# Need Others Opinions Please



## elliea (Sep 11, 2009)

I was reading through a forum on another site and found a message asking about T3 being "too hot." The reply was............."just a thought" - "T3 can raise metabolism rather quickly and cause a person to sweat or have hot flashes." I have not read or heard of this.

March of 2008 TSH was 3.84.
In Feburary of this year I had blood test done. 
My TSH came back 5.64 scale 0.34 - 5.60. (blood draw)

So in June I did a "blood spot". By this time I had read enough (it consumed my life) to know what tests I needed. It is a crime I had to tell the Doctor what test I wanted done. All he wanted to do is put me on drugs and I refused, not understanding just what was going on, and all he said that it was my age. Drugs are the very last option for me.

I read books by Mary Shomon's on hypothyroid and Suanne Summers Ageless and Breakthrough, plus much more.

The results came back..... TSH 4.9 scale of 0.5 - 3.0 - Ft4 1.5 scale of 0.7 to 2.5 - Ft3 4.6 scale of 2.5 to 6.50 and TPO 29 scale of 0-150 (70-150 being borderline).

I did do a whole body detox using herbs, lymph drainage message 2X's per week now down to 1X per week and sauna 2X's per week, for about 3 weeks. I also started on Lugol's Iodine, kelp, herbs for the adreanals,(do not recommend all that at once, only by experiance) right after the first test in Feburary.

I had a total hysterectomy in 1994 and never had the "HEAT" or "FLASHES" that I have experianced lately.

I guess what I am trying to figure out is why are my Tf4, Tf3 (Tf3 being on the high side,) and TPO all within range, but my TSH is high. And, of course all this heat....which hits at anytime day or night. I also get this feeling like my heart is raceing and I can hear the beats in my ears. This happens mostely in the mournings when I first wake up and I feel like I am over heating.

Is it the Tf3 or something else? Why would my test come back ok execpt for the TSH? Since about March, I have been on BIO Identical's - triest, progest, tastosterone.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

elliea said:


> I was reading through a forum on another site and found a message asking about T3 being "too hot." The reply was............."just a thought" - "T3 can raise metabolism rather quickly and cause a person to sweat or have hot flashes." I have not read or heard of this.
> 
> March of 2008 TSH was 3.84.
> In Feburary of this year I had blood test done.
> ...


Hi and welcome. I am not sure your FT3 is on the high side as 4 is mid-range and your FT3 is only slightly above that. However, that could be high for you. I must comment that if my TSH was where yours is at, I would be non-functional. We are all so very very different in our indiviual needs, are we not?

My experience with thyroid disease is that my "thermostat" is permanently broken. I am too too hot in the summer and way to cold in the winter no matter what I do. And, I actually take T3 in the form of Armour. It does me no good in the winter; I can promise you that. I am just like an ice cube from the core of me on out.

Sadly, I am not well informed re Bio Identical hormones. I have never taken them and therefore have never shown much interest in learning about them. They could be "suspect" and I surely would discuss this issue with your doctor. Maybe all 3 of them are out of balance? Have you had labs for the above hormones?

By the way, thanks for including the ranges. That was most helpful.

And; I take it that you are not on thyroxine replacement? Do you continue to take the Lugol's and Kelp?


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## elliea (Sep 11, 2009)

Thank you for your input!

I only say that about my Ft3 being on the high side because that is what the nutritionist says.

Yes, I did have my hormones checked - my estradiol was low and you can't take that with out progesterone and my testosteron was low we are in the process of trying to figure out the correct dosage on the bio. I was on the Bio's before and I never had this heat, but I will check further into it.

No, on the thyroxine replacement and yes, on the Lugol's and Kelp. I also was doing an ultra thyroid from New Zealand freezed dried defatted uncut pure and BSF free bovine, ran out of that and haven't decided about doing it again. I am totally against pharm. drugs.

I was doing my mourning basal temp it ranged from a high of 97.83 to a low of 96.52 over the past 2 months. Everyday it is something differant.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

elliea said:


> Thank you for your input!
> 
> I only say that about my Ft3 being on the high side because that is what the nutritionist says.
> 
> ...


After talking to you, I am getting the picture slow but sure. I thought, "Adrenals!" Hah; could be.

Check this out......

http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

Let me know what you think!

I am going off-line now. Maybe we can discuss this further tomorrow.


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## elliea (Sep 11, 2009)

Yes, Adrenals, I agree. I know from reading that if your adrenals are wacked out, (and over the past few years I know mine have been, I am a very high strung worry wort at times.) and you have thyroid issues, you can not get the thyroid back in shape until the adrenals are fixed. AND.........I was taking again herbal adrenals for the past 4 months and just stopped them in the last couple of weeks. I thought by this time they would be doing ok, back in shape, but maybe not.

Thanks for the help, it makes sense it possibly could be the adrenals, as I feel nervous all the time and I hadn't felt that for a while.

Also thanks for the site, went there and read a little will finish later, and hopefully catch up with you tomorrow.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

elliea said:


> Yes, Adrenals, I agree. I know from reading that if your adrenals are wacked out, (and over the past few years I know mine have been, I am a very high strung worry wort at times.) and you have thyroid issues, you can not get the thyroid back in shape until the adrenals are fixed. AND.........I was taking again herbal adrenals for the past 4 months and just stopped them in the last couple of weeks. I thought by this time they would be doing ok, back in shape, but maybe not.
> 
> Thanks for the help, it makes sense it possibly could be the adrenals, as I feel nervous all the time and I hadn't felt that for a while.
> 
> Also thanks for the site, went there and read a little will finish later, and hopefully catch up with you tomorrow.


Good; we can chat later.


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## elliea (Sep 11, 2009)

Andros,
Thank you for the Dr. Rind site. There is so much info there! He really expalines alot. I like the graphs, thyroid scale matrix, adrenal support recommendation sheet, thyroid scale diagram, and the metabolic temp. graph. Have not read all, but it is hard to pull away from reading.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

elliea said:


> Andros,
> Thank you for the Dr. Rind site. There is so much info there! He really expalines alot. I like the graphs, thyroid scale matrix, adrenal support recommendation sheet, thyroid scale diagram, and the metabolic temp. graph. Have not read all, but it is hard to pull away from reading.


You are very welcome. I hope it is helpful to you!!


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## elliea (Sep 11, 2009)

Andros,

It has been since Sept 2009 that i have been on here. Had a whole battery of test done 3 weeks ago and just got the reports. I wanted to share it with you.

RECAP-
March of 2008 TSH was 3.84.(blood draw)

Feburary 2009 
My TSH came back 5.64 scale 0.34 - 5.60. (blood draw)

June 2009 "blood spot
TSH 4.9 scale of 0.5 - 3.0 - 
Ft4 1.5 scale of 0.7 to 2.5 - 
Ft3 4.6 scale of 2.5 to 6.50 
TPO 29 scale of 0-150 (70-150 being borderline).

RESENT- Nov. 2009

T4 total 5.8 scale of 4.5-10.9 ug/dl
T4 Free 0.78 (L) scale of .89 to 1.76 ng/ml
T3 free 3.00 scale of 2.30 to 4.20 pg/ml
T3 Reverse 224 scale of 90-350 pg/ml

Glucose was 102 scale of 65 to 110 mg/dl
Cmp good levels, guess kidney and liver are functioning 
C-Reactive Protein - <5 in a scale of 0-10 mg/L
DHEA Sulfate 118 scale of 13-130 ug/dL
Vitamin D 25 Huydroxy 63.1 scale of 32.0 - 100.0 ng/ml

Cholesterol is high 287 -(0-200)/ Tris 85 (0-150) / D-HDL 78 (H) 40-60) /LDL 192/ VLDL 17/ CHOL/HDL 3.7/ LDL/HDL 2.5 (4.5 - 10.9) Risk Factors - average LDL/HDL 3.22
tot. CHOL/HDL 4.44

A timed Cortisol test doc said was good
HGB A1C 5.8 scale of 3.6 - 6.8 
24 hour Cortisol Urinary Free - Cortisol, F, ug/L,U 4 Range was undefined
Cortisol, F, ug/L, 24 hr. U 11 range 0-50

Estrogens and Progest. were low

At least now i know what i have to work on.

NO DRUGS AT ALL!


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

elliea said:


> Andros,
> 
> It has been since Sept 2009 that i have been on here. Had a whole battery of test done 3 weeks ago and just got the reports. I wanted to share it with you.
> 
> ...


So good to hear from you. Was the November test a fasting test? You could be insulin resistant. Glucose is sort of high in the range. I take cinnamon daily to combat that.

Also, do you take Omega III or VI? If you do, that can raise your total cholesterol reading (these are lipids albeit good ones) and that is not cause for alarm but your doc should know if you take these supplements. I ask because the Triglycerides look good.

I did not see a TSH for the November lab report. Did you not get that?

I seem to feel that something is wrong w/ your thyroid labs. T4 is low; that is your bound and unbound hormone and I do suspect that combined with your very low FREE T4, there is something wrong.

325 would be mid-range on the Free T3 so I don't think that is good either. Seems like you are converting to Rt3 and in abundance, that may not be a good thing.

T3 is around 4 times more biologically active than T4. Reverse T3, on the other hand, is a T3 antagonist. It binds to T3 receptors, which blocks the action of T3.

It is important that the body maintains the delicate balance between T3 and rT3 conversion from T4. If for some reason the balance between T3 and rT3 becomes uneven and rT3 dominates, then symptoms of low thyroid (hypothyroidism) may result even though levels of circulating T4 and T3 may be considered normal thyroid levels.

These under-active thyroid symptoms result from a malfunction of the conversion of T4 into T3 rather than an insufficient production of thyroid hormones.

The rT3 dominance may result from period of prolonged stress, which causes an increase in the production of the hormone, cortisol. Cortisol blocks the conversion of T4 into active T3, which leads to increased production of rT3. Elevated rT3 levels may also inhibit the conversion of T4 into active T3 thus resulting in even higher rT3 levels.

Complete article here and I urge you to read (active T3 means Free T3 in this article.)

http://www.ei-resource.org/articles/related-conditions-articles/do-you-have-normal-thyroid-levels?/

So, what is the plan w/ the estrogen and progesterone? How have you been feeling? Are you symptomatic?


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## elliea (Sep 11, 2009)

Yes, it was fasting. TSH was suppose to be done, i am calling the hospital to see if i can find out what is in my file, i did ask the doc for it, but then again i realaized when i was in his office that he had not even looked at the reports because he had to go and have the girls in the office print off.

yes, on the Omega 3. everyday.

BIO's will be increased.

I have been feeling GREAT! Good energy have been not only doing the lymph massage now every other week but doing accupuncture twice a week and i have felt and seen a difference.

Thank you for your input so quickly. I feel things are better but now reading you reply i will have to do more research. I was happy because to me the numbers were better and my adreanels were in better shape then i thought. I guess back to the drawing board. I wll check out the site you posted.

Not really any symptoms of anything. I guess the biggist thing at this time is so nights i sleep better than others. Also have gained a few pounds. That is about it.

Ellie


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

elliea said:


> Yes, it was fasting. TSH was suppose to be done, i am calling the hospital to see if i can find out what is in my file, i did ask the doc for it, but then again i realaized when i was in his office that he had not even looked at the reports because he had to go and have the girls in the office print off.
> 
> yes, on the Omega 3. everyday.
> 
> ...


Ellie; with info posted re the rT3................this can point to adrenals as well. I believe w/ the massage, acupuncture and other holistic therapies that you could very well have this on the run. It takes time for the adrenals to heal and it also takes time for the rT3 to exit the system. Half life is about 3 hours but if your adrenals are taxed, your metabolic clearance rate could be much longer.

I think you are going great; nothing like taking the bull by the horns. Please stay in touch.


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## elliea (Sep 11, 2009)

I called the Hospital this morning, I wanted to know why my TSH was not included, as I told the doc I wanted that along with the other test. The lab pulled my file and she was looking at the doc's order sheet. She said, well it looks like he ordered it but the way he marked things it is hard to tell. I said the THS "was" suppose to be done. Well the lab said they can still order it so I go in the morning. Doctors drive me crazy, but the only way I can get done what I need (insurance) is to see one.

Now, should I fast or would it not make any differance?

Checked that site out, a lot of info.

I have also decided to add a product called "Kelation Plus +" to my 
pantry of herbs and vitamins. Started it about two weeks ago.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

elliea said:


> I called the Hospital this morning, I wanted to know why my TSH was not included, as I told the doc I wanted that along with the other test. The lab pulled my file and she was looking at the doc's order sheet. She said, well it looks like he ordered it but the way he marked things it is hard to tell. I said the THS "was" suppose to be done. Well the lab said they can still order it so I go in the morning. Doctors drive me crazy, but the only way I can get done what I need (insurance) is to see one.
> 
> Now, should I fast or would it not make any differance?
> 
> ...


It is not necessary to fast for the thyroid panel which of course includes the TSH. Geez!! This is all so amazing what these doctors are doing and/or not doing.

Please let me know.


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## elliea (Sep 11, 2009)

Well Andros, I am not a happy camper this evening. I went this morning 
to get the TSH done. It was *5.64 *again. I do not now what the scale is as I could not get to stop in the Doc's office so I called them and they told me.

I am assuming it was the same scale as in Feburary 2009.

Feburary 2009 
My TSH came back 5.64 scale 0.34 - 5.60. (blood draw)

June 2009 "blood spot
TSH 4.9 scale of 0.5 - 3.0 - 
Ft4 1.5 scale of 0.7 to 2.5 - 
Ft3 4.6 scale of 2.5 to 6.50 
TPO 29 scale of 0-150 (70-150 being borderline).

What are your thoughts??????????????

I did not expect this to come back at 5.64. I have no symptons, even the numness in my wrists and hands are gone have been since I started lymph massage in April, no aches or pains, no neck or shoulder pain, bascially nothing.

Is it the low Estrogens and Progest. or the cortisol or "WHAT"??????????????????


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

elliea said:


> Well Andros, I am not a happy camper this evening. I went this morning
> to get the TSH done. It was *5.64 *again. I do not now what the scale is as I could not get to stop in the Doc's office so I called them and they told me.
> 
> I am assuming it was the same scale as in Feburary 2009.
> ...


That is why I wondered about the TSH. It is not unusual to see such strange labs when the antibodies are on the rampage. I suspect that in addition to TPO, you probably have TSI (thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin) and TBII (thyroid binding inhibitory immunoglobulins.)

I admire your tenacity re the alternative medicine but I fear they are only serving to mask the symptoms.

As you already know, I am not well informed on these other hormones nor would I personally take them.

Maybe someone else here can help you with that part.

I share your angst and dissapointment. Sending hugs,


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