# muzzy feeling from Hashimoto's?



## cgrass (Jan 30, 2010)

For the past couple years, I've felt chronically muzzy. Not awake, low on energy, not thinking well. It may be rhinitis, because sometimes I have a bit of postnasal drip. But I don't have an obviously stuffy nose. It's worse in the morning, I wake up really out of it. 
Has anybody had similar symptoms from Hashimoto's? 
I was diagnosed with low-grade Hashimoto's. I've been taking Synthroid, 75 mcg/day. My T4 and T3 are now low-normal and thyroid peroxidase antibodies are about 90.
I have a lot of allergies but my hunt for an allergy trigger has been in vain, and my efforts to treat it as allergic rhinitis haven't worked (steroid nasal spray, antihistamine nasal spray). 
There IS something called "hormonal rhinitis" that's said to come from hypothyroidism. But I don't know if you have to be severely hypothyroid to have it. 
Laura


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

cgrass said:


> For the past couple years, I've felt chronically muzzy. Not awake, low on energy, not thinking well. It may be rhinitis, because sometimes I have a bit of postnasal drip. But I don't have an obviously stuffy nose. It's worse in the morning, I wake up really out of it.
> Has anybody had similar symptoms from Hashimoto's?
> I was diagnosed with low-grade Hashimoto's. I've been taking Synthroid, 75 mcg/day. My T4 and T3 are now low-normal and thyroid peroxidase antibodies are about 90.
> I have a lot of allergies but my hunt for an allergy trigger has been in vain, and my efforts to treat it as allergic rhinitis haven't worked (steroid nasal spray, antihistamine nasal spray).
> Laura


Hi there, Laura and welcome to the board!

So tell me, when is the last time the above labs were done? Did you get the TSH and if so, what was it?

Low normal can mean a lot of things but we must have the results and the ranges in order to help assess what is going on.

Do you have sleep apnea also? Has your doctor ever run FREE T3 and FREE T4 labs on you? The FREE is the unbound hormone available for cellular uptake. The Totals are complicated in that this involves bound, unbound and reverse hormone (rT3, rT4) therefore making it near impossible to tell how much unbound hormone is circulating.


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## cgrass (Jan 30, 2010)

Andros said:


> So tell me, when is the last time the above labs were done? Did you get the TSH and if so, what was it?
> Do you have sleep apnea also? Has your doctor ever run FREE T3 and FREE T4 labs on you? The FREE is the unbound hormone available for cellular uptake. The Totals are complicated in that this involves bound, unbound and reverse hormone (rT3, rT4) therefore making it near impossible to tell how much unbound hormone is circulating.


Yes I got labs recently. 
Free T3 1.97
Free T4 0.8
TSH 2.73
Thyroid peroxidase AB 90

I don't have sleep apnea. They upped my Synthroid to 100 mcg/day, but I haven't started taking the higher dose yet, I'm still at 75 mcg/day. 
There's a good deal online about hypothyroidism causing rhinitis. Perhaps it's aggravating chronic allergic rhinitis, for me. 
Laura


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

cgrass said:


> Yes I got labs recently.
> Free T3 1.97
> Free T4 0.8
> TSH 2.73
> ...


W/o the ranges for the Frees, it is hard to tell exactly what is going on but I have to tell you that most of us would still be feeling pretty hypo w/ TSH @ 2.73.

The majority of us feel best w/ TSH down to 1 or a bit less and the FT3 and FT4 @ mid-range or a bit higher.

So, getting the TSH down may help some of those lingering annoying symptoms such as the rhinitis.

Ever since I started taking CoQ10 many many years ago, my allergies have completely gone away. You may wish to research this enzyme for your own use.

Is there a special reason you are waiting to take the 100 mcg. of Synthroid?


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## cgrass (Jan 30, 2010)

Andros said:


> The majority of us feel best w/ TSH down to 1 or a bit less and the FT3 and FT4 @ mid-range or a bit higher.


They said
Free T3 1.97 Reference range: 2-4 
Free T4 0.80 Reference range: 0.75-1.54



> So, getting the TSH down may help some of those lingering annoying symptoms such as the rhinitis.


It's not just a lingering annoying symptom, it's really debilitating. I feel sick. The sick feeling is vaguely in my head and I have a little postnasal drip.

I read something online about high TSH being the cause of hormonal rhinitis. My TSH is within the reference range they gave, though.

So you think I might just need more Synthroid? I've been given the impression that I barely need it at all. I saw an endocrinologist who called me "euthyroid", even though my T4 was slightly below the reference range at the time. The family doctor is the one who's been prescribing the Synthroid.



> Ever since I started taking CoQ10 many many years ago, my allergies have completely gone away. You may wish to research this enzyme for your own use.
> 
> Is there a special reason you are waiting to take the 100 mcg. of Synthroid?


Just using up my previous prescription. I'll start the 100 mcg in about a week. 
Thanks,
Laura


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

cgrass said:


> They said
> Free T3 1.97 Reference range: 2-4
> Free T4 0.80 Reference range: 0.75-1.54
> 
> ...


That reference range for the Free T3 does not look right to me. It usually looks like this................... FT3 = 230-420 pg/d;

Anyway, the FT4 is almost to the bottom of the reference range and with your TSH @ 2.73, I personally think you are undermedicated.

Interestingly, many strange things clear up when the patient is on just the right amount of thyroxine replacement for their individual needs.

Euthyroid: The state of having normal thyroid gland function. As opposed to hyperthyroid (overactive thyroid) and hypothyroid (underactive thyroid).

So if you feel well, then yes, you are euthyroid. And it is possible that the rhinitis has nothing to do w/your thyroid management. Things have to be ruled in or ruled out. For example, has anyone ever done a swab/slide for pathology of nasal discharge to see if it is gram positive, gram negative or fungal?


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## cgrass (Jan 30, 2010)

Andros said:


> That reference range for the Free T3 does not look right to me. It usually looks like this................... FT3 = 230-420 pg/d;


The units are pg/ml. So in units of pg/d, my free T3 is 197. 


> Anyway, the FT4 is almost to the bottom of the reference range and with your TSH @ 2.73, I personally think you are undermedicated.


This is good feedback. I was asking the doctor to increase my Synthroid until I could get T3 and T4 in the middle of the range, but only because it sounded like it might help. It's good to get some confirmation for that idea. 
I guess they just haven't finished adjusting the Synthroid.

By the way, my T4 went down and my TSH was up slightly from the previous lab test, even though I'm on more meds. So it looks a bit like my Hashimoto's is getting worse. 


> For example, has anyone ever done a swab/slid for pathology of nasal discharge to see if it is gram positive, gram negative or fungal?


I don't have nasal discharge. I think my sick feeling is rhinitis because vaguely it seems to be located in my head, and I have a little bit of postnasal drip at times.

In the winter of 2007-2008 I was sick for 5 months, and it felt rather similar to how I feel now. I was on months of antibiotics but they didn't help. Finally they gave me a steroid nasal spray and I felt more or less better for months, then I came down sick again. After spending months looking for an allergy trigger, and looking for some food sensitivity, I went to the doctor and got a lot of blood tests, and they found out I have Hashimoto's. I probably have celiac disease (which is related to Hashimoto's). Food sensitivities might cause rhinitis.

So, so far as I know, it's probably allergies, Hashimoto's or a food reaction or some combination.

Anyway I wondered whether other people have rhinitis associated with Hashimoto's. Do you have to have really high TSH to get rhinitis from it? They told me the reference range for TSH is 0.5 to 6 mIU/L, and mine is 2.73.

But I've read elsewhere that actually 2.73 is high.

Laura


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

cgrass said:


> The units are pg/ml. So in units of pg/d, my free T3 is 197.
> 
> This is good feedback. I was asking the doctor to increase my Synthroid until I could get T3 and T4 in the middle of the range, but only because it sounded like it might help. It's good to get some confirmation for that idea.
> I guess they just haven't finished adjusting the Synthroid.
> ...


AACE recommends that the TSH range be 0.3 to 3.0; Canada is even lower than that and as I said, most of us think we feel best @ 1 or less "provided" the Frees are in line.

There are many health issues that are co-morbid to thyroid disease. I could not agree more.

I did not have Hashi's so perhaps some of the other posters can comment about the rhinitis.

Hang in there with us; others will be around.


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