# Another new Hashi diagnosed



## highlandvalley (Apr 11, 2010)

Hi,

After 15 years of (just knowing something wasnt quite right) and after 4 miscarriages, the infertility bandwagon, and times where I just thought I wanted to (not play anymore), I have finally been diagnosed with Hashimotos. 
I insisted they test my antibodies due to my low carb forum buddies feeling I was hypothyroid.

The doctor didnt want to test but finally did so and of course it came back positive. He then told me to "look it up on the net" arrrrgh.

I was so terribly upset, I have a 3 year old and a 6 year old, it freaked me out.

I did NOT want to go back to a doctor, I have had a gut full (Aussie saying) of the medical system. However I did find a doc who would at least listen to me. He agreed to get some tests done and agreed to give me 1/2 grain Armour (I of course did look these up on the internet).

He readily agreed he knows nothing about Hashimotos and has promised to look into it and said he would consult and endocrinologist. He is also very open to what I have to say in my research. phew.

My tft is "within normal range" 3.32
My T3 is 10 
Blood sugar is normal
prolactin 680 (normal range 1-500)

No idea what anything else is until I get tested next week.

Symptoms are fatigue, I crash in the afternoons. Foggy brain. Lethargy. being very down but I dont think im depressed. tingly feet (sometimes). irritable with the kids (I HATE THIS THE MOST). Weight gain. Always wanting to eat. The back, shoulder pain is awful, especially at night. It wakes me up. Im living on panadol. And of course insomnia.

I have been a very active person and kept my weight down because of it but I had to eat next to nothing. I cant do so much now because of my back pain.

I have always been such a half full type of person, but negativity is starting to creep in.

I would love to hear from other people, would like to see what can be done. Who is taking what? what works? Does anyone not use fluoride, drink tea and not have any soy? does it work? does it make a difference?

Thanks for listening and would love some imput.

cheers
Corinne


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

highlandvalley said:


> Hi,
> 
> After 15 years of (just knowing something wasnt quite right) and after 4 miscarriages, the infertility bandwagon, and times where I just thought I wanted to (not play anymore), I have finally been diagnosed with Hashimotos.
> I insisted they test my antibodies due to my low carb forum buddies feeling I was hypothyroid.
> ...


Corinne...............welcome!! First I would like to say I am so sorry for your losses! Tch.

At that point, you would think some astute doc would say why is this woman having all these miscarriages? What a rotten sin.

I love Armour and I hope it works for you. You must get labs every 8 weeks so doctor can continue to raise your dose by small increments until you feel "good", commonly referred to as euthyroid state.

It is a shame also that one has to insist on antibodies' tests when that should be the obvious course of action first thing.

Why the back pain? Did you hurt yourself or do you think it is related to the thyroid disease? Many of us have pain; that is a given it would seem.


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## chopper (Mar 4, 2007)

Hi Corinne and welcome to the boards!

ok...my wife and I both have Hashi's. We too had 2 miscarriages AFTER having a perfectly healthy baby boy we conceived on the first shot. Of the 2 different miscarriages, one was a set of twins. We were pretty devastated. 3 babies in one year after having no trouble at all conceiving our first. I was diagnosed earlier and knew some of the signs. I told my wife I think her thyroid might be messed up too so we got her checked out. Sure enough her TSH was high and she had antibodies.

She went on Armour for 4 months and was stable. We got pregnant on the first attempt and our now 3 year old is happy and healthy. So YES it makes a difference during pregnancy.

I would like to see some reference ranges and additional labs, like Free T4 and Total T3 and Total T4.

I cannot be sure, but I suspect you may be a little better off on Synthroid depending on your T4 levels and your T3 reference ranges.

Armour, due to its T3 does tend to give some people that afternoon "crash". T3 is very short acting - it lasts a few hours and then goes away giving you that crashing tired feeling. However, Armour also has T4 in it so I suspect you might not be getting enough T4 which is much longer lasting. T4 stays with you several days. T3 stays with you several hours.

Without seeing additional labs and reference ranges, I am purely guessing but at the end of the day I suspect Synthroid or Levoxyl might work better for you and keep you more awake longer, but again, we need some more numbers.

I stay away from all soy myself. Soy does me in. I don't even use mayonaise anymore because of its high soybean oil content.

You know, it sounds pretty gross but your poop can tell you a lot. If you're having really hard movements and not going the way you once did it's typical indicative of hypo. Soft, frequent movements are usually associated with hyper. Poop and weight changes are usually some of the first symptoms to spring up with thyroid problems, as well as subtle and no-so-subtle changes in the skin. In women, periods tend to get real heavy and longer in duration when hypo and lighter and shorter in duration when hyper. Another early indicator usually.


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## highlandvalley (Apr 11, 2010)

Thank you thank you so much for replying. I feel like Im NOT on my own for the first time.

nasdaqphil - Oh guys, I do sooo understand what you went through. It is devasting, especially when it can be avoided. Twins, bless them. 
I had no problems conceiving, the poor things couldnt develop properly due to the hormonal imbalance. But that awful experience is now over and thank goodness for my beautiful, challenging naughty lovely wonderful children. I am sure you totally understand now you have your little boy.

Yes I know what you mean regarding bowel habits, I am definitely hypo at the moment. Heavy periods, not easy to go, and tired oh so tired. Of course this inevitably makes feel down. My poor hubby. He wants me to see an endocrinologist, but I know they dont treat the symptoms. My TSH falls within range so they say Im euthyroid, they will not give me anything until it goes out of range. That is why I have found this GP who prescribed armour.

I will have my tests next week so hopefully will have some numbers to go on.

Thanks again for your invaluable information.

Andros - Thanks for your reply. Yes you would think some astute doc would include antibodies in their testing. Because my tft's were within normal range they did not go further. They just said it was because YOU ARE OLD! *shake head* I started at 36. Not ideal but NOT OLD.

As for my back, no I have not hurt my back. I was a very very active person, very strong. I did ballet until I was 21 my core strength is strong. This feels muscular and joint. My shoulders hurt but my back feels like an ache then at night it burns. Im hoping it is not a second auto immune. It is causing such problems (i cant sleep unless I take a panadol). Some days its fine which makes me think it is another auto immune disease. I have no idea what though and im in a denial stage as I still cant believe I have hashis. hehe.

Anyway has anyone heard about the no wheat/gluten diet to rid the antibodies? or is it just fad.

I dont eat sugar since I found out, I have switched to xylitol.

thanks again
Corinne


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## hillaryedrn (Dec 14, 2009)

Hi there! I don't have much to add to what the others have said, but I did want to give my support! Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and are doing what you need to ensure you get good care! Way to go!!


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## highlandvalley (Apr 11, 2010)

hillaryedrn said:


> Hi there! I don't have much to add to what the others have said, but I did want to give my support! Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders and are doing what you need to ensure you get good care! Way to go!!


You know what? sometimes when you just feel so totally useless and down someone comes along and says just the right thing. I was feeling so DUMBED DOWN, foggy, forgetting things. When you said "Sounds like you have a good had on your shoulders" just made my day. Thanks  I am trying, I want to get this sorted and get on with it.

cheers
Corinne


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## mtmomma (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi Corinne,

I just wanted to say hello as well. I've found that when I really limit my sugar and carbs I feel so much better. Sometimes it's really hard to resist that chocolate chip cookie - but 20 minutes later I wish I hadn't given in to the temptation. HA!

nasdaqphil - I hadn't read about bowel movements changing when hypo (I knew about the menstrual cycles changing) - but it makes complete sense to me as I'm dancing in hypo ranges currently. I've been wondering what I had added/subtracted from my normal diet. Can't wait to get me leveled out again.

Hang in there and good luck! Hope you feel better soon!


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## highlandvalley (Apr 11, 2010)

mtmomma said:


> Hi Corinne,
> 
> I just wanted to say hello as well. I've found that when I really limit my sugar and carbs I feel so much better. Sometimes it's really hard to resist that chocolate chip cookie - but 20 minutes later I wish I hadn't given in to the temptation. HA!
> 
> ...


Hi there, thanks for your post. I know what you mean re the sugar, Im pretty good with my diet. I love L/c and I replace sugar with Xylitol. It dosnt seem to affect me. I make my own bread, and STAY WAY AWAY FROM SOY and FLUORIDE.

The bowel movements are big one for me. This has been one of the most obvious fo rme for years. I hope you get your balance right!

Does anyone suffer from back, neck and shoulder (and now arms) aches? Im wondering if it is something else? God forbid! It is constant. However yesterday I didnt have any pain?? which was awesome!

Thanks
Corinne


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## peaches (Sep 29, 2009)

Welcome to the site! I remember what a sense of relief it was when I found it. I felt like I had been rescued from a deserted island.

I too try to eliminate the soy and sugars from my diet. I have been careful about my carbs for years as I have McArdle's disease as well as the Hashi's. It is genetic muscle disease and carbs are a big no no because my body can't process them. I think that is why I feel so awful if I slip. I think it magnifies the negative affects that the Hashi's can present with carbs. I found that pure stevia is a good substitute for sugar.

The Hashi's has also compounded the muscle pain and weakness that I suffer with because of the McArdle's anyway so I wouldn't be a good judge when it comes to that symtpom. I got some good suggestions when I posted about charlie horses though. Tonic water was posted a few times as a way to help with them.

Now that I know about the Hashi's it helps me understand why I had the miscarriages that I had and that it wasn't anything that I was doing wrong. It can be hard to deal with at the time but God did bless me with two of the most amazing kids in the world. They do make their Mama proud.arty0049:

I finally found an endo who is treating my symptoms versus my so called "normal" ranges and it helped immensely. It took me about 5 doctors to find one that would help. I suggest that you don't give up on the finding an endocrinologist front because there are some good ones out there.

Good luck! sounds like you are well on your way to feeling better


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## highlandvalley (Apr 11, 2010)

peaches said:


> Welcome to the site! I remember what a sense of relief it was when I found it. I felt like I had been rescued from a deserted island.
> 
> I too try to eliminate the soy and sugars from my diet. I have been careful about my carbs for years as I have McArdle's disease as well as the Hashi's. It is genetic muscle disease and carbs are a big no no because my body can't process them. I think that is why I feel so awful if I slip. I think it magnifies the negative affects that the Hashi's can present with carbs. I found that pure stevia is a good substitute for sugar.
> 
> ...


Hey Peaches, thanks for posting.

I certainly understand what its like losing the babies BUT we got our babies  I consider myself extremely lucky on that front.

Mcardles sounds awful but sounds like you have it together 

I dont know what my muscle pain is, it is very strange. One day it is soo bad I am popping painkillers the next few days it has almost disappeared? I thought it was something really narly as it dosnt go away. But now I think its just apart of Hashis. Im hoping my Doc ups my Armour as I dont think it is enough. I am definitley Hypo at the moment. Usual symptoms, tired, irritable, constipated (the big tell tale for me). Had mega blood taken this morning to see where Im at so I will know on Friday.

Talk soon

C


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## highlandvalley (Apr 11, 2010)

Hi

Had my blood results back from my GP who by the way readily admits he knows nothing about Hashimotos.

TSH - 1.55 0.40 - 4.00
Free T4 - 11 9.0 - 19.0
Free T3 - 3.4 2.6 - 5.7
TPO Ab - 72.5 <5.6
TG Ab - 2.8 <4.1

Euthyroid levels.

Cholestrol 5.8
Tri - 1.4
HDL - 1.6
CRR - 3.6
LDL - 3.6

And the big one. (which I asked to have tested)

Prolactin 856 range levels 25-628

and a referral to see an endocrinologist. *sigh* he we go.

He also thinks I have Fibromyalgia. Personally I dont think so. Yes I have aching muscles but its not at the points they describe on the Fibro page.

cheers
C


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

highlandvalley said:


> Hi
> 
> Had my blood results back from my GP who by the way readily admits he knows nothing about Hashimotos.
> 
> ...


Both the Frees are below mid-range. FT4 should be 14 or higher, FT3 should be 4.1 or higher and the FT3 is your active hormone so you must be feeling very very tired?

High levels of prolactin (hyperprolactinemia) are normal during pregnancy and after childbirth while the mother is nursing. High levels are also seen with:

Anorexia nervosa 
Drugs: Estrogen, tricyclic antidepressants, and drugs that block the effect of dopamine (a brain chemical that regulates and inhibits the production of prolactin) such as: tranquilizers, some hypertension drugs, and some drugs that are used to treat gastroesophageal reflux 
Hypothalamic diseases 
Hypothyroidism 
Kidney disease 
Nipple stimulation (moderate increase) 
Other pituitary tumors and diseases 
Polycystic ovary syndrome 
Prolactinomas

http://www.labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/prolactin/test.html

Glad you are seeing an endo. Have you made the appt. yet?


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## highlandvalley (Apr 11, 2010)

Hi Andros

Thanks for replying 

Yes I do feel tired, especially in the afternoon. At night its bed at 8.30pm!!! ugh.

My Gp told me I can up the 15mg Armour, one in the am and one in the pm. He is worried I will go Hyper! and said it can affect my heart. All scary stuff. I am going to have one in the afternoon. I really dont think I will go Hyper. If I start feeling Hyper I will stop.

I am not pregnant or nursing. I actually had high prolactin before I started trying to have children. I was put on bromocriptine which lowered the prolactin but it made me feel terrible. ugh here we go again.

I will make an appointment with the Endo next week when he receives the referral from my GP.

My back pain has almost disappeared? very strange. It does this. Comes and goes. I think it has a lot to do with Hashis. My Gp told me not to get too bogged down with Hashis (huh?). He of course said my levels were spot on and not to worry about being Hypothyroid because I am not. I kept saying to him but I swing. One day I feel not too bad and have energy, go to the toilet really well. 3 days later Im exhausted, strained bowel movements, fuzzy head etc. He just said its Fibrymyalgia. *shake head*.

Thanks for listening and helping.

Corinne


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## GD Women (Mar 5, 2007)

Your levels might relate to or suggest allergies, hormonal imbalance, yeast, etc. The levels can be confusing and needs thorough evaluation to determine source of the problem. This also could be chronic adrenal fatigue which is confused with hypothyroidism because of the low FTs and some doctors mistakenly interpret the low TSH as pituitary trouble. If given adrenal support the T-3 should go higher, but needs to be treated before thyroid.

When a person is on the correct Armour dose, the TSH should be optimal, FT-4 low and FT-3 high. The body seems to do better with a steady state of energy. T4 acts slowly but T3 is rapid to come and go. Therefore to maintain a steadier blood level of T3, it is better taken in divided doses. Splitting the daily dose into 2 or 3 stresses the adrenals and that is why adrenals need to be taken care of and treaedt first.

Have you had any of the above problems checked out? Also Secondary hypothyroidism could be the issue. Have you had tested cholesterol levels, liver enzymes, serum prolactin, serum sodium,Low blood glucose, CBC and pituitary hormones, a chest x-ray and how are your vital signs. These all play a roll in our health including thyroid.

If you do have other health issues and don't have them checked out and taken care of you will never feel good no matter thyroid med. dose or correct levels.

Good Luck and Feel Better!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

highlandvalley said:


> Hi Andros
> 
> Thanks for replying
> 
> ...


I sure hope your endo does a better job for you!!

By the way, 30 mgs of Armour (15 mg. x 2) is a starting dose as per the prescribing information. That is not to say you won't be ultra-sensitive but I don't think you will.

What day next week do you see the endo?


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## highlandvalley (Apr 11, 2010)

Hello GD Women - thanks for your post. Yes I think I understand what you are saying. I agree with the adrenals, I hopefully will have all this tested with my Endo. I have had my cholestrol liver etc tested. Everything is quite good except for slightly high cholestrol and of course the prolactin. I will be having this checked out with an appt with and endocrinologist. High prolactin can very much affect the adrenals.

Andros - I took the second Armour today and I didnt crash like I normal do! good sign I think. I have had no reactions whatsoever. Its obvious I need it.

I have not made the Appt yet with the Endo, I have to wait until they receive the referral from my GP. I will be doing it on Tuesday (long weekend here). Im hoping he can give me some answers. I will be definitely having a MRI to find out if there is a slow growing tumour or anything else narly. Of course another million blood tests. But it is good. I will find out.

I also have an appt with a GP who is specialising in thyroid problems, he first looks at adrenals etc. He sounds very promising. He treats symptoms yaya.

So looks like im on my way. I feel a little better today (mentally) at least I can get this sorted. I will keep going until I know exactly what is going on.

thanks all
Corinne


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

highlandvalley said:


> Hello GD Women - thanks for your post. Yes I think I understand what you are saying. I agree with the adrenals, I hopefully will have all this tested with my Endo. I have had my cholestrol liver etc tested. Everything is quite good except for slightly high cholestrol and of course the prolactin. I will be having this checked out with an appt with and endocrinologist. High prolactin can very much affect the adrenals.
> 
> Andros - I took the second Armour today and I didnt crash like I normal do! good sign I think. I have had no reactions whatsoever. Its obvious I need it.
> 
> ...


That is very good news about the second dose and I am sure you do need it. Glad to hear you feel a "tad" better.

Hope and pray there are no pit tumors. There are so many reasons for high prolactin including being hypo..............................; I am keeping my fingers crossed for you!


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## highlandvalley (Apr 11, 2010)

Hello there

Its been awhile, I havnt posted mainly because I was waiting to see this Doc who knows about thyroid problems.

I cancelled my appt with the endo because I love this Doc.

Ooookey dokey,

Had my appt with Ismail today, very nice man and OMG I didnt have to explain too much. HE ALREADY KNEW.

He checked my results from previous tests and confirmed I was Hypothyroid, but he also thinks my adrenals are totally exhausted, he reckons there are few other hormones out of whack too and is testing them.

Now this is the confusing part, but I like it.

He reckons nope, I dont have Hashimotos!!!! Im like wha? he said yes I have a result from pathology that says I do but he thinks my raised antibodies are to do with my thyroid and adrenal exhaustion. He reckons levels over 100 suggest Hashimotos my levels are 72 and he thinks they seem quite low. Um ok, I am sooo confused. I tend to believe him more than the lab levels and the other inane gp's.

This makes me feel very good indeed.

He told me I HAD to slow down, I have to learn to say NO! I need to rebuild my body basically, it is soooo run down that it will take time.

He has me on cortisol, starting at 60mg of Armour twice daily (he wants to start conservative) he reckons any previous Armour would have made me feel worse as my cortisol levels most likely are low. Also oxytocin. All very interesting.

Anyway I have a heap of blood tests tomorrow so that will be interesting.
He testing cortisol/insulin, DHEA, all the girlie hormones, IGF1 IGFB3, hmm they could be wrong I dont have the sheet with me, Renin, aldosterone and a couple of others.

Will be interesting to say the least.

cheers
C
All bit exciting really, feel like Im getting somewhere.


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## GD Women (Mar 5, 2007)

Your doctor is correct and thorough.

Even if you are thyroid, the adrenals need to be treated first because they can effect thyroid levels.

Although the 60mg of Armour twice daily has me confused. If you are not thyroid why are you on them. If you are thyroid the adrenals need to be treated and cured first, then on with thyroid treatment after.

Hmmmm!


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## highlandvalley (Apr 11, 2010)

Hello GD

Yes I think I confused you due to my tiredness, I drove 4 hours and back to see that doctor.

He said I am Hypothyroid now (took one look at me and said this), he has started me off with the cortisol and also the Armour he said within a week the cortisol should make me feel better and that with the Armour (he said it would kick in about 6 weeks) should make me feel 50% better. Also supplements for extra for the adrenals. He thinks Im a pretty easy case and it should not be complex at all.

Fingers crossed.

c


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## hillaryedrn (Dec 14, 2009)

Wow, that is impressive!! Sounds like you have found yourself one amazing doctor! That is wonderful news!! I am really hoping that he will get you all "figured out" and it sounds like he's on the right track. Keep us updated and let us know how you feel once you get a good start on these new meds.


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## highlandvalley (Apr 11, 2010)

Hi Hillary

Thanks yes I think i have lucked out. This is because of the wonders of the internet and forums! That is how I found him. thank goodness for Forums like this and the one I visit in Australia.

I think he is awesome. I have been through the mill in the last 15 years or so. it is wonderful to actually talk to a medico who dosnt dismiss the most important things "the symptoms"!!! I was also amazed to hear that he thinks i dont have Hashis as two other doctors told me, this is it, you have this disease for life!!! And all the time I may not actually have it at all!!! shake head. Anyway even if I do, I have found someone who will help me.
Cant ask for more than that 

Cheers
C


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## Amy17 (Feb 6, 2010)

Hi Corrine
Welcome to the board. You get great advice here and support!
I too am down under and just recently found out i have hashimoto's.
You were saying that your doctor hasn't put you on oroxine as your levels are still sort of normal. When i saw my Dr, my tsh was slightly out of range and i had alot of antibodies, but my symptoms far outweighed those results.

Same symptoms as you. But i insisted she start treating me with some oroxine which i am now on. I will admit, in terms of tiredness and lethargy i feel heaps better, but i know when my thyroid is out, because it all comes back again.

I'm seeing an endocronologist for the first time in a couple of weeks just to make sure i am doing the right things.

Let us know what your bloods are.
Hope your feeling better


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## highlandvalley (Apr 11, 2010)

Hi Amy and thanks for the welcome, like I said thank goodness for such forums!

Im sorry you have Hashis, what are you antibodies?

I hope you have good luck with the Endo, I cancelled mine as I KNOW he will want me to stop Armour and go on to the synthetics. UGH. Not all Endos are like that of course.

At least with Armour I know it will help my T3 T4 levels.

Have you visited Stop the Thyroid madness website? it was sooo helpful for me.

When I said the doctor did not put me on any meds was BEFORE I found this other doctor. That is the reason I did not go back! He was in my opinion inane. He actually said to me " You have Hashimotos/Graves disease, look it up on the net"!! WTF? Then proceeded to tell me that my levels were almost ok and that I didnt need any meds. I NEVER went back to him.

The Doctor I see now is awesome. He has recognised my adrenals are fatigued and has given me cortisol along with dessicated thyroid which we will monitor until we get it right. He has also given me oxytocin ( the love hormone when a baby is born) yay! He believes I dont have Hashis because my antibodies are only 72, he thinks they should be over 100 for it to be hashis, he believes it is my hypothyroid that is causing the antibodies to raise. All very interesting stuff. I couldnt be happier if this is true as the people here can attest hashis is not very nice, it is a very complex disease that causes sooo much suffering. And it seems to be silent, not talked about much. Soo many Gps do not know enough about it and dont seem to be bothered either (or too busy).

I just know that I cant wait to feel better, I have never ever been this tired in all my life.

C


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## highlandvalley (Apr 11, 2010)

Just a quick hello.

I have started my medication 60mg x 2 daily of Armour, cortisol and oxytocin.

Well I cant believe the difference already!!! I obviously had some serious adrenal fatigue as the cortisol has kicked in already. My first day without brain fog around 10 - 11 am and IM NOT TIRED. Slowed down in the afternoon a little but THIS IS AMAZING. I feel im going in the right direction. awesome!

Cant wait until the Armour kicks in (around 5 weeks) wooohooo.

I hope the Doc gives me some Human Growth I think that will top it off and I will be on my way to good health finally.

If anyone is reading this to help them, it is sooooooo important to find a doctor who treats symptoms not just lab tests!!

cheers
C


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