagine my surprise when it was MUCH higher,as was my TSH. TSH is now 3.26, and peroxidase is 586 (normal <8.9):sick0012:. So he upped my levo to 75.
> 
> ...


Hi Tinkerbell and welcome. Oh, yes. You see, your body is attacking it's self as evidenced by the presence of TPO (antimicrosomal antibodies) so therefore, it stands to reason that you also have a lot of allergies because the body is struggling to fight off the antibodies. Your immune system is whacked.

Many doctors are finding that by suppressing the TSH (1.0 or lower) the antibodies and autoantibodies go into seclusion and the patient feels ever so much better.

Also,never ever take any supplement to trigger the immune system for by doing so, you also trigger the "bad" antibodies and autoantibodies.


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## tinkerbell31 (Jun 10, 2010)

Andros said:


> Hi Tinkerbell and welcome. Oh, yes. You see, your body is attacking it's self as evidenced by the presence of TPO (antimicrosomal antibodies) so therefore, it stands to reason that you also have a lot of allergies because the body is struggling to fight off the antibodies. Your immune system is whacked.
> 
> Many doctors are finding that by suppressing the TSH (1.0 or lower) the antibodies and autoantibodies go into seclusion and the patient feels ever so much better.
> 
> Also,never ever take any supplement to trigger the immune system for by doing so, you also trigger the "bad" antibodies and autoantibodies.


Thanks for the welcome, and everyone's responses.

Andros, can you tell me what some of those supplements are that trigger the immune system? Are there certain dietary things too that will do the same??

I also tend to find my body gets wacked out with high stress. If I spend any significant amount of time crying or worked up (say at a funeral) I will usually end up with hives or angioedema the next morning....
I agree 100%....my immune system is wacked.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

tinkerbell31 said:


> Thanks for the welcome, and everyone's responses.
> 
> Andros, can you tell me what some of those supplements are that trigger the immune system? Are there certain dietary things too that will do the same??
> 
> ...


Echinecea is a big no no as is ginseng (except for white Amer. ginseng) which is no longer available anyway or at least last I checked. The list is long. I would say stay away from "anything" that is purported to boost or trigger the immune system. That is a good rule of thumb and do your research.

There are things that support the immune system rather than triggering it. Things like Bilberry, Omega III, Black Currant Oil (Omega VI), Selenium and much more.

It is a "play" on words; support, boost and trigger all mean something different. When in doubt, do not take it.

As far as I know, eating a well balanced diet of fresh foods only supports the immune system as does exercise and proper amount of sleep.


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## tinkerbell31 (Jun 10, 2010)

Sorry about all the questions....here is another one. 

What about Green Tea? I've heard mixed reports on it for Hashi's....just curious if this is something that would likely help--or hurt--my health.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

tinkerbell31 said:


> Sorry about all the questions....here is another one.
> 
> What about Green Tea? I've heard mixed reports on it for Hashi's....just curious if this is something that would likely help--or hurt--my health.


I understand that Green Tea is goitrogenic.

Goitrogenic effects of green tea extract catechins by dietary administration in rats

http://www.springerlink.com/content/8dataejbm3r5l49d/


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