# Hashimotos hypothyroidism and armour



## arammoth (Mar 17, 2011)

Hi!
I'm on armour med. for hashimotos hypothyroidism. I was switched from synthroid (extreme constipation) to armour. Since I started taking it 7 months ago, I have not been feeling well(feet hurts, hand hurts, hair fall out, feel hot/cold, weight gain). The doc. says I'm on the correct dose at 75mg. I don't think this dose is right. Here is my lab work: TSH -.142(.35-5), FT3-2.9(2.3-4.2), FT4 .83 (.8-1.0).

On 90mg, I became hyper but had the hypo symptoms. Am I on too high of a dose?

Confused! Help!


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## lavender (Jul 13, 2010)

Um, your dose seems dreadfully low to me. Your FT3 and FT4 are at the bottom of their ranges, which could explain all the hypo symptoms. 
For some reason your TSH is not accurately reflecting what is going on with your thyroid. It is low, while your other labs are not high, which they would be if you were truly hyperthyroid. Your doc should be dosing your meds off your FT3 and FT4.

When you said you were hyper, what happened? Did you have labs drawn at that time?


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## arammoth (Mar 17, 2011)

Thanks for the quick response. Yes, I had labs drawn. At 90mg of armour, my lab works were aslo off. These were the figures: TSH-.01 (.34-2); FT4-.73(.59-1.17); Total T3-1.28(.70-1.90); Anti-TPO AB- 8 (0-10). I felt horrible- weight gain, diarrhea, tired and wanting to sleep, extreme lower and upper back ache, and hair falling out. The antibodies are sometime in normal range and other times in high range. Strange!

The endo lowered my dose from 90mg to 75mg. I felt okay for a couple of weeks and then started feeling horrible again. Now, my feet hurts all day long, tired, hair falling out, weight gain, dehydrated and feeling hot at night.
He says 75mg is the correct dose and 90mg is too high and 60mg is too low. I don't know what to make of that. Why is this so complicated for these doctors? They can't find a correct dose for this problem. Please help me!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

arammoth said:


> Hi!
> I'm on armour med. for hashimotos hypothyroidism. I was switched from synthroid (extreme constipation) to armour. Since I started taking it 7 months ago, I have not been feeling well(feet hurts, hand hurts, hair fall out, feel hot/cold, weight gain). The doc. says I'm on the correct dose at 75mg. I don't think this dose is right. Here is my lab work: TSH -.142(.35-5), FT3-2.9(2.3-4.2), FT4 .83 (.8-1.0).
> 
> On 90mg, I became hyper but had the hypo symptoms. Am I on too high of a dose?
> ...


Actually, your FT3 could be a bit higher as it is below mid-range and ideally should be above the mid-range of the range given by your lab. (3.2) Most of us feel best @ 75% of the range.

Are you on the name brand Armour by Forest Pharmaceuticals?

How is your ferritin? If low, that could mess up taking any thyroxine or T3 replacement.
Ferritin http://www.thewayup.com/newsletters/081504.htm

And, how do you know you have Hashimoto's?

Your ferritin should be 50 to 100.

Welcome to the board!


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## lavender (Jul 13, 2010)

It looks like your doctor is dosing you off your TSH, not your T3 and T4. In many of us, TSH does not accurately reflect our thyroid situation. Your T3 and T4 are no where near hyper on either dose.

I am still adjusting my own Armour dose, and Andros has been doing this a lot longer than I have. Also, my situation is a bit different because I have no thyroid and you are dealing with a thyroid that is probably swinging up and down with the hashi's.

What I do know is that dosing meds on lab work alone does not work. It's important to consider our symptoms. When I read your symptoms on each dose, I see hypothyroidism. The only hyperthyroid symptom you mention is diarrhea when you were on 90 mg. It's my opinion that your dose is to low and was too low at 90.

I would see if your doc is willing to increase your dose gradually, 15 mg at a time, see how you feel and then wait a month to increase again. If you start having heart palpitations, feeling like you can't sleep, having anxiety, those are definite signs that your dose is too high.


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## arammoth (Mar 17, 2011)

Thanks everyone! 
I was on 75mcg of synthroid when I was switched to armour(90mg). My symptoms were a better on synthroid than armour. Was 90mg of armour the correct comparable dose to 75mcg of synthroid?

Also, I am surprised you guys feel the dose is too low. The 2 different endos feel increasing it will not be good for me. These endos are supposed to be highly specialized in this field! I live in orange county, ca. Does anyone know any doc. or endo who can help me out? I would really appreciate it.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

arammoth said:


> Thanks everyone!
> I was on 75mcg of synthroid when I was switched to armour(90mg). My symptoms were a better on synthroid than armour. Was 90mg of armour the correct comparable dose to 75mcg of synthroid?
> 
> Also, I am surprised you guys feel the dose is too low. The 2 different endos feel increasing it will not be good for me. These endos are supposed to be highly specialized in this field! I live in orange county, ca. Does anyone know any doc. or endo who can help me out? I would really appreciate it.


Why then, were you switched to Armour? What did your labs look like while you were on the Synthroid?

Armour is a different med and has to be Rx'd differently because it has T3 in it. For that reason, you no longer need as much T4. There are 38 mcg. of T4 in 60 mgs. of Armour and 9mcg. of T3 in 60 mgs. of Armour.


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## arammoth (Mar 17, 2011)

Hi Andros!

I was constipated, mild neck pain and twinkling sensation in front of my eyes. The doctor thought I maybe allergic and therefore put me on armour.

At 75mcg of synthroid:
TSH-.97 (.34-2)
FT4-.97 (.59-1.17)
TT3-.95 (.70-1.90)
Anti-Tpo B-982 (0-10)

When I was put on 90mg of armour (which he said was a comparable dose to 75mcg of synthroid), my lab numbers were off and Anti-TPO-B became 8 (0-10). WHY?


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

arammoth said:


> Hi Andros!
> 
> I was constipated, mild neck pain and twinkling sensation in front of my eyes. The doctor thought I maybe allergic and therefore put me on armour.
> 
> ...


Interesting, your TSH looks good, your FT4 looks good but the TT3 ( assume that is Total 3, not FREE T3) is in the low range.

Getting those numbers under control, quiets down the antibodies.

How are the symptoms now that you are on Armour? Still constipated? Still neck pain and eye problems?


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## arammoth (Mar 17, 2011)

Constipation, neck pain and eye problem have dissappeared on armour but other problems have emerged-FEET hurts all the time, weight gain, wanting to sleep, and hair loss. Can't figure out what's the right dose?


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## arammoth (Mar 17, 2011)

Hi

It is interesting that all of you feel that my armour dose (of 75mg) is pretty low. I just went to endocrinologist at UCI medical center and he said that I am being overdosed because my TSH is too low. Further, he said that whether I am on synthroid of armour, TSH is the only figures that is important and considered in med adjustment. This is a well known endocrinologist at very good university. I am so CONFUSED! One endo says the dose is fine and another says it's not! I need help. I don't feel good! The endo also said that if my TSH is within normal range and I am not feeling good then it's not my thyroid, it's some other problem. This endo was adamant that I switch back to synthroid.
Can anyone recommend an endo or a doctor in orange county, ca. Thanks.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

arammoth said:


> Hi
> 
> It is interesting that all of you feel that my armour dose (of 75mg) is pretty low. I just went to endocrinologist at UCI medical center and he said that I am being overdosed because my TSH is too low. Further, he said that whether I am on synthroid of armour, TSH is the only figures that is important and considered in med adjustment. This is a well known endocrinologist at very good university. I am so CONFUSED! One endo says the dose is fine and another says it's not! I need help. I don't feel good! The endo also said that if my TSH is within normal range and I am not feeling good then it's not my thyroid, it's some other problem. This endo was adamant that I switch back to synthroid.
> Can anyone recommend an endo or a doctor in orange county, ca. Thanks.


That is a shame. A TSH worshipper will never get you to the euthyroid state (feeling well.) Please read below.

Free T3 etc. 
http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/freet3woliner.htm

Your feet only hurt because you need a titration in your Armour. This should be taking place every 8 weeks until you feel well. If you are in the wrong spot, you will be symptomatic. Titration takes a while; every 8 weeks the patient should get labs (TSH, FREE T4 and FREE T3) and med adjusted accordingly.


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