# Aha! Estrogen, Cortisol and Thyroid - Help me see the connection!



## angiedmfan (Jul 12, 2015)

Ok, I had an Aha! moment this morning. I have been experiencing joint pain and muscle weakness for about 2 months now. I have suspected for about 10 years that I have borderline hypothyroid issues, because of my myriad of symptoms and my family history (Mom and both sisters were medicated for thyroid) but my lab values were never concerning, until now. My last TSH was 2.49 (.40-4.5), my highest ever, and my last T4free was .9 (.8 - 2.2). I am waiting on result of a re-test of my T4free. I definitely have lots of hypothyroid symptoms and have for years, but have just put up with it chalking it up to getting older. But the muscle weakness scared me, so I went to the doctor. I have been to 4 doctors now, the last being a Rheumatologist. The Endo said I was "normal", the Rheumatologist is testing for RA, Lupus, and other indicators of muscle disease. I have been tested before for RA, Lyme, and Lupus, about 7 years ago all negative, so I am thinking this will not be the cause

So here is where my Aha! moment happened. I came down with a yeast infection. Since I am allergic to a component of all over the counter yeast infection remedies, I thought I would try my estrogen cream (prescribed for peri-menopausal issues) to see if it would help with the yeast infection symptoms. That evening, I felt more normal than I had for two months! Then I realized that two months ago, I stopped using the estrogen crème because it was causing cramping and spotting which my doctor said was indicative of too much estrogen. So is it a coincidence that the joint pain/muscle weakness started when I stopped the estrogen crème? I don't think so. So I started to look up connections between estrogen and joint pain. An article I read said that estrogen can help joint pain, and low estrogen can cause joint pain.

Through this process, I did uncover something else interesting (other than borderline hypothyroid values) and that was that my Cortisol is very high, and DHEA is pretty low. (Not sure why, though, other than I take inhaled steroids for asthma) Cortisol AM 21.2 (4.0 - 22.0) DHEA Sulfate 53 (19-231). So I read about the connection between high cortisol and thyroid. Apparently, high cortisol inhibits conversion of T4 to T3, and increases your RT3 level&#8230;. therefore, causing hypothyroidism, even in people who were "normal" or even controlled on Thyroid meds. Then I also read that estrogen dominance has the same effect on thyroid levels, lowering them.

So, I think somehow I have gotten my estrogen/cortisol/thyroid levels all messed up because of the estrogen crème. I suspect there is some kind of interaction between the high cortisol, the low estrogen, and lowest ever thyroid values. And I am trying to figure out how to fix all this. Any ideas?


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## Octavia (Aug 1, 2011)

I don't know enough about estrogen or cortisol to give you an answer, but I, too, would be suspecting some sort of interaction.

On a side note, I'm really glad you posted about this. About 5 months ago, my gynecologist started me on the Depo-Provera shot (at my request) because ever since I had my thyroid removed (4+ years ago), I've had a period every 16 to 20 days...and I'd pretty much had enough of that. When I'm on Depo-Provera, I don't get a period (which, to me, is a beautiful thing). BUT I started using estrogen creme a few weeks ago, and now I'm spotting...a really gross spotting if you ask me (maybe it's not really spotting...it's a constant very, very, very light flow, for two solid weeks now). Now that I've read your post, I know there's a connection. Ugh. Now I need to ask my doctor about a different approach.

So yeah, thinking about your post and my post together, I'm even more convinced that there's a connection between the things you're wondering about.


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## angiedmfan (Jul 12, 2015)

Thanks Octavia. Had a SEVERE hypoglycemic attack today (1st one ever) and ended up in the ER. Went to a Minute Clinic practically convulsing, then sweating and chilling, and almost incoherent with sky high blood pressure. They tested my blood sugar and sent me to the ER. I am better now (blood sugar normal again) but I feel like I have a blood sugar hangover. Hypoglycemia, although fairly uncommon (most common in improper use of diabetic medication), can also be caused by endocrine dysfunction. And I think I'm Hypothyroid (and have for YEARS) - which just happens to be one of the endocrine conditions mentioned. Imagine that! And the "normal" lab values for blood sugar is 50-110, and I was practically comatose at a level of 54, so don't give me that "you're within the normal range so you are fine" *^%! that all my doctors have been giving me over the years! UGH!


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

> My last TSH was 2.49 (.40-4.5), my highest ever, and my last T4free was .9 (.8 - 2.2).


How many times have these tests been run on you?

You are really hypo. I lived with a FT-4 this low for some time and had alot of muscle pain.

I'm post menopausal so my estrogen is low and I don't have any more muscle pain now than when I did prior, however when my FT-4 was bottom range I was in constant pain.


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

It is my belief that all 3 are hormones and if one is out of whack; the dominoes tumble. In other words, everything has to be in balance which almost seems to be an impossibility when trying to juggle all 3 hormones into place w/exogenous hormones.

The same thing is true with electrolytes. It is not prudent to just take one.

I personally have always opted out of this sort of medical intervention.

Hugs,


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## angiedmfan (Jul 12, 2015)

I have been monitoring my Thyroid for about 10 years now due to my family history and symptoms. So I have records back to 2008, and have had my thyroid tested twice in the last month. The trend over the last 10 years has been TSH going up, T4 going down, Just what you don't want. Thanks Lovlkn, I thought the pain was probably due to thyroid but getting a doctor to admit that is VERY difficult. Rhuemy I just saw on Friday said muscle pain is not caused by thyroid unless TSH is over 10. You are the second person to tell me that is NOT the case.


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## graves84 (Oct 7, 2013)

I'm wondering about the connection with this and converting t3 and t4. My birth control ortho lo contains it and when I check drug interactions online, ortho lo and Levo are a big one. No Dr has ever noticed this. I wonder if this is why i'm feeling so hypo and not converting properly


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

graves84 said:


> I'm wondering about the connection with this and converting t3 and t4. My birth control ortho lo contains it and when I check drug interactions online, ortho lo and Levo are a big one. No Dr has ever noticed this. I wonder if this is why i'm feeling so hypo and not converting properly


Alot of people who take thyroid replacement also take birth control pills. The key is to take them at least 4 hours apart. You may have some interaction with the birth control and the thyroid replacement but if you are consistent when you take both of your medications then your labs will be where they will be.

Alot of people do not properly convert - I'm not sure if it's hormone related or just part of taking synthetic hormone.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

angiedmfan said:


> I have been monitoring my Thyroid for about 10 years now due to my family history and symptoms. So I have records back to 2008, and have had my thyroid tested twice in the last month. The trend over the last 10 years has been TSH going up, T4 going down, Just what you don't want. Thanks Lovlkn, I thought the pain was probably due to thyroid but getting a doctor to admit that is VERY difficult. Rhuemy I just saw on Friday said muscle pain is not caused by thyroid unless TSH is over 10. You are the second person to tell me that is NOT the case.


I encourage you to keep looking for a doctor who understands thyroid hormone replacement -

Your labs are hypo and they can look and look for a solution to your symptoms but until they address your Low FT-4 and probably low FT-3 , you will not feel well.


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## angiedmfan (Jul 12, 2015)

Finally got a referral to an endo that was recommended to be good. Literally had to beg for it. First endo said i was normal and sent me home. Also going today to a different family doctor. He was actually the one who tried me on synthroid back in 2008. (an endo took me off) He has done great with another colleague. He takes a more holistic approach and utilzes natural remedies as well when appropriate. I like the sound of that. Wish me luck! Oh BTW I had a severe hypoglycemic attack about a week ago. Always had tendencies but never a crisis. Still not completely normal. Ugh.


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## Lovlkn (Dec 20, 2009)

I've never had much luck with endo's as far as thyroid replacement - then tend to live and die by TSH only.

Be firm - take a lab listing sheet with ranges with you and insist they take into consideration your FT-4 and FT-3 labs.


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## angiedmfan (Jul 12, 2015)

Finally found a doctor who is willing to help. He was recommended by a colleague, and turns out he's the one who originally tried me on thyroid medicine back in 2008. Then an endo then took me off, imagine that. He is running tons of blood tests, and is doing a sonogram of my thyroid (tomorrow). Finally someone who really wants to figure this out. Pretty sure our answer will lie is some kind of endocrine imbalance, either thyroid, adrenal, pancreas, pituitary, something like that, or even estrogen/progesterone. I am just hopeful that finally someone is willing to do the work to figure it out. Over this past month, I have just been feeling like I'm getting 15 minutes of these doctor's time, and then being sent on my way, still having no answers. He has already requested to see me again, so we can talk more about my symptoms and put together the pieces of the puzzle. Apparently he recognizes that 15 minutes doesn't cut it. FINALLY!!! Wish me luck, I can finally be hopeful for a solution.


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