# New here and a bit confused!



## BuffyFan (May 13, 2011)

Hello everyone! I don't have my lab results from the last time my thyroid levels were checked but I do remember that my tsh levels were high, t3 and t4 were low, vit. d was low as well. I was retested and now my tsh levels are low (.03)(normal range.3-4.2)
t3 is 2.97 (told normal range is 2.3-4.5) and t4 is .54 (normal range .58 1.68)
vit. d is 48.8

just wondering if it's the meds causing the changes?(armour 60 mg or it might be mcg I don't have the bottle in front of me) taken twice a day. or if it could be something else? I've got a doctor appointment later this afternoon> I called this morning to get my results and they want me in today~ so that has me a bit worried...if I just my dosage changed why can't she just do that over the phone??


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

BuffyFan said:


> Hello everyone! I don't have my lab results from the last time my thyroid levels were checked but I do remember that my tsh levels were high, t3 and t4 were low, vit. d was low as well. I was retested and now my tsh levels are low (.03)(normal range.3-4.2)
> t3 is 2.97 (told normal range is 2.3-4.5) and t4 is .54 (normal range .58 1.68)
> vit. d is 48.8
> 
> just wondering if it's the meds causing the changes?(armour 60 mg or it might be mcg I don't have the bottle in front of me) taken twice a day. or if it could be something else? I've got a doctor appointment later this afternoon> I called this morning to get my results and they want me in today~ so that has me a bit worried...if I just my dosage changed why can't she just do that over the phone??


Something does not seem quite right here. How long have you been on the 60 mgs. of Armour? One grain is 60 mg. and that 60 mg. contains 38 mcg. of T4 and 9 mcg. of T3.

With all 3 lab results low like that, it could point to adrenal or pituitary.

Or, you could be severely undermedicated. I do need to know how long you have been on the Armour to consider this.

Your TSH in fact can stay low like that yet you need more Armour to bring up the T4 and the T3.

Try to get your doc to do the FREE T4 and FREE T3 instead of the Totals.

understanding thyroid labs
http://www.amarillomed.com/howto/#Thyroid


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## BuffyFan (May 13, 2011)

thank you so much for replying. I have taken Armour two times a day since the middle of January(2011) free t3(is that the same as reverse t3? that's what the nurse called it) that level is 19 and I was told that normal range is 11-32.

I am still having hypo symptoms though. When I first started armour it all went away except the insomnia and not waking up refreshed when I do sleep...but now, the chills are coming back(usually in the evening) and some tiny muscle cramps...

thanks again and i"m gonna take a look at your understanding thyroid labs link

oh and do you think the t3 is low? the nurse told me it was within normal range?

I forgot to mention that I was tested for adrenal fatigue(spit in a tube 4 times a day) and those results came back very normal.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

BuffyFan said:


> thank you so much for replying. I have taken Armour two times a day since the middle of January(2011) free t3(is that the same as reverse t3? that's what the nurse called it) that level is 19 and I was told that normal range is 11-32.
> 
> I am still having hypo symptoms though. When I first started armour it all went away except the insomnia and not waking up refreshed when I do sleep...but now, the chills are coming back(usually in the evening) and some tiny muscle cramps...
> 
> ...


3.4 would be about mid-range of the range provided by your lab for the FREE T3. Yes, that is low. Most of us need it above the mid-range at about the 75% mark of the range given by your lab. FT3 is your active hormone and you need it to function. It should never be below the mid-range; really!

So..........with the Armour; what are you doing? Taking 2 30 mg. tabs a day or 2 60 mg. tabs a day? If the latter, something else might be going on.

If your reverse T3 (rT3) is high, that is cause for concern.

Here is info on rT3.

http://thyroid-rt3.com/whatis.htm

Interesting that you were tested for the adrenal and I am glad that came back normal.


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## BuffyFan (May 13, 2011)

Hi again, the armours is 60 mg twice a day. I"ll check out the link ,t hanks!!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

BuffyFan said:


> Hi again, the armours is 60 mg twice a day. I"ll check out the link ,t hanks!!


Something is wrong if you are taking 120 mgs. of Armour per day and you have labs like that.

Have you had any antibodies' tests? Do you eat a lot of soy or other goitrogens? Are you taking the supplement L-Carnitine?

How is your ferritin. If in the basement, that would impede the efficacy of your thyroxine replacement.

Ferritin http://www.thewayup.com/newsletters/081504.htm

And, I do wonder about the adrenal test. Maybe the saliva test was not accurate. All things seem to point to adrenals.

This is interesting.

Tissue resistance to thyroid hormone is just what it says it is, there are normal amounts of Free T3 in the blood and yet the body behaves as though it's hypothyroid. This is often caused be Reverse T3 blocking the Receptors on the cells that the T3 should stimulate.

There are causes of this other than RT3 but treating resistant hypothyroid people with Natural Thyroid (Armour Etc) or systhetic T4 leads to large doses being given. This leads to excess levels of Free T4 and that in turn leads to RT3 being produced and resistance building up. The only successful way I have heard of to treat people with other resistance is to use T3 only. I have some other form of resistance as well and had to increase my Armour dose every year until I was up at 12 grains. On T3 I have been on a constant dose for 6 months now, I am stable at last. (updated 10/10)

http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/whatdo.htm


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## BuffyFan (May 13, 2011)

I got a copy of my very first labs(before meds) 
tsh 4.94
t4 .48
t3 2.16

second labs(levothyroxine 75 mcg once daily~told my levels were normal, but there was no relief of symptoms

tsh .33
t4 .99
t3 3.66

iron was checked that time and was 76mcg/dl (range given was 22-156 mcg/dl)

so looking at my labs I just got back, it looks like my levels are all over the place. oh and I did get reverse t3 checked andi t is 19 and the normal range given is (11-32)

I"M curious as to how you can tell that my current labs may point to my adrenals?....I did the "flashlight test" and my pupils do fluctuate, they don't stay constricted with a light shining on them.

on another note, I was wondering if you or anyone else all of a sudden started experience burping after you eat or drink anything? No matter what I eat or drink I will burp while eating, for example I ate two cookies yesterday and burped. eating yogurt and taking acidolpilus pills don't help~and this all started around the time my thyroid problems started. I figured if this has happened to someone and I could at least get a cause(my dr. is stumped) i'd have something to look into

Many thanks Andros and everyone!

ps My doctor checked antibodies this time

thyroglobulin AB .8 units~says weak positive abnormal
microsomal antibody (TPO)~417 iu/ML~says positive abnormal

at the bottome of the lab paper it says deficiency:<20 ng/mL
insufficiency 20-29 ng/mL
optimum level 30-80 ng/mL
possible toxicity > 80 ng/mL

doctor said that this indicates Hashimoto's and wasn't concerned at all.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

BuffyFan said:


> I got a copy of my very first labs(before meds)
> tsh 4.94
> t4 .48
> t3 2.16
> ...


Hi! Could you please fill in the ranges for those labs? Different labs use different ranges. Thanks a bunch!

So, you in fact had a ferritin test?

Why I think adrenals? Because your Thyroxine and Triiodothyronine (Armour) are not working.

It's either because of low ferritin, exhausted adrenals, eating a lot of goitrogens which you did not let me know the answer to that, estrogen dominance is a very strong consideration, generic drug instead of the name brand Armour or non-compliance. (meaning that you take it sometimes and forget to take it other times)

What is your estrogen like? Estrogen dominance can impede the efficacy of taking your Armour as well.

And is your doctor not concerned that you are on 120 mgs. of Armour and the numbers are not moving into place as they should?

I am worried about all this.


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## BuffyFan (May 13, 2011)

Hi, I am sorry I forgot to mention some things. I don't think I eat a l ot of goitrogens the only thing I saw on the lists was peanuts and strawberries which I don't eat all the time.

My iron levels were tested with my second labs and I was told it was in the normal range so there was no suggestion to test again this time

Estrogen dominance? I am not sure? My doctor didn't suggest to be tested for it, I do take birth control~I take it before I go to bed, usually around 10:30 pm
I would take one Armour around 4 am, and the next dose at 1:30

No, my doctor didn't seem worried, just kind of...mystified that the armour isn't getting my numbers where they should be, but she is putting me on 60 mg of Armour once a day now and also Synthroid 75 mcg once a day(however, I'm not sure if I should take them together or synthroid in a.m. and armour in P.m. she said it doesn't matter, I kind of feel that it might.

the reference range given for my first two labs are

free t4 .58-1.64
tsh .30-4.20
free t3 2.30-4.50

ok, here it says when my t3 was 3.66 and then retested it was 2.97(the first two times, the ranges were for 3.66 and 2.97 (normal range 2.30-4.50)

now this time I just got tested and the range for t3 2.16(normal range 2.50-3.90)

ps Armour is the name brand...not using generic! and will not be using generic synthroid


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

BuffyFan said:


> I got a copy of my very first labs(before meds)
> tsh 4.94
> t4 .48
> t3 2.16
> ...


Okay...................................your second labs look good. FT4 and TSH are where you would expect and so is the FT3. FT3 is slightly above the mid-range given by your lab and that is good. Maybe a little tweaking needed but not much and I would wait and see what the next labs say.


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