# On NDT, bloods not good, anyone add thyroxine? Help :-(



## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

I went back to whole thyroid (powder capsules) after trying T3 only, then T4 + t3. At my best I was feeling I was on 120mg (2caps etc) whole thyroid and 50mg thyroxine. So I went back to whole thyroid but 180mg this time (3 caps) but strangely my bloods look worse as per below. Ive tried everything under the sun to get my ft3 above 50% but nothing seems to work. The price of whole thyroid here is insane and anything over 180MG gets doubled in price. My long term goal is to get back to Synthetic thyroxine and improve conversion.

One of the problems Im working on is Ive realised acid suppressants, and back pain meds have my digestion severely impaired, along with taking 6 meds that the liver needs to digest. Im thinking my conversion of t4-t3 is terrible and it also gives me high RT3. So Im trying to work on digestion and get off as many medications as I can, only take pain meds when critical.

180MG Whole Thyroid (Desiccated thyroid powder capsules)

*Free T4: *8.8 pmol/L 10.0 - 20.0 

*Free T3: *4.4 pmol/L 3.0 - 6.5

*TSH: *6.8 mIU/L 0.30 - 4.00


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Safe to assume you are compounding?



> One of the problems Im working on is Ive realised acid suppressants, and back pain meds have my digestion severely impaired, along with taking 6 meds that the liver needs to digest.


Good digestion is definitely important to getting in "the zone" of optimal thyroid levels. Do you take any probiotics?

Liver function is key for thyroid replacement - how are your liver enzymes?


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

Yes compounding. I think they also import, naturethroid....

I just asked, the highest they go to is 210mg, it could be worth a try for this extra 30mg? I also have 50Mcg thyroxine synth and 15mcg T3 synth capsules (compounded). So I could add either of those too as well.

I did a natural antibiotic oil cleanse of the gut (forget the oil name), then I did quality probiotics for a month, about a year ago. Clearly not long enough. Also my hair sample said I was low in selenium, so I want to add this.

Ive been on Losec PPI for 15 years, so no surprise my guy and immune system went hay wire, basically anti inflammotories for my back caused GERD/Reflux, so they stuck me on these and never took me off, as we no today the FDA in the states says 14 days use. Grrrrr. So my goal is finding my triggers and getting off this pill. So far Ive found coffee, fats, alcohol in that order to be the worst. So I plan to take enzymes for the fats.

Add to all this ive been on codeine for 5 years for back pain. So ultra low acid levels and constipation from codeine = likely very compromised digestion and flora.

My Liver tests say its ok. But I read just because it says its ok doesnt mean its ok for thyroid conversion. So my goal is to get off all meds and no alcohol. Ive got a quality liver detox as well, ready and waiting.

on top of that I have major levels of inflammation all through my body, so the cellular conversion levels probably suck as well.

So what I really want is the best method for staying out of hypo while I work on all the above. I tried T3 only and I just couldnt comply due to its very needy nature, its not easy.

Im also restricted by income as Ive had to resort to welfare after 7 years off work, grrrrrr.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Your situation has an incredible amount of variables. I'm being honest when I state - I have had no similar experiences to share.

Thyroid hormone is converted in the liver - if liver function is optimal than thyroid hormone conversion should be optimal.

Whatever changes you make - keep good notes and re-lab in 6 weeks.


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

Well 20% in digestion (where its converted by good gut flora) and 60% in liver, 5% directly from thyroid as T3 and the rest in the cells of the body, which is why systemic inflammation is so bad.

The key factors are

Systemic inflammation

Gut digestion health

Liver processing ability

Its very hard to not take any pain meds and its hard to resolve reflux without using PPIs, but if I dont I will never have good gut digestion. Along with taking multiple meds, taxes the liver and creates RT3.

Im just not sure if another 30MG of Whole thyroid will turn those results around, and if not if I should add synthetic T4 or T3 to help get my FT3 up?


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

So I jumped to 210mg whole thyroid and got a big change, but I dont FEEL any better.

*Free T4: *12.4 pmol/L 10.0 - 20.0 

*Free T3: *5.9 pmol/L 3.0 - 6.5

*TSH: *2.1 mIU/L 0.30 - 4.00

As can be seen my FT3 is optimal now. My TSH is possibly a little high? Im wondering if I still have high RT3, but its not a test in my country and costs $300 to get sent overseas.

Ive been on Codeine for 6 years, Im wondering if that could have an impact, along with Valium, Venlafaxine and Losec.

Im bed bound so I get no exercise, could that have an impact?


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

> So I jumped to 210mg whole thyroid and got a big change, but I dont FEEL any better.
> 
> *Free T4: *12.4 pmol/L 10.0 - 20.0
> 
> ...


Yes, FT-3 is looking more in optimal range. How long have you been at these levels? It will take quite awhile for your RT3 to burn off and you will need to remain at these levels for that to begin happening. It could take months.



> Ive been on Losec PPI for 15 years


This is likely a huge part of your issue causing RT3 but mot likely the only reason.

Since you tested low on selenium adding it sounds wise.



>


https://www.restartmed.com/reverse-t3/

The link above is where I got the chart - they are selling quite a few items that I do not promote nor support - I just want to give the credit for the chart I posted above. There is actually alot of useful information on it as well.


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

Lovlkn said:


> Yes, FT-3 is looking more in optimal range. How long have you been at these levels? It will take quite awhile for your RT3 to burn off and you will need to remain at these levels for that to begin happening. It could take months.
> 
> This is likely a huge part of your issue causing RT3 but mot likely the only reason.
> 
> ...


I take Losec, but also Valium, and Venlaxafine (anti dep) daily.

But due to have spinal degeneration Ive been on Codeine (opiates) for years. Along with Losec, do you think Opiates can have an impact on conversion and increase in RT3?


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Google it.

I just did and tons of stuff comes up from US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health


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## BatMan (Oct 2, 2013)

Im going to try getting off all meds outside thyroid meds.Do some light exercise. I eat a very clean good diet already luckily.

Also I plan to drop my NDT from 210MG to 120MG but increase the T3. This will help reduce the RT3 in my system by reducing available T4. Im not sure how much to increase the T3 too. Ill have to google this as its not something anybody in my country considers an issue. They dont even test RT3 here, it has to be sent to Aus.

I presume it will be a bit like T3 only in that looking at my vitals will give me a clue to how its doing.


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