# Hashimoto's & silver fillings



## sjmjuly

For those of us who suffer with hashi's, I recently researched the relationship between hashi's and silver amalgam fillings. I read in many articles where people that had hashi's had their silver fillings removed and actually felt better afterwards. There is a definite connection between auto immune and heavy metals. Skeptical, I decided to have the six I had in my mouth replaced with white composite fillings.
WOW. Not only do they look better, I feel SOOOOO much better! Even with the recent decrease with my Naturethroid, I feel really good. Sleeping through the night, no heart palps, no anxiety, and for the first time since I was diagnosed my temperature is 98.6 in the morning AND in the evening. I have energy throughout the day and feel like I did before this whole hashi's mess started.
Mercury is poison to the human body and it baffles me that dentists continue to put this garbage in our mouths. 
So anyone that suffers with this God-awful disease, please consider removing your silver fillings and have them replaced. It just might make you feel better too!hugs4


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## CA-Lynn

Just to play devil's advocate.....I wouldn't run out and remove silver or mercury fillings in the hopes of making Hashi's improve. Why not? Well.......I cannot find any scientific articles to support this. Lots of laymen stuff, but nothing scientific to support this. Think about it: if it was true, there would probably an astounding number of cases of Hashimoto's reported in addition to what's already out there.


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## sjmjuly

CA-Lynn said:


> Just to play devil's advocate.....I wouldn't run out and remove silver or mercury fillings in the hopes of making Hashi's improve. Why not? Well.......I cannot find any scientific articles to support this. Lots of laymen stuff, but nothing scientific to support this. Think about it: if it was true, there would probably an astounding number of cases of Hashimoto's reported in addition to what's already out there.


That wasn't the intention of my post. It was just to make people aware of it. And your last sentence was incorrect. I never said silver fillings CAUSED hashimoto's. 
Sometimes "science" isn't "scientific". Just look at how many doctors are out there that are "scientific" and don't have a clue. Just sayin'.


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## piggley

sjmjuly, I have issues with amalgam fillings as well-I believe you.

A few years ago i was preparing for a serious operation and decided to be on the safe side and have my old amalgams removed - 
When I presented myself to the dentist he said nothing when i asked for white fillings in their place..
Unbelievably- when he had drilled out the old fillings and my mouth was full of cotton wool he then proceeded to fill the cavities with fresh Mercury fillings, reassuring me all the time that it was harmelss,
Sill dont know why he insisted on doing that, If I had known then what I do now i would have jumped off that chair and run,
Long after that that I could taste metal every time I chewed. I have asked another Dentist about the fillings and he said harmless,no problem!
Its actually illegal to install Mercury fillings in some European Countries, (Switzerland I think,) so there's a red light .

BTW, it was a few weeks after the fillings were replaced I began to get psoriasis lesions on my legs, occasional palps - I suspect perhaps that was the very beginnings of the thyroid problem-but it was a long time coming on.
I have just started using drops of cilantro every day, which is supposed to chelate heavy metals, particularly Mercury, from the body, while i wait to get the fillings removed,
(Now I have to stump up lots of Money and get mine replaced thanks to the idiot dentist). That'll teach me to be a whimp.
Cheers.


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## CA-Lynn

Originally Posted by CA-Lynn 
Just to play devil's advocate.....I wouldn't run out and remove silver or mercury fillings in the hopes of making Hashi's improve. Why not? Well.......I cannot find any scientific articles to support this. Lots of laymen stuff, but nothing scientific to support this. Think about it: if it was true, there would probably an astounding number of cases of Hashimoto's reported in addition to what's already out there.

SJMJULY wrote: "That wasn't the intention of my post. It was just to make people aware of it. And your last sentence was incorrect. I never said silver fillings CAUSED hashimoto's. Sometimes "science" isn't "scientific". Just look at how many doctors are out there that are "scientific" and don't have a clue. Just sayin'."

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

I never said that YOU said that the fillings caused Hashimoto's. My last sentence in the original post is not incorrect. The reality is that if there was a correlation between these fillings and Hashimoto's you would have seen plenty of studies that supported the correlation. Those studies do not exist.

I think people are often desperate to find a reason for why they've come down with an autoimmune disease and will grasp at anything.

If you think about it, removing these fillings will cause larger holes in the teeth, even though subsequently replaced with other material. The larger excavation of the tooth makes it more prone to instability and structural damage.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...-fillings-amalgam-consumers-for-dental-choice

Michael Fleming is a Raleigh, N.C.-based "mercury-free" dentist who hasn't used amalgam in his practice for 28 years. He never guarantees that removing amalgam will improve health and advises of potential drawbacks: tooth sensitivity, potential future need of a root canal if there's nerve damage in the process, the increased release of mercury vapors during removal and the cost, which can range from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars. He typically doesn't recommend it for very ill people or those with life-threatening medical conditions.

But some patients, anecdotally, have reported feeling better after having their fillings removed.

"We have had a couple of patients whose thyroid disease cleared after removal of mercury, sleep and concentration improved, as did energy levels, fatigue," said Fleming, an appointed consultant to the FDA's Center for Devices and Radiological Health (his views don't represent the FDA's). "And in others, you don't see any improvement."

Edmond Hewlett, vice chairman of restorative dentistry at UCLA School of Dentistry and consumer adviser for the ADA, strongly warns against removing sound fillings, as more trauma to the tooth can weaken the tooth structure. Furthermore, he said, it's "unethical" and "cruel" to give people hope that their symptoms will be cured post-amalgam without any evidence that that's true.

"Until there's compelling evidence there's the slightest risk of harm, then (amalgam fillings) are a good option," Hewlett said.

Why amalgam?

Durability, affordability and speed of installation are the top reasons dentists use amalgam, which costs patients about 20 percent less than composite resin or glass ionomer fillings. Arguments against banning amalgam often suggest higher costs would discourage poorer people from fixing tooth decay.

Improvements in composite resin, which eclipsed amalgam as the most popular filling some seven years ago, have made it as durable as amalgam, and it requires less removal of healthy tooth structure, said dentist Edmond Hewlett. But it's difficult to use on teeth that have trouble staying dry during the procedure, such as the back molars. Glass ionomer fillings, which are beginning to be used more, may present a good alternative, Hewlett said.


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## greatdanes

I have heard of this as well and I wouldn't doubt the connection. I had one japanese dentist tell told me I should get my mercury fillings removed and replace them with the white ones. I also had a dentist that when he removed one of my old fillings he replaced it with the white one. I think they know but aren't allowed to say anything. Sure you may be an 'anecdotal' example, but how many of us are considered 'anecdotal', and we are many. I find more knowledge about this stuff from BTDT's than I have from any endo or doc. I also have about 6 mercury fillings left...yes I have bad teeth lol, but at least you can't tell by looking. If the dessicated thyroid doesn't work for me, I may consider this.

Oh well I just wanted to tell you that I'm glad it relieved your symptoms. We should all rejoice when one feels bettr!!:hugs:


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## sjmjuly

CA-Lynn said:


> Originally Posted by CA-Lynn
> Just to play devil's advocate.....I wouldn't run out and remove silver or mercury fillings in the hopes of making Hashi's improve. Why not? Well.......I cannot find any scientific articles to support this. Lots of laymen stuff, but nothing scientific to support this. Think about it: if it was true, there would probably an astounding number of cases of Hashimoto's reported in addition to what's already out there.
> 
> SJMJULY wrote: "That wasn't the intention of my post. It was just to make people aware of it. And your last sentence was incorrect. I never said silver fillings CAUSED hashimoto's. Sometimes "science" isn't "scientific". Just look at how many doctors are out there that are "scientific" and don't have a clue. Just sayin'."
> 
> ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
> 
> I never said that YOU said that the fillings caused Hashimoto's. My last sentence in the original post is not incorrect. The reality is that if there was a correlation between these fillings and Hashimoto's you would have seen plenty of studies that supported the correlation. Those studies do not exist.
> 
> I think people are often desperate to find a reason for why they've come down with an autoimmune disease and will grasp at anything.
> 
> If you think about it, removing these fillings will cause larger holes in the teeth, even though subsequently replaced with other material. The larger excavation of the tooth makes it more prone to instability and structural damage.
> 
> http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...-fillings-amalgam-consumers-for-dental-choice
> 
> Michael Fleming is a Raleigh, N.C.-based "mercury-free" dentist who hasn't used amalgam in his practice for 28 years. He never guarantees that removing amalgam will improve health and advises of potential drawbacks: tooth sensitivity, potential future need of a root canal if there's nerve damage in the process, the increased release of mercury vapors during removal and the cost, which can range from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars. He typically doesn't recommend it for very ill people or those with life-threatening medical conditions.
> 
> But some patients, anecdotally, have reported feeling better after having their fillings removed.
> 
> "We have had a couple of patients whose thyroid disease cleared after removal of mercury, sleep and concentration improved, as did energy levels, fatigue," said Fleming, an appointed consultant to the FDA's Center for Devices and Radiological Health (his views don't represent the FDA's). "And in others, you don't see any improvement."
> 
> Edmond Hewlett, vice chairman of restorative dentistry at UCLA School of Dentistry and consumer adviser for the ADA, strongly warns against removing sound fillings, as more trauma to the tooth can weaken the tooth structure. Furthermore, he said, it's "unethical" and "cruel" to give people hope that their symptoms will be cured post-amalgam without any evidence that that's true.
> 
> "Until there's compelling evidence there's the slightest risk of harm, then (amalgam fillings) are a good option," Hewlett said.
> 
> Why amalgam?
> 
> Durability, affordability and speed of installation are the top reasons dentists use amalgam, which costs patients about 20 percent less than composite resin or glass ionomer fillings. Arguments against banning amalgam often suggest higher costs would discourage poorer people from fixing tooth decay.
> 
> Improvements in composite resin, which eclipsed amalgam as the most popular filling some seven years ago, have made it as durable as amalgam, and it requires less removal of healthy tooth structure, said dentist Edmond Hewlett. But it's difficult to use on teeth that have trouble staying dry during the procedure, such as the back molars. Glass ionomer fillings, which are beginning to be used more, may present a good alternative, Hewlett said.


Blah, Blah, Blah. 
If I had listened to ANY of the idot "scientific" doctors I would still be untreated, undiagnosed and on Prozac. 
Sometimes it isn't just about what the "complelling" scientific articles & "studies" show. Sometimes it simply comes down to how you feel and relief of symptoms. And by the way, I had this done at a bio dental office that specializes in the removal of crap fillings so any dangers were at a minimum. I feel great now and wish I had done this years ago. No problems and no ill after effects from removing them. Also, never said the fillings caused my auto immune issue, so I am not grabbing or desperate to find a reason why I have this. I just have it. 
In addition, any dentist that continues to use this crap isn't going to write an article saying anything else but how wonderful and safe it is. Gimme a break. 
All my original post was to let people know that it helped me and something to think about. That's all. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## lainey

I haven't had a dental insurance plan that will pay for anything BUT silver fillings. So I can only wonder where that research is condemning them--I'd like to get my hands on it so that my insurance is at least forced to pay up--my dentist won't do amalgam anymore, and of course those composite fillings cost three times as much.

Given that mercury occurs naturally in the enviroment and is a pretty common component of air pollution and therefore part of the watershed and in the soil, silver fillings are the least of anyone's worries when it comes to heavy metals. Once you have them out, you can make up the deficit by eating some fatty fish twice a week like the government suggests, getting the flu shot or breathing the vapor when you sweep up the remains of a broken CFL light bulb.

Don't forget, after all the hype in years past about the dangers of asbestos and lead paint, we are learning that from the standpoint environmental exposure, sometimes leaving things that are intact well enough alone results in less exposure than removing it. IMHO the same applies to mercury fillings. Just because the fillings are gone is the mercury gone from your body? Not really--the accumulated mercury remains--some estimates suggest it can take 15- 30 years to clear the CNS. Because of this, oftentimes people are then sold expensive chelation treatments after their fillings are removed.

Any immediate effects a person might see from removing fillings, again IMHO, is a placebo affect.

Makes you wonder why removing fillings it isn't common practice, no?

Common sense dictates skepticism in the face of any promises of quick cures for any treatment.

If you think it worked for you, terrific. We should all be glad you feel better.


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## piggley

.Wish I didnt have mine, only thing that stope me getting mine replaced, apart from the expense, are the fumes,

from the Wiki
Quote,

The World Health Organization (WHO) notes that exposure can be greatly increased by personal habits such as bruxism and gum-chewing and cites a report which found a 5.3 fold increase in mercury levels after chewing, eating, or toothbrushing. They report that amalgam is estimated to contribute 50% of mercury exposure in adults. In the studies the WHO reviews, daily mercury exposure estimates range from 3 μg/day to 9 μg/day.[26]

A Swedish study of autopsies examined the mercury levels in brains and kidneys and found a strong correlation with the number of amalgam fillings.[27] A German study found that mercury urinary excretion was significantly higher in those with dental amalgam fillings.[28]
unquote,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dental_amalgam_controversy


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## lainey

Because its always about how the data is interpreted:

From the same Wiki article"



> In the studies the WHO reviews, daily mercury exposure estimates range from 3 μg/day to 9 μg/day.


Yes in a "study conducted by measuring the intraoral vapor levels over a 24-hour period in patients with at least *nine* amalgam restorations" Is that an average number? Do most people have more--or likely less fillings-- than these?

Later in the same article: "As a (straight) comparison, these daily absorption levels comprise between 3.4% and 68% of workplace air quality safety standards (which range from 25 to 50 micrograms per cubic meter of air)."

The issue here is, you can reduce but not eliminate your exposure. If you are going to blame thyroid disease on the mercury amalgam fillings, you are going to have to go a lot further an remove all other exposures to the culprit heavy metal. Not possible, so offering dental filling removal as a cure-all is simply not practical.

In other news, skin cancer is on the rise since people have started using sunscreen. Does sunscreen cause skin cancer? The same logic applies.


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## piggley

I dont believe anyone is suggesting Amalgam fillings are the sole and only cause of dodgy Thyroids,seeing as how malfunctioning Thyroids have been with us forever, just that there is a suspected connection. 
(Which i believe is there is)
Matter of belief until proven I suppose,but each to his own


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## sjmjuly

piggley said:


> I dont believe anyone is suggesting Amalgam fillings are the sole and only cause of dodgy Thyroids,seeing as how malfunctioning Thyroids have been with us forever, just that there is a suspected connection.
> (Which i believe is there is)
> Matter of belief until proven I suppose,but each to his own


THANK YOU! Geez. Didn't anyone REALLY read what I originally posted???? I never said I thought amalgam fillings caused thyroid disease or blamed them for my hashimoto's. I simply stated that I had a mouth full of them and decided to have them removed. And for me anyway, it was worth doing. I feel better and my teeth look great. 
I am fortunate - I have two dental insurance plans and have the means to take care of this - the cost was minimal for me and suggested that it might help someone else like it helped me.
I never meant to start World War III of the thyroid boards.


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## greatdanes

sjmjuly said:


> THANK YOU! Geez. Didn't anyone REALLY read what I originally posted???? I never said I thought amalgam fillings caused thyroid disease or blamed them for my hashimoto's. I simply stated that I had a mouth full of them and decided to have them removed. And for me anyway, it was worth doing. I feel better and my teeth look great.
> I am fortunate - I have two dental insurance plans and have the means to take care of this - the cost was minimal for me and suggested that it might help someone else like it helped me.
> I never meant to start World War III of the thyroid boards.


I actually think it's condescending for someone to tell you that you feel better b/c you've experienced a 'placebo' when you know you're body. It's like an endo saying, your labs are normal, your symptoms are all in your head. May as well call the person a liar. Sorry, that bothered me!!


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## sjmjuly

greatdanes said:


> I actually think it's condescending for someone to tell you that you feel better b/c you've experienced a 'placebo' when you know you're body. It's like an endo saying, your labs are normal, your symptoms are all in your head. May as well call the person a liar. Sorry, that bothered me!!


Thank you greatdanes, I agree 100% with you. I do feel better and the metallic taste in my mouth is finally gone.


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## Octavia

Seems plausible to me that because you have an autoimmune disease (or maybe even if you didn't), you may react differently (more negatively) than the general population to having mercury in your mouth...and with the mercury removed, there's less to react to, so perhaps something in your body has calmed down. In my mind, it's along the same lines as feeling better after having the thyroid itself removed--if your body isn't happy with the thyroid (or mercury) there, so removing it could help. Not the same thing, but similar in principle.

Regarding scientific studies that prove a connection between mercury fillings and Hashimotos patients' outcomes...have there been any that showed that there most likely is NOT a connection? Or is it simply something that hasn't been studied much at all? (I don't know...it's not something I've ever looked for.)

Anyway, glad it helped you, and glad you're feeling better!


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## CA-Lynn

Great Danes: Don't take what I write as condescending. I write facts that should not be taken personally.

And yes, studies have shown that there is no viable connection between the amalgrams and thyroid disease. Wikipedia summarizes it well:

Peer-reviewed scientific studies have come to opposite conclusions on whether the mercury exposure from amalgam fillings causes health problems. A 2004 systematic review conducted by the Life Sciences Research Office, whose clients include the FDA and NIH, concluded that "the current data are insufficient to support an association between mercury release from dental amalgam and the various complaints that have been attributed to this restoration material".[3] A peer-reviewed Journal of the Canadian Dental Association article holds that "it seems likely that humans may have evolved with a threshold level for mercury below which there is no response or observable adverse health effects".[33] Another review published in 2005 by the Freiburg University Institute for Environmental Medicine found that "mercury from dental amalgam may lead to nephrotoxicity, neurobehavioural changes, autoimmunity, oxidative stress, autism, skin and mucosa alterations or non-specific symptoms and complaints", that "Alzheimer's disease or multiple sclerosis has also been linked to low-dose mercury exposure", and that "removal of dental amalgam leads to permanent improvement of various chronic complaints in a relevant number of patients in various trials."[4]

Potential amalgam-induced health risks which have been studied by researchers include those related to allergy as well as toxicity. In 2002, the Food and Drug Administration issued a statement on dental amalgam which asserted that "no valid scientific evidence has shown that amalgams cause harm to patients with dental restorations, except in the rare case of allergy".[34] A 1991-1997 study of 3162 patients in Sweden and Germany found that 719 of those with mercury fillings, or 23 percent, tested positive for systemic allergic sensitivity to inorganic mercury on the MELISA lymphocyte proliferation test.[35] In a smaller group of 85 patients who suffered from symptoms resembling Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and had their amalgams replaced with composites and metal-free ceramics, "over 78 percent reported improvement in health status as compared to the period prior to metal removal."[35] A paper published as part of a 1991 National Institutes of Health conference on side-effects of dental restorative materials reported a 22.53% incidence of allergy in subjects who had amalgam fillings for more than five years.[36] Despite these findings, the ADA claimed as recently as 2004 that there had been less than 100 reported cases of allergic reactions to amalgam fillings.[18]

The FDI World Dental Federation performed a meta-analysis of the literature on mercury toxicity and concluded that there is no documented scientific evidence to show adverse effects from mercury in amalgam restorations except in extremely rare cases of mercury hypersensitivity.[37]

In 2001, the United States National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey of 31,000 adult Americans, NHANES III, covering 1988-94, was published by the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS). It is statistically valid for all 180,000,000 adult Americans. The survey found that the number of dental fillings was significantly correlated to incidence of cancer, thyroid conditions, mental conditions, diseases of the nervous system including MS, diseases of the respiratory and genito-urinary systems, and disorders of the eye, circulatory and respiratory systems. At the time of the survey (1988-94), the vast majority of dental fillings placed were silver amalgam.[38] However, the United States FDA, various supreme court judges and others have determined that correlation does not sufficiently demonstrate causation.

Ten years earlier, unrelated to NHANES III and before the NHANES/Dental Filling correlations, in 1991 the United States Food and Drug Administration concluded that "none of the data presented show a direct hazard to humans from dental amalgams."[39] The Food and Drug Administration in 2008 subsequently issued an advisory warning pregnant women and children about dental amalgam containing mercury, and posted this warning on their website. Again unrelated to NHANES III, on February 18, 2003, the New York Supreme Court dismissed two amalgam-related lawsuits against organized dentistry, stating the plaintiffs had "failed to show a 'cognizable cause of action'." The plaintiffs blamed the ADA, the New York Dental Association and the Fifth District Dental Society for deceiving the "public about health risks allegedly associated with dental amalgam."[40]

A 2047 monograph on mercury toxicity from the World Health Organization concluded that:[26]

Studies on humans and animals have demonstrated that dental amalgam contributes significantly to mercury body burden in humans with amalgam fillings.
Dental amalgam is the most common form of exposure to elemental mercury in the general population, constituting a potentially significant source of exposure to elemental mercury, with estimates of daily intake from amalgam restorations ranging from 1 to 12.5 μg/day, the majority of dental amalgam holders being exposed to less than 5 μg mercury/day.
Intestinal absorption varies greatly among the various forms of mercury, with elemental mercury (as found in amalgam) being the least absorbed form (<0.01%)
Absorption also varies according to individual factors such as gum chewing and bruxism (tooth grinding).
The number of restorations - amalgam or otherwise - is declining, largely due to improved dental hygiene, in all industrialised countries examined declining by 38% since the 1970s in the USA and over 65% in the ten years from 1986 in the UK
Although several studies have demonstrated that some mercury from amalgam fillings is absorbed, no relationship was observed between the mercury release from amalgam fillings and the mercury concentration in basal brain.
However, in the same report it was concluded that "...even at very low mercury levels, subtle changes in visual system function can be measured."
In multiple sclerosis patients with amalgam fillings, red blood cells, haemoglobin, hematocrit, thyroxine (T4), T-lymphocytes and T-8 (CD8) suppressors cells levels are significantly lower, while blood urea nitrogen and hair mercury levels are significantly higher.
The report also notes that regarding elemental mercury exposure, the main form of exposure from dental amalgam," most studies rely on assessment of exposure at the time of study, which may not be fully informative, as mercury has a long half-life in the body and thus accumulates in continuous exposure ", making the evaluation of effects on health uncertain.
Other lesser findings were reported, including a cross-sectional study in which cognitive function was not related to the number or surface area of occlusal dental amalgams, a case-control study in which patients with numerous amalgam fillings exhibited higher levels of neurological symptoms than the controls, and a study of self-referred patients who believed they were suffering ill-effects from dental amalgams which found no correlation between number of dental fillings and symptomatology, but higher mean neuroticism than two comparison groups (the authors concluded that self-referred patients with health complaints attributed to dental amalgam are a heterogeneous group of patients who suffer multiple symptoms and frequently have mental disorders).


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## CA-Lynn

In case no one picked up on it......there's more mercury in the environment that you should possibly be concerned with than in your mouth.


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## piggley

i have only been thinking about my fillings again since my thyroid clagged out,post new mercury fillings,
From what I have read the evidence is more than circumstantial. Also, Mercury is thought to shield viruses and bacteria in the body and gives them a place to hide-thats not good for people with Lyme and MS either,

What I do find baffling is the staunch defense by Dentists of Amalgam fillings,

Its illegal in Sweden to install metal fillings, does that not give them cause to look at the situation. Wouldnt we assume that patient health is no1 concern? I cant think why they are so adamant that the fillings are harmless, when there is such a big question mark.
http://www.yourhealthbase.com/amalgams.html

quote from the article.

ADA fighting the mercury battle
GAITHERSBURG, MARYLAND. The American Dental Association (ADA) has launched an advertising campaign to discourage patients from having their amalgam (silver) fillings removed. Many patients and sometimes even their physicians believe that mercury, the main component of amalgams, plays a role in promoting such varied diseases as Alzheimer's, multiple sclerosis, and autism. The ADA says the evidence is not there and their Code of Ethics forbids dentists from advising their patients that there could be a link. Scientists at the University of Milan disagree with the ADA and point out that several studies have confirmed that mercury from amalgam dental fillings does enter tissues and that the mercury content of brain, thyroid, kidney, and pituitary gland tissue is proportional to the number of amalgam fillings. They conclude that the health effects of amalgam fillings are not at all clear and need further investigation. German researchers point out that some of the composite materials used in the replacement of amalgam fillings may in themselves be toxic.
Larkin, M. Don't remove amalgam fillings, urges American Dental Association. The Lancet, Vol. 360, August 3, 2002, p. 393
Guzzi, G, et al. Should amalgam fillings be removed? The Lancet, Vol. 360, December 21/28, 2002, p. 2081
Editor's comment: Mercury and removed amalgam fillings are classified as hazardous materials and require extreme caution in disposal. Why they would be hazardous outside the mouth, but not inside defies comprehension. It is also a scientifically proven fact that the blood level of mercury is twice as high in dentists as in non-dentists. This fact and the fact that savvy patients don't want mercury in their mouths is no doubt what is leading many dentists to put a, albeit discrete, sign in their waiting rooms "Mercury-free practice"!


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## CA-Lynn

Methinks that "mercury-free" practice sign [which I've not seen in my dentist's office] is just marketing hype.


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## lainey

> In case no one picked up on it......there's more mercury in the environment that you should possibly be concerned with than in your mouth.


Well yes, someone did finally pick up on that, thank you.

There is also a huge difference between correlation and causation here. In the case of causation and environmental factors, it is almost impossible to prove in this arena.

As for mercury, just as the number of dental restorations is reduced, the overall use in medicine is down--it was removed as a preservative in vaccines 15 years ago, so today's population is going to receive a majority of it's exposure from environmental sources. In the meantime, the incidence of autoimmune diseases is rising. The NAHES studies and the like will look a lot different in this regard in even 10 years--what will correlations point to as the "cause" then?


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## greatdanes

CA-I don;t think you were being condescending, you just provided links. I was talking about another poster who said what she experienced is 'placebo'. Also, as to environmental factors, we are exposed to cigarette smoke, car fumes, pollution etc, daily/weekly but it's different living with a toxin that is in your mouth 24/7. I don't smoke, never have, but if my MIL came to live with us and smoked 24/7, you better bet I would develop some type of symptoms/irritations. This is not the first time I have read about someone feeling better after having their fillings removed. In fact if you google it, you'll find 100's of people saying the same thing. I and others are only saying that, yes, mercury fillings may cause an adverse reaction in some people. To flat out say it's not plausible (when other people have said they felt better afterwards) is being closed minded in my opinion.


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## lainey

From the OP:



> So anyone that suffers with this God-awful disease, please consider removing your silver fillings and have them replaced. It just might make you feel better too


This is what created the original thread, i.e.; whether this action could be substantiated.

Anecdotal reports that people may read on the internet of "feeling better" after removing their amalgam fillings have at best contradictory support in quantifiable research at this time. No need to repost here what has already been done.

Given that removing the fillings creates a biohazard, and given that mercury, even if removed from the teeth is not subsequently removed in a residual way from the body by removing the fillings(which would be contributing most to the CNS symptoms in the first place), there is little scientific evidence to justify such actions at the present time.

Dialogue is created in a forum where differing opinions meet. How lovely, yet unrealistic, it is to think that everyone's opinions should validate our actions--but we learn nothing if we all agree with each other. However, we do have much to gain from intelligent debate.


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## sjmjuly

Wow. I can't believe the "fire storm" this has caused from one little post. 
So kill me for having my fillings replaced. I am sorry I ever mentioned it. Alot of you went to alot of time and trouble to try and prove your point. 
Yes - all your "scientific" information is noted, but I hate to burst your bubbles. Just think about how many things in our lives the "scientists" thought were safe only to find out years later they actually were not. Asbestos comes to mind. Even cigarrette smoking. Nobody thought it was "that dangerous" 50 yrs ago. 
Doctors & scientists are not God - most of us that suffered for YEARS without being diagnosed know that for a fact. It would not surprise me that in a few years it does come out that mercury fillings are hazardous to our health. But let's for a moment (if you can) get away from the "scientific" evidence: Science isn't a 100% without fail. Just when they say something is safe, the next day it isn't. All I know is that FOR ME it was the right thing to do and I feel great. Not to say that as soon as the crap was out of my teeth the clouds parted, the angels began singing and a rainbow appeared. I have been doing everything humanly possible to make myself well. This was just another check mark on the list of things to do, so I am SURE it's not just the removal of the silver that has made me better. 
So have them out, don't have them out. Go ahead and think I have lost my mind. Frankly I don't care. I never meant to cause such a heated debate.


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## piggley

Hi Simjuly.
Why on earth should you think you have anything to apologise for. Observation has been the cornerstone of every Medical advance we have ever had . Problem starts when someone expresses an opinion that challenges something people have made their mind up about-its like they lit a match in a sea of Gas leaks,
The problem isnt so much that the idea is ridiculous, the problem is that many peoiple have a problem changing their mind, basically.

Makes perfect sense to me that to have Mercury pemanantly installed right beside and on top of veins and skin is a bad idea - so do many Drs,
as they say what goes in your mouth can be in your toes in a few minutes.
Off topic, but there are so many examples of breakthoughs in Medicine that were jeered at but now accepted as the norm. How about your wonderful Dr Sara Jo baker who established that the Typhoid epidemic in NY City was caused by filth, and bad living conditions. She went door to door and educated the Mothers about cleanliness and the child death rate dropped-(-the local Pediatricians wrote a letter of complaint to the Authorities about her because their patients were fewer)

Barry Marshall and Robin Warren here in Oz endured 10 years of back slapping ridicule and scorn from the Medical establishment because of their work to prove that many stomach ulcers were caused by Bacteria in the gut-impossible said the experts- nothing could survive the stomach acid! Barry swallowed the bacteria, and then took the antibiotics and cured himself,
Then there is David Wheldon, a Microbiologist who, when his Wife was dignosed with MS in 2003, took the course of treating her with Antibiotics- by then she was numb from the waist down and in a wheelchair -but gradually she improved, her brain lesions even healed, and now she is walking and continuing to improve. Instead of being excited, or interested, her Nueroligist refused to look at the Xrays showing how her brain lesions had healed. 
(I'll include a link in case anyone is interested in their beautiful story.)

http://www.davidwheldon.co.uk/ms-treatment1.html

Good thing to challenge conventional thinking, should be more of it I say,
Needs doing often, twice a day at least. !


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## midgetmaid

Excellent answer, piggley!

Sjmjuly, thanks for sharing your experience. That's why I joined this forum-to learn from other people's journey.

This thread is an example of why I don't post very often. When giving their response, some members are RUDE.

Renee


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## lainey

> Problem starts when someone expresses an opinion that challenges something people have made their mind up about-its like they lit a match in a sea of Gas leaks,
> The problem isnt so much that the idea is ridiculous, the problem is that many peoiple have a problem changing their mind, basically.


Actually, that is exactly what I did--challenge something that people have their mind made up about. Some times that is called playing the devil's advocate. The idea is to cause people to think a bit about the other side of an issue.

People are blowing up all over about it as well.

Now it seems that I am being accused of being closed minded and rude--by folks who are also being, would it be, closed minded and rude or simply defensive because I have chosen to take a contrary stance?

How unfortunate.


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## piggley

Wonder if possibly there could be lawsuits if the ADA conceded a possible problem with metal fillings- a number of people could then argue Amalgam is what triggered whatever illness they had developed, and sue,
So with their eyes fixed on their insurance premiums, ADA wait until scientific proof one way or the other. That way they arent liable, whtever they might be thinking,

(Just a thought anyhow,)


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## lainey

Actually, that is an interesting place to go.

The government has very different standards regarding supporting research for things that they classify as devices vs. drugs. Look in the news and you will see all kinds of negative reports regarding "devices" such as replacement joints (just one in the NY Times today), implantable defribrillators and the like. Patients sometimes suffer from high failure rates of some of these, or long term complications because longitudinal studies were never done.

Standards of exposure change too. For example, in the past few years the government has taken almost a "lead free" stance for all products made for children. What a struggle this created, because it extended to the clothing industry (zippers and pulls), motor vehicles--many children around the age of 12 use motor bikes, wave runners, etc--and even the printing industry (lead is in the color inks on the covers of books).

Not to mention that the out come of research is often tainted by the funding source. It's not hard to find news somewhere about how researchers had ties to a particular company funding studies for their own drug.

Approaching information available in the media with a healthy dose of skepticism is worthwhile.


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## midgetmaid

Approaching information with skepticism is why I spend time reading on this forum almost every day. There are a lot of very knowledgeable members that I have learned from.

I do not have my mind made up about the issue of fillings, and I am not on one side of debate or the other. My objection isn't with anyone's opinion but in how it's presented.

Renee


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## lainey

Yes, unfortunately presentation is subjective and it is not uncommon for people to read things into posts that are not there.


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## sjmjuly

Just for some interesting input, I have not experienced any ill-effects since the fillings were replaced. No sensitivity in my mouth or soreness. For the first time in almost a year I am sleeping through the night and my temperature has been in the normal ranges both in the morning AND the evening. 
I feel really good and while I don't believe replacing the fillings was the "miracle", I do think it helped. Thank you everyone for an interesting post!


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## piggley

lainey said:


> Actually, that is an interesting place to go.
> 
> The government has very different standards regarding supporting research for things that they classify as devices vs. drugs. Look in the news and you will see all kinds of negative reports regarding "devices" such as replacement joints (just one in the NY Times today), implantable defribrillators and the like. Patients sometimes suffer from high failure rates of some of these, or long term complications because longitudinal studies were never done.
> 
> Standards of exposure change too. For example, in the past few years the government has taken almost a "lead free" stance for all products made for children. What a struggle this created, because it extended to the clothing industry (zippers and pulls), motor vehicles--many children around the age of 12 use motor bikes, wave runners, etc--and even the printing industry (lead is in the color inks on the covers of books).
> 
> Not to mention that the out come of research is often tainted by the funding source. It's not hard to find news somewhere about how researchers had ties to a particular company funding studies for their own drug.
> 
> Approaching information available in the media with a healthy dose of skepticism is worthwhile.


I read that there is a little cabal of Scientists heavily promoting Vit D and peer reviewing each others papers- probably happens all the time, would be surprised if it didnt, 
I have a theory that the Nanny State is actually the Insurance companies in drag,
While the Insurance companies actually have very little concern about the health of the public, they have very big concerns about paying out damages once someone insured has been found against in court,
Although metal fillings are likely to be (I believe), poisening people, sadly that wont be enough incentive to stop using them,not unless the Government stepped in. 
All the hand wringing about Smoking ect and restrictions on where someone can light up- the fact is that inhaling Diesal exhaust fumes will wreck your lungs faster than smoking, Not suggesting here that smoking does you any good, but neither does inhaling traffic fumes,
But you dont see the Government banning Diesal. 
Seldom is it about Public health-


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## bigfoot

Interesting thread, thanks for starting it! I just had this discussion with my acupuncturist the other day. It was something I had never really thought of until then. His take on it was that the mercury accumulates in the body, which has trouble getting rid of it, and that things like the thyroid have an affinity for it. This mercury would then block the thyroid receptor sites and... well, we all know how _that_ goes.

While I'm not going to completely jump on the bandwagon, I have to admit it does make you think about things. Exposure is all about time and levels. You could briefly be exposed to a large amount of something toxic and be fine. You could then be exposed to something toxic in a much smaller quantity over a long period and develop problems.

A perfect example is radiation; we all get it. Being outside in the sun, standing in front of the microwave, getting X-rays at the hospital, or flying in an airplane at 30,000 feet. But when you are outside constantly in the blistering sun, or assembling & testing microwaves in a factory, working in an imaging lab, or flying the friendly skies as a flight attendant, your overall exposure has increased exponentially.


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## sjmjuly

bigfoot said:


> Interesting thread, thanks for starting it! I just had this discussion with my acupuncturist the other day. It was something I had never really thought of until then. His take on it was that the mercury accumulates in the body, which has trouble getting rid of it, and that things like the thyroid have an affinity for it. This mercury would then block the thyroid receptor sites and... well, we all know how _that_ goes.
> 
> While I'm not going to completely jump on the bandwagon, I have to admit it does make you think about things. Exposure is all about time and levels. You could briefly be exposed to a large amount of something toxic and be fine. You could then be exposed to something toxic in a much smaller quantity over a long period and develop problems.
> 
> A perfect example is radiation; we all get it. Being outside in the sun, standing in front of the microwave, getting X-rays at the hospital, or flying in an airplane at 30,000 feet. But when you are outside constantly in the blistering sun, or assembling & testing microwaves in a factory, working in an imaging lab, or flying the friendly skies as a flight attendant, your overall exposure has increased exponentially.


My acupuncturist & I talked about it too at my appt last night. She had all her silver fillings removed 7 months ago. She felt better right away too. She doesn't have thyroid issues, but had some other things going on and just like me, wanted to do everything she can to feel better. Again, not the "cure all", but for some it makes a difference.


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## Andros

If there were no challenges; there would be no progress. It is good to see a bunch of folks expressing their opinions. If not for that, this would be a very boring place.

And it is lovely to see us all discuss things like mature adults w/o hitting below the belt.

Carry on.....................this is an interesting thread!!!


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## lainey

> Exposure is all about time and levels. You could briefly be exposed to a large amount of something toxic and be fine. You could then be exposed to something toxic in a much smaller quantity over a long period and develop problems.
> 
> A perfect example is radiation; we all get it. Being outside in the sun, standing in front of the microwave, getting X-rays at the hospital, or flying in an airplane at 30,000 feet. But when you are outside constantly in the blistering sun, or assembling & testing microwaves in a factory, working in an imaging lab, or flying the friendly skies as a flight attendant, your overall exposure has increased exponentially.


The 2011 earthquake and Japan and subsequent troubles with the nuclear reactors are providing us with some real time data on this. Many times, exposure levels are arbitrary--based on studies in animals, or incidental evidence from humans that we use in math models to extrapolate out acceptable levels of exposure.

In the instance of that event, research will be able to follow workers who have had measurable exposure so that they can learn more about what we really can "tolerate".

Our knowledge is always shifting in that regard. The effects of environmental exposure can be difficult to assess--the human genome is very complex, and not all changes affect all people.


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## CA-Lynn

Lainey wrote: "The effects of environmental exposure can be difficult to assess--the human genome is very complex, and not all changes affect all people."

Isn't that the truth?

Along those lines: why does one drug work for one patient and not for another?


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## piggley

CA-Lynn said:


> Lainey wrote: "The effects of environmental exposure can be difficult to assess--the human genome is very complex, and not all changes affect all people."
> 
> Isn't that the truth?
> 
> Along those lines: why does one drug work for one patient and not for another?


Probable there would be a few reasons, its been found that 
everybody is slightly different genetically, even closely related people, so the research says,
Saw a list once where it showed how many people are hospitalised from side effects of prescribed drugs, a huge number, sadly.

I think too the Drs prescribe drugs without bothering to get to the source of the problem.
Many are poor diagnosticians and really cant be bothered digging furthur, apart from that there is the mental block many have about looking for anything else-such as food allergies or enviromental stressors that the patient might have going on,

I remember reading about a poor Woman who was really sick while going to a naturapathic Dr, who was right into prescribing masses of juiced vegatables, wholegrains, fruit ect-the usual diet people think of as the path to health.
Instead of getting well she was getting sicker- bloodshot eyes, rashes, she ached in every joint. what eventuated was that it turned out she was very sensitive to Salicilates- and she was eating all the high Salicilate foods which her body hated.
As she started eating a diet restricted in these her health bounced back to normal.
i dont know how many people are affected by food allergies and additives, albeit unsuspected, but I'm betting there are many,.


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## babyrex

bigfoot said:


> Interesting thread, thanks for starting it! I just had this discussion with my acupuncturist the other day. It was something I had never really thought of until then. His take on it was that the mercury accumulates in the body, which has trouble getting rid of it, and that things like the thyroid have an affinity for it. This mercury would then block the thyroid receptor sites and... well, we all know how _that_ goes.
> 
> While I'm not going to completely jump on the bandwagon, I have to admit it does make you think about things. Exposure is all about time and levels. You could briefly be exposed to a large amount of something toxic and be fine. You could then be exposed to something toxic in a much smaller quantity over a long period and develop problems.
> 
> A perfect example is radiation; we all get it. Being outside in the sun, standing in front of the microwave, getting X-rays at the hospital, or flying in an airplane at 30,000 feet. But when you are outside constantly in the blistering sun, or assembling & testing microwaves in a factory, working in an imaging lab, or flying the friendly skies as a flight attendant, your overall exposure has increased exponentially.


Good to see you back, bigfoot! You have a way of moderation. I hope all is well with you!


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## Andros

lainey said:


> Yes, unfortunately presentation is subjective and it is not uncommon for people to read things into posts that are not there.


You sure said a mouthful there!!!


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## Swimmer

SJMJuly, so -- how ar eyou now? It's about a year later from this topic... Has anything in your thyroid condition changed or improved?

What is very interesting is that I had a silver filling done the Monday before my Wednesday bloodtest that indicated a very high TSH.

Without any medicine, after nearly one month of resting, my numbers settled themself WAY down... from a TSH of 9.7 to a TSH of 5.9...

I was definitely having a thyroid attack and a hyperemic thyroid... But I'm wondering here what the relationship is...


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## piggley

Hello everyone.

Well all this time on and I have decided have to get my amalgams removed- I have gone from Hypo to Hashis ( or should it be Hashis to Hypo?) my TSH is 14.6 last blood work says and there is inflammation,

The high cost of Dentistry and even worse, fear of absorbing more Mercury by having them removed has prevented me from doing anything about them so far, but I doubt the fillings are helping.-, Dr cant understand why the medication isn't working-she suspects me of not taking the pills-!

Many people say they feel better when they are removed ........in any case.how can Mercury be a positive even if it's not killing your Thyroid.


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## CA-Lynn

I hope sjm~ will chime in.

But here's one of his/her recent posts:

:I know TSH isn't the tell all when dealing with thyroid disease, but I am curious about something: What is it that makes it "swing" all over the place? I can have a test done that reads 1.0, 8 weeks later it's .67, next one is 2.58 and the next one is 4.14. All the time I feel great - even when it's high. I have stablized and I am doing well, but yet my TSH is all over the place. My Frees are low normal (I take Naturethroid) But what makes the TSH act like a crazy person? 
P.S. My antibodies have consistently gone down. Started at 439 and are now in the low 200's.


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## Prolixity2013

CA-Lynn, maybe start a new subject on what you last posted. I have a similar problem.

On the topic, I had 99% of my fillings removed and it did not make a difference for me.

One therapist I saw years ago told me major stressors, i.e. abuse, rape, divorce, financial disasters, surviving a disaster, domestic violence, and childhood abuse, played a more significant role in autoimmune diseases than any other factor.


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## CA-Lynn

I've always believed that this business of removing fillings was wishful thinking.

Still, it would be nice to hear from some people who have had them removed.......and where some time has passed.


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