# Newbie & So Sad



## 2BeOrNot2Be (Jan 22, 2011)

Hi Everyone! I'm a 40 yr old female and was diagnosed with Hashimoto's in October 2010. Prior to that, I had seen my primary physician because I felt so OFF, plus over the course of two years, I had magically gained 20 lbs, when nothing about my diet had changed. My doc sent me to an endocrinologist who ran a lot of tests, including thyroid, cortisols, adrenal, etc. All my thyroid tests came back "normal", but she found that I was very low in vitamin D and I started taking 50,000IU a week. After a month, my D level was back to normal, but I still felt awful.

My symptoms were:
-Mind fog
-Depression and anxiety attacks
-Joint aches
-Never felt rested upon awakening no matter how long I slept
-Dizziness/lightheadedness
-Shallow breathing; felt like I wasn't getting enough oxygen
-No sex drive
-Hair loss
-Hair growth on body
-Crazy acne on my face when i never had acne before

I couldn't understand how my test results could be normal while I felt so terrible. I resembled the feeling to when I had given birth to my child. After my child was 1 year old, I was still unable to lose weight, had baby blues, etc., and my doctor diagnosed me with Post Partum Hypothyroiditis. She said to wait it out a bit more without giving me medicine. She was right. After about a couple of months, I was back to normal. That was 7 years ago.

In Oct 2010 I decided to see a Naturopathic doctor because for 6 months prior to that I had gone completely organic, grass fed, and raw with all of my food, so I thought perhaps I could find an answer to my misery the natural way.

The naturopathic doc reviewed my thyroid tests that the endo had taken and immediately saw that my antibodies were high and that meant I had Hashimoto's, especially since I had all the symptoms. She said conventional doctors wait until the thyroid is damaged before they begin treating. She immediately put me on 65mg (1 grain) of Naturethroid. In just a few days I began feeling so much better. My mood had improved, my weight started going down. I felt alive again.

2 weeks after taking Naturethroid, my symptoms began coming back with a vengence including chills/fever that would come and go during the day. They increased me to 1.5 grains. It didn't help. A week later I had called in and a colleague who works with my doc recommended I increase it to 2 grains. I felt better, but not 100%. I had a follow up with my doc two weeks after and she wasn't thrilled with my "high" dose of 2 grains, and said she didn't want my thyroid to stop doing its job, so she brought me down to 1.5 grains. After a day or two, I felt the way I did prior to ever taking thyroid meds. I couldn't function at all. So back to 2 grains I went, and this time she wanted to keep me there for 6 weeks and run new tests to make sure things were normal.

It's been 5 weeks taking 2 grains. I only feel 80% better, and my weight hasn't budged down at all. I feel what I can only describe as "congested". I should also add that during this time, I have been completely gluten-free. I was also tested for food allergies, and she even had my stool tested. Those came back normal.

Okay, sorry for the novel, but I just feel so helpless. My doc said she doesn't intend on having me take thyroid meds for the rest of my life, and she's concerned that 2 grains is high. I never have had any hyperthyroid symptoms indicating too much meds.

Here are my numbers:

June 2010
-TSH - 3.753 
-Free T4 - 1.04
-TPO - 346
*This was when the endo did my tests and said it was all normal

October 2010
-TSH - 1.170 (0.5-4.0)
-Free T3 - 2.57 (2.0-4.9)
-Reverse T3 - 268 (90-350)
-DHEAS - 245.7 (40-217)
*This is before starting Naturethroid

November 2010
-Free T3 - 4.86 (2-4.9)
-Free T4 - 1.27 (.75-1.54
-Free Testosterone - 1.16 (0.10-0.85)
*This is after being on med for one month

So what happens now? Do I up my dosage? I feel like I need just a bit more, but my blood test next week will show how I've been doing on 2 grains, which my doc feels is high. Isn't it difficult to treat Hashi's based on blood results alone, and that symptoms should greatly be taken into consideration?

Other peculiar symptoms I have is like a cricket sound in my left ear that comes and goes. And this insane itching on my thighs that kicks in at about 8 at night. I saw my derm, there's nothing she could find. I think it's related to my hashi's.

Again, I apologize for the novel, but from reading so many posts, I see that you are all so knowledgable and have a lot of experience with this. Thank you SO much if you've read this far. I would appreciate any input you have.


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## lainey (Aug 26, 2010)

First, hello and welcome.

I am looking at these labs:

November 2010
-Free T3 - 4.86 (2-4.9)
-Free T4 - 1.27 (.75-1.54
-Free Testosterone - 1.16 (0.10-0.85)
*This is after being on med for one month

A couple of things:

First of all, on thyroid replacement that contains T3 such as naturethroid or Armour, the following tests must be run: TSH, Free T4 and Free T3. There is no TSH here. When taking T3 medications, there is a tendency for the TSH to be suppressed, T4 to be on the lower side, and the T3 to be high. However, your T3 is very high, nearly out of range. Ideally, this should be around the midpoint of the range, and yours is very high. High T3 will give you symptoms that mimic hypo such as brain fog, fatigue and weight gain, as well as symptoms of hyper so.......you really look close to being over medicated.

There are a couple of things that you should be aware of concerning medications that contain T3, which is the active thyroid hormone. T4 only medications mimic the body's process more naturally--your thyroid produces T4, and it is converted in the cells to T3, which is the hormone that gives you energy. It does it at a specific rate and ratio. Medications such as Naturethroid and Amour contain T3 in a ratio that is higher than the body, resulting in labs that are slightly "off" in that the T3 will appear high and T4 and TSH appear low. Because of the T3 dosing is a little trickier, you have to monitor the T3. The plus is, of course as you reported, that patients tend to "feel" better from the extra T3 a lot faster than if they were taking a traditional T4 medication. However, too much T3, which is what you have, is not good either. Your doctor is likely quite correct that 2 grains is too much--it is quite a lot for many patients.

That high testosterone may be part of the problem (and the dr. probably ran that after seeing the high DHES the month before):
http://www.ehow.com/facts_4962570_causes-high-testosterone-women_.html
Weight gain and acne, as well as hair growth (usually hirsutism, which is a male pattern hair growth) and hair loss can all be attributed to this. You really need a full work up for your female hormones, and testing for polycystic ovarian syndrome. The insulin resistance associated with this could be a big player in your weight problem.

Many people who are low on vitamin D tend to keep going back there. You should have this tested regularly to monitor this. Ferritin and vitamin B are also crucial--if you haven't had these levels checked you should, because low amounts can cause your symptoms also.

People tend to think that they will lose weight when they take thyroid hormone. Weight loss will occur normally once the patient is euthyroid--that means, their TSH and free T4 and T3 are at healthy levels. You would be amazed at the number of hyperthyroid patients that complain of weight gain--so really, it is going to be about finding the balance on that one, and following healthy exercise and diet guidelines.

If you haven't had a sonongram of your thyroid, you should, to check for structural changes. Your antibodies also need to be checked periodically.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

2BeOrNot2Be said:


> Hi Everyone! I'm a 40 yr old female and was diagnosed with Hashimoto's in October 2010. Prior to that, I had seen my primary physician because I felt so OFF, plus over the course of two years, I had magically gained 20 lbs, when nothing about my diet had changed. My doc sent me to an endocrinologist who ran a lot of tests, including thyroid, cortisols, adrenal, etc. All my thyroid tests came back "normal", but she found that I was very low in vitamin D and I started taking 50,000IU a week. After a month, my D level was back to normal, but I still felt awful.
> 
> My symptoms were:
> -Mind fog
> ...


Hi there! You are in a good place so dry those tears!! Firstly, I see no TSH for the most recent labs in November. It is so important to keep all the little ducks in a row re TSH, FREE T4 and FREE T3.

Secondly, what antibodies' besides TPO were you tested for and how high were they? Your TPO is up there, that is for sure and you are having great fluctuations in your labs.

TSH is nocturnal and it is "possible" that you are having a thyroxine dump during the night which may be causing the itching. What time do you take your Naturethroid?

The only true confirmation of Hashimoto's that I am aware of is is FNA (fine needle aspiration) is done and the pathologist identifies Hurthle Cells which are indigenous to Hashimoto's.

Have you had ultra-sound or uptake scan of your thyroid? Do you know if you have nodules or not?

The other thing is that in some patients Vitamin D is not a good thing. Please read; this may be why you felt worse.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-04/arf-vdm040809.php

And lastly (for now), it is my humble opinion that your doctor is not titrating your Naturethroid properly. Most are started on 1/4 grain to 1/2 grain (depending on whether they have myxedema or not),the patient is to lab every 8 weeks and the med is to be titrated upward (if labs and clinical evaluation indicate) by 1/4 to 1/2 grain until such time as the patient is feeling totally well (euthyroid.)

To be honest w/you; I am not exactly sure you are hypo thyroid. If you could get TSI lab, that would rule it in or out.

Normally, there is no TSI in the blood. If TSI is found in the blood, this indicates that the thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin is the cause of the of a person's hyperthyroidism.

http://www.medicineonline.com/topics/t/2/Thyroid-Stimulating-Immunoglobulin/TSI.html

I am suspicious for more than one reason so it must be ruled out.

Glad you found us.


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## 2BeOrNot2Be (Jan 22, 2011)

Thank you lainey and Andros for your replies! I reread what you both said a few times and now I'm really confused! Both of you make such valid points.

I had to go in today to get my bloodwork done, TSH, T4 and T3, and next week will be meeting with the doc for a follow up.

I have not had a sonogram of my thyroid. The doc never mentioned it. My Ferritin and B levels are normal.

I take my meds first thing in the morning, one hour prior to eating. The thyroxine dump sounds like it could be it. It is the intense crazy itching on my thighs, especially the back with no outside trigger.

I pulled up some earlier TSH results for 2009 below and it's all over the place. During this time I was not on any meds. But during this time my free testosterone was also high.

03/2009 TSH 2.5
08/2009 TSH 1.90
06/2010 TSH 3.7
10/2010 TSH 1.1

I've asked both my doctors about PCOS, and both have ruled it out. The first doc did an ultrasound and found no cysts. I had also had glucose tolerance testing done and that was normal, too.

I have been confused for the last year with each doctor saying something. I am now confused about even having Hashimoto's. Maybe it is in fact my testosterone levels that are causing this. My female hormones were checked and my testosterone was high, estrogen was normal, and progesterone was low. She had me use progesterone cream which I did for a month, felt no difference and stopped.

Yes, the Naturethroid did alleviate many of my symptoms, but I still have the high testosterone symptoms. Perhaps I have both problems.

I will ask about the TSI test. I'm sure it's another expensive test not covered by insurance, hooray!

Next week will shed a lot of light on what's going on. The only symptoms I have left sound like they're testosterone related and we had briefly discussed this at our last appt. I just want an answer and want to be able to know what's going on. I want to feel like my old self again.

Thank you both again, and I will let you know what happens. Your responses meant SO MUCH to me!


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## lavender (Jul 13, 2010)

The presence of TPO antibodies June 2010 shows that there is an autoimmune attack on your thyroid, aka hashimotos. That would explain your fluctuating TSH level prior to treatment. Hashi's makes the thyroid bounce around.

Testosterone may be the issue at hand for the moment, but you definitely have a thyoird issue as well, in my opinion.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

2BeOrNot2Be said:


> Thank you lainey and Andros for your replies! I reread what you both said a few times and now I'm really confused! Both of you make such valid points.
> 
> I had to go in today to get my bloodwork done, TSH, T4 and T3, and next week will be meeting with the doc for a follow up.
> 
> ...


There are many causes for high testosterone. Menopause is one. Here are some others.

Polycystic Ovarian Syndromes, Ovarian tumor, Adrenal Gland Disorders, Gigantism, Conn's Syndrome, Dwarfism, and Cushing's are disorders that can cause high testosterone levels in women. Medications may also be responsible for high testosterone levels in women, these include, Steroid abuse and Dilantin. Dilantin is a drug used to treat people who have epilepsy.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1960072/the_effects_on_women_of_high_testosterone.html

You have a plan and it sounds encouraging. I hope you keep us in the loop here with all that as we all care very much that you get to the bottom of this and get on the healing pathway.

I personally prefer to not mess around with HRT. Mother Nature is a very very wise lady.


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## 2BeOrNot2Be (Jan 22, 2011)

I went to the doctor today for my followup. My labs came back as follows:

TSH - 0.047 (0.5-4.0)
T3 - 5.18 (2.0-4.9)
T4 - 1.50 (0.75-1.54)

So it seems my TSH is shot and my T3 high. This after being on 2 grains of Naturethroid for the past 6 weeks. Along with following a gluten free diet, and staying away from cruciferous vegetables. Although I'm technically now considered Hyperthyroid, I don't have those symptoms.

The doc was always concerned about me taking 2 grains and wants to reduce it, but from the past when she had reduced it to 1.5, I felt like crap.

She now wants me to try Synthroid @ 112mcg along with Cytomel (sp?) 5mcg, taken twice a day. She prescribed the equivalent of taking 1.5 grains of Naturethroid and said she would not increase the dosage until i was taking it for 8 weeks. Well, if I felt like crap at 1.5 grains of Naturethroid, I'm assuming i'm going to feel the same on Synthroid. Feeling like crap for the next 8 weeks is going to be hell. Or I may even do better on Synthroid than I did on Naturethroid. I'm so scared and so aggravated.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

2BeOrNot2Be said:


> I went to the doctor today for my followup. My labs came back as follows:
> 
> TSH - 0.047 (0.5-4.0)
> T3 - 5.18 (2.0-4.9)
> ...


A question...................; "Why is your doc running total 3 and 4 instead of the FREES?

FT4 and FT3 are the unbound portion of hormone available for cellular uptake. This would be a more accurate assessment of your status.

And this question is very important. "How do you feel?" Do you feel hyper? What do you mean when you say you feel like crap? Please be specific.

Switching around won't be helpful to you in the long run. At least I don't think so. (humble opinion)

Very concerned for you and about you!


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## 2BeOrNot2Be (Jan 22, 2011)

Hi Andros!

Sorry, forgot to say that they are actually the free T3 and free T4 lab results. I don't feel hyper at all from the symptoms I've read. Crap to me feels like low in energy, not waking up refreshed, puffy face and undereye bags, joint aches, chills because my temperature would go up to 100 and back down again in cycles throughout the day, mind fog and unable to concentrate.

I began taking the Levothroxine and the T3 med today. Luckily, I didn't feel bad except for feeling very tired towards 4-5 pm. I had to take a T3 pill in the morning, and again at noon. I'm assuming the tiredness is from the T3 leaving my system. I'm hoping for better results with the synthetic drugs. I also bought Zinc, Selenium, Chromium, and L-Tyrosine to support my thyroid. Has anyone been taking any of these?


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

2BeOrNot2Be said:


> Hi Andros!
> 
> Sorry, forgot to say that they are actually the free T3 and free T4 lab results. I don't feel hyper at all from the symptoms I've read. Crap to me feels like low in energy, not waking up refreshed, puffy face and undereye bags, joint aches, chills because my temperature would go up to 100 and back down again in cycles throughout the day, mind fog and unable to concentrate.
> 
> I began taking the Levothroxine and the T3 med today. Luckily, I didn't feel bad except for feeling very tired towards 4-5 pm. I had to take a T3 pill in the morning, and again at noon. I'm assuming the tiredness is from the T3 leaving my system. I'm hoping for better results with the synthetic drugs. I also bought Zinc, Selenium, Chromium, and L-Tyrosine to support my thyroid. Has anyone been taking any of these?


Please correct your labs so others can help you in the proper manner. If those are the FREES, you are over medicated. FT3 should not be over the top of the range.

What T3 are you taking and how much? The tiredness "could" be from being over medicated. Your metabolism is running in high gear thus leaving you in an exhausted state.

I would hold off on supplements until you get your meds right.


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## CA-Lynn (Apr 29, 2010)

And the tiredness could be from a bunch of other things, totally unrelated.

Definitely.....hold off on all supplements. If some weird symptom happens then you won't know if it's the Rx or the supplement. Best to eliminate the unnecessary.

[I'm not a believer in supplements.]


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## lavender (Jul 13, 2010)

I am a believer in supplements. This past year has taught me to treat them exactly as I treat medicine. It's all adding chemicals to your body. I have learned things like my body is very sensitive to Vitamin B, and my body needs Calcium to work properly, It needs vitamin D for the calcium to work and Magnesium for the D to work.

I would hold off on the supplements. I have learned from experience that too many changes at once can be disasterous. I have tried to do the same myself and only vitamined myself into one heck of a confusing situation. It took me a really long time to realize it was the B giving me heart palpitations because I kept starting it at the same time my synthreoid dose was increased. I thought the heart palpitations were from the synthroid, had my dose lowered, and then ended up really hypo and miserable.

Selenium speeds up the conversion of T4 to T3. Your T3 is already high and could be causing you hyper symptoms including fatigue. See, High thyroid hormones speed up your body at such a rate that it tires the body out. Causes all sorts of havoc with our every system in our bodies.


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## lavender (Jul 13, 2010)

I am a believer in supplements. This past year has taught me to treat them exactly as I treat medicine. It's all adding chemicals to your body. I have learned things like my body is very sensitive to Vitamin B, and my body needs Calcium to work properly, It needs vitamin D for the calcium to work and Magnesium for the D to work.

I would hold off on the supplements. I have learned from experience that too many changes at once can be disasterous. I have tried to do the same myself and only vitamined myself into one heck of a confusing situation. It took me a really long time to realize it was the B giving me heart palpitations because I kept starting it at the same time my synthreoid dose was increased. I thought the heart palpitations were from the synthroid, had my dose lowered, and then ended up really hypo and miserable.

Selenium speeds up the conversion of T4 to T3. Your T3 is already high and could be causing you hyper symptoms including fatigue. See, High thyroid hormones speed up your body at such a rate that it tires the body out. Causes all sorts of havoc with our every system in our bodies.

I don't know if changing from Naturethyroid to Synthroid and Cytomel will be good for you or not. Seems like some people do well on the synthetic while others do well on the dessicated pig. Have you been on synthetic before? What was your experience? What is your gut telling you?


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## kphelps71 (Feb 4, 2011)

I became a believer in supplements as well this past few months. Once I got my Synthroid (for the most part) under control, I started to include supplements into my daily routine.

I never believed they made that much of a difference before my thyroid starting acting up. But now I really don't think my body would function without them.


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## javynliz (Aug 27, 2012)

Hi. Wow! I feel for you. I have had the same symptoms as you. I was diagnosed with PCOS as well as hypothyroidism. I have a nodule on my right side of my thyroid it is .4 and solid. No FNA yet. I have been on levothyroxine which is generic for Synthroid for 4 or 5 days. I haven't been feeling great today but I'm hopeful. I do want to know if I have Hashis though. Hang in there. Wish I could be more helpful. Just know you are not alone.


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