# When do you stop blaming Hashi's?



## Desertrose (Jul 30, 2013)

Well, I posted a while back mentioning how my Dr took me off HRT after the discovery of Hashimoto's, and that sudden stoppage brought on night sweats, mini hot flushes, sleeplessness and palpitations during the night.
It's been six weeks since I stopped the HRT, and still no period. To be expected I guess.
The night sweats/hot flushes thing seems to be gone and I'm no longer waking up with palpitations, but have had the occasional bout even during the day.
My energy levels are SO much better since starting on the thyroid meds and for a little while I actually thought I was losing a tiny bit of weight, but that has stopped now despite this ridiculous super healthy gluten free diet.
The main thing at the moment which is really getting to me is that I just can't SLEEP! 
At night I am just WIRED. Have I ever slept well? Not really.
Even when I was exhausted and in the throes of being hypo I had trouble falling asleep at night. Oh I would sleep during the day - no trouble napping, but at night, I don't know what it is - my mind is just like a washing machine on spin cycle and my body is on high alert.
About all I can think is that it must have something to do with cortisol levels. Either that or it's just ME, nothing to do at all with Hashimoto's and maybe I'm just doomed to a life of spending three to five hours trying to fall asleep.
Frustrating!
I don't want to take sleeping pills. I KNOW I would get hooked.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

Have you tried anything OTC for the symptoms you are having?

I've been using Progest or most recently Emerita phytoestrogen cream. I buy it where I get my vitamins. It takes care of the hot flashes and I think helps with mood swings. I have not slept in years ( since my son was born 20 years ago) - I have some luck with L-Triptophan or Calm's.

What's even stranger is I went from a natural progesterone cream to a natural estrogen cream and they both addressed the same symptoms.

I refused hormone replacement due to not wanting to take estrogen and these OTC's really work - for me


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## Desertrose (Jul 30, 2013)

Hi, thanks for the suggestions.
Before I was diagnosed I was convinced I had female hormone problems. I was skipping periods, then bleeding for a month straight. Ended up with having endometrial hyperplasia, and THAT is caused from too much oestrogen. (or - not enough progesterone) Funny thing was every single hormone test showed up "normal". It was maddeningly frustrating. I just KNEW something was out of whack.
I ended up putting myself on progesterone cream and that DID help with making my cycle more regular.
I'm just not sure what to do right now because recently I read that it can be dangerous to mess around with progesterone creams when you have Hashi's - all these hormones are so complicatedly linked. 
I want to get my hormone levels tested again, but no doubt it will come back saying "normal" again.
I have tried L Tryptophan in the past....tried chamomile tea, hot milk and honey...tried excercising more... cutting back on my cups of tea...
Reading makes my eyes tired, so sometimes that works but more often than not I'm only falling asleep at around 3 am. 
I know it's nothing compared to some of the things people are going through, but it's driving me mad. I'm tired...why can't my body just sleep!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

Desertrose said:


> Well, I posted a while back mentioning how my Dr took me off HRT after the discovery of Hashimoto's, and that sudden stoppage brought on night sweats, mini hot flushes, sleeplessness and palpitations during the night.
> It's been six weeks since I stopped the HRT, and still no period. To be expected I guess.
> The night sweats/hot flushes thing seems to be gone and I'm no longer waking up with palpitations, but have had the occasional bout even during the day.
> My energy levels are SO much better since starting on the thyroid meds and for a little while I actually thought I was losing a tiny bit of weight, but that has stopped now despite this ridiculous super healthy gluten free diet.
> ...


How about walking every day? Many claim that the exercise is the ticket.


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## Danniswirl (Feb 23, 2013)

Please tell me why progesterone cream is dangerous for those with hashimotos? My Nautrapath prescribed it for me to help with m adrenals an for estrogen dominance.


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## sjmjuly (Mar 23, 2012)

I have never heard that Progestrone cream is bad for hashi's. I take a compounded mixture (progesterone/testosterone) under my tongue every night. I would have been a mess without it.
The only thing I have heard is that "cream" can actually build up in the fatty tissues and become less effective.


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## Desertrose (Jul 30, 2013)

This is one of the things I saw regarding progesterone and Hashimoto's.






Logically though, I'm thinking that perhaps what he means is that unless tests have shown that you definitely are in need of progesterone, perhaps you shouldn't use it? - and in MY case, with the tests always showing up "normal", well....this is why I'm reluctant to use it again without first getting my levels tested.


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## CA-Lynn (Apr 29, 2010)

I was on HRT for about 20 years and had to go off when I had a pulmonary embolism. Night sweats started but the worst was over in about a month.

I swear by the exercise suggestion that Andros made.


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## StormFinch (Nov 16, 2012)

You might give melatonin a try. I didn't have much luck with it pre-surgery, but picked some up recently because it's supposed to help with bone loss and found that it definitely works for putting me to sleep now! 

I was a hopeless insomniac for years and years, figured I'd be that way the rest of my life. I even looked into something called delayed sleep disorder. If I could fall asleep before about 2 am I would sleep 3 hours at the most and be up the rest of the night. If I went to bed after 2 I would sleep a full 8 hours. Now, 10 months after surgery, I believe my schedule might actually be starting to right itself. Here within the last few weeks I've started getting up around 9 am. The only problem is, it happens no matter what time I go to bed.  The melatonin is helping though, when I can remember to take it at the proper time.

Light therapy might be another avenue to pursue as well. I know light boxes are expensive, but try sitting next to a window that gets full sun/light in the morning, either at the time you want to be awake or you can back up your morning schedule by 30 minutes each week until you reach the right time if you're currently sleeping late.


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## Desertrose (Jul 30, 2013)

I do walk, almost every day, but for the most part, yeah, I probably could do with more excercise.

Stormfinch, funny you should say about the waking at 9 thing. Seems to be my current magic time for waking, despite most nights only falling asleep after 3 am.
I have started sleeping with the curtains open so I get the light in - I think it's that which is causing me to wake. 
I hate it though because I have a real aversion to sunlight. Could be part of my problem! I wear sunnies all the time because the light hurts my eyes and I really cringe in the sunlight. 
I feel like the witch in the Wizard of Oz. "Help.....I'm meeeelting!"


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## sjmjuly (Mar 23, 2012)

Doctors say your room should be dark, dark, dark, cool and quiet in order to sleep. I sleep like a rock and it's especially hard for me to wake in the morning when fall arrives. Since it's stays darker longer in the morning, I don't want to get my lazy butt outta bed.


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## StormFinch (Nov 16, 2012)

Ah! Vampire!  That's what my son accuses me of being anyway.

Seriously though, give the melatonin a try. Valerian root and magnesium are also possible options.


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## CA-Lynn (Apr 29, 2010)

Bear in mind that if you ever need surgery, it may be delayed until these things [I.e., valerian root] are out of your system.


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## Desertrose (Jul 30, 2013)

Ok. Taking note of that. Thanks.
Had a half decent night last night so who knows, maybe this cycle will break at some point.


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## surge (Aug 15, 2012)

I understand your hesitation to take sleeping pills, but I would say: don't rule it out completely. At my worst hormonal fluctuation, I needed Ambien to break the bad sleep cycle I was in. I used it as bridge therapy to get me to a place where more natural support supplements and/or behaviors could take over.

Here was my plan: I took an ambien a night for about three weeks, and then I started taking halves for about a week, and then I only took an ambien as needed.

Here's why I jumped into the ambien full force initially: I was in a bad state-- I'd go three nights in a row with snatches, 20-30 minute stretches of sleep here and there. Then I'd maybe get 4 hours one night and the sleeplessness would start up again. So I had to get myself out of a bad cycle, that's why I started with taking ambien consistently. Once I got my body back used to sleeping, I found I only need an occasional one and I haven't had any ambien in months. Trying to fight for sleep when you're underslept and running on adrenaline is a particular challenge and more people are more likely to need some kind of aide/intervention to get them out of the negative sleep pattern.

One more thought: Sleep science really believes in the 'window'-- your best window to fall asleep naturally and deeply is actually EARLIER than most people think. It's boring, but you might need to try an early bed time for several nights consistently.


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## alphatyp (Aug 9, 2013)

My Alternative Medicine Dr told me to buy Sleepy Time tea at Whole Foods or I guess any other health store and he has me taking 2-4 Magnesium w/SRT pills a few hours before bed. Surprisingly they super relax me and help me get to sleep!


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## Desertrose (Jul 30, 2013)

Surge, for years and years I drank alcohol to fall asleep. I didn't drink a lot, maybe two or three glasses but it became SUCH a habit that I began to worry - especially when finally the doctors found that I had an extremely fatty liver and triglycerides that were through the roof. I immediately stopped drinking, changed my whole diet and within six months I had reversed the whole situation.
So for two reasons I am hesitant - one because I think I have a bit of an addictive personality, and two because I'm extremely cautious now when it comes to medications and supplements even, which might cause damage to my liver. 
I really suspect that there is something going on with my digestive system - including my liver- which of course is part of all that, that is related to Hashimoto's - somehow.
Nobody in my family has any problems with their livers or triglycerides and they all drink like damn fish.
I can understand why you did resort to sleeping tablets though. I can't say I'm anywhere near as bad as that. It's mainly just the getting to sleep which takes hours sometimes.
I really shouldn't overstimulate myself by sitting here on my laptop - as I am now at 10.30 at night!


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## Velcro (Jul 26, 2013)

I went through bouts of insomnia a couple of years ago and I didn't want to take sleeping pills. My PCP told me something that helped tremendously. He's all into that healthy lifestyle stuff 

He said that you have to "train" your body to sleep. To do that, it requires a nightly routine that you stick to, and if you do, your body will get in a rhythm. For example, he suggested that I do a "get ready for sleep" regime for two weeks to see if it helped. It had to start 2 hours before I wanted to actually go to sleep. No television, no computer and keep it consistent. So I wanted to be in bed by 11, so at 9, I would sit in a hot bath for 30 minutes. Then I spent the next 30 minutes getting out my clothes for the next morning, jewelry, setting all my electronics out for work, painting my toenails, plucking eyebrows....etc. Whatever I could do that was 30 minutes worth of easy, relaxing things. Then I would make a cup of decaf sleepy tea and read a book for an hour and turn off the lights at 11.

The first week, I would lay there and toss and turn for hours. Into the second week, I noticed I wasn't staying awake as long and falling asleep within the hour. By the end of the second week, I was asleep within 30 minutes and staying asleep.

It worked for me and now I only rarely have a toss/turn night, and that's usually when I'm flaring. Or when we change up the routine, go to a movie or friends house on a weekend. It literally boils down to prior to that, everything I was doing (TV, computer, laundry, etc.) was a stimulating activity instead of more relaxing. May not work for you, but I sleep better now.


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## Velcro (Jul 26, 2013)

Oh, and the lighting made a big difference. Part of the reason computer and TV is not good before bed is that "light" is a big factor in sleep. Your body reacts to the flickering lights of the computer and tv. So he also told me to purchase a lamp for the bedroom and not use the overhead light after coming out of my bath. The dimming of the lights helps your body prepare itself for sleep.


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## Desertrose (Jul 30, 2013)

That is so true Velcro. After all we teach newborn babies "how to sleep" don't we?
Yeah I think routine is key....it's just so darned inconvenient is all, lol!
I should be stricter with myself - I WILL be....and see if that helps. 
And yes too about the lighting thing. Which is why I figured leaving the curtains open will naturally help me to wake up in the morning - and it DOES. 
Thanks!


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## Swimmer (Sep 12, 2013)

Is it possible that you are low on magnesium?

A naturopath was talking about magnesium, and to fall asleep, to take a tablespoon of a product called "Calm" sold at Fred Meyer for just under $20... She felt that was something that was very helpful. It is explalined here: 




Hope somehow this helps.


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## Desertrose (Jul 30, 2013)

Thanks, but I don't think so. I mean I take a magnesium supplement, almost every night.
I read that if you take vitamin D you should take magnesium as well. Vit D runs down your magnesium stores or something like that? I took it anyway as another sleep problem I have is restless legs and magnesium REALLY helps with that.
Weird thing is I only EVER had restless legs when I was pregnant. When it came back suddenly after all these years I thought perhaps the connection had to be hormonal which is why in the end I relented and let the doctor put me on HRT.
I'm still in doubt as to whether these symptoms I have are actually from Hashimoto's or whether it really is a female hormone problem.
All so darned complicated!


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