# New test results and dosage change



## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

New test results interesting but predictable I believe.

TSH 2.874 range .350 to 5
T3 free 2.5 pg/ml range 1.7 to 3.7
Free t4 still not in yet
Lipids
Cholesterol 195 mg/dl range under 200
Hdl 45 mg/dl range greater than 39
Triglycerides 88 mg/dl range less than 100
LDL 132 mg/dl ranges less than 100
Vldl 18 mg/dl range less than 30
Chol hdl ratio 4.3
Vitamin d 48

Going up to 112 synthroid...on 107 equivalent now. Want my TSH between 1 and 2 first. I have improved quite a bit with my last dose change. But need maybe a bit more to get me over the hump.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

> 100 Synthroid daily Synthroid 50 once a week TSH TSH 2.874 range .350 to 5 | T3 free 2.5 pg/ml range 1.7 to 3.7
> 
> Current 112 Synthroid daily


 I'm curious to see your FT-4.

I think you will bring your FT-4 into high range with a 112mcg dose daily considering your prior lab's. 784 mcg weekly vs your current 650 mcg.

Make sure they test both FT-4 and FT-3 on your next lab.

Have you considered 100mcg for 7 days rather than 6 days?



> *Levo 100* (March 2018): TSH 1.02 (range .5-4.5)...*.FT4 1.65 (range .82 to 1.77*).





> Levo 100 (April 2018): Felt terrible TSH .68


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

I did mention they messed up on the FT4 situation...they put in TSH with FT4 reflex. The endo is sending me a note to get real FT4 done.

Those older tests were early when I wasn't feeling good on Levothyroxine.

Right before this increase I was on Synthroid 100 7 days a week and taking 50 once a week...equivalent of 107 a day. FT4 for that dosage was 1.06 Range 0.70 - 1.25 ng/d. I don't suspect it would have gone up or down too much with my latest test. My TSH went slightly up from 2.4 to 2.8 but the dose was the same.

So I believe it would be OK to up to 112. I'm going from 750 to 784.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

I'm wondering how you feel?

That's more important than any numbers or ranges.

Almost two years of trying to dial in with numbers is too long.

I take 2 grains of Armour thyroid or 120mg daily.

My labs to any doctor point to me taking way too much hormone.

But I have zero signs or symptoms of being hyper. If I lower my dose even a little I get hypo stomach inflammation of my gallbladder or pancreas which both were image & blood tested to be normal with no disease in either organ.

The new Physicians Assistant I have is trying everything to figure out why.

He thinks I have some other disease that's suppressing hyper symptoms.

I told him I'll do any test you want as long as I stay on this size dose and hormone type.

He did an EKG in his office that shows normal T waves with a heart beat of 70 & blood pressure 114 over 74

I feel great and don't plan on changing anything even if I have another disease.

This new P-A is just amazed that I'm not 70 pounds with a heartrate of 200 while shaking and sweating.

He told me he won't change something that works but finds me interesting and wants to know why I have no signs or symptoms with very hyper labs.....

EVERYONES DIFFERENT


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

I keep getting better the closer the TSH gets to 2. What I do find interesting is my FT3 has not changed almost at all over the past few years. Yet as I up my dose I start to feel better.

For now I'll keep going with stuff. I really need to work on lowering my stress. Since I've been feeling good I have not been meditating or doing other stress/anxiety lowering techniques. That's not a great idea and I need to get back on track again.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

What I'm trying to get at is the reason every person who unfortunatly gets thyroid disease always has problems getting dialed in to where you feel best in thyroid lab tests.

They use no demographics to get a "control" to reference from when testing with a thyroid panel.

It doesn't matter whether you are 4 foot tall or 8 , male or female, Caucasian or African American, 10 years old or 100.

The ranges are all the same no matter what.

It's the reason my tests show me very hyper with little to no signs or symptoms.

Everyone was created different and some much more than others.

Even if they used demographics there is one rule I've learned in my 58 years is there are always exceptions to any rule.

jamie~


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

Had a few days recently of feeling pretty bad. Very fatigued in the afternoon. But last few days I've been OK.

Of course it's only been 2 weeks on the recent dose change.

Seems like the body adjusts a bit when you change doses, and that takes awhile.

Going to try and stick with it for now.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

Synthetics never did anything for me but make me worse.

When I changed to Armour thyroid "desiccated thyroid" is when I quickly started feeling better.

It took less than a few weeks to feel the difference.

And only about six months to feel close to normal.

All the waiting for Levothyroxine to do anything just added to some of the permanent damage thyroid disease has done to me. The rest was caused by stubbornness and lack of health insurance.

It shouldn't take years to feel better and the more you wait the more of a chance of permanent damage.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

creepingdeath said:


> I'm wondering how you feel?
> 
> That's more important than any numbers or ranges.
> 
> ...


I'm curious - what are your lab's?


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

If your asking me I just had an ultrasound and labs.

The ultrasound just shows my thyroid is continuing to shrink from atrophy from Hashi's.

No nodules or tumors....

Of course you know I was only given TSH & total T4 tests by this new PA I am seeing.

He's guessing by the magical "Thyroid Stimulating Hormone" that I'm extremely Hyperthyroid.

Thyroxine was 8.8 ~ {6.0 ~ 12.5}

TSH <0.01 ~ {0.35 ~ 5,50}

He also ordered B12 which is within range.

Folate is above range. You can't get enough of this....

Lipase & Amylase are normal....

ANA is negative this time. It's been low positive and speckled a few times.

I see him this Friday so maybe it's time for me to learn him something?

If he try's to change anything or orders anymore studies I will refuse.

If he has a problem with that then it's off with doctor shopping again.

I've had every test you can think of and they are all normal except TSH & thyroid antibody tests.

IF he would have ordered the "frees" they would have been within range...just like the last labs I had a few months ago.

Free t4 was a little lower than half of the range & fT3 was a little above half of the range.

This was b4 raising my dose to 120mg from 105mg.

I have had not one stomach ache since the increase & I feel better than ever.

I'm not messing with anything that works no matter what labs are.

It took me too long to fight to get to where I am now.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS TO ALL & GOD BLESS THE CONSTITUTION


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Ahhh- your PA is basing his opinion on your TSH only. Too bad as we all know it's the "free's" that really matter.

I for one have had these TSH readings the last few labs .0118, .006, .018, .004, .008.

I'm lucky because my doc looks at my Free's which are well within range.

BTW- no bone loss here due to low TSH - if anything, my osteopenia has stopped progressing - most likely because I am religious on taking my Vit D, Calcium and Mangnesium. The low TSH fear is not true if you supplement and have decent Free's.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

Yeah, but atleast he was trained by my original doctor who retired along with the nurse practitioner.

They were both in their 70's.....

This P-A is the only one left originally from this practice I go to.

He's got a lot of experience but I can tell "not with thyroid".....

I'll try and see if he's up to his patients participating in their treatment like his mentors did.

If he learned anything from them, it's to listen to your patients carefully and that "everyone's different"

I'll let ya know what happens


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

> Thyroxine was 8.8 ~ {6.0 ~ 12.5}


I forgot to ask - Does your Thuroxine ever run in line with your Free T-4?

Mine never ever does. My doc runs it at every lab.

I dread the day my doc retires - since 2009 he has been refilling the prescriptions I came to him on. I do the micro dose adjustments and self lab at times. Getting my current dose dialed in took 2 GP's ( seen at the same time) , 2 Endo's and I found my current and quit the rest.

I wish you the best of luck training/educating your PA.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

To tell you the truth.......

I could care less about labs, ranges & tests........

I barely glance at them because they're always different......

I'm tired of being jabbed with needles all the time so doctors can see that my results don't correlate with my symptoms.....or lack there of.....

Just give me the prescription & I'll be on my way.....

I'm no ones lab rat...&#8230;.

When and if I start feeling hypo again or go hyper I'll let the doctors know....

I've had this disease long enough to know what it feels like to be hyper & hypo.....

I take an old type thyroid hormone so treat me the old fashioned way please....by clinical symptoms.......

The common thyroid panel was created along with & for synthetic hormone.....

This Physicians Assistant says he's concerned about my future.

Not too sure what he means?

Maybe he's concerned about bone lose? I'm a Guy , I don't think there is a problem with this in men?

Maybe he's concerned about damage to my pituitary gland from suppressed TSH?

I'm pushing 60 and I'd trade a few years of feeling great for too many years battling a disease that modern medicine doesn't fully understand.

I was told by my Grandfather once that if something works "don't f**k with it"......

Quite intelligent words from a man who never went to high school and ran a delicatesent.....

He also became Mayor of the town he lived in......


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

At my appointment today my new Physicians Assistant *ASKED *me if I'd be willing to go to an autoimmune specialist because he's baffled with me &#8230;..

I had another ANA test which was positive and high this time round........

I don't think there is a doctor that specializes in every autoimmune disease?

But most of all I have no symptoms of any other autoimmune disease to show a specialist &#8230;..

So what's the point? I'm not going out of my way spending gas money & wasting time I don't have because he's more interested in my Labs than I am......

I actually like the guy and didn't want to show him up on how much I know about my own disease too soon .

It's only my 2nd appointment with him but I can tell he don't know thyroid.......

I asked him what he was concerned about with my labs being off and he said nothing. That he thinks there's something else going on with my immune system......

I told him I'd think about it......but I'm for now......&#8230;...... Not changing what works....

I'll be lurking the forum from time to time.........

jamie~


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

Is ANA a test for Lupus?

It's not uncommon to have many autoimmune diseases.


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

I'm not sure I'd really worry about it. Especially if you don't have any symptoms related to Lupus or any other ones related to the ANA test. Looks like there are quite a few potential other AI diseases related to the test. Could be worth examining if you are having any other issues.

Otherwise, keep it in mind in the future if anything develops.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

ANA tests I've had a dozen times over the last 10 years.

Some results were negative, some low positive & speckled.

Some were high positive & homogeneous...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;"like this one"

The reason for these results are because I have Hashimoto's or Chronic Lymphocytic Thyroiditis & Vitiligo....

Both are autoimmune.....

If I start getting symptoms of any kind I'll investigate....


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

Feeling better lately and I'm close to being able to test with the new 112 dosage.

It's been six weeks. I do find it's necessary to wait 6 weeks personally.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

Have you ever felt like you used to before Hash's now that you are on T4?

I remember being on Synthroid and 112 mcg was my dose too.

It was the worst of all the brands, and I tried them all.

I got red marks on my legs like I was on blood thinners, sores in my mouth along with acne on my chest.

I felt 20 times worse than taking nothing at all.

Desiccated works for me but I doubt I'll ever feel completely thyroid symptom free.

I still have a shrunken scrambled hamburger type thyroid that I'm sure still spits out some hormone ever once and a while. I still get minor thyroid symptoms from time to time.

I'm a guy and still have little hair on my legs and hair still seems to be slowly diminishing.

I had my circulation checked and I have no problems as I've always been a hiker.

I do have slight nerve damage from long term untreated hypothyroidism.

It could just be age 58 or from lack of thyroid hormone for too long and the hairs are just not coming back.

It's not just thin most of my legs are smooth and I have to shave them to make them look even when wearing shorts.

Of corse every woman I tell say they wish they were me.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

I'm fairly hairless as well. Not sure if it's a thyroid thing or not. I have zero armpit hair and very little leg hair.


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## creepingdeath (Apr 6, 2014)

OK so I'm not the only one but I think it's very different for men than women.

I guess it depends on whether you used to have hair in those areas.

But women usually shave those areas anyway so you get to save money on shaving supplies.

I have hair everywhere else a guy is supposed to have except male pattern baldness which is a thing in my Family.

Back in 2004 & 2005 I had very hairy legs. A lot more than my brothers.

I noticed the hair getting thinner around 2006 and figured it was from getting older.

Till one day after showering I looked down and most of the hair was gone on my lower legs.

It's been getting thinner ever since till now most of the hair is gone up to my privet area.

It could be alopecia since I have two confirmed autoimmune diseases but I would think it wouldn't be confined to just my legs.

If it didn't take so long to get an appointment with a dermatologist I'd have it checked out.

It doesn't really bother me much since I rarely wear shorts because my tan is gone entirely on my legs from vitiligo.

I also live in Pennsylvania where it's quite cold for half the year except today for some reason it's in the upper 60's.

We should have snow on the ground in January.

Global warming...&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;...


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

I still have all my hair somehow. Though my father who also is on Levo and many other things doesn't have leg hair and has not for awhile.

I think I would have to qualify how I feel now compared to before. 3 years before being diagnosed I had noticed I wasn't feeling like I used to. Lower energy, poor stools, colder than most folks, etc. Then in the few months before diagnosis I was in pretty rough shape. All kinds of weird things and anxiety.

Then after going on Levo I was a bit strange. Strange symptoms and eventually hyper symptoms. However, I believe my body wasn't ready for the medicine. I believe I had Iron issues and I was deficient in vitamin D. Iron issues, B12 issues, etc can cause your body to not handle the hormones correctly. I highly suggest getting your Iron levels checked...especially if losing hair.

After switching to Synthroid some things are better and some are equal to Levo. I feel like Synthroid feels "cleaner"...and my anxiety is much less. However, I still don't think it's completely working for me. It seems like some parts of my body are happy and other parts are not. My guess is my T3 is a bit low and some parts of my body want more.

All that being said I am probably feeling my best right now with the least symptoms. But then I'll go into a phase of feeling bad again for a day or town (like my levels decreased)...and then I'll feel OK again.

I do finally have some good stools. I'm not sure if that was from the diet change or from having better levels of thyroid. I know you guys didn't change your diet. But I would encourage eating a bit cleaner if possible. And less sugary foods. A lower amount of processed foods and more whole foods.

I'm still gluten, dairy, soy free. I don't know if it's completely necessary. I can say my antibody levels decrease dramatically right away. Whether that means anything or not, who knows. My latest reading was 117 whereas I was at 1980ish when diagnosed. I've read the large decrease is abnormal, but then again there are probably not a ton of studies on it.

I will say the diet thing does suck a bit and I probably wouldn't suggest it unless you are struggling. that's why I suggest just eating less processed foods. Maybe having them more as treats.

Exercise is extremely important. Even if it's walking 30 minutes a day.

Getting proper sleep also important.

What I worry about is not having enough T3. But still have not started on it because I don't trust my Endo for dosing. Everytime I ask her about T3 she ignores me...like I'll send her a study that talks to the importance of T3 and I get ignored. So I don't think she's too interested in it. This is my 5th doctor and I don't really feel like switching again.

All of that being said, the increasing dose of T4 is helping and maybe I'll stablize at some point. I've lost quite a few symptoms and I'd say I have the fewest right now.

I'm going to test again in a few days so it will be interesting to see where I am. I know I make Lovlkn crazy by not taking the T3...but it's just hard to find the right people to help with this in my area. One area I am worried about is my heart. Despite exercise and eating clean, I'm still not convinced my heart is in good shape. I did get it checked out quite a bit and everyone says it's OK.

My cholesterol is up a little which some people say is fine others not. I see it as a sign I probably don't have enough T3 getting into my cells.

It's such a strange issue and I really don't know who to trust on it. I don't trust conventional doctors and I don't trust functional doctors.

I did find a pretty good website that seems somewhat in-between: https://thyroidpatients.ca/


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## GOLGO13 (Jun 13, 2018)

Something to check out. I was reading up today on poor circulation...as my hands have been a bit red recently. Sometimes one hand and not the other. Probably not a great thing.

Anyways, it talked to this being a cause for losing leg hair and such. Probably a common thing for us having an underlying disease. And since you have a few autoimmune diseases, I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't related.

So consider doing things that improve circulation. Exercise is listed as one thing. Yoga is another way. Warm baths supposedly. Keeping blood pressure lower...

It's a thought at least. I'm not sure what was going on with me. This morning in the shower, my left hand was reddish and my right was normal. Thyroid disease really blows sometimes.

They also mentioned eating more plants and less fattening meats. This is sometime I've been trying to do, but I really have a hard time getting vegetable meals going. Annoying. Not a huge fan of salads, but I'll have to just have them sometimes I guess. Need to make more vegetable stews and soups I guess. And kale smoothies.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Maybe once you get your FT-3 in line with your FT-4 more of your symptoms will resolve??



> My cholesterol is up a little which some people say is fine others not. I see it as a sign I probably don't have enough T3 getting into my cells.


I have found that my Cholesterol levels increase when my labs are not optimal - meaning they go hypo. I have labs to prove it.


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