# Still hyper at this time



## miltomeal

RAI treatment 1 month ago - 12.6 mCi

Tests before this were...
TSH <.379 (.380 - 4.310)
FT4 2.96 (.82-1.63)
Uptake was 53.4 normal is <30, no nodules
Scan showed enlargement of thyroid
There is family history of GD

These are my first blood test results since RAI:
TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
FT4 6.25 (.82-1.63)
FT3 16.9 (2.0-4.9)

To me, this shows that i am still hyper. Not much has changed in regards to symptoms since RAI, lack of concentration, weight loss, anxiety, shaking, fatigue, heat intolerence(can't even sit in the hot springs) mood swings, weakness, the list does go on... i feel like i am crawling out of my skin here and have been this way for too long. i want to know what it is like to feel good!

Is there a reason for my FT4 to be so much higher with this recent test? Is there any medication that i should consider taking besides the 25mg beta blocker? Should i ask for more tests at this time?

I have been going thru a lot of the old posts here and must say that this bunch of folks is wonderful! arty0009:

Thanks all!


----------



## miltomeal

Update, my endo called this morning and wants me to come in and see her. I tried to make the appointment myself and was told that it would be three weeks. I told them to talk to her because she is the one who wanted to make this appointment, they call back and i will be in next Wednesday. She also said that she is not sure why my Free T4 blood test results are higher. I am not taking anything or doing anything different from the last blood tests.
Anyway, i would like to be a little more informed about my blood test results, could someone shed some light on why my Free T4 might have doubled since before RAI? 
Thanks
steve


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> Update, my endo called this morning and wants me to come in and see her. I tried to make the appointment myself and was told that it would be three weeks. I told them to talk to her because she is the one who wanted to make this appointment, they call back and i will be in next Wednesday. She also said that she is not sure why my Free T4 blood test results are higher. I am not taking anything or doing anything different from the last blood tests.
> Anyway, i would like to be a little more informed about my blood test results, could someone shed some light on why my Free T4 might have doubled since before RAI?
> Thanks
> steve


Steve..................I can only guess. You may be going more hyper or your FT4 may not be converting to T3.

I hope your doc does FREE T3 test and please let us know what the outcome of this visit is.


----------



## miltomeal

Thanks for your reply Andros. I really feel comforted by this forum.

Went to see the endo this morning. She didn't really tell me more than i already knew and that we will see what happens with next weeks blood tests. She also said that i don't need any different blood tests than i have already been tested for, which i am not sure about. here are the results from previously....

RAI treatment 5/6/2011 - 12.6 mCi

Tests before this were...
TSH <.379 (.380 - 4.310)
FT4 2.96 (.82-1.63)
Uptake at 24 hours was 53.4 normal is <30, no nodules
Scan showed enlargement of thyroid
There is family history of GD

These are my first blood test results since RAI:
TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
FT4 6.25 (.82-1.63)
FT3 16.9 (2.0-4.9)

I am able to do things these days though and get through work which is good because i cannot afford time off right now...most of my symptoms now are whole body shaking, rapid heart rate (110-119 this morning), exhaustion, lack of concentration, weight loss, and anxiety. i do have beta blockers at home, but haven't been taking them because i do not want to have to ween myself off later...

She thinks that the thyroid uptaked the treatment before the radiation had time to do what it was supposed to do. I did mention that i am interested in removing the thyroid if there is no improvement.

i guess i will wait until next weeks blood tests...


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> Thanks for your reply Andros. I really feel comforted by this forum.
> 
> Went to see the endo this morning. She didn't really tell me more than i already knew and that we will see what happens with next weeks blood tests. She also said that i don't need any different blood tests than i have already been tested for, which i am not sure about. here are the results from previously....
> 
> RAI treatment 5/6/2011 - 12.6 mCi
> 
> Tests before this were...
> TSH <.379 (.380 - 4.310)
> FT4 2.96 (.82-1.63)
> Uptake at 24 hours was 53.4 normal is <30, no nodules
> Scan showed enlargement of thyroid
> There is family history of GD
> 
> These are my first blood test results since RAI:
> TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
> FT4 6.25 (.82-1.63)
> FT3 16.9 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> I am able to do things these days though and get through work which is good because i cannot afford time off right now...most of my symptoms now are whole body shaking, rapid heart rate (110-119 this morning), exhaustion, lack of concentration, weight loss, and anxiety. i do have beta blockers at home, but haven't been taking them because i do not want to have to ween myself off later...
> 
> She thinks that the thyroid uptaked the treatment before the radiation had time to do what it was supposed to do. I did mention that i am interested in removing the thyroid if there is no improvement.
> 
> i guess i will wait until next weeks blood tests...


Yeah; wow! You are still pretty hyper.

Let me tell you about the heart. It is not wise to not take your betablocker. I and many others have permanent heart damage from untreated hyper. Just give that some thought.

And I am not sure surgery is possible after having had RAI. I have heard that makes it difficult if not impossible to do. If you find out otherwise, I would like to know because I am not sure my info is from a credible source.

I think I mentioned that I had to have RAI 3 times? That was back in the 80's and surgery was not an option offered to me. I wish it had been though.

The thyroid is supposed to uptake the radioactive iodine. I am not sure what your doctor means by this.

In the advanced stages of hyper, it is not unusual to need more than one RAI as they can only give so much radiation at a time so as to not kill the patient. LOL!

Your comments welcome on that one too!


----------



## chopper

My guess is that the RAI IS working and the cells are dying off FAST, flooding your system with additional hormone. Think of the thyroid as a bunch of water balloons and each balloon is filled with thyroid hormone. The RAI is like a needle popping all those balloons, dumping all the contents of the cells (thyroid hormone) into your system. The good news is that if you can white-knuckle the next week or two, all that extra hormone will get used up and cannot be replaced and your numbers should start to come down and you'll start to feel more and more normal as everything slows.

Those numbers are very high and I too think you should be on beta blocker and watch your heart rate closely over the next couple of weeks. Usually if and when you get dumping like that, it could mean you are on a fast track to killing off your gland and really it should only be another week or so at most for the worst of it.

I've seen a hundred people come through here and get RAI and the timing is right. It seems the RAI does the most damage about 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 weeks after its taken. From what I've seen here that's about the right time to start getting a little extra shaky as those cells dye off quickly. Once they're dead though, they will most likely never come back. They can, but it's not very likely.

Hopefully you are on your way to recovery. Keep yourself relaxed these next few days and take that beta blocker if you were prescribed some. If it gets real bad, ask your doc for some Xanax too to get you through this. It WILL help you.

-Phil


----------



## miltomeal

The endo appointment and listening to you all has kicked me into gear re taking the beta blocker. i haven't been paying close enough attention to what my body has been telling me, and this is a very important part to getting myself better. A Very BIG Thank You!

I also am not sure if they will remove my thyroid after RAI treatment. I didn't sound like it would be hard to find a surgeon willing... there is some time before i need (or hopefully do not need) to make this decision and for now, we need more time to see how this treatment worked!

Phil, i was thinking the same thing with regards to my results being more out of whack. i am hoping for better results and will let the board know the results from next weeks tests when i get them.

WooHoo! this forum rocks! 
steve


----------



## chopper

Yeah, I highly doubt you are "naturally" turning more hyper. Your body is getting dumped on by all those cells dying off, hopefully for good.

I've been on these boards from the start and have seen a lot of RAI stories. Usually the folks that get the most hyper a few weeks after RAI are the folks whose thyroids die off really fast. Some people dump, turn hyper and then its over. Others will slowly die off over months so they never feel that rush but at the same time, usually have to deal with hypo for a long time before getting meds.

My guess is that you will be totally hypo within 3 or 4 weeks tops, possibly sooner. As soon as you start feeling really mellow, almost drunk, dizzy, cold, constipated, etc...get to your doctor to get some blood work and possibly some Synthroid or Armor thyroid replacement. You don't want to go too long being hypo either. It's very uncomfortable. If you can manage to find that sweet spot - the transition between hypo and hyper, you can titrate a good dose of replacement thyroid without suffering any effects of hypo. I would definitely try to get new blood work each week or week and a half if you can. If your numbers went up the way they did, your body is responding quickly to the RAI and your numbers will probably fall as quickly as they went up once the thyroid is pronounced dead.

You have heard of thyroid storm, havent you? Look it up if you have not. I don't want to scare you but if the hyper gets much worse over the next couple of days, get your butt to the ER and tell them you are in the midst of thyroid storm after RAI - they'll know what to do at that point. Just an FYI. You have probably already seen the worst of it though. It should start calming down from here soon.

Good luck.

By the way, what are they going to remove after RAI???? Your thyroid will be gone after the nukes do their job. Don't worry about surgery. Very few people need RAI more than once or twice. Usually it works the first time. There are some exceptions on these boards for sure, but given the number of people who get RAI, their thyroid is usually zapped the first time around.


----------



## miltomeal

another set of blood work that shows i am even more out of balance than before.

RAI treatment 5/6/2011 - 12.6 mCi

Tests before this were...
TSH <.379 (.380 - 4.310)
FT4 2.96 (.82-1.63)
Uptake at 24 hours was 53.4 normal is <30, no nodules
Scan showed enlargement of thyroid
There is family history of GD

These are my first blood test results since RAI:
TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
FT4 6.25 (.82-1.63)
FT3 16.9 (2.0-4.9)

Blood tests for 6/15/2011
TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
Free T4 7.92 (.82-1.63)
Free T3 23.7 (2.0-4.9)

The endo is ready to put me on some medication to lower these results. It has only been 6 weeks since the RAI treatment and i am not sure if we should wait another week for more tests... any advise?


----------



## miltomeal

and, right now my symptoms are

shakiness, no concentration, shortness of breath, fatigue, weight loss, sore neck. i have been taking 25mg beta blocker and some ativan and can make it thru the workday, but really nothing else gets done. just trying to keep the status quo going!

Thanks again for everyone's support!


----------



## chopper

Holy crap...I think that's the highest Free T3 I've ever seen on these boards. You better keep up with those beta blockers.

My only guess is that you are still unloading. It doesnt happen overnight. I don't know how you are standing let alone going to work with those numbers though. My FT3 goes a little above normal and Im a shaky mess.


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> another set of blood work that shows i am even more out of balance than before.
> 
> RAI treatment 5/6/2011 - 12.6 mCi
> 
> Tests before this were...
> TSH <.379 (.380 - 4.310)
> FT4 2.96 (.82-1.63)
> Uptake at 24 hours was 53.4 normal is <30, no nodules
> Scan showed enlargement of thyroid
> There is family history of GD
> 
> These are my first blood test results since RAI:
> TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
> FT4 6.25 (.82-1.63)
> FT3 16.9 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> Blood tests for 6/15/2011
> TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
> Free T4 7.92 (.82-1.63)
> Free T3 23.7 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> The endo is ready to put me on some medication to lower these results. It has only been 6 weeks since the RAI treatment and i am not sure if we should wait another week for more tests... any advise?


Dang!! Well, just so you know; I had to have RAI 3 times to knock that thyroid out. Not unusual in advanced cases of hyper. They can only give so much at one time; that is the caveat.

If I had known that, I would have insisted on surgery.

I feel bad for you; what a mess.


----------



## miltomeal

There is still a ways to go for me, but the last blood tests finally showed my Frees heading down!!! I will be watching this closely since the numbers went up so fast and may fall quickly.

RAI treatment 5/6/2011 - 12.6 mCi

Tests before this were...
TSH <.379 (.380 - 4.310)
FT4 2.96 (.82-1.63)
Uptake at 24 hours was 53.4 normal is <30, no nodules
Scan showed enlargement of thyroid
There is family history of GD

These are my first blood test results since RAI:
TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
FT4 6.25 (.82-1.63)
FT3 16.9 (2.0-4.9)

Blood tests for 6/15/2011
TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
Free T4 7.92 (.82-1.63)
Free T3 23.7 (2.0-4.9)

blood tests from 6/22/11
TSH <.379
Free T4 5.96 (.82-163)
Free T3 17.7 (2.0-4.9)

going to see the endo this afternoon because she wants to put me on anti-thyroid meds. I am thinking that i will watch my numbers closely and skip the meds to see what the outcome of the RAI actually is. Just read April's thread and can see how fast and hard hypo can hit. Thanks Andros and Phil for your input. i will keep you posted.
steve


----------



## miltomeal

and i am keeping up on my beta blockers!!!!


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> another set of blood work that shows i am even more out of balance than before.
> 
> RAI treatment 5/6/2011 - 12.6 mCi
> 
> Tests before this were...
> TSH <.379 (.380 - 4.310)
> FT4 2.96 (.82-1.63)
> Uptake at 24 hours was 53.4 normal is <30, no nodules
> Scan showed enlargement of thyroid
> There is family history of GD
> 
> These are my first blood test results since RAI:
> TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
> FT4 6.25 (.82-1.63)
> FT3 16.9 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> Blood tests for 6/15/2011
> TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
> Free T4 7.92 (.82-1.63)
> Free T3 23.7 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> The endo is ready to put me on some medication to lower these results. It has only been 6 weeks since the RAI treatment and i am not sure if we should wait another week for more tests... any advise?


Yo, Steve!! You know? Your Frees are going up. Not good. They did not get it zapped good enough. Do you remember I mentioned that I had to have 3 RAI??

I think this may be the case w/you. When a person is in the advanced stages of hyper, one dose of radiation does not do it. As you know, they just can't give you any old dose; it has to be strictly measured.

If in doubt, insist on another RAIU to see what the uptake is.


----------



## miltomeal

Andros, 
i have posted more blood results that you didn't copy into you reply.

Free T4 and T3 both went down this last week. here they are, and thanks again for everything!

These are my first blood test results since RAI:
TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
FT4 6.25 (.82-1.63)
FT3 16.9 (2.0-4.9)

Blood tests for 6/15/2011
TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
Free T4 7.92 (.82-1.63)
Free T3 23.7 (2.0-4.9)

blood tests from 6/22/11
TSH <.379
Free T4 5.96 (.82-163)
Free T3 17.7 (2.0-4.9)


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> Andros,
> i have posted more blood results that you didn't copy into you reply.
> 
> Free T4 and T3 both went down this last week. here they are, and thanks again for everything!
> 
> These are my first blood test results since RAI:
> TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
> FT4 6.25 (.82-1.63)
> FT3 16.9 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> Blood tests for 6/15/2011
> TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
> Free T4 7.92 (.82-1.63)
> Free T3 23.7 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> blood tests from 6/22/11
> TSH <.379
> Free T4 5.96 (.82-163)
> Free T3 17.7 (2.0-4.9)


Is this with or w/o antithyroid med? You said something about it previous.

If w/o................that is very good. I am relieved but it sure is slo mo. You cannot be feeling your calmest.


----------



## miltomeal

This is without anti-thyroid meds. and i think that i am going to not take any yet. i would like to see these numbers go down by themselves. Question: how long should you be off anti-thyroid meds before you have the radioiodine treatment/uptake and scan if i do decide to take them for a while?

the beta blockers really are helping me out a lot. if i don't take them, i feel me heart rate going up. Also, shaking pretty bad in the knees and elbows.


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> This is without anti-thyroid meds. and i think that i am going to not take any yet. i would like to see these numbers go down by themselves. Question: how long should you be off anti-thyroid meds before you have the radioiodine treatment/uptake and scan if i do decide to take them for a while?
> 
> the beta blockers really are helping me out a lot. if i don't take them, i feel me heart rate going up. Also, shaking pretty bad in the knees and elbows.


You are saving your heart by taking the beta-blocker. I was not offered them way back when. I now have mitral valve prolapse and who knows what else.

I think that due to the short half-life of antithyroid meds, maybe a week; 10 days maybe? How long were you off them prior to the RAI?

Aha; this just in thanks to Google!

Antithyroid Drugs Before RAI

Sometimes, doctors prescribe antithyroid medications to prepare patients for RAI. The drugs help bring the levels of thyroid hormone back to normal and reduce the odds of a sudden surge in hormone levels after RAI treatment. However, antithyroid drugs interfere with the uptake of iodine, so they're generally stopped two weeks before RAI.

I was not too wrong. LOL!

Here's the link.

http://www.netplaces.com/thyroid-disease/treating-hyperthyroidism/antithyroid-drugs.htm


----------



## miltomeal

Well, it does look like i may have to do the RAI again, or something to get this under control.

RAI treatment 5/6/2011 - 12.6 mCi

Tests before this were...
TSH <.379 (.380 - 4.310)
FT4 2.96 (.82-1.63)
Uptake at 24 hours was 53.4 normal is <30, no nodules
Scan showed enlargement of thyroid
There is family history of GD

These are my first blood test results since RAI:
TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
FT4 6.25 (.82-1.63)
FT3 16.9 (2.0-4.9)

Blood tests for 6/15/2011
TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
Free T4 7.92 (.82-1.63)
Free T3 23.7 (2.0-4.9)

blood tests from 6/22/11
TSH <.379
Free T4 5.96 (.82-163)
Free T3 17.7 (2.0-4.9)

bllod tests from 6/29/11
TSH <.379
Free T4 6.8 (.82-1.63)
Free T3 24.0 (2.0-4.9)

had one week where the Frees headed down... so going to see the endo next week to try to come up with a plan on where to go next. At last weeks appt., she had a list of surgeons to contact regarding removal of thyroid after RAI, which i didn't take because my numbers went down and not really sure i can have it surgically removed.

So, is there a specific timeframe to wait until the second round of RAI? all i found was something about second doses of RAI are rare.

Should i start some anti-thyroid meds for a while before this?

Thanks again everyone! Steve


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> Well, it does look like i may have to do the RAI again, or something to get this under control.
> 
> RAI treatment 5/6/2011 - 12.6 mCi
> 
> Tests before this were...
> TSH <.379 (.380 - 4.310)
> FT4 2.96 (.82-1.63)
> Uptake at 24 hours was 53.4 normal is <30, no nodules
> Scan showed enlargement of thyroid
> There is family history of GD
> 
> These are my first blood test results since RAI:
> TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
> FT4 6.25 (.82-1.63)
> FT3 16.9 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> Blood tests for 6/15/2011
> TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
> Free T4 7.92 (.82-1.63)
> Free T3 23.7 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> blood tests from 6/22/11
> TSH <.379
> Free T4 5.96 (.82-163)
> Free T3 17.7 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> bllod tests from 6/29/11
> TSH <.379
> Free T4 6.8 (.82-1.63)
> Free T3 24.0 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> had one week where the Frees headed down... so going to see the endo next week to try to come up with a plan on where to go next. At last weeks appt., she had a list of surgeons to contact regarding removal of thyroid after RAI, which i didn't take because my numbers went down and not really sure i can have it surgically removed.
> 
> So, is there a specific timeframe to wait until the second round of RAI? all i found was something about second doses of RAI are rare.
> 
> Should i start some anti-thyroid meds for a while before this?
> 
> Thanks again everyone! Steve


Hi, Steve! I am not sure about the time frame. I had to have RAIU again to ascertain the uptake status each time.

Once you have RAI, I think that renders surgery more difficult. I am not positive though.

Geez; it's like you never had the RAI at all. The numbers are definitely way hyper.

Anti-thyroid drugs could interfere w/ the RAI. I would call the folks who will do the RAI and ask them. That is what I would do. If you get the second one, you want to get the full benefit of it.

How are you feeling?


----------



## miltomeal

i'm on a roller coaster ride. I do not know how i will feel from moment to moment these days. Emotional, physically, and mentally...everything is so up in the air!

i am keeping my positive attitude!!! this shall pass


----------



## miltomeal

i just want to throw this out there.

the week before my blood tests went down, i went to my chiropractor (have had back issues for the last 3 years). He adjusted my T12 and Atlas and said that he was helping my adrenals and calming my thyroid. 
The chiro went out of town and so i didn't see him before yesterdays blood tests.

not sure if there is such a connection or not. i will be seeing him before my next set of blood tests. should be an interesting experiment.


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> i just want to throw this out there.
> 
> the week before my blood tests went down, i went to my chiropractor (have had back issues for the last 3 years). He adjusted my T12 and Atlas and said that he was helping my adrenals and calming my thyroid.
> The chiro went out of town and so i didn't see him before yesterdays blood tests.
> 
> not sure if there is such a connection or not. i will be seeing him before my next set of blood tests. should be an interesting experiment.


I will be interested as well. Do let us know and a positive attitude goes a very very long way when a person is unwell. I am all for it.

You are on a ride alright and your body is very very confused right now.

Pamper yourself. And get plenty of rest "if" you can.


----------



## miltomeal

well, ive been watching my lab results closely/weekly at phils suggestion. and it is peaks and valley these days, but we may be headed in the right direction. Have an endo appt tomorrow afternoon and am interested to hear what she has to say because she was ready to put me on anti-thyroid meds a couple of weeks ago and that may change with these results.

I also visited the chiropractor last Thursday and he adjusted my T5 and C7, which he believes relates directly to the thyroid function. This week my T4 was way down...

RAI treatment 5/6/2011 - 12.6 mCi

Tests before this were...
TSH <.379 (.380 - 4.310)
FT4 2.96 (.82-1.63)
Uptake at 24 hours was 53.4 normal is <30, no nodules
Scan showed enlargement of thyroid
There is family history of GD

These are my first blood test results since RAI:
TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
FT4 6.25 (.82-1.63)
FT3 16.9 (2.0-4.9)

Blood tests for 6/15/2011
TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
Free T4 7.92 (.82-1.63)
Free T3 23.7 (2.0-4.9)

blood tests from 6/22/11
TSH <.379
Free T4 5.96 (.82-163)
Free T3 17.7 (2.0-4.9)

blood tests from 6/29/11
TSH <.379
Free T4 6.8 (.82-1.63)
Free T3 24.0 (2.0-4.9)

tests from 7/6/2011
TSH <.379
Free T4 <.82 (.82-1.63)
Free T3 >4.9 (2.0-4.9)

The report also shows that they are sending my blood work to another lab for more specific results. This is the first time this has happened, so i have no timeframe for when these will return. What a journey!


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> well, ive been watching my lab results closely/weekly at phils suggestion. and it is peaks and valley these days, but we may be headed in the right direction. Have an endo appt tomorrow afternoon and am interested to hear what she has to say because she was ready to put me on anti-thyroid meds a couple of weeks ago and that may change with these results.
> 
> I also visited the chiropractor last Thursday and he adjusted my T5 and C7, which he believes relates directly to the thyroid function. This week my T4 was way down...
> 
> RAI treatment 5/6/2011 - 12.6 mCi
> 
> Tests before this were...
> TSH <.379 (.380 - 4.310)
> FT4 2.96 (.82-1.63)
> Uptake at 24 hours was 53.4 normal is <30, no nodules
> Scan showed enlargement of thyroid
> There is family history of GD
> 
> These are my first blood test results since RAI:
> TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
> FT4 6.25 (.82-1.63)
> FT3 16.9 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> Blood tests for 6/15/2011
> TSH <.379 (.380-4.310)
> Free T4 7.92 (.82-1.63)
> Free T3 23.7 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> blood tests from 6/22/11
> TSH <.379
> Free T4 5.96 (.82-163)
> Free T3 17.7 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> blood tests from 6/29/11
> TSH <.379
> Free T4 6.8 (.82-1.63)
> Free T3 24.0 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> tests from 7/6/2011
> TSH <.379
> Free T4 <.82 (.82-1.63)
> Free T3 >4.9 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> The report also shows that they are sending my blood work to another lab for more specific results. This is the first time this has happened, so i have no timeframe for when these will return. What a journey!


Those Frees have come down considerably. This is very very excellent. Soon the TSH will get the message and start it's climb upward.

How are you feeling? Calmer?


----------



## miltomeal

Not really. lots of shaking these days, forgetfullness, exhaustion and most of the same symptoms... still keeping a positive attitude.

off to PT and opthamologist and then rest

hope you all are having a wonderful day!


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> Not really. lots of shaking these days, forgetfullness, exhaustion and most of the same symptoms... still keeping a positive attitude.
> 
> off to PT and opthamologist and then rest
> 
> hope you all are having a wonderful day!


Hopefully you will feel better in a few days as those numbers really are down. How about your eyes? How are you doing with that?

I am having a wonderful day. It's all about attitude and I am glad to be alive and glad to be here.

Wishing the same for you. You will beat this thing.


----------



## miltomeal

Good news from the opthamologist (sp?) he seemed well informed about GD and doesn't see any issues with my eyes! I will see him again when he is in town next month ( i live in a small mountain town and we have doctors come over from larger cities to help our hospital)

Talked to the endo and she is looking to get specific reading on my blood tests and i will see her this afternoon!

Today is a great day to be alive and kickin!


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> Good news from the opthamologist (sp?) he seemed well informed about GD and doesn't see any issues with my eyes! I will see him again when he is in town next month ( i live in a small mountain town and we have doctors come over from larger cities to help our hospital)
> 
> Talked to the endo and she is looking to get specific reading on my blood tests and i will see her this afternoon!
> 
> Today is a great day to be alive and kickin!


What wonderful news about your eyes. Now you have an ophthalmolic baseline that will be very handy.

Let us know what the endo has to say. I am happy for you!


----------



## miltomeal

Well, the pagosa hospital messed up the blood tests yesterday. The endo got the correct report from the hospital over in durango and is shows me to be about the same as the prior tests...

7.6.11
TSH <.004 (.4-4.0)
Free T4 >6.0 (.89-1.76)
Free T3 23.8 (1.8-4.2)

Endo is starting me on 40mg of meth and we will see where that leads...


----------



## webster2

Yes, good news about your eyes. You have had a tough go of this thyroid business. Your positive attitude radiates through your posts. I am amazed that you have been upright and functioning through this. I wish you the best, and hope things will improve.

Best, Sue


----------



## miltomeal

Were back!!! Thanks Andros and Sue for your thoughts. after a couple of weeks on Methimazole, dose was 40mg for 5 day to 80mgs for 8 days and now back to 40mgs until my next blood test Wednesday.

Results from yesterday show an improvement!!! Finally
TSH <.379 (.38-1.63)
Free T4 3.27 (.82-1.63)
Free T4 8.93 (2.0-4.9)

The FT4 went down about half from (6.96), and the FT3 went down by 2/3 from (25.2). my endo is out of the office for 3 weeks, so this means i will be making the call on where to go with the meds for a little time. and i am hoping to find out that the RAI treatment did not work and the meds are the only reason why my numbers has gone down so we can start to move forward and get myself healthy again!! I do feel better and the emotional aspects is not quite as frequent as it was

One thing about the methimazole.... i am dreaming like never before. I mean mulitple dreams a night that i can remember a little compared to hardly ever remembering a dream for a long time. Does anyone think that graves plays a role in dreaming or is it just the meds?


----------



## webster2

miltomeal said:


> Were back!!! Thanks Andros and Sue for your thoughts. after a couple of weeks on Methimazole, dose was 40mg for 5 day to 80mgs for 8 days and now back to 40mgs until my next blood test Wednesday.
> 
> Results from yesterday show an improvement!!! Finally
> TSH <.379 (.38-1.63)
> Free T4 3.27 (.82-1.63)
> Free T4 8.93 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> The FT4 went down about half from (6.96), and the FT3 went down by 2/3 from (25.2). my endo is out of the office for 3 weeks, so this means i will be making the call on where to go with the meds for a little time. and i am hoping to find out that the RAI treatment did not work and the meds are the only reason why my numbers has gone down so we can start to move forward and get myself healthy again!! I do feel better and the emotional aspects is not quite as frequent as it was
> 
> One thing about the methimazole.... i am dreaming like never before. I mean mulitple dreams a night that i can remember a little compared to hardly ever remembering a dream for a long time. Does anyone think that graves plays a role in dreaming or is it just the meds?


Glad to see your numbers are going in the right direction! Wow, to the dreaming, I have not had a dream in ages and I am on the meth too! I am so glad things are improving for you. Best wishes, and take care!


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> Were back!!! Thanks Andros and Sue for your thoughts. after a couple of weeks on Methimazole, dose was 40mg for 5 day to 80mgs for 8 days and now back to 40mgs until my next blood test Wednesday.
> 
> Results from yesterday show an improvement!!! Finally
> TSH <.379 (.38-1.63)
> Free T4 3.27 (.82-1.63)
> Free T4 8.93 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> The FT4 went down about half from (6.96), and the FT3 went down by 2/3 from (25.2). my endo is out of the office for 3 weeks, so this means i will be making the call on where to go with the meds for a little time. and i am hoping to find out that the RAI treatment did not work and the meds are the only reason why my numbers has gone down so we can start to move forward and get myself healthy again!! I do feel better and the emotional aspects is not quite as frequent as it was
> 
> One thing about the methimazole.... i am dreaming like never before. I mean mulitple dreams a night that i can remember a little compared to hardly ever remembering a dream for a long time. Does anyone think that graves plays a role in dreaming or is it just the meds?


What a difference. If the Methimazole is working and it surely is, that means you are going into REM stage. Enter the dreams. You are having a lot of dreams because they have piled up on you! LOL!!

That was one of the first things I noticed after I had RAI (3 times, no less) was that I had dreams again and a lot of them.

I hope they are all pleasant ones!


----------



## miltomeal

Well, i am in range this week. a first for me! but i am not sure what to do this week. My endo is out of town and my next appt is Aug 4th at 4. i went down from 80mgs of Methimazole to 20mgs this week, and really thought the numbers would go back up. These numbers are moving and so are my emotions, but overall i am feeling ok.

todays tests
TSH <0.379 
Free T4 1.46 (.82-1.63)
Free T3 3.4 (2.0-4.9)

Do you all think i should stop taking Methimazole all together to see what the results from next week are? Maybe RAI has finally showed signs of working? I personally think this is too long of a time for that to happen. any insight would be greatly appreciated

Thanks
steve


----------



## miltomeal

So, my number have come down into the lower end of the ranges. i have stopped taking any anti-thyroid meds to see what they do next. But, i did find out that my goiter is sub sternum, meaning that the thyroid has grown mostly down into my sternum area instead of up and around the neck. How thick is the thyroid? If my number start heading up again in the next couple of weeks, we are looking to go and remove that s.o.b. and am curious if many others have had their thyroids grow down and then had to have them removed?

Thanks all
steve


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> Well, i am in range this week. a first for me! but i am not sure what to do this week. My endo is out of town and my next appt is Aug 4th at 4. i went down from 80mgs of Methimazole to 20mgs this week, and really thought the numbers would go back up. These numbers are moving and so are my emotions, but overall i am feeling ok.
> 
> todays tests
> TSH <0.379
> Free T4 1.46 (.82-1.63)
> Free T3 3.4 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> Do you all think i should stop taking Methimazole all together to see what the results from next week are? Maybe RAI has finally showed signs of working? I personally think this is too long of a time for that to happen. any insight would be greatly appreciated
> 
> Thanks
> steve


Steve; with those numbers, I would not stop the Methimazole. The Methimazole is what got you there. They are looking a whole lot better. FT3 is smack dab in the mid-range of the range given by your lab.

It would be wise to remain on the 20 mgs. per day until you see your doctor.

At this point in time, I think you are dealing with a failed RAI.


----------



## miltomeal

i wanted to give you all an update for the last month and have a question about the pain in my neck...
Started Armour 1 grain on August 12. Doc wanted me to get another blood test a couple of weeks later, so on August 24th my labs still showed my Free T4 falling Free T3 raising, and she doubled the Armour. I started having a lot of my hyper symptoms again, so now i am on 1 grain one day and 2 grains the next, switching everyday. That seems to be ok, but i do have a lot of my hyper symptoms. mostly anxiety, but also lack of concentration, bowel movements, shakiness, emotional distress.

Lab results on August 24
TSH <.01
Free T4 .37 ( .82-1.63)
Free T3 2.1 (2.0-4.9)

more blood work on Sept 7 because my prescription would not be refilled by the pharma and the doc wanted it, so...

sept 7th blood tests
TSH .187 (.380-4.310)
Free T4 .62 (.82-1.63)
Free Te 2.4 (2.0-4.9)

First time ever that my TSH showed anything and i think these labs are working in the right direction. On the same amount of Armour for the next 30 days to see where we are at. Still having the emotional issues, anxiety, etc.

i see the ENT surgeon next Monday for a deviated Septum surgery pre op appt. I am also going to talk to him about my thyroid. I have started Yoga, Qi-Gong and exercising a little, trying not to overdo it. i also see a chiro and physical therapist (started PT June 11) for my back issues i've been dealing with for over 4 years but, i do have this pain in my throat. the pain really began in July after my body started to get better and my throid labs started to fall, but was not present early on in my thyroid treatment process. Most days and it feels like all my issues go to my thyroid and get stuck. and then it spreads out from there. I am also off Ativan. that was difficult, but necessary

Any ideas why my thyroid/throat is hurting as much as it is? swallowing, and talking seem to make it worse. i am not sure if i should take this thing out before the end of the year. I would have to pay my deductible again if i wait until 2012.

thanks for all the support thru this! i have learned so much about myself and the direction in life that i want to pursue!
Steve


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> i wanted to give you all an update for the last month and have a question about the pain in my neck...
> Started Armour 1 grain on August 12. Doc wanted me to get another blood test a couple of weeks later, so on August 24th my labs still showed my Free T4 falling Free T3 raising, and she doubled the Armour. I started having a lot of my hyper symptoms again, so now i am on 1 grain one day and 2 grains the next, switching everyday. That seems to be ok, but i do have a lot of my hyper symptoms. mostly anxiety, but also lack of concentration, bowel movements, shakiness, emotional distress.
> 
> Lab results on August 24
> TSH <.01
> Free T4 .37 ( .82-1.63)
> Free T3 2.1 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> more blood work on Sept 7 because my prescription would not be refilled by the pharma and the doc wanted it, so...
> 
> sept 7th blood tests
> TSH .187 (.380-4.310)
> Free T4 .62 (.82-1.63)
> Free Te 2.4 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> First time ever that my TSH showed anything and i think these labs are working in the right direction. On the same amount of Armour for the next 30 days to see where we are at. Still having the emotional issues, anxiety, etc.
> 
> i see the ENT surgeon next Monday for a deviated Septum surgery pre op appt. I am also going to talk to him about my thyroid. I have started Yoga, Qi-Gong and exercising a little, trying not to overdo it. i also see a chiro and physical therapist (started PT June 11) for my back issues i've been dealing with for over 4 years but, i do have this pain in my throat. the pain really began in July after my body started to get better and my throid labs started to fall, but was not present early on in my thyroid treatment process. Most days and it feels like all my issues go to my thyroid and get stuck. and then it spreads out from there. I am also off Ativan. that was difficult, but necessary
> 
> Any ideas why my thyroid/throat is hurting as much as it is? swallowing, and talking seem to make it worse. i am not sure if i should take this thing out before the end of the year. I would have to pay my deductible again if i wait until 2012.
> 
> thanks for all the support thru this! i have learned so much about myself and the direction in life that i want to pursue!
> Steve


I sure am wondering why you are on Armour at this time?

Really worried about you and wonder where this is going. It is my opinion that you have blocking and binding antibodies and immunoglobulins skewing the FT3 and FT4 results and that your RAI has not been complete.

If I were at the helm, I would take you off all thyroxine replacement for about 6 to 8 weeks and have you get RAIU to "see" what the heck is going on.

From your symptoms, cancer would be a suspicion.

Thyroid cancer symptoms
http://www.cityofhope.org/patient_care/treatments/thyroid-cancer/Pages/symptoms.aspx

Thyroid cancer in patients with hyperthyroidism.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12876418

Hope to hear from you soon.

I would be willing to bet that you have all of these going on.

TSI (thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin)

Trab (Thyroglobulin antibody)

TBII (Thyrotrophin Binding Inhibiting Immunoglobulin)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1969138

But as a "reminder", I am not a doctor. I just find it very peculiar that your TSH is in the basement and your doc would not question why that is so w/your FREES where they are at.


----------



## miltomeal

Andros, thanks for your response. i have never felt 100% that the rai treatment worked completely because of all the stuff going on. there are just so many questions, and the timing of how things are moving has left me more confused. one of the questions in my head is that my Frees did not start moving down until i was on a high dose 80mg of Methimazole daily. Was it timing with the RAI working? or the was irt the meds? They did stay low, indicating hypo for 3-4 weeks after i got off the meds, but it did seem to be leveling off before i started the Armour. 
i did also went to the University of Colorado hospital in denver about a month ago and did have some tests that i hadn't had before and forgot to post. i will have the actual numbers tomorrow, so this is what i remember about the write up. The antibodies (AB?) were gone but the TSI was 88 (And i should have absolutely no TSI in the blood) The endo i saw up there wrote it up that the antibodies are gone and the next to go should be the TSI. He made it sound like this is the way it works and he wanted to shift me to Synthroid. We now have a base for some blood tests in the future, at the very least I did not really like this endo as he was just looking at TSH from my blood tests. and he is teaching this way to his students, i did let the student know my thoughts.
i believe that my endo is thinking that we caught me moving hypo and so she started me on the Armour so i would not go to far hypo and we will see where we are after 6-8 weeks. is this backwards? That seems to be what is going on with a lot these days
Personally, i do feel hyper. i don't have much experience with hypo, but i did notice a change in my symptoms before i went on the armour. the noticed that i was not as emotional, sluggish through the days, and cold spells. These days i feel like i am going until i pass out again, more emotional, anxiety, muscle weakness.

Thank you again for your concern Andros and everyone on this Board! it is wonderful to have a forum to share and read others stories


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> Andros, thanks for your response. i have never felt 100% that the rai treatment worked completely because of all the stuff going on. there are just so many questions, and the timing of how things are moving has left me more confused. one of the questions in my head is that my Frees did not start moving down until i was on a high dose 80mg of Methimazole daily. Was it timing with the RAI working? or the was irt the meds? They did stay low, indicating hypo for 3-4 weeks after i got off the meds, but it did seem to be leveling off before i started the Armour.
> i did also went to the University of Colorado hospital in denver about a month ago and did have some tests that i hadn't had before and forgot to post. i will have the actual numbers tomorrow, so this is what i remember about the write up. The antibodies (AB?) were gone but the TSI was 88 (And i should have absolutely no TSI in the blood) The endo i saw up there wrote it up that the antibodies are gone and the next to go should be the TSI. He made it sound like this is the way it works and he wanted to shift me to Synthroid. We now have a base for some blood tests in the future, at the very least I did not really like this endo as he was just looking at TSH from my blood tests. and he is teaching this way to his students, i did let the student know my thoughts.
> i believe that my endo is thinking that we caught me moving hypo and so she started me on the Armour so i would not go to far hypo and we will see where we are after 6-8 weeks. is this backwards? That seems to be what is going on with a lot these days
> Personally, i do feel hyper. i don't have much experience with hypo, but i did notice a change in my symptoms before i went on the armour. the noticed that i was not as emotional, sluggish through the days, and cold spells. These days i feel like i am going until i pass out again, more emotional, anxiety, muscle weakness.
> 
> Thank you again for your concern Andros and everyone on this Board! it is wonderful to have a forum to share and read others stories


I am so impressed that you "get it"; I have been preaching and preaching about the TSI to little avail. You are so correct; you should not have even the merest inkling of TSI.

Well be very anxious to see the results of those tests and the ranges. Yes, indeed!

If the binding and blocking antibodies are gone, then yes; "perhaps" the TSI is on the way out. These things do wax and wane so it is very hard to "catch" them hard at work.

I am biased but I do believe we have one of the "nicest" and most informative boards going on thyroid disease.

And it is people like you who make it so!


----------



## miltomeal

here are the last 3 lab results. i have been on 1 grain armour one day, then 2 grains the next, switching back and forth since Aug 31.

Lab results on August 24 - this blood test was where the Free t4 was the lowest until last monday. 
TSH <.01
Free T4 .37 ( .82-1.63)
Free T3 2.1 (2.0-4.9)

more blood work on Sept 7 because my prescription would not be refilled by the pharma and the doc wanted it, so...

sept 7th blood tests
TSH .187 (.380-4.310)
Free T4 .62 (.82-1.63)
Free T3 2.4 (2.0-4.9)

October 3
TSH 4.5 (.38-4.31)
Free T4 .31 (.82-1.63)
Free T3 1.3 (2.0-4.9)

i really did not think my numbers would go more hypo because i had upped my Armour dose for the last 5 weeks. also had an ultrasound last Friday becuz of the pain in my neck, but haven't heard back on that.

hope all is well with everyone out there. you are all in my thoughts going through this!


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> here are the last 3 lab results. i have been on 1 grain armour one day, then 2 grains the next, switching back and forth since Aug 31.
> 
> Lab results on August 24 - this blood test was where the Free t4 was the lowest until last monday.
> TSH <.01
> Free T4 .37 ( .82-1.63)
> Free T3 2.1 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> more blood work on Sept 7 because my prescription would not be refilled by the pharma and the doc wanted it, so...
> 
> sept 7th blood tests
> TSH .187 (.380-4.310)
> Free T4 .62 (.82-1.63)
> Free T3 2.4 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> October 3
> TSH 4.5 (.38-4.31)
> Free T4 .31 (.82-1.63)
> Free T3 1.3 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> i really did not think my numbers would go more hypo because i had upped my Armour dose for the last 5 weeks. also had an ultrasound last Friday becuz of the pain in my neck, but haven't heard back on that.
> 
> hope all is well with everyone out there. you are all in my thoughts going through this!


Well, LHM (Lord have mercy!) You are very hypo as you know! Very undermedicated.

Free T3 remains in the basement steady on. Are you taking brand name Armour or are you taking a generic?

Are you consuming soy, L-carnitine, iron or calcium?

Will be most anxious to hear the results of your ultra-sound so do let us know.

Tell us; are you really active physically? I need to find out why you need more Armour. I take 3 1/2 grains a day. I am 68 but I am really really very physically active. Walking all the time, lifting weights, yard and garden work in addition to housework. Wash my own truck......................stuff like that. I am not sedentary at all. Except when I am at the PC <grins.>


----------



## miltomeal

i am not consuming any soy based products, i am taking calcium in the evening, and not sure about iron. one a day vitamins makes a multi without the iodine, so that is what i have been taking for a daily vitamin. No l-carnitine either.

ENT called and said my ultrasound showed nothing unusual. there is some swelling in my lower neck, but he thought that would be normal with what i am going thru. Will be talking to the endo about this next monday when i see her to discuss my dosage. And i am taking the brand name Armour, not a generic.

i am pretty active these days, i do work an office job though. i have put on about 20 pounds since the middle of July(of the 35 or so i lost previously) I am lifting weights 2-4 days a week and my body is starting to become defined. Both my chiro and PT doc say that they think i am doing great and making progress finally. they are both happy to see me add muscle these days in hopes of helping to keep my hips/back/neck in alignment, and i am doing some yoga/Qi-gong/meditation 5-7 days a week, quieting the mind and learning so much about myself that i had misplaced for a while. 
I actually feel pretty good these days. a little tired, but better than before for sure! i am not sure what it is like to feel balanced, but i believe that will come with time. i am going to keep my head up and keep working on myself. this has been a learning experience as never before and the yoga etc. is a lifelong practice for me and the intention for myself is to get stronger every day!!!

i also think that i am more than a little under medicated right now!


----------



## miltomeal

saw the endo yesterday and we are upping the Armour dose to 90mg one day, 120 mg the next and switching every other day (up from 60mg,and 120mg). i have been on 120 mg since the blood tests last Tuesday and have noticed more insomnia this last week, so we decided to take this titration process slowly. we will see what the blood test results show around Thanksgiving!


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> saw the endo yesterday and we are upping the Armour dose to 90mg one day, 120 mg the next and switching every other day (up from 60mg,and 120mg). i have been on 120 mg since the blood tests last Tuesday and have noticed more insomnia this last week, so we decided to take this titration process slowly. we will see what the blood test results show around Thanksgiving!


You might get better results if you took 105 mgs. per day. If you have 1/2 grain tablets, you can split w/a pill splitter.

I say that because the 105 could be the exact correct dose for you and you are unable to experience that plus on the days you take the 120 mg. it might pop you up too much.

Just a humble opinion based on many years of experience w/Armour.

Do not do anything w/o talking to your doctor about it.


----------



## miltomeal

Yeah! it was a personal decision to rotate out the doses for now.

thanks Andros for all the support and knowledge that you spread so unselfishly!


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> Yeah! it was a personal decision to rotate out the doses for now.
> 
> thanks Andros for all the support and knowledge that you spread so unselfishly!


You are ever so welcome. You made my heart smile. That is the pay back!

Let us know. Consistency is "very" important.


----------



## fiesta_greet

Hi Miltomeal,
What is the reason for varying the dosis so much between 90 and 120, indeed? I agree with Andros, and I feel best when I take the exact same medication every single day. 
If you do that for a long time, you get a good constant level, and an occasional dip by skipping a day (which happens to me every now and then) won't be felt so acutely.
That is said by someone who hasn't got a thyroid gland for the first and last 36 years of my life. Nothing better than stability. I wouldn't dream of varying my dosis day by day and having to think: 'Wait, what did I take yesterday again?' OR feeling bad one day, good and energetic the other day. Of course in my case, the doctors look ONLY at my TSH levels to determine whether I'm on the correct dose.
Good luck!


----------



## miltomeal

As of right now, i am varying my dose every day because there has been no consistency in anything dealing with my thyroid over the last few months, each time that i have tried to stabilize on one dose, either a low or high dose, it seems to have more of a effect on me mentally. I just seems right for now. I am not tired, less anxious and feeling bad one day, and then feeling better the next because i have taken a higher dose this day. I do not know where this is leading currently, but i do know that with my practice of yoga, qi-gong, and deep breathing that if i do feel a little off, i can practice and quiet my mind, body and spirit and will feel better. Fiesta Greet, Thanks for your input and concern.

A little update from my ultrasound. Finally talked to the ENT who ordered the test and he states that part of the thyroid is still showing signs consistent with Graves. i.e. increased blood flow to that area of the thyroid. and other parts show normal blood flow. i didn't get into if other parts were dead, i do know that the thyroid has shrunk in size from just feeling the area by the endo and ENT, but i am getting a copy for myself and to my endo to get her advise next month after another set of blood tests.

hope all is well for everyone out there dealing with thyroid issues :hugs:


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> As of right now, i am varying my dose every day because there has been no consistency in anything dealing with my thyroid over the last few months, each time that i have tried to stabilize on one dose, either a low or high dose, it seems to have more of a effect on me mentally. I just seems right for now. I am not tired, less anxious and feeling bad one day, and then feeling better the next because i have taken a higher dose this day. I do not know where this is leading currently, but i do know that with my practice of yoga, qi-gong, and deep breathing that if i do feel a little off, i can practice and quiet my mind, body and spirit and will feel better. Fiesta Greet, Thanks for your input and concern.
> 
> A little update from my ultrasound. Finally talked to the ENT who ordered the test and he states that part of the thyroid is still showing signs consistent with Graves. i.e. increased blood flow to that area of the thyroid. and other parts show normal blood flow. i didn't get into if other parts were dead, i do know that the thyroid has shrunk in size from just feeling the area by the endo and ENT, but i am getting a copy for myself and to my endo to get her advise next month after another set of blood tests.
> 
> hope all is well for everyone out there dealing with thyroid issues :hugs:


Good to hear from you and it looks like things are moving right along. No one in this world knows your body better than you do. Listen to it; I agree with that 100%


----------



## miltomeal

Thanks Andros!! it definately helps to hear some support about the direction i am heading with this. there are days that i do have some doubts, but i am much better these days than when i was so hyper a couple of months ago and have learned to pay attention, listen to and learn from my body, and to trust that intuition.


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> Thanks Andros!! it definately helps to hear some support about the direction i am heading with this. there are days that i do have some doubts, but i am much better these days than when i was so hyper a couple of months ago and have learned to pay attention, listen to and learn from my body, and to trust that intuition.


Always!!! I am a big believer in intuition (the first one); after that we have a tendency to rationalize the first instinct away. Human nature, I guess?

Mind control is in fact very important to recovery.................from anything that might come down our pathway.

Combine that with modern medicine and alternative medicine, you've got a winner!


----------



## miltomeal

it has been 6 weeks or so since my meds were upped to 90mg/120mg daily switch of Armour and here are my last blood tests from Friday...

blood tests from 11/17/2011
TSH 4.275 (.38-4.310)
FT4 .53 (.82-1.63)
FT3 2.8 (2.0-4.9)

prior tests from 10/3/2011
TSH 4.5 (.38-4.31)
Free T4 .31 (.82-1.63)
Free T3 1.3 (2.0-4.9)

they went up a little from the prior test and we have increased my Armour to 5 days of 120 mg and 2 days of 90mg. I am leary of going to 120mg everyday because of past experience, so i think that this is a good, slow move to work on balancing myself out.

Questions: 
Does your TSH number reflex directly to either of the Frees?

When your thyroid is different sizes on the left/right, has anyone heard of this impacting a persons swallowing? a persons throat is twisted?

Happy Thanksgiving all! hope everyone has safe travels!


----------



## miltomeal

blood tests from 11/17/2011
TSH 4.275 (.38-4.310)
FT4 .53 (.82-1.63)
FT3 2.8 (2.0-4.9)

Blood tests from 1/17/2012
TSH 4.3 (.38-4.310)
FT4 .51 (.82-1.63)
FT3 3.1 (2.0-4.9)

was on 6 days of 2 grains Armour, 1 day 1 1/2 grain. which we upped to after the November tests. Endo and my thinking are the thyroid is still dying off after rai on 5/6/2011. So we upped my replacement meds yet again....

4 days-2 1/2 grains
3 days-2 grains

the best part of this is the endo told me to do what i felt i need to do with the meds, but be consistent and slow.

biggest struggle these days is muscular. i think this may be because my numbers didn't really change and the mental issues somewhat went away during the last couple of months...patience, patience, patience, the body cannot heal properly yet!

any thoughts?


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> blood tests from 11/17/2011
> TSH 4.275 (.38-4.310)
> FT4 .53 (.82-1.63)
> FT3 2.8 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> Blood tests from 1/17/2012
> TSH 4.3 (.38-4.310)
> FT4 .51 (.82-1.63)
> FT3 3.1 (2.0-4.9)
> 
> was on 6 days of 2 grains Armour, 1 day 1 1/2 grain. which we upped to after the November tests. Endo and my thinking are the thyroid is still dying off after rai on 5/6/2011. So we upped my replacement meds yet again....
> 
> 4 days-2 1/2 grains
> 3 days-2 grains
> 
> the best part of this is the endo told me to do what i felt i need to do with the meds, but be consistent and slow.
> 
> biggest struggle these days is muscular. i think this may be because my numbers didn't really change and the mental issues somewhat went away during the last couple of months...patience, patience, patience, the body cannot heal properly yet!
> 
> any thoughts?


Your labs are looking better. Target getting the TSH down more and FT3 up a bit more. Slow and easy wins the day just as the doctor has suggested.

Electrolyte replacement is needed, I am thinking. I have taken these for years. I have no vested interest in the product other than they are "great" for me!! I lift weights and do cardio every day so they keep me in good stead.

http://www.vitaminexpress.com/product_info.php/manufacturers_id/20/products_id/155

The thing is it is hard to find a good replacement that has all the electrolytes. If you only take potassium for example, it throws the other electrolytes out of whack.

Also, remember that there is a lag time between the FREES and the TSH. Don't jump the guns on titrating upward until you get more labs say in 6 to 7 weeks.

Frees are looking good and you don't have far to go so you don't want to mess it up.

FT4 will remain low and that is normal and as it should be when taking Armour. FT3 would probably be best somewhere above the mid-range and maybe target TSH @ around 1 or less.


----------



## miltomeal

Thanks Andros! especially for the link for electrolytes.... i believe the hell my body went through this last year has depleted me of a lot of essential vitamins, minerals, and other stuff that my body needs. I've already started taking Calm Magnesium, more Omega 3, b complex, getting outside in the cold for some sun and Vitamin d, plus the multi, and eating well!!!,etc. Trying to build all of these back up in my system and continue to look for more suggestions to help me out.

I am not planning on doing much with the meds the next 2 months or so... i can already feel the difference after 4 days on 2 1/2 grains.

take care!


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> Thanks Andros! especially for the link for electrolytes.... i believe the hell my body went through this last year has depleted me of a lot of essential vitamins, minerals, and other stuff that my body needs. I've already started taking Calm Magnesium, more Omega 3, b complex, getting outside in the cold for some sun and Vitamin d, plus the multi, and eating well!!!,etc. Trying to build all of these back up in my system and continue to look for more suggestions to help me out.
> 
> I am not planning on doing much with the meds the next 2 months or so... i can already feel the difference after 4 days on 2 1/2 grains.
> 
> take care!


You have made wise supplement choices. Our body's have become depleted from autoimmune.

Getting out in the sun is important for many reasons. For me it is a spiritual experience amongst other things.

Did you know that people who refrain from the sun are more prone to cancer than those who moderately sun themselves? It happens to be true.

You are quite welcome; I am so happy that you are doing well.


----------



## miltomeal

Andros~ and anyone else reading this thread...would you have any suggestions as to what other supplements to look into adding at this time?

I eat a few brazil nuts everyday for selenium. My Iron levels are also in good shape. i am taking the magnesium, omegas, b complex, Vitamin D with getting outside, and eating a well balanced diet. I really didn't look into the electrolytes until you referred me to them, cuz i was just thinking of gatorade. Yuck!

After having all essential nutrients taking a hit with Graves, we all really need to replenish and get these to a better/higher level that won't be affected as much/fast if there is a break.

Thanks again! :hugs:


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> Andros~ and anyone else reading this thread...would you have any suggestions as to what other supplements to look into adding at this time?
> 
> I eat a few brazil nuts everyday for selenium. My Iron levels are also in good shape. i am taking the magnesium, omegas, b complex, Vitamin D with getting outside, and eating a well balanced diet. I really didn't look into the electrolytes until you referred me to them, cuz i was just thinking of gatorade. Yuck!
> 
> After having all essential nutrients taking a hit with Graves, we all really need to replenish and get these to a better/higher level that won't be affected as much/fast if there is a break.
> 
> Thanks again! :hugs:


I am a huge proponent of CoQ10. Also, I use a lot of Tumeric and use a heaping tsp. of cinnamon powder in my yogurt or oatmeal or unsweetened apple sauce for breakfast to stabilize the glucose.


----------



## miltomeal

and the one thing i forget about every single day at least one time is PATIENCE!!! I know that my body still is not able to heal properly yet.

:anim_55: I have to remind myself of this every single day! LOL

thanks!


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> and the one thing i forget about every single day at least one time is PATIENCE!!! I know that my body still is not able to heal properly yet.
> 
> :anim_55: I have to remind myself of this every single day! LOL
> 
> thanks!


Too funny but also too true! ROLF! Use "Sticky Notes!" Ha, ha!


----------



## miltomeal

well, it has been two months and the newest blood test results are not looking too bad...except that i am wondering why my Frees are so low with my TSH getting close to the 1.0 results.

From 3.23.12 - 2:30pm test
TSH 1.32 (.38 - 4.310)
Free T4 .82 (.82 - 1.63)
Free T3 2.7 (2.0 - 4.9)

i was on Armour 150 mg 4 days/ 120mg 3 days...so there have been a couple of changes.
1) i am trying a consistent dose of Armour 135mg (first time on a consistent dose)
2) taking the Armour at 5:45am before some stretching/yoga before getting ready for work - used to take it around 2:30am. changed this because i was still tired/exhausted in the evenings.

Overall, struggling with these little changes, but hopefully this will help in the long run - my body told me it was finally time to try the consistent dose

Did have some more tests, but don't have the results yet...still doing well taking my supplements

The journey is long, but you will get better!
thanks for all the help and support! Milton


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> well, it has been two months and the newest blood test results are not looking too bad...except that i am wondering why my Frees are so low with my TSH getting close to the 1.0 results.
> 
> From 3.23.12 - 2:30pm test
> TSH 1.32 (.38 - 4.310)
> Free T4 .82 (.82 - 1.63)
> Free T3 2.7 (2.0 - 4.9)
> 
> i was on Armour 150 mg 4 days/ 120mg 3 days...so there have been a couple of changes.
> 1) i am trying a consistent dose of Armour 135mg (first time on a consistent dose)
> 2) taking the Armour at 5:45am before some stretching/yoga before getting ready for work - used to take it around 2:30am. changed this because i was still tired/exhausted in the evenings.
> 
> Overall, struggling with these little changes, but hopefully this will help in the long run - my body told me it was finally time to try the consistent dose
> 
> Did have some more tests, but don't have the results yet...still doing well taking my supplements
> 
> The journey is long, but you will get better!
> thanks for all the help and support! Milton


Milton; glad you are on 135 mgs. of Armour but looking at the FREE T3 which is very important at this stage, you are undermedicated. FREE T3 is best for most of us @ 75% of the range given by your lab. This is your active hormone so you have to feel like you are dragging! Do you?

I am on 3 1/2 grains/210 mgs. per day. I am active but not beyond my personal set point. That is where I leveled off at. 69 year old female.

So...................I do hope your doctor will continue to titrate you up until your FT3 is where "you" feel excellent. That is what we call euthyroid.

Dr. Mercola (FREES)
http://www.mercola.com/Article/hypothyroid/diagnosis_comp.htm


----------



## miltomeal

I was looking through my last couple of blood tests and noticed that the previous tests were all conducted in the morning. My last test was a 10:50am (Free T3 was 3.1) compared to 2:30pm for this one (my Free T3 was 2.7)

I know T3 has a short half life, and i kind of think this is why my Free T3 was lower on this last blood test.?.

I really have been feeling well, i think this latest change really is affecting me more because i have changed the time that i take the Armour, and am at work less than 2 hours after taking it. We will see i a couple of months with the next tests.


----------



## miltomeal

Good day all!

It has been awhile since i posted on this thread, but the titration process really isn't going well. A short history - Graves, RAI 12.6 MCI May 2011, started Armour August 2011 and felt real well in early 2012 on 120/150 Armour switching daily. Tried to be consistent with 135mg daily then 120mg daily and now i am on 90mg daily with symptoms. Endo was ready to send me to surgeon in Dec, but i wanted to give this some more time before i did another RAI or surgery.
I have blood work on Friday and i will post results then but i have a question...

Could someone explain why certain people will try to suppress their TSH after treatment?

If i am considering another treatment, should i have an RAIU scan or ultrasound again first. Did have an ultrasound in Sept 2011 where the doc said my thyroid was still consistent with graves.

Thanks all!


----------



## Andros

miltomeal said:


> Good day all!
> 
> It has been awhile since i posted on this thread, but the titration process really isn't going well. A short history - Graves, RAI 12.6 MCI May 2011, started Armour August 2011 and felt real well in early 2012 on 120/150 Armour switching daily. Tried to be consistent with 135mg daily then 120mg daily and now i am on 90mg daily with symptoms. Endo was ready to send me to surgeon in Dec, but i wanted to give this some more time before i did another RAI or surgery.
> I have blood work on Friday and i will post results then but i have a question...
> 
> Could someone explain why certain people will try to suppress their TSH after treatment?
> 
> If i am considering another treatment, should i have an RAIU scan or ultrasound again first. Did have an ultrasound in Sept 2011 where the doc said my thyroid was still consistent with graves.
> 
> Thanks all!


It may be the best choice over all to request RAIU prior to RAI. You never know................................

Actually, I think it would be unconscionable to do RAI of the thyroid w/o RAIU first and foremost.

Suppressed TSH helps to prevent cancer from returning and if the person has a lot of antibodies, it helps to keep them quiet as well.

For instance; I have Lupus and we have found that by keeping TSH suppressed the Anti-dsDNA is barely and sometimes not even detectable at all. Whereas at one time, they were through the roof!


----------



## miltomeal

The intended results from RAI is to kill of the thyroid. 
I believe that mine is still somewhat alive. I am hypo when i am not taking meds, but still have thyroid hormones in the blood, and when i took some krill oil for two weeks, i could feel it affects of this and abruptly stopped and the symptoms got better very fast. Also, i get the heart beat in my throat when i forget to take my hormones.

Should i try to balance with a thyroid like this? continue to be patient and hope for the best...or just try to move on a have it removed while i have insurance?

If i went in for another RAIU, do i need to be off the Synthroid for an extended period of time?

Thanks for the thoughts... 
this is a tougher decision than i thought it would be!


----------

