# Joint



## hypocrazy (Jun 30, 2013)

I have had some serious joint pain


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## CA-Lynn (Apr 29, 2010)

And maybe it's NOT the result of the drug.


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## hypocrazy (Jun 30, 2013)

I have been tested for lymes, lupus, just about everything under the sun. I am 23 years old I do not have arthritis and I have had X-rays of my knees. I am a runner, but that would not explain the joint pain I get in my wrists as well.


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## StormFinch (Nov 16, 2012)

Have you had your D and ferritin checked as well?

I guess it's always a possibility since I personally ache like I have the flu on synthetics. I finally gave up and went on Armour since the pharmacies here don't carry anything else. Heaven help me if Armour ever goes through another shortage! lol


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## Desertrose (Jul 30, 2013)

I know the thought sucks, but have you tried a gluten free diet? I'm still a bit skeptical, but I'm trying it. My 17 year old daughter has been told she has sero negative arthritis. In other words...." we don't know why you have joint pain but we'll send you home on heavy duty pain meds, come back and see us when your symptoms flare again." Not good enough! 
Of her own accord she has been experimenting with going gluten free and it appears to be significant.


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## hypocrazy (Jun 30, 2013)

Desertrose - interesting that you bring that up. I am actually re trying a gluten free diet. I tried once and it actually helped a lot with a lot of the symptoms, but then I went in vacation....and we'll who can pass up ice cream comes and French fries! But yes I am back at it again, hoping to see some results. Just wish I had more ideas for meals that are gluten free. It's a difficult thing to do!


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## hashimotocoaster (Mar 22, 2013)

Since joint pain is a symptom of hypothyroidism, I'm wondering if it's THAT and not the levothyroxine. Are you on the right dose? My joint pain gets worse as my TSH rises. When I first started Synthroid, my joint pain really improved, but as my thyroid fluctuates, it comes back. Something to consider.


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## Desertrose (Jul 30, 2013)

I know, it does seem like such a pain to have to have to change the way you cook, and eating out is even more complicated, though it does seem that there are many more gluten free options out there these days. (though vacations? Yeah, I'd be using those as my tester to the theory.  My time to cheat and see if the gluten thing really IS a factor.)

I have also heard that when you start on levothyroxine that it's like taking one step forward, two steps back, as your body adjusts to the medication. This is because the drug alters the levels of what your BODY is still producing in the way of it's own thyroid hormone (this is in the case of someone who still has a partially functioning thyroid gland.) It can take a long time for the total sum of both the chemical thyroxine, plus your own natural thyroid hormone to strike the optimum balance.
I think this must be true because presently, after only a few weeks of being on the medication I am now feeling joint pain that initially went away.

Fish oil is supposed to be beneficial for joint pain?
I might go back on those supplements myself to see if it helps.


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## hypocrazy (Jun 30, 2013)

hashimotocoaster said:


> Since joint pain is a symptom of hypothyroidism, I'm wondering if it's THAT and not the levothyroxine. Are you on the right dose? My joint pain gets worse as my TSH rises. When I first started Synthroid, my joint pain really improved, but as my thyroid fluctuates, it comes back. Something to consider.


You could be right. But I have been tested 2 times since may and both times my labs were "fine" (don't you love that). I have been on levo for a year and a half now. It's amazing how many new problems have risen...and how I still often feel cruddy. But according to the doctor it's all in my head....also I am on 50mcg and my TSH is about 1.6 if I remember


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## Andros (Aug 26, 2009)

hypocrazy said:


> I have been tested for lymes, lupus, just about everything under the sun. I am 23 years old I do not have arthritis and I have had X-rays of my knees. I am a runner, but that would not explain the joint pain I get in my wrists as well.


Are you sure it is joint pain? Could it be tendonitis? Have you taken any Quinalone antibiotics, anti-depressants or statins that could deplete your CoQ10 thus causing tendonitis?

Have you considered myopathy from hypo which won't go away until you are optimal?

Myopathy from hypo
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1010480/

peripheral neuropathy
http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/peripheralneuropathy/detail_peripheralneuropathy.htm

What test was run for Lupus?


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## bigfoot (May 13, 2011)

hypocrazy said:


> Desertrose - interesting that you bring that up. I am actually re trying a gluten free diet. I tried once and it actually helped a lot with a lot of the symptoms, but then I went in vacation....and we'll who can pass up ice cream comes and French fries! But yes I am back at it again, hoping to see some results. Just wish I had more ideas for meals that are gluten free. It's a difficult thing to do!


You probably already figured this out, but there is no 'part-time' gluten free. _Either you go totally GF, or else you don't._ Gluten can stick around for days and weeks in your body, and helps drive inflammation. Sad to say this, because I love french fries, burgers, pizza, etc. (Geez, doesn't that sound like the picture of health...) Personally, I went gluten-free last year after saliva testing said I had a really bad gluten sensitivity, but was tested negative for Celiac. Also, I improved my diet and we try to follow so-called "Paleo" for meals (more of a lifestyle than a diet).

I suffered with bad joint pain, aches, and creaks & cracks over the last few years. Yet my RA Factor was negative, a rheumatologist wanted nothing to do with me, and many other tests were fine. Here's what I discovered:

* Tried to optimize my FT3/FT4 levels (an ongoing journey). Thyroid affects joints, too.
* My doc switched me to Nature-Throid (similar to Armour, but fewer fillers.)
* Gluten-free diet, and tried to reduce carbs & sugars, and processed foods.
* Fats can be good for you. A little bacon is actually healthy. You need fats, as they are the precursors to many hormones.
* My testosterone was low -- began HRT and trying to optimize it (another ongoing journey).
* Tested for & supplemented low vitamins/minerals with help of an ND.

After doing these things, I have noticed that my joint problems have diminished probably 90-95%. It took me a good 3-4 weeks after going gluten-free to really notice a difference. And not just in the joints, but in brain fog, energy, etc. I was very close to throwing in the towel, but stuck it out, and am glad I did. It's not a cure-all by any means, but it can help your body significantly if you are afflicted with it. The side-benefit is that if your thyroid issues are being caused partly by inflammation (such as Hashi's), this will likely help there, too.

There are a million cookbooks, blogs, web pages, and recipes out there for GF (and also Paleo). Even Facebook has quite a few posters and followers. Many stores are starting to have portions of aisles devoted to GF foods. Everything from crackers to mac 'n' cheese to frozen waffles. (FYI: The texture of GF breads is much, much better when toasted.) Trust me, if I can do it, you can do it!

hugs6

If you want to get tested for Celiac and gluten sensitivity (not the same test), don't stop eating gluten yet until you are tested. Otherwise that will skew the results.


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## Desertrose (Jul 30, 2013)

Yes, I DO realise that going gluten free is something that once established is a factor, is something you have to stick to. 
I'm not even ASKING my doctor about diet, or gluten sensitivity tests because I just know from experience that he, along with every single doctor I have seen here in Australia completely disregards diet as a factor (amazing hey.) 
I have very little faith left in them to be honest.
So I'm experimenting myself by going gluten free for a period of time and then I will reintroduce some gluten to see if there is any impact on how I feel.
I've also read that if you're gluten sensitive you are "probably" sensitive to dairy also, although there again this seems to be an individual thing and certain foods might be tolerated in some but not in others.

I have to wonder whether the extremes of certain individuals sensitivities depends on how much gut health has been compromised?
So I plan by process of elimination (I've started a food diary) to find out exactly which foods seem to make a difference.
They say for some that oats are included in the list of grains to avoid, yet other information says some people can tolerate it.


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## bigfoot (May 13, 2011)

Just like the old adage, "You are what you eat." 

You are right about dairy -- and I seem to be sensitive to that (but always was to an extent). And oats -- I was told that some gluten-free oats can be okay, but there is a theory that oats of any sort (since they're a grain) can contribute to Hashi's / autoimmune. Which is too bad, because oats are generally thought to be anti-inflammatory. Maybe just not in folks with Hashi's, I dunno.

The idea to do a food diary is awesome! Sorry to hear about your doctor experiences there in Australia. Unfortunately, I think that is the norm across many countries, from what I've seen posters here talk about. Many are more concerned about throwing RXs at problems, instead of addressing the root issues.


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## Desertrose (Jul 30, 2013)

You are what you eat. So VERY true!

Oh well, all we can do is try different things I guess and hope that one day some sense will come of all this trial and error. 
Unless of course you come across a doctor willing to treat the WHOLE body instead of dissecting us all into different organs. 
I will keep up my search for one of those.
I'm sure they must exist somewhere!


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## bigfoot (May 13, 2011)

Yeah, I can't say I envy doctors. What a very tough job to be in right now. Sure, there are some that shouldn't be practicing, but the majority are good, knowledgeable people who genuinely want to help. The problem is that the system is broken. They are being pulled in a million directions at once. Drug companies, insurance companies, government regulations, malpractice, medical review boards, computerized record-keeping, etc. Kind of leaves patients at the end of the line. And sadly, I don't think socialized medicine is the answer, although we are swinging that direction here in the U.S. I'm afraid for the folks here on the forums, because this means less advocacy and more red tape. Just like we are all our own independent case that should be considered on its own, a one-size-fit-all approach doesn't work. I have to chuckle at the folks who want additional government oversight and regulation involved in their health care. After all, how long was the line and how good was the service the last time you were at the post office, DMV, or VA? But I digress... 

Anyway, I don't know what the playing field looks like there in Australia, but you might investigate if there are naturopath doctors and what their scope of practice is. Can they order tests, write prescriptions, and diagnose conditions?


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## Ana78 (Aug 8, 2013)

I tried levo twice with time between two trials and had to switch to Armour. Levo almost killed me.


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## I DClaire (Jul 31, 2011)

Ana78 said:


> I tried levo twice with time between two trials and had to switch to Armour. Levo almost killed me.


Armour almost killed me! :anim_63: The only reason I'm laughing is after two horrible experiences that sent me to the ER and then resulted in hospitalization, the realization that the problems almost definitely stemmed from my own reaction to Armour now _ALMOST_ seems funny.

Because I seemed to start having so much bone and joint pain after going back on Synthroid several months ago, I honestly suspected a tweak here or there in dosage might help. Then I began taking fish oil with CoQ10 and that seemed to help for awhile. Then I asked my endocrinologist if the Synthroid could be involved and she said MAYBE...to wait a couple of months more and see.

That couple of months expired last month and I knew my legs were getting worse...but, as we all attempt to do, I tried to trudge on until last week when I mentioned how my legs hurt to a cardiologist and he swiftly made arrangements for me to see an orthopedic specialist. It didn't take 20 minutes for him to tell me I have no cartilage in either knee!

At 67, I knew I had bad knees - I didn't know how bad! You're probably too young for something like that but when I asked if there was anything I could try to buy some time before knee replacement surgery, the doctor gave me cortisone shots in both knees. I can honestly say there was very little discomfort with the shots and I seem to be getting substantial pain relief. You might try that - the doctor said the cortisone will help heal the inflammation. I've also got a prescription for Ultram but have only taken one in almost a week.


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